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1.6 Shield stacking, infinity Ressources
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Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well as i can see nothing is really working as intended.
You´re able to hold up everything, dps/heal/defense, no matter what your enemy does.
I can run full Heavy Armor and nearly don´t run OOM while spamming my skills.
This is gamebreaking!R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -1 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.4 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
I did a reload ui right before that stack. Sorry bud but you really need to change that "LOL" to an "Awesome!". Otherwise I'll be forced to think you meant "LOL That is so OP!". Thanks!
Seriously, if you can't figure it out by looking at my character then I might have to "LOL" your comment! >:(
It's fun to give feedback on forum posts, eh?4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
My guess is on: healing ward, dampen magic, dk class shield, 100%hp shield on take flight thingy
Maybe something like whitestrake or undaunted bastion too.Edited by Derra on 29 January 2015 16:12<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
I did a reload ui right before that stack. Sorry bud but you really need to change that "LOL" to an "Awesome!". Otherwise I'll be forced to think you meant "LOL That is so OP!". Thanks!
Seriously, if you can't figure it out by looking at my character then I might have to "LOL" your comment! >:(
It's fun to give feedback on forum posts, eh?
Reload ui doesnt work. You obviously don't understand how it works.
It's really simple. List your shields and their value. You wont do it because you know it's hogwash.Edited by XEVENEX on 29 January 2015 16:412 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭I don't think any skill should be able to be spammed at all. Used often yes, but this game clearly needs to look over the spammability of certain skills.
I feel gameplay in general is much about hitting the same skill over and over. There needs to be some window of weakness between the use of defensive skills, especially powerful ones.
There also needs to be some window of recharge to offensive skills also. I see a lot of people not even using light and heavy attacks. Just spamming their favorite DPS skill over and over.
Maybe they could introduce Food, Glyphs, Traits, Gear bonuses and passives, etc to reduce timers slightly for people who want to use their skill more frequent?Edited by tunepunk on 29 January 2015 16:190 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
My guess is on: healing ward, dampen magic, dk class shield, 100%hp shield on take flight thingy
Maybe something like whitestrake or undaunted bastion too.
Close!
There are 3 suggestions wrong however but good great guesses. Edited by Lionxoft on 29 January 2015 16:160 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Right now you if you focus all your resources into defense you can typically keep yourself from dying even from multiple people. However when you try to both defend and offend you will quickly die.
What is this guys threat level like this? From what I see he is not dying but he is also not killing.Edited by Armitas on 29 January 2015 16:20Retired.
Nord mDK9 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just compared with Iya on pts nb and other classes costs. Something about the nightblade magica base costs of funnel health without any gear is definetly not in line with sorcerer, dk and templar anytime nukes.
Edit: We just noticed the dmg on lavawhip is completely laughable too. In comparison veiled strike 2800 magic dmg naked all points in magica. Lavawhip 1300 dmg with the same stats.Edited by Derra on 29 January 2015 16:36<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭Right now you if you focus all your resources into defense you can typically keep yourself from dying even from multiple people. However when you try to both defend and offend you will quickly die.
What is this guys threat level like this? From what I see he is not dying but he is also not killing.
armitas, this is my exact build from live. Its full damage spell power glyphs and everything and Im able to tank like that.
even if I dps my overall magicka DPS doesnt do anything to shield (Im built DPS in this video spell power and all)
and as you can see for most part harness alone is tanking that damage.Edited by Araxleon on 29 January 2015 16:290 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Right now you if you focus all your resources into defense you can typically keep yourself from dying even from multiple people. However when you try to both defend and offend you will quickly die.
What is this guys threat level like this? From what I see he is not dying but he is also not killing.
What is the threat level of these two people trying to kill him, once they're both out of magicka/stamina?
How much skill does pressing one button (not even blocking) really take?
What are the counters to this gameplay?
There's some questions for you.Edited by DDuke on 29 January 2015 16:292 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭they shouldn't be "must have" skills
Damage shields will continue to be must-haves as long as the sneak damage is as ridiculously high it is now.Edited by Isbilen on 29 January 2015 16:334 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭Right now you if you focus all your resources into defense you can typically keep yourself from dying even from multiple people. However when you try to both defend and offend you will quickly die.
What is this guys threat level like this? From what I see he is not dying but he is also not killing.
What is the threat level of these two people trying to kill him, once they're both out of magicka/stamina?
How much skill does pressing one button (not even blocking) really take?
What are the counters to this gameplay?
There's some questions for you.
I understand and agree with your point, but the problem is not the shield. The problem is infinite resources. (Hes using a shield that gives him magicka, too.)
