Sorc 1.6.3 Preview (From Livestream)

Dracane

I'm not happy about lightning splash being our new way to go.
Lightning splash hits for around 660 damage or so, with full Magicka, 2000 magic damage and 70 CP. It tics every 0,5 seconds. So it would increase our DPS by around 1300. But - the spell resistance of enemies, which is very high in 1.6, it might be 1000 more DPS or so depending on your spell pen.

This would bring us to 9000-10000 DPS or so, still 3000-5000 DPS behing other classes

And it only has a 4 meter radius.... this is never going to work. Most pve enemies move, especially bosses. I am not sure, if lightning splash is every going to be viable. I just don't like this ability and will never do as it is now. An increase to the base radius (without that one morph) would help and maybe increase the damage. But whatever....

Septimus_Magna

I think ZOS is forgetting 90% of the sorcerers, those who like to play with LA, destro staff without pets. Dont get me wrong, its good that pet builds are viable but normal sorc dps builds should be on par.

Critting on shields is a good change (for all classes) but also reducing the shields by 15% is reducing the sorcs survivability by far more than 15%. Because sorcs have no self-heal shield stacking is the only way to survive. Right now hardened ward is the only sorc shield against physical attacks like (overpowered) two-handed, bow and dual-wield. With weaker shields and crits on shields LA users will be one or two-shotted by every two-handed ganker hiding in stealth. Now that will certainly make pvp better..

One of the other problems is the lack of spell resistance for LA, how can MA have more spell resistance than a magicka controlling mage? For spell resist: HA > LA > MA and for physical resist: HA > MA > LA, this should not be so hard to balance.

So whats the option for sorcs? Go togglemancer build (no fun at all), go MA two-handed (pretty strong but not fitting for a magicka class like the sorc) or go HA with S&B (low magicka sustain so very low dps and average survivability).

Exstazik

How to prevent bash/charge

Dracane

Another interesting question, is the increase of light armor spell penetration.
What might they do ? There are only 2 options, since the new minor and major buff system does not allow random numbers.

They might give it a major fracture buff, which would gives us around 5500 spell penetration, this would be awesome.

The only other solution (and I think they are doing this) is to change the minor fracture buff. From 960, to 2200 maybe ? Who knows.

ToRelax

Dracane wrote: »

Another interesting question, is the increase of light armor spell penetration.
What might they do ? There are only 2 options, since the new minor and major buff system does not allow random numbers.

They might give it a major fracture buff, which would gives us around 5500 spell penetration, this would be awesome.

The only other solution (and I think they are doing this) is to change the minor fracture buff. From 960, to 2200 maybe ? Who knows.

Or... they could make it similar to how it was pre 1.6, giving a percentage of spell penetration per light armor piece.

Dracane

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Another interesting question, is the increase of light armor spell penetration.
What might they do ? There are only 2 options, since the new minor and major buff system does not allow random numbers.

They might give it a major fracture buff, which would gives us around 5500 spell penetration, this would be awesome.

The only other solution (and I think they are doing this) is to change the minor fracture buff. From 960, to 2200 maybe ? Who knows.

Or... they could make it similar to how it was pre 1.6, giving a percentage of spell penetration per light armor piece.

I think, this is not possible at all. As I said, the minor and major buff system does not allow this. And spell penetration is considered 'Fracture Buff' I am sure, they are not going to change this.

But we'll see. I hope, it's not going to be per piece of light armor, because I don't want to use 7 light armor ^^ But I'm not selfish. I think, they might buff the minor fracture buff.

Digiman

davedwildebeast wrote: »

The shield thing.... I think we got away lightly there... they could have nerfed hardened ward on its own, at least its all damage shields not just ours.

Yeah, was realizing this. They could just shot gunned sorcerers hardened ward as that was the spammable one and it seemed to be the going trend...

Still have to wait and see if any changes will be enough.

ToRelax

Dracane wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Another interesting question, is the increase of light armor spell penetration.
What might they do ? There are only 2 options, since the new minor and major buff system does not allow random numbers.

They might give it a major fracture buff, which would gives us around 5500 spell penetration, this would be awesome.

The only other solution (and I think they are doing this) is to change the minor fracture buff. From 960, to 2200 maybe ? Who knows.

