Why Fortified Nirncrux isn't broken

Attorneyatlawl

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

regardless whether it is broken or not, leets want it nerfed so they can kill more people, or they get killed less.

Honestly? I'm not sure there's much more to this than what you just said, not the last line (omitted from this quote) but the first. I see a whole lot of complaints begging for it to be nerfed heavily, but the truth is it currently is basically balanced, with a small percentage drop being about the only reasonable change you could argue to have made. Removing or significantly nerfing to uselessness (as these people advocating it be changed to a tiny bonus for the specific equipment piece it's traited on) one of the few realistic ways to help gain a moderate level of spell resistance vs. enemies who are built for damage benefits no one except a handful of people using FOTM pony-trick builds wanting to farm some extra AP more easily. Everyone else, including 99% of the people in the top 50 spots on the leaderboards on each campaign? No one of us wants to see it butchered.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

regardless whether it is broken or not, leets want it nerfed so they can kill more people, or they get killed less.

Honestly? I'm not sure there's much more to this than what you just said, not the last line (omitted from this quote) but the first. I see a whole lot of complaints begging for it to be nerfed heavily, but the truth is it currently is basically balanced, with a small percentage drop being about the only reasonable change you could argue to have made. Removing or significantly nerfing to uselessness (as these people advocating it be changed to a tiny bonus for the specific equipment piece it's traited on) one of the few realistic ways to help gain a moderate level of spell resistance vs. enemies who are built for damage benefits no one except a handful of people using FOTM pony-trick builds wanting to farm some extra AP more easily. Everyone else, including 99% of the people in the top 50 spots on the leaderboards on each campaign? No one of us wants to see it butchered.

honestly, while im grateful for at least a partial agreement, i cant help but see the strings attached to the devs.

1. Nearly, if not all, past and future class balance fixes have been at the behest and whines of the pvp crowd

2. imperial city, a pvp zone, is the first dlc coming out.

3. Justice system is planned to have a pvp element

These facts, to me, prove that the devs care far more about the pvp leets than they do any other part of their playerbase.
But even more than they are pandering to the leets, right now they are pandering more, and possibly will continue past its launch, the console potential customers.

Fact is, Pve'ers, Rp'ers, and even pc players, can just kiss all future support goodbye, or at least count on as little attention possible.

Regardless whether or not this is ZOS's intention to inspire this feeling in me, it has been inspired in me, and many, many others, i have yet to see any post from ZOS to support the contrary of this belief.

maryriv

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

regardless whether it is broken or not, leets want it nerfed so they can kill more people, or they get killed less.

Honestly? I'm not sure there's much more to this than what you just said, not the last line (omitted from this quote) but the first. I see a whole lot of complaints begging for it to be nerfed heavily, but the truth is it currently is basically balanced, with a small percentage drop being about the only reasonable change you could argue to have made. Removing or significantly nerfing to uselessness (as these people advocating it be changed to a tiny bonus for the specific equipment piece it's traited on) one of the few realistic ways to help gain a moderate level of spell resistance vs. enemies who are built for damage benefits no one except a handful of people using FOTM pony-trick builds wanting to farm some extra AP more easily. Everyone else, including 99% of the people in the top 50 spots on the leaderboards on each campaign? No one of us wants to see it butchered.

honestly, while im grateful for at least a partial agreement, i cant help but see the strings attached to the devs.

1. Nearly, if not all, past and future class balance fixes have been at the behest and whines of the pvp crowd

2. imperial city, a pvp zone, is the first dlc coming out.

3. Justice system is planned to have a pvp element

These facts, to me, prove that the devs care far more about the pvp leets than they do any other part of their playerbase.
But even more than they are pandering to the leets, right now they are pandering more, and possibly will continue past its launch, the console potential customers.

Fact is, Pve'ers, Rp'ers, and even pc players, can just kiss all future support goodbye, or at least count on as little attention possible.

Regardless whether or not this is ZOS's intention to inspire this feeling in me, it has been inspired in me, and many, many others, i have yet to see any post from ZOS to support the contrary of this belief.

