NBs FEAR needs a massive nerf at this current state of PvP.

monkeymystic

I think I speak for all when I say that Fear is one of the most overpowered abilities out there (in any MMO).
An instant cast AoE CC that chugs down the stamina of enemies like butter, and this *single* ability is having such a huge impact on ALL PvP on it's own. No other ability comes close in 1.6 (talons is useless now thanks to cheap dodge spam)

Then you combine this with a class that has gotten so many buffs caused by whining of bad players (add all the bug fixing on top of the buffs that made the class even stronger too).
NBs have infinite regen (dodge roll forever is easy) compared to the rest, but the most OP ability combined with all the rest is the ability to get away from situations with cloak (and dont use the bugged card, its still OP as hell).

The fact that NBs can run in a army of players, dodge roll forever while they spam fear, can't die, then cloak, and maintain untouched, and at the same time dish out insane amounts of damage is the definition of OP. Sorcerers are the only class close to this atm, but they don't have the combination of AOE Fear included.

And Talons you say? This ability has been nerfed so hard, and is now useless thanks to buggy 6m radius, and dodge is so easy now that the caster loses in the end.

Change fear to work on 1 target, so its balanced with current stuns. Or make it a 1.5 sec casted ability if its kept AoE. Otherwise PVP will maintain a broken Fear party.

Something needs to be changed before 100% of cyrodiil is NBs spamming fear on eachother while being invisible.

Zielijiek

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

golfer.dub17_ESO

"Use pots to counter one skill."

Lolk.

monkeymystic

Zielijiek wrote: »

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

You're saying that a player HAS to use a special type of pot to be able to see the class spamming OP abilities at all? For 15 seconds?

Does detect pots stop fear spam? No. It lets you see them spam the same OP fear on everyone.

No class should be so strong that you have to use 1 special pot and spam it to see them at all (30% of the time), while they still are free to use OP abilities while being seen (or unseen most of the time).

Pancake-Tragedy

monkeymystic wrote: »

Zielijiek wrote: »

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

You're saying that a player HAS to use a special type of pot to be able to see the class spamming OP abilities at all? For 15 seconds?

Or cast AoEs, throw caltops, use revealing flare or use Radiant Magelight. Hell, sometimes just being next to players pulls me out of cloak. You have choices to deal with it.

monkeymystic wrote: »

Does detect pots stop fear spam? No. It lets you see them spam the same OP fear on everyone.

There are also immovable pots.

monkeymystic wrote: »

No class should be so strong that you have to use 1 special pot and spam it to see them at all (30% of the time), while they still are free to use OP abilities while being seen (or unseen most of the time).

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

monkeymystic

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

[...]

Spoken like a true fearspamming NB.

Decent NBs atleast admit how horribly broken and OP it is atm.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Pancake-Tragedy

monkeymystic wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Spoken like a true fearspamming NB.

Decent NBs atleast admit how horribly broken and OP it is atm.

The only thing broken about fear is causing players to fall through the map, which has been acknowledged and is being dealt with.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

korpz1

Each class has defence mechanisms like Dks have green dragon blood, like sorcs have bolt escape for u s NB's we need fear and cloak because when we get hit we can die easily because once ur stunned or disorientated ur as good as dead unless u can break free, dodge roll and cloak to get away from that then come back at them ambush and get a few stabs in while they are stunned but then they can use GDB or Adriatic spear or bolt escape and using there defence mechanisms to evade the NB, its the art of war sorry but I like it the way it is

nothing2591

learn to smash cc break key faster or fall through the terrain and if ur stam ran out your build sucks.
1. you cant have both perma stealth and infinite dodge rolling at the same time so game is perfectly balanced.
2. im sorry your dk isnt the zerg butcher it once was. guess you're finally gonna have to go get som skill.
3. try paying for a detect potion i mean you get a free tripot from your passives anyway ?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

shane.roberts25b14_ESO

Seriously? Do you have any idea how many times I've had to re-spec, re-equip, and re-learn how to play NB because of the constant bashing we get with the nerf hammer? I mean, honestly... I spend more time in PvE leveling new skills and equipment trees than I do in PvP these days because people like you keep whining about the mean ol' Nightblade that stole your sweetroll!

