Animation cancelling is killing PVP, especially for Oceanics

Ezareth

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

Manami

Ezareth wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

"Animation canceling gives unfair advantages to people who macro."
- This is a legitimate concern, though I'm not certain how prevalent macroing actually is in this game. None of the top PVPers I play with actually use macros. I don't think that it's as big of an issue as people make it seem. Most times I hear accusations of "macro!!!!" it's when someone deludes himself that his unfortunate demise was out of his control, as his opponent cheated. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Even IF there are players with no actual mastery of animation canceling who employ the use of macros, why is that stopping YOU from improving on an individual level?

In my long history of PvP with and against the top players in the game I have *yet* to hear of a single player using a "Macro" in PvP. It's just a go-to excuse for people dying for (reasons). I animation cancel less than most players, usually block-cancelling abilities or Bash-cancelling weapon attacks on my NB. Beyond that I've never bothered to animation cancel anything and I have no issues being successful in PvP.

This whole thread needs to go back to the grave from which it was ressurected.

Yet if they removed Animation Canceling, you wouldn't be anything and like all the others be dead in the water for actually skilled players.

Deheart

Animation Canceling... an exploit that ZOS said *** it to fixing and told everyone that it was now a feature.

Now that controller support is coming, maybee Ill be able to actually learn how to use animation canceling, as I suck at keyboard gaming.

ToRelax

Alexandrious wrote: »

[...]
Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

So, if I flat out admit I am using macros, I am not a "top pvp buddy", but if I don't I am just boasting stupidly, because the "top pvp buddies" use macros. GG

blur

Whining thread posted during 1.6 (June). Newbie decides to necro thread and give his 2 cents. 2 pages now with people arguing with posts that are months old outdated (pre patch) and irrelevant. Good job.

CtrlAltDlt

Wow... I though I had seen it all. From nerf this to nerd that but this?? It's one of the best things in this game, it requires skill to pull it off flawlessly and fyi this isn't the first game that has this 'concept'. I come from an MMO called Knight Online whose main focus is open world pvp and the combat revolves around animation canceling and often is the deciding factor your success in pvp.

Whether you want to see it as a 'broken' game mechanic or not is up to you but it adds another dimension to combat and player skill.

Ezareth

Manami wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

"Animation canceling gives unfair advantages to people who macro."
- This is a legitimate concern, though I'm not certain how prevalent macroing actually is in this game. None of the top PVPers I play with actually use macros. I don't think that it's as big of an issue as people make it seem. Most times I hear accusations of "macro!!!!" it's when someone deludes himself that his unfortunate demise was out of his control, as his opponent cheated. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Even IF there are players with no actual mastery of animation canceling who employ the use of macros, why is that stopping YOU from improving on an individual level?

In my long history of PvP with and against the top players in the game I have *yet* to hear of a single player using a "Macro" in PvP. It's just a go-to excuse for people dying for (reasons). I animation cancel less than most players, usually block-cancelling abilities or Bash-cancelling weapon attacks on my NB. Beyond that I've never bothered to animation cancel anything and I have no issues being successful in PvP.

This whole thread needs to go back to the grave from which it was ressurected.

Yet if they removed Animation Canceling, you wouldn't be anything and like all the others be dead in the water for actually skilled players.

Except myself as well as others like @Araxleon don't even animation cancel our attacks. The only attack I animation cancel is Deep slash. It's a minor benefit at most. I mainly animation cancel *animations* with a block in order to hide the animation. People who think animation cancelling is some huge benefit are just looking for another excuse as to why they lost. It it is a *slight* tweak in most cases and it isn't the reason a single player was able to mop up your 5-man.

usmcjdking

Animation cancelling is a stupid mechanic. The idea that I'm being hit by a telegraphed blow without even visually seeing it despite staring at the offender is laughably bad.

The damage instance simply needs to be tied to the ending animation frames.

ToRelax

usmcjdking wrote: »

Animation cancelling is a stupid mechanic. The idea that I'm being hit by a telegraphed blow without even visually seeing it despite staring at the offender is laughably bad.

The damage instance simply needs to be tied to the ending animation frames.

You know that this would actually require to balance animation times, right? They are already overstrained with what they have.