Or... they could make it similar to how it was pre 1.6, giving a percentage of spell penetration per light armor piece.

I think, this is not possible at all. As I said, the minor and major buff system does not allow this. And spell penetration is considered 'Fracture Buff' I am sure, they are not going to change this.

But we'll see. I hope, it's not going to be per piece of light armor, because I don't want to use 7 light armor ^^ But I'm not selfish. I think, they might buff the minor fracture buff.

Well, if it's less than maybe 7-8k Spell resist it's not worth much.

And other things in the game allow Spell penetration like that, too.
Sharpened/Nirnhoned or the Champion System (although this one is a bit special in some cases).

Dracane

ToRelax wrote: »

Well, if it's less than maybe 7-8k Spell resist it's not worth much.

And other things in the game allow Spell penetration like that, too.
Sharpened/Nirnhoned or the Champion System (although this one is a bit special in some cases).

It's never going to be more than 5500 spell penetration for light armor. I would not expect them to to go much further than their former 960 (~1,5 % spell pen)
And things like Champion points passives or traits don't count.

Hridh

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

So whats the option for sorcs? Go togglemancer build (no fun at all), go MA two-handed (pretty strong but not fitting for a magicka class like the sorc) or go HA with S&B (low magicka sustain so very low dps and average survivability).

Don't agree, nothing said at launch Sorcerors should be magika only, esp. with the initial aspect of critical surge. There are enemies in game being 2h with lightning spells, which other class should embody that?

Holycannoli

Exstazik wrote: »

like i said in another thread fellas, they want us to roll DKs and spam GDB for dayz without any of us killing eachother

A lot of us are rerolling templars. My joke templar crafting alt may become my main.

XEVENEX

Kingdinguhling wrote: »

Is there a transcript or a Video of the live stream preview somewhere someone can please post a link or something to either of these.


Just would provide some material to look over if someone could provide it.

http://www.twitch.tv/zenimaxonlinestudios/v/3786429

Danisheraser

ZOS do nothing good for sorcs. They have mega nerfed negate, which may balance it more in PvP, but in PvE we're even more screwed. Does this Eric even think about how sorcs work in PvE? I doubt it.

Aimelin

prototypefb wrote: »

sorcs will have little less burst but will have enough versatility in a blattle to be effective, stop crying and wait for actual patch to kick in.
crystal shards will be as effective as they are now, even more since many ppl will choose force pulse instead of crushing shock.
all ranged interrupts will come at a cost of dps loss, therefore giving you a choice.
channel skills might thrive more than they are now, with spell weaving and crushing shock currently ther eis almost no point using most spells with cast time, that is about to change.

how is it going to change without changing CS cast time ..? ranged interrupts will come at a cost of dps loss ... i don't see a venom arrow nerf, giving me choice? forsake interrupt for another dumb morph that "might" do a little more dmg? they don't even know its bugged atm, lmao

Danisheraser wrote: »

ZOS do nothing good for sorcs. They have mega nerfed negate, which may balance it more in PvP, but in PvE we're even more screwed. Does this Eric even think about how sorcs work in PvE? I doubt it.

how is this nerf to negate a balance for pvp? it's a *** ultimate, not a plastic bubble to have a tea party in, it used to be a good ult to turn a battle, and if you were smart as the enemy, you put your own negate down ...

right now its just a shiney purple bubble that does nothing once its there .... might aswell make it a regular ability then instead of an ultimate

Jahosefat

The lightning splash changes and the assumption that by extending the duration by 4-5 seconds this will become.... useable? or even good? Really? This is going to fix sorc dps? That is the change you came up with?

I just think this and the general attitude portrayed by Eric towards the sorc changes is.... incredibly something.

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Gandogal

Shall be maybe not start whining before we actually see the patch?

i for myself am happy they understood that the pvp issues have lead to problems in the pve balance and are about to adress this. and the ideas sound promising indeed.

lets see how itll play out.

Aimelin

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think ZOS is forgetting 90% of the sorcerers, those who like to play with LA, destro staff without pets. Dont get me wrong, its good that pet builds are viable but normal sorc dps builds should be on par.