A shield based defense actually requires you to pay attention. Holding block and stacking mitigation does not.Edited by XEVENEX on 29 January 2015 16:383 -
Iyas✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just compared with Iya on pts nb and other classes costs. Something about the nightblade magica base costs of funnel health without any gear is definetly not in line with sorcerer, dk and templar anytime nukes.
Edit: We just noticed the dmg on lavawhip is completely laughable too. In comparison veiled strike 2800 magic dmg naked all points in magica. Lavawhip 1300 dmg with the same stats.
this...2 -
tunepunk✭✭✭✭✭What is the threat level of these two people trying to kill him, once they're both out of magicka/stamina?
How much skill does pressing one button (not even blocking) really take?
What are the counters to this gameplay?
There's some questions for you.
The only counter to this gameplay is waiting for more people to show up to out DPS the Shields?
Move on kill someone else?
A good idea would be to have all DoT type skills and effects to bypass shields (which they might do already, not sure)
If I'm not misstaking...
Skills like Entropy, Soul strike, soul trap, bypass blocking. Also bypasses reflective scales, and defensive posture, from what i know since they are not projectiles. Maybe they should bypass damage shields also? That would be a good counter for people trying to keep up damage shields, but i doubt they do enough damage to outdamage any form of healing or health potion?0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just compared with Iya on pts nb and other classes costs. Something about the nightblade magica base costs of funnel health without any gear is definetly not in line with sorcerer, dk and templar anytime nukes.
Edit: We just noticed the dmg on lavawhip is completely laughable too. In comparison veiled strike 2800 magic dmg naked all points in magica. Lavawhip 1300 dmg with the same stats.
And lava whip should do the same damage as veiled strike because? As lots of DKs like to say, they're a tank class, why should their damage output be the same as a dps class considering all their inherent survivability skills?5 -
Merrak✭✭✭
Sorry, but I agree with @XEVENEX here. Having two people stage a full Magicka based DPS attack on one tank who is only spamming a Magicka Absorb shield only proves that it is working as intended. In a real setting, this isn't an issue.
Araxleon you're a very skilled PvP player and it's compounded by the fact that you're sporting some of the best gear in the game (5 piece vr12 Warlock). The problem is that they are not putting out enough dps, not the shield, IMO. DPS seems low overall.
I know Araxleon is a good player, but what he's doing in this video requires absolutely zero skill
It shouldn't be possible to tank two people like that & remain at 100% magicka while they go completely out of magicka, that's just stupid.
I'd like to see this tested with other class shields and against stamina builds. I have a feeling it's just as broken.
Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant10 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
I did a reload ui right before that stack. Sorry bud but you really need to change that "LOL" to an "Awesome!". Otherwise I'll be forced to think you meant "LOL That is so OP!". Thanks!
Seriously, if you can't figure it out by looking at my character then I might have to "LOL" your comment! >:(
It's fun to give feedback on forum posts, eh?
Reload ui doesnt work. You obviously don't understand how it works.
It's really simple. List your shields and their value. You wont do it because you know it's hogwash.
You actually think it's "hogwash"? Anyone that understands the recent changes to the game will understand how and why this works. Just because you're unable to figure it out doesn't mean that you should categorize it as "hyperbole" or "hogwash".
Just to tickle your curiosity I took the scratch formula from when I theory crafted this... Funny that a theory crafting actually turned out to be correct.
(h*.30)+(o*2)+h+z0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry, but I agree with @XEVENEX here. Having two people stage a full Magicka based DPS attack on one tank who is only spamming a Magicka Absorb shield only proves that it is working as intended. In a real setting, this isn't an issue.
Araxleon you're a very skilled PvP player and it's compounded by the fact that you're sporting some of the best gear in the game (5 piece vr12 Warlock). The problem is that they are not putting out enough dps, not the shield, IMO. DPS seems low overall.
I know Araxleon is a good player, but what he's doing in this video requires absolutely zero skill
It shouldn't be possible to tank two people like that & remain at 100% magicka while they go completely out of magicka, that's just stupid.
I'd like to see this tested with other class shields and against stamina builds. I have a feeling it's just as broken.
you guys need to realize IM NOT A TANK IM BUILT DPS. 1 skills (harness magicka alone) gives me that much defense.
Im built for spell power...
This is the standard shield for magicka DPS4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Sorry, but I agree with @XEVENEX here. Having two people stage a full Magicka based DPS attack on one tank who is only spamming a Magicka Absorb shield only proves that it is working as intended. In a real setting, this isn't an issue.