Not JUST the "PvP crowd" but a very small percentage of that crowd. Nerfs that never should have happened.

pppontus

It's so extremely funny, but it's always the same thing with you people.. you want to keep your free immunity to everything in PVE even though the PVE in this game is so easy it practically just suicides in front of you.

Oh well, it's people like you that make ZOS make this game worse and worse for every update, and you dare say ZOS listens to pvpers hahaha. But GJ, you guys have already made half my friends list quit the game, keep it up me and the rest will be on the way out soon.

Then you can have your care bear easy mode pve for yourselves.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

pppontus wrote: »

It's so extremely funny, but it's always the same thing with you people.. you want to keep your free immunity to everything in PVE even though the PVE in this game is so easy it practically just suicides in front of you.

Oh well, it's people like you that make ZOS make this game worse and worse for every update, and you dare say ZOS listens to pvpers hahaha. But GJ, you guys have already made half my friends list quit the game, keep it up me and the rest will be on the way out soon.

Then you can have your care bear easy mode pve for yourselves.

First off, to be clear, i feel that nirncrux or whatever should have never been added to the game, we had enough armor traits in the first place.

moving on, it is not outrageous to assume that because of the obsessive balance fixes and whining of the pvp crowd, this is the cause of the utter lack of extra content like new zones or anything. How many times do you think they had to put off any actual content update to 'fix' the classes. How many projects were 'shelved' due to the pvp'er need to feel 'equal' in a MMORPG.

Lets address the 'easy mode' as you put it. So so many pve'ers were against any form of nerf to the pve, this nerf was infact, as i see it, due to the pvp'ers and their obsessive hatred of pve content, as such it was nerfed so you could fly thought the content and get back into your precious pvp after level grinding. I should not be able to solo a dolmen, or a world boss!!! i should not be able to solo in craglorn, yet all these things are easy as cake now.

You know what i truly want? Remove nirncrux entirley,((once its gone, there will be no whining about if its op or not, since no one can agree on it, and no one will shut up about it, you dont get it at all)) buff pve mobs, and an announcement that there will be no more balance fixes until at least 3 dlc are available.

maryriv

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

It's not broken, get over it. Perhaps roll another class so you can see what others have to deal with when it comes to getting past defences.

Araxleon

Do you guys wanna see a video proving its not broken?
I can make one, this past week I beat people in 1v1s with 1-4 piece nirnhoned.

so be fair I only find it broken on LA sorcs, makes them so tanky.
now that being said, they SHOULD buff reinforced to work like nirn if they never change nirn.

pppontus

maryriv wrote: »

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

It's not broken, get over it. Perhaps roll another class so you can see what others have to deal with when it comes to getting past defences.

Yeah it's such an outrageous trade, 24.5% increase to total spell resistance or 200 extra magicka. So I either reduce the incoming damage of a crystal frag by 1K or hit for 3001 instead of 3000 with my molten whip. Tough choice.

Btw, please tell me which class to reroll. Did they add a new one today because I'm pretty confident I have them all covered?

It's broken, it's gonna change, get over it. People are only upset that it will take until after console launch to actually fix a serious bug like this.

Araxleon wrote: »

Do you guys wanna see a video proving its not broken?
I can make one, this past week I beat people in 1v1s with 1-4 piece nirnhoned.

so be fair I only find it broken on LA sorcs, makes them so tanky.
now that being said, they SHOULD buff reinforced to work like nirn if they never change nirn.

Wow, your logic is unprecedented. I also beat worse players in 1v5. Congrats, you're a better player than whoever you fought, no one is saying "nirnhoned is god mode" - we're saying "nirnhoned is easy mode and too powerful for a *** armor trait".

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

It's so extremely funny, but it's always the same thing with you people.. you want to keep your free immunity to everything in PVE even though the PVE in this game is so easy it practically just suicides in front of you.

Oh well, it's people like you that make ZOS make this game worse and worse for every update, and you dare say ZOS listens to pvpers hahaha. But GJ, you guys have already made half my friends list quit the game, keep it up me and the rest will be on the way out soon.

Then you can have your care bear easy mode pve for yourselves.

