NBs FEAR needs a massive nerf at this current state of PvP.

Ezareth

Looking at my videos I count 8 seconds of white circles at my feet on the youtube timer after I break free. Am I missing something here? I couldn't afford to constantly break free if it were 5 seconds but I won't put money on either.

Lava_Croft

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So i still havent seen a legitiment counter to Fear and all abilities in this game should have a way to counter. dont worry fear is not the only ability in the game with out a counter, petrify is another one. these two abilites are the only two instant cast abilities that you cannot dodge or block.

Because there is no real counter to these abilities through skillful play. this is why they are considered OP in there very nature. the other abilities that are similar are rune prison, agony, and spear shard. all have a cast time or an amount of time to avoid the area it will land. petrify and fear cannot be countered.

in order to balance this they need to add a 1 second cast time to petrify and fear, this will give a skillful counter to these abilities that cannot be blockable or dodgable, and dont give me you cant cast stuff because i cast stuff all the time. nightblades can still get suprise fears on people, they will just have to cast while cloaked. petrify is way too good for an isntant cast ability anyway, there is no denying that. Notice that i am not putting the cast time on par with sorc and nightblades equivalents which are 1.5 second cast times, i think 1 second cast time for petrify and fear is a good compromise, even if they are still way better then rune prison, agony and spear shard.

A year into the game and you still don't know about the effect called Immovable?

Hint: It comes from an ability (underpowered) and potions (overpowered).

Lyzaaa

The problem is that the meta shifted from being more resource management based to burst based. Not only do Nightblades have the best opener to dish out the burst thru fear, they also have one of the best resource management considering stamina to dodge roll like crazy, meaning they're insanely hard to burst down as thats basicly the only way to win vs them right now.

Same is pretty much said for sorc, due to resources not being that much of a problem anymore it's insanely hard to bring any decent sorc down.

The combination of Fear is not only so insanely strong because it brings an "opener" to dish out the burst, its inasnely effective to burn someone's stamina. The opponent has to break free but in alot of circumstances he has to dodge roll right after to not eat that insane amount of damage anyways.

I think the biggest problem right now that either dodge roll is to cheap, or theres to many easy ways to get stamina regeneration. Another problem being is the "tripots"

Not to mention on top of all this NB have suprise attack which reduces armor, is a great skill to dish out in between, meaning more burst or sustained damage, and most importantly it cant be dodge rolled afaik.

Then there is dark cloak, it just shrugs off any Damage over time.. aaand ye well to much..

My biggest issue with NB's is .. yea theres detection potions but will it help that much? In all seriousness theres no counterplay to a good nightblade.

Tintinabula

Varicite wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

5 sec immunity to fear after a break free is laughable. It needs to be longer.

that much I can agree with.

Why does the immunity to fear need to be longer than to every other CC? o.O

Not all CCs take you out of the fight and leave you unable to block like fear does. If you wanna make talons a stun as well where you cannot block that is fine with me.

Varicite

Tintinabula wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Tintinabula wrote: »

5 sec immunity to fear after a break free is laughable. It needs to be longer.

that much I can agree with.

Why does the immunity to fear need to be longer than to every other CC? o.O

Not all CCs take you out of the fight and leave you unable to block like fear does. If you wanna make talons a stun as well where you cannot block that is fine with me.

What does Talons have to do w/ fear? <.<

PS) If you are CC'd, you are unable to block, no matter what you got CC'd by. If you mean that Fear goes through block like all of the other incapacitate effects, then I guess you have a point that it's unique in not breaking after a certain amount of damage done.

Soulac

Lyzaaa wrote: »

The problem is that the meta shifted from being more resource management based to burst based. Not only do Nightblades have the best opener to dish out the burst thru fear, they also have one of the best resource management considering stamina to dodge roll like crazy, meaning they're insanely hard to burst down as thats basicly the only way to win vs them right now.

Same is pretty much said for sorc, due to resources not being that much of a problem anymore it's insanely hard to bring any decent sorc down.

The combination of Fear is not only so insanely strong because it brings an "opener" to dish out the burst, its inasnely effective to burn someone's stamina. The opponent has to break free but in alot of circumstances he has to dodge roll right after to not eat that insane amount of damage anyways.

I think the biggest problem right now that either dodge roll is to cheap, or theres to many easy ways to get stamina regeneration. Another problem being is the "tripots"

Not to mention on top of all this NB have suprise attack which reduces armor, is a great skill to dish out in between, meaning more burst or sustained damage, and most importantly it cant be dodge rolled afaik.

Then there is dark cloak, it just shrugs off any Damage over time.. aaand ye well to much..

My biggest issue with NB's is .. yea theres detection potions but will it help that much? In all seriousness theres no counterplay to a good nightblade.