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Cody

your complaints are:

1. seemingly never ending roll dodge spam

the seemingly endless roll dodge spam comes from the lack of softcaps and regeneration sky rocketing, not NBs. fix that issue, and endless roll dodge spam will heavily decrease(as would damage shield spam, and no Ezareth, I am not calling sorcs OP, sorry for your time having been wasted by following your damage shield word detector:D hehehe)

2. cloak

cloak lasts for 2.5 seconds, can be beaten with flares, magelight, and detection potions. Put in the broken stealth system with the fact cloak does not work 100% of the time(yes I am pulling the "bugged cloak" card. maybe not bugged, but it sure needs a little improvement) you have an ability that is NO WHERE NEAR OP. Nightblades lack any kind of reliable self heal, therefore, our "saved from the brink of death" ability, Is our cloak.

I constantly see people argue that NBs don't need a self heal due to high burst damage. Fine, but why are people COMPLAINING ABOUT THE HIGH BURST DAMAGE THEN? either let NBs have high burst damage and a cloak ability, with no reliable self heals and damage shields,(oh and NBs also lack class based damage shields) or force us to give our cloak up, but give us a means to keep ourselves sustained in combat.

one or the other, pick one plz.

3. Fear

I have fought plenty of players, of all 3 roles, in all kinds of armor and builds, who instantly or almost instantly CC broke my fears and kept the fight going. If you just sit there for 4 seconds after I fear you and do nothing about it, dang right you deserve to die. I have seen PLENTY of full on LA players CC breaking fears without a sweat. I have seen PLENTY of tanks CC break a fear and almost instantly put block back up. Fear IS NOT OP. Again, NBs lack any kind of sustainability unless they are going 2H, resto staff, or if they managed to get thru the long grind to get vigor. NBs have no way to keep themselves alive in combat if they do not dodge and sneak, so i say NBs deserve something to help offset that.

if fear is taking more stamina than it should when CC broke, fix the bug, but the ability itself is fine. I think You just dont like it when someone comes along and stops you from doing your block cast play style.

People constantly tell me "stop playing it like its 1.5" well, same to everyone else as well. there is now a block breaking ability in the game; deal with it. Learn to counter it, It is countered every day.


and yes, I am a NB and it makes my opinion biased. I will not deny it. whether or not you choose to listen to me is your choice alone.

Cody

oh ,and there is no such thing as "fear spam" especially for stamina NBs. once CC broke, one gets immunity to fear for 8 seconds. People with immovable pots or the ability are completely immune to it.


learn to CC break. yes it will cost stamina, but you will adapt.

BrassRazoo

The only thing I don't understand is that a NB can engage in combat from stealth and re-enter stealth / disappear while still in combat.
The stealth / hidden mechanic should work the same as in PvE.
You cannot just pop out and shoot players then instantly vanish again until one of you are dead or you run miles away.

Cody

BrassRazoo wrote: »

The only thing I don't understand is that a NB can engage in combat from stealth and re-enter stealth / disappear while still in combat.
The stealth / hidden mechanic should work the same as in PvE.
You cannot just pop out and shoot players then instantly vanish again until one of you are dead or you run miles away.

a player can be kept out of stealth by an enemy literally miles away, way out of sight.

the stealth mechanic is actually close to broken. the NBs you faced were just lucky.

Waylander

BrassRazoo wrote: »

The only thing I don't understand is that a NB can engage in combat from stealth and re-enter stealth / disappear while still in combat.
The stealth / hidden mechanic should work the same as in PvE.
You cannot just pop out and shoot players then instantly vanish again until one of you are dead or you run miles away.

The night blades you faced are using dark cloak, not returning to stealth.