First off, to be clear, i feel that nirncrux or whatever should have never been added to the game, we had enough armor traits in the first place.

moving on, it is not outrageous to assume that because of the obsessive balance fixes and whining of the pvp crowd, this is the cause of the utter lack of extra content like new zones or anything. How many times do you think they had to put off any actual content update to 'fix' the classes. How many projects were 'shelved' due to the pvp'er need to feel 'equal' in a MMORPG.

Lets address the 'easy mode' as you put it. So so many pve'ers were against any form of nerf to the pve, this nerf was infact, as i see it, due to the pvp'ers and their obsessive hatred of pve content, as such it was nerfed so you could fly thought the content and get back into your precious pvp after level grinding. I should not be able to solo a dolmen, or a world boss!!! i should not be able to solo in craglorn, yet all these things are easy as cake now.

You know what i truly want? Remove nirncrux entirley,((once its gone, there will be no whining about if its op or not, since no one can agree on it, and no one will shut up about it, you dont get it at all)) buff pve mobs, and an announcement that there will be no more balance fixes until at least 3 dlc are available.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Try going into PvP sometime, it's clear that not a single thought ever went into balancing PvP at all, it's the most unbalanced piece of *** imagineable at the moment. Apart from a few minor tweaks like reflective scales, everything in this game caters to PvE. As someone who does both, extensively, and have done pretty much everything that there is to do in this game - I can tell you that Zenimax doesn't give two craps about PvP.

It was definitely not PvPers asking for nerfs to PvE. I have never ever heard a single person in any PvP guild ever complain about PvE difficulty more than saying it's so easy it's boring. This was brought upon us by the "skyrim crowd" that got too used to dragging the difficulty slider to minus 9000.

And the one and only reason this game has no content, no balance, really.. nothing - is console release as confirmed by Zenimax themselves stating that no more larger changes, content or similar will come until an undetermined date after console launch due to their team working too hard on perfecting the game for consoles to care about the PC version. You can also expect far longer times between all updates in the future, as they will need to test and verify their patches for the console versions before they can release them for PC - in addition to the fact that it takes 3x longer to develop them.

Now, any more made up complaints about how "pvp ruined x"? If so, please go to the Alliance War forums and see for yourself how much they care (not answering a single thread for months on end). Or just experiment, post a question about console - and a question about pvp - see which one gets answered today and which one will not receive an answer until the end of time.

maryriv

pppontus wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

It's not broken, get over it. Perhaps roll another class so you can see what others have to deal with when it comes to getting past defences.

Yeah it's such an outrageous trade, 24.5% increase to total spell resistance or 200 extra magicka. So I either reduce the incoming damage of a crystal frag by 1K or hit for 3001 instead of 3000 with my molten whip. Tough choice.

Btw, please tell me which class to reroll. Did they add a new one today because I'm pretty confident I have them all covered?

It's broken, it's gonna change, get over it. People are only upset that it will take until after console launch to actually fix a serious bug like this.

Araxleon wrote: »

Do you guys wanna see a video proving its not broken?
I can make one, this past week I beat people in 1v1s with 1-4 piece nirnhoned.

so be fair I only find it broken on LA sorcs, makes them so tanky.
now that being said, they SHOULD buff reinforced to work like nirn if they never change nirn.

Wow, your logic is unprecedented. I also beat worse players in 1v5. Congrats, you're a better player than whoever you fought, no one is saying "nirnhoned is god mode" - we're saying "nirnhoned is easy mode and too powerful for a *** armor trait".

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

It's so extremely funny, but it's always the same thing with you people.. you want to keep your free immunity to everything in PVE even though the PVE in this game is so easy it practically just suicides in front of you.

Oh well, it's people like you that make ZOS make this game worse and worse for every update, and you dare say ZOS listens to pvpers hahaha. But GJ, you guys have already made half my friends list quit the game, keep it up me and the rest will be on the way out soon.

Then you can have your care bear easy mode pve for yourselves.