Critting on shields is a good change (for all classes) but also reducing the shields by 15% is reducing the sorcs survivability by far more than 15%. Because sorcs have no self-heal shield stacking is the only way to survive. Right now hardened ward is the only sorc shield against physical attacks like (overpowered) two-handed, bow and dual-wield. With weaker shields and crits on shields LA users will be one or two-shotted by every two-handed ganker hiding in stealth. Now that will certainly make pvp better..

One of the other problems is the lack of spell resistance for LA, how can MA have more spell resistance than a magicka controlling mage? For spell resist: HA > LA > MA and for physical resist: HA > MA > LA, this should not be so hard to balance.

So whats the option for sorcs? Go togglemancer build (no fun at all), go MA two-handed (pretty strong but not fitting for a magicka class like the sorc) or go HA with S&B (low magicka sustain so very low dps and average survivability).

how is its HA > MA > LA ?

how is METAL ARMOR giving you MORE protection from fire & lightning ??? wut ???

if anything they should've made LA 2/4 of HA not 1/4 or take MA down to 2/4

Dracane

Jahosefat wrote: »

The lightning splash changes and the assumption that by extending the duration by 4-5 seconds this will become.... useable? or even good? Really? This is going to fix sorc dps? That is the change you came up with?

I just think this and the general attitude portrayed by Eric towards the sorc changes is.... incredibly something.

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

I'm thinking the same. Lightning splash will remain useless and nobody is going to take it. Nobody wants a 4 meter radius low damage AoE.

And please don't leave, I need you. How about 3) ?

rfennell_ESO

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Who would notice a sorc boycott? or even care?

Snit

Danisheraser wrote: »

ZOS do nothing good for sorcs. They have mega nerfed negate...

That nerf, at least, I agree with. And that's speaking as someone who has had it on a bar since early access. Negate was goofy powerful, in both PvP and PvE. There's a reason some people called sorcs 'Negate Monkeys.'

Let's just hope this latest round doesn't just make us all-monkey

Snit

Lightning Splash Question for fellow sorcs: When we consider all the bosses where DPS matters, how many will Lightning Splash effect? Specifically, how many of them stand still for at least 10 seconds at a time?

I haven't done enough PvE lately to make a complete list. Let's limit it to veteran and trial bosses. Anyone want to grab that?

XEVENEX

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Who would notice a sorc boycott? or even care?

Dats messed up yo.

Jahosefat

Dracane wrote: »

And please don't leave, I need you. How about 3) ?

Thank you, I actually do appreciate that comment and your other comments on the sorc subject

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Who would notice a sorc boycott? or even care?

I'm feeling more of a sorc "protest". Lets brainstorm, what is the most annoying thing a large group of angry and frustrated sorcs could do? This would probably play out best in Cyr where we could have a "mass trolling". I'm beginning to envision a herd of bolt escaping sorcs, all stacked with every shield in the game trolling the heck out of something...

rfennell_ESO

XEVENEX wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Who would notice a sorc boycott? or even care?

Dats messed up yo.

Yes it certainly is.

Aimelin

Jahosefat wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

And please don't leave, I need you. How about 3) ?

Thank you, I actually do appreciate that comment and your other comments on the sorc subject

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

It's getting about the time to decide if 1) need to roll an alt 2) move on to another game until this gets settled out (if ever) 3) organize a sorc boycott or protest.

Who would notice a sorc boycott? or even care?

I'm feeling more of a sorc "protest". Lets brainstorm, what is the most annoying thing a large group of angry and frustrated sorcs could do? This would probably play out best in Cyr where we could have a "mass trolling". I'm beginning to envision a herd of bolt escaping sorcs, all stacked with every shield in the game trolling the heck out of something...

take down outer wall from a keep, take a zerg of sorcs & just bolt escape around the inner keep ... let em waste time trying to kill us going in circles

Sacadon

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

I felt like my question was a good one, and went unanswered and instead they made fun of my name

Edit: to clarify, I asked for a ranged instant-cast single target class ability. Eric replied with: "Well you have the instant proc cast for crystal fragments"

Snit wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

I felt like my question was a good one, and went unanswered and instead they made fun of my name

Edit: to clarify, I asked for a ranged instant-class single target class ability. Eric replied with: "Well you have the instant proc cast for crystal fragments"

Well, he did answer it, it was just "No."

And your name is awesome.