Also, it would look pretty stupid when the damage happens only after your charakter returned into his standard position, or the projectile start flying then.

BOLTERITY

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

r u asking if i macro, loool xD ?? hahaha xD

Araxleon

Ezareth wrote: »

Manami wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yiko wrote: »

"Animation canceling gives unfair advantages to people who macro."
- This is a legitimate concern, though I'm not certain how prevalent macroing actually is in this game. None of the top PVPers I play with actually use macros. I don't think that it's as big of an issue as people make it seem. Most times I hear accusations of "macro!!!!" it's when someone deludes himself that his unfortunate demise was out of his control, as his opponent cheated. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Even IF there are players with no actual mastery of animation canceling who employ the use of macros, why is that stopping YOU from improving on an individual level?

In my long history of PvP with and against the top players in the game I have *yet* to hear of a single player using a "Macro" in PvP. It's just a go-to excuse for people dying for (reasons). I animation cancel less than most players, usually block-cancelling abilities or Bash-cancelling weapon attacks on my NB. Beyond that I've never bothered to animation cancel anything and I have no issues being successful in PvP.

This whole thread needs to go back to the grave from which it was ressurected.

Yet if they removed Animation Canceling, you wouldn't be anything and like all the others be dead in the water for actually skilled players.

Except myself as well as others like @Araxleon don't even animation cancel our attacks. The only attack I animation cancel is Deep slash. It's a minor benefit at most. I mainly animation cancel *animations* with a block in order to hide the animation. People who think animation cancelling is some huge benefit are just looking for another excuse as to why they lost. It it is a *slight* tweak in most cases and it isn't the reason a single player was able to mop up your 5-man.

XD PVP is a very unpredictable environment lots of things can happen and animation canceling can cause a waste of resources to increase DPS which isnt always worth it.

Prabooo

Sharee wrote: »

Wrecking blow->surprise attack->soul harvest (and other combos like that which can deal full HP bar of damage within 0.3 seconds) are too powerful for a 1-button-push attack.

Learn to block, bash and dodge. All spells are counteractable, you just gotta L2P

xarguideb17_ESO

It was stated here before, but some have trouble understanding. Animation cancelling is an exploit, because it was not intended in the first place, it is bad developing and sloppy testing. It looks illogical, unrealistic and stupid. It provokes macroing, which ZOS says is illegal.
Man up ZOS. Fix your mistake.

Wollust

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

It was stated here before, but some have trouble understanding. Animation cancelling is an exploit, because it was not intended in the first place, it is bad developing and sloppy testing. It looks illogical, unrealistic and stupid. It provokes macroing, which ZOS says is illegal.
Man up ZOS. Fix you mistake.

Well ZoS said it's intended. But not everyone can be such a special snowflake like you that can't be fooled by the big bad company and its working together with those bad players exploiting it just to ruin your fun.

Jade1986

Wollust wrote: »

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

It was stated here before, but some have trouble understanding. Animation cancelling is an exploit, because it was not intended in the first place, it is bad developing and sloppy testing. It looks illogical, unrealistic and stupid. It provokes macroing, which ZOS says is illegal.
Man up ZOS. Fix you mistake.

Well ZoS said it's intended. But not everyone can be such a special snowflake like you that can't be fooled by the big bad company and its working together with those bad players exploiting it just to ruin your fun.

If it was intended there would be a tutorial just like every other mechanic in the game has. They stated first that it wasn't intended and only said it was intended from what I gather after they couldn't figure out how to fix it. It is just a matter of time before they fix it and say it wasn't intended again.

Asmael

Unintended at first, yet an accepted mechanic currently.



It doesn't take much, if anything, this is an interesting mechanic that makes it harder than simply pushing 1 of the 5 skills at a time.

Per definition, it is not an exploit.

Using macros is, however, an abuse and should be dealt with accordingly.

xarguideb17_ESO

Wollust wrote: »

xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »

It was stated here before, but some have trouble understanding. Animation cancelling is an exploit, because it was not intended in the first place, it is bad developing and sloppy testing. It looks illogical, unrealistic and stupid. It provokes macroing, which ZOS says is illegal.
Man up ZOS. Fix you mistake.

Well ZoS said it's intended. But not everyone can be such a special snowflake like you that can't be fooled by the big bad company and its working together with those bad players exploiting it just to ruin your fun.