If they are stamina spec, they can cloak twice maybe 2 - 3 times so 5 or 8 seconds cloaked max. If they cloak they have less magica to use fear.

If they are magica spec they can cloak indefinitely. Magica nightblades dont have the burst of stamina nightblades.

I combat this by holding block and keeping my health up. I drop caltrops. Stealthed nightblades dont like caltrops. Then I hold block and I fight on my caltrops. Most will then troll you with mark target.

Everyone should carry some detect pots for the occasions where the NB trolls you. Without the stealth mechanic the pop in pop out of stealth nightblades struggle to adapt to cloak not saving them.

Zielijiek

monkeymystic wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

[...]

Spoken like a true fearspamming NB.

Decent NBs atleast admit how horribly broken and OP it is atm.

Do yo mean double CC fear? Or just fear in general? Because if you mean fear in general, then you need to learn how to kill a NB in 6 seconds, it's not that hard. You get CC immunity - you know, the swirling circles - you see those right? Right?

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

vichoi

NB are fine with their burst damage, cloak, dodge roll and fear, that's what their class made to be.

However, ppl here are complaint with the bug of fear. Fear makes target fall over the world which need to be fix ASAP.
Also, if you got stun/knock back and fear CC together, you can only break free after you get up from stun and start fear animation, from knockdown, get up, and fear animation, ppl will get killed even they have full stam.

Dodge roll is fine if it's not endless spam, NB and sorc are not tank and escape is their class design. Sorc need shield and BE to escape, NB need dodge roll and cloak.
Ppl complaint about sorc OP because at the end of a large fight, they have to chase those sorc, and only elite sorc will stay alive and they cannot kill them, so they crying for sorc nerf, when all the NB are cloaked in save location and laughing at sorc who got all the hate.

Caza99

I have a few things to say, so this may be a long post ><
1) Magicka NBs are among the weakest class/build combos in the current stat of the game.
2) If the NBs you face can perma roll, spam fear, *still* be able to use cloak and *still* be able to deal tonnes of damage, I want their build.
3) I admit, some of the Nightblade abilities can be classed as 'OP' - fear being one. But the difference between NBs and every other class is that we have no self heal or damage shield. We can only heal through use of a resto staff, potions or stamina heals (Rally or Vigor). We need something to keep enemies off us to prevent damage. (btw, this isn't a complaint, just an observation)
4) I have run with what you call "armies" and never once I have we ever had a Nightblade "run in, dodge roll forever while they spam fear, can't die, then cloak, and maintain untouched, and at the same time dish out insane amounts of damage ".
5) There are COUNTERS to cloak, and counters to fear. You want to counter cloak? Detect potions, Mage Light, Flare. Want to counter fear? Potions, Immovable
6) Dealing massive amounts of damage? With spell damage over 2k, Funnel Health CRITS for less than 4k if the enemy has nirnhoned...but NBs are OP, dealing massive amounts of damage?
7) I think perhaps Mass Hysteria should be taken back to just 2 targets. Though that is the only problem I have with fear. Breaking from fear, in my experience, is no different than breaking any other CC. If you CC break it, you lose stamina. You CC break any other CC, you still lose stamina. You run out of stamina and get fear, you're dead. You run out of stamina and get CC'd by anything else, you're still dead. The only thing that I think should be nerfed about it is that it affect 3 people, which is 1 too many I think.
8) The only defense a NB has comes from weapon skills and dodging, as well as cloak and CC. 3/4 of which, ALL classes have access to.We have no class shield or self heal. We rely on mobility, cloak and CC to survive. If ANY of them were nerfed, magicka NBs would not be a thing in PvP.

golfer.dub17_ESO

Random thoughts on random comments:

"Dragonknights have dragon blood so its all cool." Most overrated skill in the game, to be blunt it's nowhere near as good as people make it out to be. In fact, I'd be so bold as to say it simply sucks period. I constantly hear people say how OP Dragonknights are, I would love to hear them explain why. Reflective Scales and Obsidian Shard are decent skills but they don't define the entire class, and certainly don't make up for our lack of direct damage. No, contrary to popular belief, wrecking blow isn't a dragon knight skill, and I don't see how DK's benefit from it more than any other class.