Surprise Attack is dodgeable, the Magicka version of it isn't.

Also your detection potions will help a lot, use them if you can afford them.

cozmon3c_ESO

counters to cloak,
*** toggle (please remove toggles from the game zos we only have 10 damn buttons)
detect pot (which i choose to use against nightblades or they just stealth away unhindered)
Flare (tried it, it works like ass. nightblades run faster in stealth before this thing even hits the ground. the burning morph rarely hits a stealther and the one that stays on the ground is really the only viable one but is still crappy)

counters to fear
immovable (nerfed into, why bother even using and as a magicka user, not even worth it)
immovable potion (nice and strong, but if you are going to use this against night blade you need to be able to see them, so the night blade will just hide out in cloak until this pot is done and then fear your ass into oblivion)(so if you want to kill a night blade you have to use detect pot)


I would have to say night blades are one of the strongest classes in the game right now, rarely do i ever get one shot by another class compared to this one. With fear taking forever to cc break it may be the reason it seems OP. though there is no skillful counter play against fear (along with petrify). cant be dodged, cant be blocked, you cant avoid it because the night blade will just cloak and use it next to you, or charge skill and use it. there needs to be a counter play to abilities in this game, and fear is lacking in that category.

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

Cody

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

counters to cloak,
*** toggle (please remove toggles from the game zos we only have 10 damn buttons)
detect pot (which i choose to use against nightblades or they just stealth away unhindered)
Flare (tried it, it works like ass. nightblades run faster in stealth before this thing even hits the ground. the burning morph rarely hits a stealther and the one that stays on the ground is really the only viable one but is still crappy)

counters to fear
immovable (nerfed into, why bother even using and as a magicka user, not even worth it)
immovable potion (nice and strong, but if you are going to use this against night blade you need to be able to see them, so the night blade will just hide out in cloak until this pot is done and then fear your ass into oblivion)(so if you want to kill a night blade you have to use detect pot)


I would have to say night blades are one of the strongest classes in the game right now, rarely do i ever get one shot by another class compared to this one. With fear taking forever to cc break it may be the reason it seems OP. though there is no skillful counter play against fear (along with petrify). cant be dodged, cant be blocked, you cant avoid it because the night blade will just cloak and use it next to you, or charge skill and use it. there needs to be a counter play to abilities in this game, and fear is lacking in that category.

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

a stamina NB will not be using cloak then hitting you with fear unless they just dont care about their magicka.

I also assume you did not try any AOE attacks or magelight for that cloak. I use steel tornado for my stamina DK for the sole purpose of finding cloaked NBs, and it works very well.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I would have to say night blades are one of the strongest classes in the game right now, rarely do i ever get one shot by another class compared to this one. With fear taking forever to cc break it may be the reason it seems OP. though there is no skillful counter play against fear (along with petrify). cant be dodged, cant be blocked, you cant avoid it because the night blade will just cloak and use it next to you, or charge skill and use it. there needs to be a counter play to abilities in this game, and fear is lacking in that category.

Really? Lets see, I get one shot regularly by Sorc (Crystal Fragments), Templar (Radiant Destruction, aka Jesus Beam), and anyone with lvl 10 mages guild (Ice Comet)... Which NB ability are you getting hit by that does 17k+ damage (not counting snipe, since anyone can get that)? Furthermore, why is it that there are no Stamina based attacks (to my knowledge anyway. Please correct if I'm wrong) that can hit for 17k+ damage on a regular basis? Yes, there's Surprise Attack, but it only hits like that if you initiate combat, from stealth, while directly behind the target. All these magicka based heavy hitters do that kind of damage anywhere, and at any time. No "special conditions" required.

Lava_Croft

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

Try throwing down Caltrops or a Flare.

Varicite

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

I dunno, why is NB the only class whose supposed primary defense is neutered by a potion?

cozmon3c_ESO

shane.roberts25b14_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I would have to say night blades are one of the strongest classes in the game right now, rarely do i ever get one shot by another class compared to this one. With fear taking forever to cc break it may be the reason it seems OP. though there is no skillful counter play against fear (along with petrify). cant be dodged, cant be blocked, you cant avoid it because the night blade will just cloak and use it next to you, or charge skill and use it. there needs to be a counter play to abilities in this game, and fear is lacking in that category.

Really? Lets see, I get one shot regularly by Sorc (Crystal Fragments), Templar (Radiant Destruction, aka Jesus Beam), and anyone with lvl 10 mages guild (Ice Comet)... Which NB ability are you getting hit by that does 17k+ damage (not counting snipe, since anyone can get that)? Furthermore, why is it that there are no Stamina based attacks (to my knowledge anyway. Please correct if I'm wrong) that can hit for 17k+ damage on a regular basis? Yes, there's Surprise Attack, but it only hits like that if you initiate combat, from stealth, while directly behind the target. All these magicka based heavy hitters do that kind of damage anywhere, and at any time. No "special conditions" required.