That's right. ZOS only fools himself and sarcastic nincompoops like you, when they don't fix this.
I use it and hate using it. It makes PVP unfair and too easy against people who do not use AC. Free kills. Instagib. God mode.
Why the hell should I be able to do 4 attacks, including an ultimate, in one global cooldown when my character only seems to twitch a bit? Stupid, I tell you. Stupid.
Turns out that you need to do AC even in PVE if you want to do the endgame content and don't have a whole lot of CP.
This drives players away for many reasons already stated in this thread.

Jade1986

Asmael wrote: »

Unintended at first, yet an accepted mechanic currently.



It doesn't take much, if anything, this is an interesting mechanic that makes it harder than simply pushing 1 of the 5 skills at a time.

Per definition, it is not an exploit.

Using macros is, however, an abuse and should be dealt with accordingly.

With that quote I am pretty sure they are working on fixing it, because that was by no means an admission to "We meant for that to happen , and it is an acceptable playstyle". Clearly it was an oversight that they are working on.

Carl-lan

I don't know what I'm doing in the PvP area.

I went into some castle somewhere where lots of people were fighting. I tried to help my fellow alliance out. I swung my sword like a mad pirate, then, suddenly, I just died. I don't know how, or why. I just... died. I was sad.

Then... some guy told me that I did not deserver to be bought back to life because I got 'dropped' so easily. I laughed, because he was so very seriously angry at me. I'm not quite sure why he was so angry at me? I have never met him before. I think he must take this game very seriously. Perhaps too seriously. I asked him, 'Why are you so angry?' as I continued to laugh, but as I did not have my headset on, he did no hear me... laughing at his anger.

When I was bought back to life eventually, I then exited the PvP area and went back to doing quests and researching weapon traits. I have since never travelled to Cyridill. I plan to live the rest of my days out as a lonely adventurer of the land, collecting all kinds of flowers and dancing to Malukah.

No animation cancelling for me my friends. In fact, I don't even know what anyone is talking about. What the hell is animation cancelling? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?

FENGRUSH

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Stikato

TBH, it is not that hard to learn to light attack cancel into certain abilities, and this is more than enough to be competitive.

People would be better served spending their time practicing a light attack weave than complaining here.

Personally, I'd rather their was no AC. I think there is plenty of skill in knowing when to engage, using terrain, movement, etc. But it's not going to change. So just get with the program.

Spoiler:

Just left click the damn mouse a fraction of a sec before pressing the skill button.

Alexandrious

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Yes im very aware of it, what im also very aware of is me a heavily nerfed DK with only two class skills on my bars and only 40 CP, VR9, and no passive points yet into my 2H skill tree, dueling and destroying a VR16 300+ CP Templar and I had no stamina problems, didnt even had a stam drink up, yet thanks to the macros I was trying out to record to my gaming community what to expect to happen if they all decide to give ESO a second shot. But because of those macros, shield blocking stamina loss did not matter, period.

I used a combination of Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Weapon swap to cancel Flame, Heavy Hold Down Weave into Wrecking Blow which I learned from someone on this forum, and kept her on the defensive making her waste magicka by keeping Igneous up and using Rally/Vigor to keep my health topped, would Petrify, yes, petrify, I havent even MORPHED that yet to Fossilize, keeping her locked down whenever I needed to get back resources since she kept roll dodging around like an idiot to avoid my WB Feints. Its pretty funny how much people will dodge or even block when they see WB coming, only for me to cancel it and they waste Stamina. Decided after a petrify she was low and used Spammed Heavy to WB then 0.100 second light to Executioner, finishing with a Dawnbreaker.

Stop defending a exploit. If anyone is a farce its you. Enjoy the new 501CP cap btw. Next best thing to happen to ESO will be the removal of Animation Cancelling, I bet thats gonna come next.

alakmir

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Animation Cancelling isn't really an issue as long as you understand the mechanics behind it, and I say this even with my average ping of round 400 (I live in Singapore). Thing is, even without Animation Canceling, you are still going to die before you can react with such a high ping, as even if people can't weave in Light attacks, that 10k damage Surprise Attack is still going to tear through your health, even if you have the best ping in the world. However, damage of certain instant cast skills still work even if you have an insanely high latency. For example, during the many meteor showers that happen on EU-TB, I can spam keep spamming Surprise Attack, on 5 different people, to have seemingly nothing happen, but suddenly 15 seconds later, I get 5 Killing Blows at the same time according to my Kill Counter.