Araxleon you're a very skilled PvP player and it's compounded by the fact that you're sporting some of the best gear in the game (5 piece vr12 Warlock). The problem is that they are not putting out enough dps, not the shield, IMO. DPS seems low overall.
I know Araxleon is a good player, but what he's doing in this video requires absolutely zero skill
It shouldn't be possible to tank two people like that & remain at 100% magicka while they go completely out of magicka, that's just stupid.
I'd like to see this tested with other class shields and against stamina builds. I have a feeling it's just as broken.
I hope you realize you're defending a skill that grants invincibility against all magicka builds (probably over 50% of population).5 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Right now you if you focus all your resources into defense you can typically keep yourself from dying even from multiple people. However when you try to both defend and offend you will quickly die.
What is this guys threat level like this? From what I see he is not dying but he is also not killing.
What is the threat level of these two people trying to kill him, once they're both out of magicka/stamina?
How much skill does pressing one button (not even blocking) really take?
What are the counters to this gameplay?
There's some questions for you.
There is no skill to this kind of gameplay, it's basically wear your enemy out and then kill them, if possible. In my mind PvP has always been a resource war rather than a dps war...with the exception of gank builds.
I don't know what the exact counter is, but traditionally it revolves around figuring out his resource weakness and focusing on that. At least in 1.5 you could either be strongly defensive via Magicka, Stamina, or Blocking. In 1.5 all that was needed is to identify which resource is the weakest link and focus on depleting it. If there is no counter we certainly have a problem, but it may be too early to give up hope on a counter.
There are too many unknowns in my mind to comment on whether we have a problem here or whether it's acceptable, but at least in concept this is happening live right now. We have people that are unkillable, but not themselves killers. The caveat gives it some acceptability and tolerance, but there are of course limits to that acceptability and tolerance as well.
I definitely understand where you are coming from on trying to overcome shield stacking and you are right about it, however the meta toward defense comes from instaganks, lethal arrow spam, and CC/debuffs attached to strong damagers in regular rotation, such as lethal arrow and to a lesser extent shards to name a few. These CC/debuff attached regular damagers cause any point in time to carry a CC/debuff that is approaching any unblocked or unshielded visible player. This consolidation of CC/debuffs into damagers is necessary due to the 5 skill limitation in each line, but it also causes blocking and shielding to be necessary at all times as a single heal debuff, or knock down, which is at anytime certainly approaching, is instant doom in the front lines.
I want to see a push toward more skilled gameplay but I think it needs to come in a package that addresses all 3 of those components.
TL/DR I don't mean to give this blanket approval. I'm stuck in the middle till I know more.Edited by Armitas on 29 January 2015 17:09Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
XEVENEX✭✭✭✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
I did a reload ui right before that stack. Sorry bud but you really need to change that "LOL" to an "Awesome!". Otherwise I'll be forced to think you meant "LOL That is so OP!". Thanks!
Seriously, if you can't figure it out by looking at my character then I might have to "LOL" your comment! >:(
It's fun to give feedback on forum posts, eh?
Reload ui doesnt work. You obviously don't understand how it works.
It's really simple. List your shields and their value. You wont do it because you know it's hogwash.
You actually think it's "hogwash"? Anyone that understands the recent changes to the game will understand how and why this works. Just because you're unable to figure it out doesn't mean that you should categorize it as "hyperbole" or "hogwash".
Just to tickle your curiosity I took the scratch formula from when I theory crafted this... Funny that a theory crafting actually turned out to be correct.
(h*.30)+(o*2)+h+z
You're not tickling anything. It takes twice as much energy to refute BS as it does to create it, so I'm going to ignore you until you post real numbers.
Lets pretend I believe you for a moment. By the time you stack that much, you've lost your ultimate and your first shield has nearly expired. You're also absolutely 0 threat to anyone while youre sitting there playing with your shields, and your build will have crap DPS.Edited by XEVENEX on 29 January 2015 17:143 -
Grim13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tried to gank a sorcerer yesterday... I couldn't get past his damage shield before he killed me. Now, I'm not saying that I was expecting a one shot kill, nothing of the sort, but you'd at least figure I could force him to reapply it... no.
The game's a joke. 1.6 isn't the game saver many of us had hoped it would be. If anything, it's worse.Edited by Grim13 on 29 January 2015 17:067 -
Merrak✭✭✭
And you need to realize that you are using a spell for its intended purpose. You will get slaughtered the moment a Stam build approaches you, which by my last account and aside from healers, is 80% of the DPS crowd in Cyro.you guys need to realize IM NOT A TANK IM BUILT DPS. 1 skills (harness magicka alone) gives me that much defense.