One shot by crystal fragments, lol. did you not dodge or cloak? its the most avoidable damage in the game with so many counters available, especially to NB.

Jesus beam i can agree with you on, its OP, direct damage. though NB have a nice counter to it, its called cloak.

Ice comet, please if your a NB getting hit by this ever you are just plain bad, you are the only class that can avoid the damage by cloaking and it doesnt even hit the ground then. sorc has to eat it unless they use Sword and board, dk can reflect, templar can reflect.

ok, im going to correct you here, Stam based attacks hit for 17k+ all the time, more then any magkica attack on a regular basis. I have been hit for 17k+ by mainly snipe, wrecking blow, soul harvest, and this is all out of stealth. when its from stealth its pretty any combo you can quick burst faster then a person can cc break. Again i dont see how you as a NB can be one shot by crystal frag unless you didnt see it coming for a dodge roll spam or cloak spam.

TheBucket

Varicite wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

I dunno, why is NB the only class whose supposed primary defense is neutered by a potion?

Because the current meta for a Sorc is not to run anything that counters a NB. They want to run Mines,Shield,Curse,MD.

Just because you choose not to run something to counter another class doesn't mean that class is OP.

cozmon3c_ESO

TheBucket wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

I dunno, why is NB the only class whose supposed primary defense is neutered by a potion?

Because the current meta for a Sorc is not to run anything that counters a NB. They want to run Mines,Shield,Curse,MD.

Just because you choose not to run something to counter another class doesn't mean that class is OP.

i do run all those, and none of those will stop the first onslaught of burst that you will be lucky to survive in light armor. i love getting one shot all the time, do you?

Mephiston87

I was actually discussing with a group of people in pvp earlier about this topic, and they all agreed it needs to become a single target skill or made significantly more expensive. these "zerg trains" were seeing are using this fear ability to endlessly spam and AOE everyone, in only a short time all friendly's are completely out of stam and theyr still full stam spamming it.

It very much needs to be altered in some form.

shane.roberts25b14_ESO

Varicite wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

also why is NB the only class you have to use potions against to have a decent chance against them? (the good ones, not the no skill ones everywhere)

I dunno, why is NB the only class whose supposed primary defense is neutered by a potion?

I know, right? I don't see any "potion of blink nulification" to use on sorcs, or "potion of dragon blood neutralization" to use on DKs. And while I'm on the subject of offensive potions, why are craftable poisons not in the game? Get rid of the stupid Snake Blood passive and instead let us craft negative effect potions that act as weapons poisons already!

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i dont think they are 'blind' they are just focusing on console release, which is a greater sin in my opinion. Blatently ignoring their consumers is not a good idea for any buisness

TheBucket

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i do run all those, and none of those will stop the first onslaught of burst that you will be lucky to survive in light armor. i love getting one shot all the time, do you?

Thanks for making my point.

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danno8

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

shane.roberts25b14_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

I would have to say night blades are one of the strongest classes in the game right now, rarely do i ever get one shot by another class compared to this one. With fear taking forever to cc break it may be the reason it seems OP. though there is no skillful counter play against fear (along with petrify). cant be dodged, cant be blocked, you cant avoid it because the night blade will just cloak and use it next to you, or charge skill and use it. there needs to be a counter play to abilities in this game, and fear is lacking in that category.

Really? Lets see, I get one shot regularly by Sorc (Crystal Fragments), Templar (Radiant Destruction, aka Jesus Beam), and anyone with lvl 10 mages guild (Ice Comet)... Which NB ability are you getting hit by that does 17k+ damage (not counting snipe, since anyone can get that)? Furthermore, why is it that there are no Stamina based attacks (to my knowledge anyway. Please correct if I'm wrong) that can hit for 17k+ damage on a regular basis? Yes, there's Surprise Attack, but it only hits like that if you initiate combat, from stealth, while directly behind the target. All these magicka based heavy hitters do that kind of damage anywhere, and at any time. No "special conditions" required.

One shot by crystal fragments, lol. did you not dodge or cloak? its the most avoidable damage in the game with so many counters available, especially to NB.

Jesus beam i can agree with you on, its OP, direct damage. though NB have a nice counter to it, its called cloak.