First off, to be clear, i feel that nirncrux or whatever should have never been added to the game, we had enough armor traits in the first place.

moving on, it is not outrageous to assume that because of the obsessive balance fixes and whining of the pvp crowd, this is the cause of the utter lack of extra content like new zones or anything. How many times do you think they had to put off any actual content update to 'fix' the classes. How many projects were 'shelved' due to the pvp'er need to feel 'equal' in a MMORPG.

Lets address the 'easy mode' as you put it. So so many pve'ers were against any form of nerf to the pve, this nerf was infact, as i see it, due to the pvp'ers and their obsessive hatred of pve content, as such it was nerfed so you could fly thought the content and get back into your precious pvp after level grinding. I should not be able to solo a dolmen, or a world boss!!! i should not be able to solo in craglorn, yet all these things are easy as cake now.

You know what i truly want? Remove nirncrux entirley,((once its gone, there will be no whining about if its op or not, since no one can agree on it, and no one will shut up about it, you dont get it at all)) buff pve mobs, and an announcement that there will be no more balance fixes until at least 3 dlc are available.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Try going into PvP sometime, it's clear that not a single thought ever went into balancing PvP at all, it's the most unbalanced piece of *** imagineable at the moment. Apart from a few minor tweaks like reflective scales, everything in this game caters to PvE. As someone who does both, extensively, and have done pretty much everything that there is to do in this game - I can tell you that Zenimax doesn't give two craps about PvP.

It was definitely not PvPers asking for nerfs to PvE. I have never ever heard a single person in any PvP guild ever complain about PvE difficulty more than saying it's so easy it's boring. This was brought upon us by the "skyrim crowd" that got too used to dragging the difficulty slider to minus 9000.

And the one and only reason this game has no content, no balance, really.. nothing - is console release as confirmed by Zenimax themselves stating that no more larger changes, content or similar will come until an undetermined date after console launch due to their team working too hard on perfecting the game for consoles to care about the PC version. You can also expect far longer times between all updates in the future, as they will need to test and verify their patches for the console versions before they can release them for PC - in addition to the fact that it takes 3x longer to develop them.

Now, any more made up complaints about how "pvp ruined x"? If so, please go to the Alliance War forums and see for yourself how much they care (not answering a single thread for months on end). Or just experiment, post a question about console - and a question about pvp - see which one gets answered today and which one will not receive an answer until the end of time.

It's not an outrageous trade, it's a trade plain and simple. The COST alone makes it restrictive. Read posts before commenting please.

pppontus

maryriv wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

It's not broken, get over it. Perhaps roll another class so you can see what others have to deal with when it comes to getting past defences.

Yeah it's such an outrageous trade, 24.5% increase to total spell resistance or 200 extra magicka. So I either reduce the incoming damage of a crystal frag by 1K or hit for 3001 instead of 3000 with my molten whip. Tough choice.

Btw, please tell me which class to reroll. Did they add a new one today because I'm pretty confident I have them all covered?

It's broken, it's gonna change, get over it. People are only upset that it will take until after console launch to actually fix a serious bug like this.

Araxleon wrote: »

Do you guys wanna see a video proving its not broken?
I can make one, this past week I beat people in 1v1s with 1-4 piece nirnhoned.

so be fair I only find it broken on LA sorcs, makes them so tanky.
now that being said, they SHOULD buff reinforced to work like nirn if they never change nirn.

Wow, your logic is unprecedented. I also beat worse players in 1v5. Congrats, you're a better player than whoever you fought, no one is saying "nirnhoned is god mode" - we're saying "nirnhoned is easy mode and too powerful for a *** armor trait".

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

It's so extremely funny, but it's always the same thing with you people.. you want to keep your free immunity to everything in PVE even though the PVE in this game is so easy it practically just suicides in front of you.

Oh well, it's people like you that make ZOS make this game worse and worse for every update, and you dare say ZOS listens to pvpers hahaha. But GJ, you guys have already made half my friends list quit the game, keep it up me and the rest will be on the way out soon.

Then you can have your care bear easy mode pve for yourselves.