"You can use caltrops or magelight." I don't have them unlocked (nor would players new to the game), and in the case of caltrops the only way to counter nightblades is to get ganked by them repeatedly in PvP until you eventually rank up enough to unlock their counter? You can't see the flaw there?

"Use detection and immovable potions." What other class requires special items to counter it? And do you not realize how expensive those can be when someone is constantly using them?

"Use Immovable." Well, sucks to replace a valuable skill slot to counter a few moves, but fair enough. Or it would be fair enough if it worked on Fear. Also, you either have it up 24/7 or die at random.

"Get the cheaper Break Free perk in champion points." You're saying to grind out champion points to counter a class. Well now we've just moved well beyond the realm of reason and into sheogorath's residence.

once CC broke, one gets immunity to fear for 8 seconds.

I don't know what it is, but something feels off with NB's CC.

I swear there are times where my character just randomly crouches and faces the ground because of ambush, I break out of that, then get feared right after. At least it feels like it.

Speaking of, how to counter ambush + slash two-shot kills? It feels like even if I do break out of it before he two-shots me he's already taken 75% of my hp and it's just a downwards fight from there.

Bottom line, I'll admit I haven't been paying much attention to the specific rotations being used, but it feels like I have my control taken away from me way more times when fighting Nightblade than any other class, to the point I die before I can even do anything back.

SirAndy

My level 16 NB wood-elf girl, running around naked as always, took out a VR6 last night in a 1v1 only using her bow and my trusted rotation (no fear in any of my slots).

I'm really starting to like what ZOS has done to the NBs ...

iseko

Does not need a nerf. Im sick of bloody nerfs. Everytime a skill is dubbed op they nerf it. 3/4 of the skills are bloody useless at this point. Id wish they would buff other skills instead of nerfing.

OT: nb fear is annoying as *** but not OP. Of you are a stam build you should have enough stam to cc break. If you are a magicka build, dodge roll and cc break should be the only things you use stam for. With the exception of gap closer for dk and temp. Temp has a magicka closer but you can not even call that bugged anymore. It is basically a blood port skill atm... Should change the description accordingly... Seriously wtf... Fix temp skills!

What IS an annoying combo: getting ganked by 2 nb's. One magicka and one stam build. The magicka build keeps you rooted. The stam built does such massive burst it is not even funny. When done correctly they can easily take down 2-3-4 times their numbers. If you are alone... Might as well give up. But again: requires coordination so not OP.

Also: i dont play nb but even i know they have no self heals. One amendment to that: gdb is kind of useless atm. It works best when ure health is in execute range. With all the executes flying around with massive dmg... Kind of pointless. Temp heals got nerfed. Seriously, if you are specced for it you can get breath of life up to 7-8k. If someone is lower health close to you, you dont get the heal. 8k is not even close to some high dmg attacks. Crit rush, execute, cryst frag... The best self heal atm is rally+vigor and some off hand heals from healers in your group. Even healing ward is better. Classes dont need to get nerfed. Temp needs a buff.

And all class ultimates need to get buffed. Un nerf negate. Un nerf standard. *** buff nova ffs! Buff werewolf. Buff bats. Buff the bloody ultimates!! Its been a long time since ive heard someone yell: STANDARD! Run! I dont even play dk. Ive got a vr14 sorc and temp. Atronach is usefull in small 1vX. I use it constantly when im getting ganked by 3-4 people. Negate is... Sometimes useful but mostly not. Overload works well on noobs. Meteor is semi good except for the fact that it just rapes the server. Increase ultimate cost to counter ultimate spamming if necessary. But seriously, when ultimates do less dmg then standard skills... Its *** up

Tldr; stop nerfing and start buffing/fixing!!!

golfer.dub17_ESO

If 3/4th's of the skills are useless what they really means is 1/4th are overpowered.