Every action that you take in ESO has a priority. From the lowest to highest priority:
1) Light/Heavy Attack
2) Abilities
3) Ultimates
4) Block
5) Bash/Interrupt

An action of a lower priority can be animation canceled by an action of a higher priority, though they must still respect the GCD (Global Cooldown) between each attack cycle. That means in a single GCD attack cycle, I can get off 1 light attack, 1 Ability, 1 Ultimate and 1 Bash. This is in addition to the fact that for some skills (Gap closers mainly), the GCD of the skill triggers as soon as you press the button, rather when the skill actually connects.

For example, I can cast Ambush from 27m away (Thanks to Reach II passive), and while the 1 second long Teleportation animation is playing, I press Surprise Attack. As the GCD of Ambush begins as soon as I press the button (It still has a 0.5 second cast time, no matter what the tooltip likes to state) and the GCD of all skills is 1.3 seconds, both abilities go off seemingly at the same time. That's round 15-18k Instant Damage off the bat. I then follow up with a light attack on the enemies now fractured armor (What Ambush does is that it teleports you first, then inflicts the damage with a 0.2 sec delay, so there is that window where you are still considered "In sneak" behind the target, so the Surprise Attack gets it's "From Stealth" bonus effect) then I cancel that light attack animation with an another Surprise Attack, which in turn is canceled by Flawless Dawnbreaker. As as result, the follow up burst after the initial combo from sneak has another 15k-20k damage, thereby resulting in an "Instant Kill" from stealth.

Still, the best advice I can really give for high ping players (Like me) is to develop a sort of sixth sense to incoming attacks. This means always staying on your guard, always expecting an attack and listen out for sound cues. The music of ESO changes whenever an enemy has you locked on or has initiated an attack that hasn't actually connected yet. This is your cue to start taking defensive actions against such an attack. One good defensive action a high ping player can utilize is dodgeroll, as the check for dodgeroll takes place clientside, rather then serverside. Which means if lets say someone targets a Snipe at you, you can still dodge it successfully even with high ping as the check to see if you actually get hit by that snipe is client-based, rather then server-based. Also, use and abuse stealth mechanics, as the less time you spend visible, the less chance you have of getting a snipe in your back.

you fake cat .

FENGRUSH

Alexandrious wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Yes im very aware of it, what im also very aware of is me a heavily nerfed DK with only two class skills on my bars and only 40 CP, VR9, and no passive points yet into my 2H skill tree, dueling and destroying a VR16 300+ CP Templar and I had no stamina problems, didnt even had a stam drink up, yet thanks to the macros I was trying out to record to my gaming community what to expect to happen if they all decide to give ESO a second shot. But because of those macros, shield blocking stamina loss did not matter, period.

I used a combination of Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Weapon swap to cancel Flame, Heavy Hold Down Weave into Wrecking Blow which I learned from someone on this forum, and kept her on the defensive making her waste magicka by keeping Igneous up and using Rally/Vigor to keep my health topped, would Petrify, yes, petrify, I havent even MORPHED that yet to Fossilize, keeping her locked down whenever I needed to get back resources since she kept roll dodging around like an idiot to avoid my WB Feints. Its pretty funny how much people will dodge or even block when they see WB coming, only for me to cancel it and they waste Stamina. Decided after a petrify she was low and used Spammed Heavy to WB then 0.100 second light to Executioner, finishing with a Dawnbreaker.

Stop defending a exploit. If anyone is a farce its you. Enjoy the new 501CP cap btw. Next best thing to happen to ESO will be the removal of Animation Cancelling, I bet thats gonna come next.

I guess its good Im pretty much the same CP as the cap I guess.

As far as your silly rant of having an ultra weak character and winning because youre running macros, I cant help but laugh.

Ill slot 90 CP for you and duel your mighty DK if youd like. We can see how well it holds up. The reality is you will get hammered into the ground because you actually believe macros are a thing winning fights.