First off, to be clear, i feel that nirncrux or whatever should have never been added to the game, we had enough armor traits in the first place.

moving on, it is not outrageous to assume that because of the obsessive balance fixes and whining of the pvp crowd, this is the cause of the utter lack of extra content like new zones or anything. How many times do you think they had to put off any actual content update to 'fix' the classes. How many projects were 'shelved' due to the pvp'er need to feel 'equal' in a MMORPG.

Lets address the 'easy mode' as you put it. So so many pve'ers were against any form of nerf to the pve, this nerf was infact, as i see it, due to the pvp'ers and their obsessive hatred of pve content, as such it was nerfed so you could fly thought the content and get back into your precious pvp after level grinding. I should not be able to solo a dolmen, or a world boss!!! i should not be able to solo in craglorn, yet all these things are easy as cake now.

You know what i truly want? Remove nirncrux entirley,((once its gone, there will be no whining about if its op or not, since no one can agree on it, and no one will shut up about it, you dont get it at all)) buff pve mobs, and an announcement that there will be no more balance fixes until at least 3 dlc are available.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Try going into PvP sometime, it's clear that not a single thought ever went into balancing PvP at all, it's the most unbalanced piece of *** imagineable at the moment. Apart from a few minor tweaks like reflective scales, everything in this game caters to PvE. As someone who does both, extensively, and have done pretty much everything that there is to do in this game - I can tell you that Zenimax doesn't give two craps about PvP.

It was definitely not PvPers asking for nerfs to PvE. I have never ever heard a single person in any PvP guild ever complain about PvE difficulty more than saying it's so easy it's boring. This was brought upon us by the "skyrim crowd" that got too used to dragging the difficulty slider to minus 9000.

And the one and only reason this game has no content, no balance, really.. nothing - is console release as confirmed by Zenimax themselves stating that no more larger changes, content or similar will come until an undetermined date after console launch due to their team working too hard on perfecting the game for consoles to care about the PC version. You can also expect far longer times between all updates in the future, as they will need to test and verify their patches for the console versions before they can release them for PC - in addition to the fact that it takes 3x longer to develop them.

Now, any more made up complaints about how "pvp ruined x"? If so, please go to the Alliance War forums and see for yourself how much they care (not answering a single thread for months on end). Or just experiment, post a question about console - and a question about pvp - see which one gets answered today and which one will not receive an answer until the end of time.

It's not an outrageous trade, it's a trade plain and simple. The COST alone makes it restrictive. Read posts before commenting please.

Haha.. cost? That would imply that gold in this game was actually hard to come by.

Sorry, your beloved easymode nirn is scheduled to be fixed, just gotta sell some console copies first to make $.

Terminus1

Ooops. I accidentally stepped into this room and read a couple of the posts.

I just don't know enough about this to make any sort of educated comment, but since my eyes are still bleeding after having read all of this - I think I am going to just go ahead and burn all the Nirncrux I have stored from harvesting...

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl - You argue as if if there was some drawback or opportunity cost to equipping nirn. There isn't.

Yes there is. The Opportunity Cost for going 5-7 Nirn is All other sets in the game are unavailable, not to mention most of the damage being dealt in Cyrodiil is the stamina/physical vareity in which Nirn is useless and a wasted investment.

IMO any more then 2 armor pieces with Nirn on it is simply a waste, its not about numbers, its about evaluating external factors and trends, Trends show Stamina or Physical damage is by far the most popular in Cyrodiil, the Steel Tornado Zerg meta is just one of the many trends showing this fact to be true. The abundance of two handed, bow, and dual wield from Sorc's to Templars and everyone in-between just further expounds this fact.

when 7 out of 10 players are magic based, then we can re-visit Nirn, it will have value then, right now, the bottom has fallen out of the Nirn market, and any investment of more then 2 pieces of it simply doesn't make sense from a ROI perspective.

That's not what I meant. Since you can *never* have nirn on a dropped set, it is not a "loss" since the option was never available to you in the first place.

What "trends"? I think you mean "my anecdotal estimation." It's not a "fact" and that you bring duel wielding sorcerers as proof is laughable as sorcs use duel wield to increase their spell damage (nice logic ZoS).