It's all relative. People complain that you die way too fast in this game, instead of buffing 3/4th's the skills it would make more sense to nerf the remaining 1/4th.

Still, glad someone is sticking up for DK's for once.

Forumer-in-Prison

iseko wrote: »

And all class ultimates need to get buffed. Un nerf negate. Un nerf standard. *** buff nova ffs! Buff werewolf. Buff bats. Buff the bloody ultimates!! Its been a long time since ive heard someone yell: STANDARD! Run!
Tldr; stop nerfing and start buffing/fixing!!!

Agree on un-nerfing ults.

Right now I can run towards a DK tank Standing inside his standard and Fear him out of it.

OH! But...


Don't nerf Fear please. Above is the only useful, unique to my class, thing that I can do in PVP atm.

It's not OP

PeggymoeXD

monkeymystic wrote: »

I think I speak for all when I say that Fear is one of the most overpowered abilities out there (in any MMO).
An instant cast AoE CC that chugs down the stamina of enemies like butter, and this *single* ability is having such a huge impact on ALL PvP on it's own. No other ability comes close in 1.6 (talons is useless now thanks to cheap dodge spam)

Then you combine this with a class that has gotten so many buffs caused by whining of bad players (add all the bug fixing on top of the buffs that made the class even stronger too).
NBs have infinite regen (dodge roll forever is easy) compared to the rest, but the most OP ability combined with all the rest is the ability to get away from situations with cloak (and dont use the bugged card, its still OP as hell).

The fact that NBs can run in a army of players, dodge roll forever while they spam fear, can't die, then cloak, and maintain untouched, and at the same time dish out insane amounts of damage is the definition of OP. Sorcerers are the only class close to this atm, but they don't have the combination of AOE Fear included.

And Talons you say? This ability has been nerfed so hard, and is now useless thanks to buggy 6m radius, and dodge is so easy now that the caster loses in the end.

Change fear to work on 1 target, so its balanced with current stuns. Or make it a 1.5 sec casted ability if its kept AoE. Otherwise PVP will maintain a broken Fear party.

Something needs to be changed before 100% of cyrodiil is NBs spamming fear on eachother while being invisible.

meh I think they're alright. Fear isn't as OP as everyone thinks it is, and this is coming from a stamina Dk, so trust me. I know about fear. Yeah, occasionally it seems to be unbreakable even with plenty of stamina, but I'm pretty sure it's just a bug.

And about nb's who disappear after fear spamming a zerg, for that I have two words..
Detection Potions.

Minnesinger

One of the first things I learnt in a pvp guild was to have either the Arena set or/ and enough stamina to break free often. Why? It is obvious that there are CCs that get you killed. Wonder if OP is playing pve set, full magicka build and not even invest in CP tree´s lower the break free cost. I believe Fear is an awesome skil among many other awesome skills used by various classes.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Mojomonkeyman

Spangla wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Zielijiek wrote: »

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

You're saying that a player HAS to use a special type of pot to be able to see the class spamming OP abilities at all? For 15 seconds?

Does detect pots stop fear spam? No. It lets you see them spam the same OP fear on everyone.

No class should be so strong that you have to use 1 special pot and spam it to see them at all (30% of the time), while they still are free to use OP abilities while being seen (or unseen most of the time).

[...]

Or...history is just repeating itself and it will take the masses of NBs 3-6 months to catch up to the few good players who already found out how strong their class is. This is what happened last year, how long did it take you to realize how strong magicka NB is and adapt back then?

Do you remember the pleasant surprise when testing a "good" magicka build the first time yourself? I do, because you did message me back then, which is highly appreciated btw. It takes a strong character to admit being wrong.

Deja vu, Spangla?

You can say what you want, monkeymystic is a 50/50 wildcard. He really knows about game mechanics, but he tends to hyperbole.