Fights are won by the player behind the keyboard. I beat plenty of players with over double my cp (1200+ CP). Good luck getting better building a wall of excuses to hide behind. Let me know if you want to take my up on that 1v1, but since Ive dealt with a countless amount of your kind, I will say good fight in advance for dodging the offer.

zornyan

I wouldn't count on it being fixed, ZOS have stated multiple times it can't be fixed. Jesus it would take years of coding and redesigning the combat. Without animation cancelling combat would be dog slow and boring.

Don't forget, that recently ZOS let go of most of the programmers / staff that created the base game, as generally they like most other mmos only need to maintain a smaller section of staff to keep the game running + some dlcs.

Animation cancelling is way way waaaayyy down their list of things to fix, and is something they can't really fix

BOLTERITY

Alexandrious wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Yes im very aware of it, what im also very aware of is me a heavily nerfed DK with only two class skills on my bars and only 40 CP, VR9, and no passive points yet into my 2H skill tree, dueling and destroying a VR16 300+ CP Templar and I had no stamina problems, didnt even had a stam drink up, yet thanks to the macros I was trying out to record to my gaming community what to expect to happen if they all decide to give ESO a second shot. But because of those macros, shield blocking stamina loss did not matter, period.

I used a combination of Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Weapon swap to cancel Flame, Heavy Hold Down Weave into Wrecking Blow which I learned from someone on this forum, and kept her on the defensive making her waste magicka by keeping Igneous up and using Rally/Vigor to keep my health topped, would Petrify, yes, petrify, I havent even MORPHED that yet to Fossilize, keeping her locked down whenever I needed to get back resources since she kept roll dodging around like an idiot to avoid my WB Feints. Its pretty funny how much people will dodge or even block when they see WB coming, only for me to cancel it and they waste Stamina. Decided after a petrify she was low and used Spammed Heavy to WB then 0.100 second light to Executioner, finishing with a Dawnbreaker.

Stop defending a exploit. If anyone is a farce its you. Enjoy the new 501CP cap btw. Next best thing to happen to ESO will be the removal of Animation Cancelling, I bet thats gonna come next.

bro, plz dont waste your time typing and replying or whining or doing all that.... the best u could do for now, is go and level to vr16, make a good decent build, learn it, master it, and rek ***... i do not mean to make fun of ya or anything, but i must tell u a good example of some1 who was kinda similar to u and said stuff like u. Back in 1.6 a DK called "Krotha" used to cry and whine a lot about sorcerers being overpowered, instead of finding a way to counter them. He said that, in 1.7, with the damage nerf and the fixes and so on.... "these damn sorcerers will be forced to play fair, and they wont stand a chance...", or something like that. 1.7 arrived, and he still got reked by the same sorcerers again and again.... and honestly, i dont understand uptill now, why he doese not realize that the problem is in him, in his build or in his preffered style of playing...

Think of it this way, there are people/players in this game, that could have the same stats as u, and be vr9's with 40cp or less, and ik for a certain fact, that they can with all these disadvantages, beat the best players (without macros ofc)... and the reason to that bro, is simply, the person behind the keyboard. I hope u understood what i said...

Ezareth

Alexandrious wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Yes im very aware of it, what im also very aware of is me a heavily nerfed DK with only two class skills on my bars and only 40 CP, VR9, and no passive points yet into my 2H skill tree, dueling and destroying a VR16 300+ CP Templar and I had no stamina problems, didnt even had a stam drink up, yet thanks to the macros I was trying out to record to my gaming community what to expect to happen if they all decide to give ESO a second shot. But because of those macros, shield blocking stamina loss did not matter, period.

I used a combination of Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Weapon swap to cancel Flame, Heavy Hold Down Weave into Wrecking Blow which I learned from someone on this forum, and kept her on the defensive making her waste magicka by keeping Igneous up and using Rally/Vigor to keep my health topped, would Petrify, yes, petrify, I havent even MORPHED that yet to Fossilize, keeping her locked down whenever I needed to get back resources since she kept roll dodging around like an idiot to avoid my WB Feints. Its pretty funny how much people will dodge or even block when they see WB coming, only for me to cancel it and they waste Stamina. Decided after a petrify she was low and used Spammed Heavy to WB then 0.100 second light to Executioner, finishing with a Dawnbreaker.