And what difference does it make how many players nrin nueters? It either gives too much resistance or it doesn't. So just because you think only 30% of players use magicka it ok for nirn to turn their attacks into wet noodles?

What you are basically saying here is since everyone uses stamina there is no need to worry about nirn eviscerating magicka DPS.

RinaldoGandolphi

maryriv wrote: »

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

Reinforced is totally worth it on Heavy Armor for upping Physical Mitigation. As more and more folks abandon magic builds in favor of stmaina builds, Reinforced will be very much in demand.

Snit

It's so powerful it makes all other armor traits useless.

Also, it's not capped at 50%. Your mitigation is capped at 50%, but an overage will be applied to the caster's spell penetration (which may well be in excess of 50%).

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl - You argue as if if there was some drawback or opportunity cost to equipping nirn. There isn't.

Yes there is. The Opportunity Cost for going 5-7 Nirn is All other sets in the game are unavailable, not to mention most of the damage being dealt in Cyrodiil is the stamina/physical vareity in which Nirn is useless and a wasted investment.

IMO any more then 2 armor pieces with Nirn on it is simply a waste, its not about numbers, its about evaluating external factors and trends, Trends show Stamina or Physical damage is by far the most popular in Cyrodiil, the Steel Tornado Zerg meta is just one of the many trends showing this fact to be true. The abundance of two handed, bow, and dual wield from Sorc's to Templars and everyone in-between just further expounds this fact.

when 7 out of 10 players are magic based, then we can re-visit Nirn, it will have value then, right now, the bottom has fallen out of the Nirn market, and any investment of more then 2 pieces of it simply doesn't make sense from a ROI perspective.

That's not what I meant. Since you can *never* have nirn on a dropped set, it is not a "loss" since the option was never available to you in the first place.

What "trends"? I think you mean "my anecdotal estimation." It's not a "fact" and that you bring duel wielding sorcerers as proof is laughable as sorcs use duel wield to increase their spell damage (nice logic ZoS).

And what difference does it make how many players nrin nueters? It either gives too much resistance or it doesn't. So just because you think only 30% of players use magicka it ok for nirn to turn their attacks into wet noodles?

What you are basically saying here is since everyone uses stamina there is no need to worry about nirn eviscerating magicka DPS.

No, after furthering messing with it, the costs of countering Nirnhoned(what one must give up) far outweighs the cost of what one armor trait can do, and it needs to be looked at and adjusted. Just imagine if reinfoeced did for physical resistance what Nirn does for spell resist.....it would put stamina users in the same boat...it needs to be looked at sooner rather then later.

Joy_Division

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl - You argue as if if there was some drawback or opportunity cost to equipping nirn. There isn't.

Yes there is. The Opportunity Cost for going 5-7 Nirn is All other sets in the game are unavailable, not to mention most of the damage being dealt in Cyrodiil is the stamina/physical vareity in which Nirn is useless and a wasted investment.

IMO any more then 2 armor pieces with Nirn on it is simply a waste, its not about numbers, its about evaluating external factors and trends, Trends show Stamina or Physical damage is by far the most popular in Cyrodiil, the Steel Tornado Zerg meta is just one of the many trends showing this fact to be true. The abundance of two handed, bow, and dual wield from Sorc's to Templars and everyone in-between just further expounds this fact.

when 7 out of 10 players are magic based, then we can re-visit Nirn, it will have value then, right now, the bottom has fallen out of the Nirn market, and any investment of more then 2 pieces of it simply doesn't make sense from a ROI perspective.

That's not what I meant. Since you can *never* have nirn on a dropped set, it is not a "loss" since the option was never available to you in the first place.

What "trends"? I think you mean "my anecdotal estimation." It's not a "fact" and that you bring duel wielding sorcerers as proof is laughable as sorcs use duel wield to increase their spell damage (nice logic ZoS).

And what difference does it make how many players nrin nueters? It either gives too much resistance or it doesn't. So just because you think only 30% of players use magicka it ok for nirn to turn their attacks into wet noodles?

What you are basically saying here is since everyone uses stamina there is no need to worry about nirn eviscerating magicka DPS.