^^

Snit

Jahosefat wrote: »

I'm feeling more of a sorc "protest". Lets brainstorm, what is the most annoying thing a large group of angry and frustrated sorcs could do? This would probably play out best in Cyr where we could have a "mass trolling". I'm beginning to envision a herd of bolt escaping sorcs, all stacked with every shield in the game trolling the heck out of something...

This is going to be a boring counter-suggestion, but I think we might be better off just testing the changes and posting what we think. I just haven't found actions designed to *** people off to be effective at doing anything more than exactly that.

Dracane

Snit wrote: »

Lightning Splash Question for fellow sorcs: When we consider all the bosses where DPS matters, how many will Lightning Splash effect? Specifically, how many of them stand still for at least 10 seconds at a time?

I haven't done enough PvE lately to make a complete list. Let's limit it to veteran and trial bosses. Anyone want to grab that?

When I was in bed yesterday evening, I was asking myself the same question and went through all the important veteran dungeons in my Imagination. (I can't remember the names of each boss, so I'm going to replace it with a fancy title)

Spindleclutch:

Bloodspawn- is going to stand still pretty much all the time, it'll work.

Praxim- You might be able to hit even more than 1 target here, but they move with the tank. So success is very unlikely here. Praxim himself moves a bit.

3 flesh atronachs- should work, they don't move a lot.

Minor vampire boss- he moves, does not work

End vampire boss- he also moves and teleport strikes around. When he is recovering his health, he stands still. So sometimes it can work.

Darkshade Caverns:

Fire tornado boss thing- he is moving a bit, but is standing still when he does his fire tornado. Should work

-Hivelord: Works, he's standing still quiet a lot.

-Giant Netch: Works. He is invulnerable, until he goes to the ground and will be stunned then.

-Engine Guardian: No way, he never stands still.

Banished cells:

-Giant daedroth: nope, he moves all the time.

-Guardian girl which spawns daedra and fancy energy orbs: No, she moves all the time and even disappears. (If you're exploiting the bug, she's standing still)

-Rillis: He's changing locations, but is standing still at this location. It'll work most of the time.

Wayrest Sewers:

-Giant Harvester: She's standing still, it will work.

-Melee guy who spawns fire: Nah, he's moving a lot, does not work.

-Lich: Yes, he's standing still.

-The 2 sisters: Uhm I think, the archer girl stands still and the male is not moving that much. Should work.

Fungal Grotto:

-Giant Spider: Wasn't fighting her that much, but she is moving sometimes.

-Overpowered woman: She is moving most of the time. It's not going to work here.

-Weird Spider woman who has 3 spiders: She is standing still, it will work.

-Spiderdaedra (Mephala's spawn is her name I believe): If you're exploiting the bug, she is standing still. Otherwise, she is moving a lot. So it'll not work in a fair fight.

-Unnecessary guy, who is draining your Magicka: He's standing still.

-Daedric Priestress: She's moving and is standing still sometimes. Should work during the DPS phase.


Crypt of Hearts:

Spider Daedra: She's moving and is standing still sometimes. I think, it should work here.

Skelett Atronach: He's standing still. It works.

Fragile Lich: He's standing still all the time.

Nerien'Eth (How could anyone forget his name): He's blinking around a lot. But there are many opportunities, where he is standing still. It works.


Any other important dungeons ?

Jahosefat

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

I'm feeling more of a sorc "protest". Lets brainstorm, what is the most annoying thing a large group of angry and frustrated sorcs could do? This would probably play out best in Cyr where we could have a "mass trolling". I'm beginning to envision a herd of bolt escaping sorcs, all stacked with every shield in the game trolling the heck out of something...

This is going to be a boring counter-suggestion, but I think we might be better off just testing the changes and posting what we think. I just haven't found actions designed to *** people off to be effective at doing anything more than exactly that.

This is more of a joke that is intended to loom in the minds of the devs. Other games (like eve online) have had mass in-game protests that were both fun and got a message across to devs.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Dracane wrote: »

Any other important dungeons ?

City of Ash:
First boss - works more or less
The stomping daedroth guy - works, not moving at all
Ash Titan - works
Valky Skoria - works

Aetherian Archive:
- works on every boss, at least for 1.5

Hel Ra:
- Warrior a bit difficult, but works for the last part of the fight where dps is important