Stop defending a exploit. If anyone is a farce its you. Enjoy the new 501CP cap btw. Next best thing to happen to ESO will be the removal of Animation Cancelling, I bet thats gonna come next.

If players like you didn't exist we wouldn't have 1vX videos.

Thank you.

CtrlAltDlt

Animation canceling is grea, dont change it zost.

If you're gonna blame lag then I'm sorry but we all have from time to time and the lag it wont exclusively affect weaving, it affects all skills. Remove animation canceling and all we have a skill spamming festival.

thelordoffelines

The word macro has been thrown around so much in this thread i question whether a good majority of you knows what it means.

I play this game every day and not once have i come across someone who i would say is macroing.

FENGRUSH

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

You really gotta stop defending an exploit here.

Animation cancelling can take rapid movement, and depending on how you got your keys setup, over a period of time can cause strain and eventually damage to your hands, that is why alot of the top PVPers on PC, uses macros.

That is why Zenimax will not ban macro users, they know animation cancelling is an unforeseen mechanic thus exploit, they cannot fix it without upsetting another side of players or a different kind of group of players entirely, they dug this hole by not doing the proper alpha/beta testing of the combat system.

Plenty of players refuse to do animation cancelling because it looks stupid and feels cheap.

You say games are for every age, what about the working guys who were 25-40 at the time when they first played ES Arena, ES Daggerfall, and loved it, only to age 21 years to find out they cant enjoy the game, or even compete due to the 46-61 or older fans of the elder scrolls games being unable to have the hand eye coordination, or make the quick movements needed to Light Slash Cancel to Skill Cancel to Weapon Swap Light swap Cancel to Skill like alot of the so called "Younger Crowd" you mention can do? What if advanced age prevents their hands from doing so? So those long time fans need to be punished? I bet those long time fans, alot of em, will use Macros so they can compete too.

If macro using to be able to use a unintended exploit that is Animation canceling to be akin to cheating, than animation cancelling as a whole is cheating too. In no way should you be able to get off what I mentioned above in less than 3 seconds basically doing 4 attacks in 2-3 seconds should be seen as "Skillful" play and "Intended"

Also, you kids gotta stop being naive, you think any of your "top pvp" buddies will flat out admit they use macros to animation cancel? They wanna keep their ego and look like a God among-st their peers. Of course they wont come out and say they use Macros for their cancelling if its gonna make them look bad.

I LOL'ed.

Last time I played SCII I was averaging between 120-180 APM with the top players in the game averaging 300+ APM. I know many of the top guys are my age in their 30s and are not worried about doing damage to their hands. If you're getting cramps in your hands its because you haven't optimized your setup for your playstyle. In no way is animation cancelling an exploit and you don't have to have amazing reflexes to do it successfully. In most situations you're only animation cancelling once.

@sypherpk2ub17_ESO
@FENGRUSH
@BOLTERITY


Any of you guys want to admit that macros are clearly the source of your skill? Sypher is Macroing a big thing in Legends?

The guys post you responded to is absolutely ridiculous. Its laughable.


No, Lord FENGRUSH does not use macros. The reality is, every skill has an animation. I call this weaving instead of animation canceling - because in reality, I dont animation cancel much anymore. You do realize animation canceling requires a block which now eats into your stam regen @Alexandrious . At this point, if people are macroing, I dont think it really matters, because the game is only going to accept inputs at a certain speed. You dont need macros if you understand when and what you can weave between your skills or in what order. This is called learning to play. What are the 46-61 age group supposed to do? They can use their wisdom and knowledge of the lore to advise the young pubs how to best defeat the enemies with their countless years in battle.

Unfortunately they all fall short of the legend of Lord FENGRUSH because they lack the testicular fortitude to challenge His might.

This thread is a farce, theres so many more relevant issues to be concerned about in ESO that affect players in a large way.

Yes im very aware of it, what im also very aware of is me a heavily nerfed DK with only two class skills on my bars and only 40 CP, VR9, and no passive points yet into my 2H skill tree, dueling and destroying a VR16 300+ CP Templar and I had no stamina problems, didnt even had a stam drink up, yet thanks to the macros I was trying out to record to my gaming community what to expect to happen if they all decide to give ESO a second shot. But because of those macros, shield blocking stamina loss did not matter, period.