No, after furthering messing with it, the costs of countering Nirnhoned(what one must give up) far outweighs the cost of what one armor trait can do, and it needs to be looked at and adjusted. Just imagine if reinfoeced did for physical resistance what Nirn does for spell resist.....it would put stamina users in the same boat...it needs to be looked at sooner rather then later.

This is what I and others have been arguing from the beginning

dantator

maryriv wrote: »

1. It is cost restrictive.
2. It is capped at 50% anyway.
3. You are forced to use crafter armor which is vastly inferior to most PvP sets.
4. You sacrifice other traits you could be using on the armor.

Please stop nerfing things that aren't broken just because a few mages get mad that they can't 2 shot people anymore.

Edit: Added other reasons the community brought forward.

I invite you to play as a magicka DK or Templar right now in cyrodiil without using nirn or broken skills/mechanics. Go up against a nirn user and tell me how it goes. I'm like 99.99% sure you're a stamina build because if you were a magicka you would of not defend nirn.

If you have at least 3 nirn it halves my magicka DK's damage (I have numerous recordings of me fighting nirn users). I can show you a 2v2 Cross and I had in the 2v2 Legend tournaments.

I was a magicka DK since pre release and when magicka DKs were OP, I didn't deny it and I didn't go on forums trying to defend it.

Ugh, wish I can go off in the forums at people like you but hey at least the moderating on the forums helps keep my cool.

dantator

Cogo wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

1. It is cost restrictive.
2. It is capped at 50% anyway.

Please stop nerfing things that aren't broken just because a few mages get mad that they can't 2 shot people anymore.

Agreed!

......or 1-shotted by 2H wielding Sorcerers, who found the Overload ultimate!

I don't get why the solution for some players always is nerf what is too hard?
Get better and beat it!
Called player skill I hear...

If you are insulting me or Divine Cross of not being skilled. Come Duel us...

*Gotta keep my cool here*

*So tough*

*Someone please help me*

dantator

maryriv wrote: »

If you use Nirncrux you are sacrificing other traits namely Divines or Infused which are the only other two options of worth (on armor). It's all about give and take, most of the disagreement is coming form sorcerers who are used to 3 shoting people by spamming 2 abilities.

It's not broken, get over it. Perhaps roll another class so you can see what others have to deal with when it comes to getting past defences.

What sacrifice?! You're comparing Nirn to Divines! Like, where have you been since ESO came out? Do you even PvP?!

Please give me some of the drugs you are taking. Please.

Trinert

Why must people defend something that is considered the Bane of magika builds? See this is where most of nirn defenders logic falls apart, Does nirn have a counter part ? NO . Is there a trait equally beneficial ? NO . Is there a counter to nirn? NO . No amount of spell pen that you can gain in the game can cut through someone stacking more then 5 pieces of nirn and to say that reinforced is as good as nirn is just a joke... What people fail to understand is that Nirn isnt the only thing nerfing magika builds , has anyone seen the champion tree? There is a counter for every aspect that increases magika damage (and few to none that counter stam). I mean come on there is a passive that gives raw spell resistance... Nirn is just another nail in the coffin for magika builds. Nerfing nirn is one of the steps that need to be taken to balance the game. If nirn is so balanced , why do 99% of the people using nirn lie about not (using) it ? correction (ABUSING) it.

@Divine Cross

Rust_in_Peace

Nirn is fine; make Reinfored scale the same way. The time to kill is still laughably short even when wearing Nirn so asking for it to be nerfed is ignoring the real issue.

Change that and increase Ultimate generation when you're outnumbered in Cyrodiil and we might start having fun fights again.

Trinert

Making Reinforced scale like nirn wont fix nirn >.> Med/heavy armor with nirn will have more resistance then light armor stacking the same amount with reinforced... Also if reinforced did scale like nirn we would be faced with people that have capped mitigation on both spell res and armor no matter what they wear .

Samuel_Bantien

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

regardless whether it is broken or not, leets want it nerfed so they can kill more people, or they get killed less.