You are doing no good dismissing his posts just because it doesnt match your own experience. My personal opinion is, the most onesided fights I have, which are not going well for me, are against nightblades who know how to abuse cloak, fear & image. So mighty in smallscale.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Spangla

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Zielijiek wrote: »

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

You're saying that a player HAS to use a special type of pot to be able to see the class spamming OP abilities at all? For 15 seconds?

Does detect pots stop fear spam? No. It lets you see them spam the same OP fear on everyone.

No class should be so strong that you have to use 1 special pot and spam it to see them at all (30% of the time), while they still are free to use OP abilities while being seen (or unseen most of the time).

[...]

Or...history is just repeating itself and it will take the masses of NBs 3-6 months to catch up to the few good players who already found out how strong their class is. This is what happened last year, how long did it take you to realize how strong magicka NB is and adapt back then?

Do you remember the pleasant surprise when testing a "good" magicka build the first time yourself? I do, because you did message me back then, which is highly appreciated btw. It takes a strong character to admit being wrong.

Deja vu, Spangla?

You can say what you want, monkeymystic is a 50/50 wildcard. He really knows about game mechanics, but he tends to hyperbole.

You are doing no good dismissing his posts just because it doesnt match your own experience. My personal opinion is, the most onesided fights I have, which are not going well for me, are against nightblades who know how to abuse cloak, fear & image. So mighty in smallscale.

I'll repeat - this is a stamina op thread

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Ffastyl

I have fought these types of Nightblades in 1v1 and, while a protracted fight, win. I win because I know how to counter and/or weather their abilities, Dark Cloak and Fear both, till their resources are exhausted and I unleash my burst combo. Blazing Spear will counter Dark Cloak in the same fashion Caltrops counters stealth. Unstoppable and Unstoppable Potions will counter Fear, but so will good armor. I am going to assume the value of good armor is not known, so let me explicitly state it: good armor makes blocking unnecessary. Stuns, Fear, etc. can be taken without using Break Free thanks to high mitigation. As the Nightblade tires, and opening is found and the burst combo begins. These types of Nightblades wear Medium Armor and typically assume a fight will not last long. One burst combo is all it takes.

Uppercut; Meteor; Radiant Destruction.

Lorkhan

well.... i think fear is really easy to counter. i just break free and get my cc imunity.

Rune_Relic

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1734993/#Comment_1734993

Mojomonkeyman

Spangla wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Zielijiek wrote: »

So, before we continue, what class do you play? Obviously a magic user, not a NB, and obviously not using detect pots.

Can't figure out a weakness (hint: I just gave you a tip)?

You're saying that a player HAS to use a special type of pot to be able to see the class spamming OP abilities at all? For 15 seconds?

Does detect pots stop fear spam? No. It lets you see them spam the same OP fear on everyone.

No class should be so strong that you have to use 1 special pot and spam it to see them at all (30% of the time), while they still are free to use OP abilities while being seen (or unseen most of the time).

[...]

Or...history is just repeating itself and it will take the masses of NBs 3-6 months to catch up to the few good players who already found out how strong their class is. This is what happened last year, how long did it take you to realize how strong magicka NB is and adapt back then?

Do you remember the pleasant surprise when testing a "good" magicka build the first time yourself? I do, because you did message me back then, which is highly appreciated btw. It takes a strong character to admit being wrong.

Deja vu, Spangla?

You can say what you want, monkeymystic is a 50/50 wildcard. He really knows about game mechanics, but he tends to hyperbole.

You are doing no good dismissing his posts just because it doesnt match your own experience. My personal opinion is, the most onesided fights I have, which are not going well for me, are against nightblades who know how to abuse cloak, fear & image. So mighty in smallscale.

I'll repeat - this is a stamina op thread

Honestly, I think you`re wrong here, too. Did you read the title of the thread? I was assuming that`s what the thread is about (strentgh of NB)?!

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]