Im built for spell power...
This is the standard shield for magicka DPSMerrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant6 -
Merrak✭✭✭
Over 50% of the population? Interesting. I know exactly what I am defending. I'm defending the fact that noone (even a silly PvE'er like myself) would stand here and watch some someone spam a Magicka absorb shield over and over and keep trying to attack with Magicka attacks.I hope you realize you're defending a skill that grants invincibility against all magicka builds (probably over 50% of population).Merrak | Templar Main
The Descendants | NA Server | Daggerfall Covenant3 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not at hyperbole at all. The fact you think it's hyperbole means that you understand little of how the mechanics of the game work and the changes that 1.6 has made.
GG. Have fun out there.
PS Screenshot below. I swapped and upgraded some of my armor to legendary quality and it's popped me over 90k shield strength. I expect you to swiftly change that "LOL" to an "Awesome". Thanks!
List each shield you used with screen shots of the tooltip values. The API for reading shield values is very very sketchy so your addon can not be trusted.
I will then happily change my LOL to Awesome.
I did a reload ui right before that stack. Sorry bud but you really need to change that "LOL" to an "Awesome!". Otherwise I'll be forced to think you meant "LOL That is so OP!". Thanks!
Seriously, if you can't figure it out by looking at my character then I might have to "LOL" your comment! >:(
It's fun to give feedback on forum posts, eh?
Reload ui doesnt work. You obviously don't understand how it works.
It's really simple. List your shields and their value. You wont do it because you know it's hogwash.
You actually think it's "hogwash"? Anyone that understands the recent changes to the game will understand how and why this works. Just because you're unable to figure it out doesn't mean that you should categorize it as "hyperbole" or "hogwash".
Just to tickle your curiosity I took the scratch formula from when I theory crafted this... Funny that a theory crafting actually turned out to be correct.
(h*.30)+(o*2)+h+z
You're not tickling anything. It takes twice as much energy to refute BS as it does to create it, so I'm going to ignore you until you post real numbers.
Lets pretend I believe you for a moment. By the time you stack that much, you've lost your ultimate and your first shield has nearly expired. You're also absolutely 0 threat to anyone while your sitting there playing with your shields, and your build will have crap DPS.
I gave you the formula even... All you had to do was input values and you'll see the light!!
It doesn't take long to stack a few shields especially when they- well, don't want to give it all away.
Do you really believe that a build can't have high damage output alongside survivability and sustain?2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And you need to realize that you are using a spell for its intended purpose. You will get slaughtered the moment a Stam build approaches you, which by my last account and aside from healers, is 80% of the DPS crowd in Cyro.you guys need to realize IM NOT A TANK IM BUILT DPS. 1 skills (harness magicka alone) gives me that much defense.
Im built for spell power...
This is the standard shield for magicka DPS
He's dueled THE BEST (in my opinion) stam build player in the entire game and came out on top with the final results across numerous duels.0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry, but I agree with @XEVENEX here. Having two people stage a full Magicka based DPS attack on one tank who is only spamming a Magicka Absorb shield only proves that it is working as intended. In a real setting, this isn't an issue.
Araxleon you're a very skilled PvP player and it's compounded by the fact that you're sporting some of the best gear in the game (5 piece vr12 Warlock). The problem is that they are not putting out enough dps, not the shield, IMO. DPS seems low overall.
I know Araxleon is a good player, but what he's doing in this video requires absolutely zero skill
It shouldn't be possible to tank two people like that & remain at 100% magicka while they go completely out of magicka, that's just stupid.
I'd like to see this tested with other class shields and against stamina builds. I have a feeling it's just as broken.
you guys need to realize IM NOT A TANK IM BUILT DPS. 1 skills (harness magicka alone) gives me that much defense.
Im built for spell power...
This is the standard shield for magicka DPS
It's like they've never seen you PvP. I don't think they understand the amount of sustain and burst.
*Mob Grabs Pitchforks*
"We demand video!"0 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭
And you need to realize that you are using a spell for its intended purpose. You will get slaughtered the moment a Stam build approaches you, which by my last account and aside from healers, is 80% of the DPS crowd in Cyro.you guys need to realize IM NOT A TANK IM BUILT DPS. 1 skills (harness magicka alone) gives me that much defense.
Im built for spell power...
This is the standard shield for magicka DPS
ummm 1 skill shouldnt make you immune to magicka attacks I could tank up to 4 magicka DPS builds.
If you like I can make a the vid using same shields on bow its no diffrent.2