Honestly? I'm not sure there's much more to this than what you just said, not the last line (omitted from this quote) but the first. I see a whole lot of complaints begging for it to be nerfed heavily, but the truth is it currently is basically balanced, with a small percentage drop being about the only reasonable change you could argue to have made. Removing or significantly nerfing to uselessness (as these people advocating it be changed to a tiny bonus for the specific equipment piece it's traited on) one of the few realistic ways to help gain a moderate level of spell resistance vs. enemies who are built for damage benefits no one except a handful of people using FOTM pony-trick builds wanting to farm some extra AP more easily. Everyone else, including 99% of the people in the top 50 spots on the leaderboards on each campaign? No one of us wants to see it butchered.

The reason magicka pvpers are built for damage is because of you nirnhoned scalawags mitigating all of our damage. Nirnhoned deserves the nerf hammer. Those who build completely around damage have 0 sustain and 0 resources L2P issue there. The top 50 of every campaign is probably running 3-5 pieces of nirnhoned because of how OP it is and how much more survivability they have against magicka users. Try overstacking Nirnhoned to negate all spell penetration, sounds fair for magicka users I suppose amirite? Those who do not want Nirnhoned nerfed are those that are stuck in PvE land or those who haven't grasped or seen any kind of PvP in this game or they're stamina builds that feel the need to pigeonhole magicka builds to stack spell max damage with 0 resources so they can permadodge until they can't fight back.

Xeven

I just read this thread. So much derp.

In the context of a magicka sorc...

You die when your health reaches zero. Thanks captain obvious but lets talk about how it got there. You neglected your wards both in your build and on the field so my purple frag of doom just got through and knocked you on your arse. Not only did it get through but your nirn didnt help because of overflow.

Guess what? Your 15k health is now 6k. Your effective hp with nirn is now 7500. Im going to blow through that in less than a second, and you can believe your health gon' reach zero, bro. Math is hard, lol. Logic is whats hard for you fools, apparenly.

Replace the words purple frag with the words wrecking blow, and all your lol napkin math sounds even more dumb than it already does.

Nirn is overpowered, but its doing almost nothing for a magicka sorc. Get over it.

Morvul

"Attorneyatlawl wrote:

"I can crit against bubbles

please tell us more....

Peekachu99

If you're stacking more than 2 pieces of Nirn, you're not efficiently min/maxing anyway. The most spell damage that you can even reduce is 50%, so you're wasting armor traits that could be more wisely allocated.

Septimus_Magna

Every build needs at least 18k spell resist because most magicka builds have about 12-13k spell penetration. If you use mainly light armor you will need 3-5 nirnhoned pieces to have decent resist against spells. Im still not sure how spell resist and spell penetration exactly work and I have the idea this mechanism has been broken since beta.

Im curious how the nirnhoned nerf will turn out, hopefully my nirn gear wont become useless.

Morvul

Peekachu99 wrote: »

If you're stacking more than 2 pieces of Nirn, you're not efficiently min/maxing anyway. The most spell damage that you can even reduce is 50% anyway, so you're wasting armor traits that could be more wisely allocated.

the only serious trade-off for Nirn armor, is that drop sets are not available with nirn.
But if you CRAFT a piece anyway, then what you give up for nirn is ~40/100 primary stat (infused on small/large) or ~55 primary stat or ~20 regeneration rate (divines bonus of your mundus).

every other armor trait is not worth considering anyway (witht he exception of "reinforced" - which works differently and is much, much weaker then nirn)

Turelus

Too bad ZOS have said it is broken...

G0ku

I don´t even calculate these things, I don´t give a crap about maths. It´s a game not science. Many here claimed to know exactly what´s going on math-wise but I did not see a single calculation which was not based on assumptions how the game works, no one of you really knows how it is calculated or if it really calculates how it is supposed to do...

I just put on 3 pieces of nirn and witnessed the result. And imho nirn is disproportionate stronger than any other trait.

But that cries not necessarily for a nerf in my oppinion. They could also buff resistances of light armor users against all these weapon damage stacking players just the same way. Time to kill is too short in PvP for my taste, so I would prefer they would increase TTK as a whole no matter which way they achieve it.