Ice comet, please if your a NB getting hit by this ever you are just plain bad, you are the only class that can avoid the damage by cloaking and it doesnt even hit the ground then. sorc has to eat it unless they use Sword and board, dk can reflect, templar can reflect.

ok, im going to correct you here, Stam based attacks hit for 17k+ all the time, more then any magkica attack on a regular basis. I have been hit for 17k+ by mainly snipe, wrecking blow, soul harvest, and this is all out of stealth. when its from stealth its pretty any combo you can quick burst faster then a person can cc break. Again i dont see how you as a NB can be one shot by crystal frag unless you didnt see it coming for a dodge roll spam or cloak spam.

Templar can not reflect meteor with Eclipse anymore, since they changed it so it no longer reflects anything that has already been casted and is in flight ( and no one with half a brain will cast meteor with a big dark sphere around their character.

Also I would like to say that insta cast CF is not the most avoidable skill in the game. Meteor, Dark Flare, Vampires Bane are some examples of more telegraphed incoming damage, longer travel time or what not. If it was so bad no Sorcerer would be running it.

Bouvin

pokinatchapunx wrote: »

King Bozo wrote: »

NB needs nerfed. Look at all the NB players sweating and trying to prove there points. In the end they need nerfed. Fear needs nerfed.

Says the ardent defender of the sorc class...

-_-

^^^^^

THIS

xaraan

As a NB, fear definitely needs a nerf. Perhaps a cool down on a per player bases. At this point it's an insta-win for most NBs fighting anyone magicka based that can't CC break constantly (now that CC break costs most of a stam bar for a non stam build). But the biggest problem is that now, after the fix today about the fear through world, I've found that it's not CC breaking half the time at all. I have a full stam bar, CC break ,watch my stam go down and stay feared while I die.

trimsic_ESO

IMHO, we need a stronger fear immunity after we get feared. This is a quick win change.

jelliedsoup

yeah fear is the only op skill in the game

Spangla

xaraan wrote: »

As a NB, fear definitely needs a nerf. Perhaps a cool down on a per player bases. At this point it's an insta-win for most NBs fighting anyone magicka based that can't CC break constantly (now that CC break costs most of a stam bar for a non stam build). But the biggest problem is that now, after the fix today about the fear through world, I've found that it's not CC breaking half the time at all. I have a full stam bar, CC break ,watch my stam go down and stay feared while I die.

In between the fears nbs are perma role dodgeing to avoid damage.

The problem is not fear it is the gimpy role dodge crap mechanic.



How obvious is it - role dodge and sorcs are the two problems with this patch.

Waylander

Higher magica cost of fear would make it less able to be chained without some focus on magica regen, which removes some focus on stamina regen or weapon power.

This is reasonable as it can fear 3 targets, so a high cost given its effectiveness is warranted. It would then hinder a stamina NB's ability to use cloak and other class abilities.

I can't imagine anyone uses the trap morph, so reworking it to be a lower cost single target (instant cast) fear would make it a viable option for those engaging in 1 v 1 fights rather than 1 v X fights.

Magica NB's would still be able to utilise it more, which is fine as the burst on a magica NB is not close to a stamina NB.

Using roll dodge to mitigate 85% of damage is a separate issue to fear as it is not NB specific.

olsborg

Currently the only counterplay to nbs imo is detection pots, lame to use, yes, but what other choice (I have no room to use radiant magelight since it takes 2 toggled slots)

bloodenragedb14_ESO

last time a NB ambushed me, i just spammed empowered ward and let my pets kill him. then again, he probably wasnt a very good nb

deepseamk20b14_ESO

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

IMHO, we need a stronger fear immunity after we get feared. This is a quick win change.

You already get an immunity, its 4 or 5 seconds if you were feared and didn't break CC, just tested this the other day. You don't want a fix you want a complete Nerf to make the skill useless.

People saying they are back to back perma feared need to L2P. I never have issues against other NB's. As far as magicka users with less stamina you should have zero issues. When I played magicka NB I had 10k stamina with 1000 stamina regen. More than enough to break free then have enough stamina to break free again once my immunity was down. As we say in the military "choose your rate, choose your fate". You can't call Nerf just because someone is countering your particular build. Not only that, if you are still having issues there are several champion passives you can put points into to make fear either last shorter or less cost to break free, or more stamina regen so you always have stamina to break free. CP isn't just there to make you some OP player, it is also there to help strengthen you where you may be weak.

Everyone always wants changes that benefit them without actually thinking about the repercautions. I've played many awesome players who will break free every time, I personally o my use fear to get maybe 1 or 2 hits, to get a person off me so I can reposition, or to snare and maim rebuff them. I never try and spam fear because its a huge waste of magicka. If you are losing to someone who is spamming fear there are much bigger issues than fear for you and anyone else who complains about the skill being OP.

As the OP said, the skill is fine, they just need to fix the bugs that come along with it that aren't intended.

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