I used a combination of Burning Breath, Unstable Flame, Weapon swap to cancel Flame, Heavy Hold Down Weave into Wrecking Blow which I learned from someone on this forum, and kept her on the defensive making her waste magicka by keeping Igneous up and using Rally/Vigor to keep my health topped, would Petrify, yes, petrify, I havent even MORPHED that yet to Fossilize, keeping her locked down whenever I needed to get back resources since she kept roll dodging around like an idiot to avoid my WB Feints. Its pretty funny how much people will dodge or even block when they see WB coming, only for me to cancel it and they waste Stamina. Decided after a petrify she was low and used Spammed Heavy to WB then 0.100 second light to Executioner, finishing with a Dawnbreaker.

Stop defending a exploit. If anyone is a farce its you. Enjoy the new 501CP cap btw. Next best thing to happen to ESO will be the removal of Animation Cancelling, I bet thats gonna come next.

If players like you didn't exist we wouldn't have 1vX videos.

Thank you.

If youre looking for more entertainment, should check this guys post history. I checked one and they just get better and better:

THis is long, but really good, especially the part about sypher.

Alexandrious wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

gibous wrote: »

Alexandrious wrote: »

Why? Cuz its kinda B.S when someone with 1000+ CP waltzes around and with a skip and a hop, tanks 5-10 players all wailing on him and his health never goes down, then when he gets tired, he just runs away and cannot be stopped at all.

There's only a few guys out there with 1k+ CP. Institute a cap on an entire progression system because of like 3-4 people? LOL. Get some PVP friends and focus them down. Or don't engage if you feel you'll get rekt by them.

Also you sure you're not talking about an emperor?

Only a few? Hehehe...hahahaha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Er he's right, only 2 people have hit 1500cp in the gsme, and less than 6 had over 1k. That's from ZOS themselves

Also how do you think they earn this many cp's ? By grinding and working on their character right? Well guess what, that means they haven't actually been in pvp as they've been grinding in pve!

Also look at players like sypher, he has 300 odd cp and there's videos of him taking down 6+ people with ease . Don't blame cp's for your lack of skill

I didnt say 1500 did I? I said 1000+, and seen plenty of them, its honestly not that hard to get for the really hardcore who stuck with the game and utilized the early exploits and mistakes ZoS made to amass alot of CP before things got fixed and changed.

And I got more skill than you kiddo. If Sypher is taking on 6+ people "with ease" with just 300 odd CP, than hes obviously exploiting something thats horribly OP and unbalanced right now to go along with the animation macro cancelling problem.

Please dont B.S a 16+ year mmo veteran >.> No amount of skill can allow 1 player to take on 6 different players and beat them all at once when they could be of varying Lvs, CP, and skill themselves unless exploitation of badly designed skills, and mechanical issues *Animation Cancelling with macros* is used. I hope he at least showed in his videos how much CP he has, if he didnt, he may be B.Sing about the CP amount he has. That just pretty much flat out says their is something very wrong with the game, giving people more reason to quit or stay away from ESO.

Deal with the CP nerf, it was needed. Now they gotta fix animation cancelling and the Nightblade, then the game will be going in the right direction, instead of losing more and more players due to bad game design.

But please child, dont ever wave the "Skill" flag in a game like this, its not skill, its just knowledge of what to exploit and abuse to succeed. The game is far too unbalanced and broken at this time to be able to measure much in "skill".

Man, heh, was funny your post though, very funny, and very ignorant, gonna go out and grab some water and other drinks whew, throats dry from the laughing. Kids these days...hehe. Oh and

/golfclap

Nuff said.

There is literally mention of animation canceling in every one of this guys posts. This is the holy animation cancelling crusader.

Please stop by my stream sometime alexandrios and you can physically see my FTC numbers and let me know when I am animation canceling as I takedown 1v5, 1v10 etc.


Id love to see this bigtime 16 y/o MMO vet point out where the cheating is occurring when FENGRUSH pulls off the impossible before his eyes. Im also like a 16 y/o MMO vet (?) and I dont actually make excuses when Im PvPing in games, its a great feeling.