1.6 Shield stacking, infinity Ressources

Joy_Division · January 2015

So two players are just sitting there spamming magic attacks against a magicka shield that replenishes resources and now 1.6 is broken?

You couldn't kill someone in 1.5 doing this either...

Why don't we wait until after 48 hours of abilities and builds we know nothing about and actually, you know, observe and analyze actual combat in Cyrodiil?

NotSo · January 2015

Merrak wrote:

Then people would go back to complaining about block casting, because everyone would cast the bubble while blocking.

Yeah but with the increase to stamina cost of blocking and if they're already hiding behind damage shields, should be a lot easier on a dps standpoint.

Merrak · January 2015

NotSo wrote: »

Merrak wrote:

Then people would go back to complaining about block casting, because everyone would cast the bubble while blocking.

Yeah but with the increase to stamina cost of blocking and if they're already hiding behind damage shields, should be a lot easier on a dps standpoint.

So, it's ok to live for a little while, as a DPS can still kill you. Got it.

Note To Self: Tanks not important in PvP

DDuke · January 2015

Domander wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

I don't care about my damage either, and I don't care if they nerf stacking. I care that this is painting a false picture for people who don't know any better. There is already enough whining about shields.

For a damn good reason.

There's also enough people trying to defend them, just because they themselves use them all the time.

I'm one-shotting people all the time in Cyrodiil. 3k Health? Boom, you're dead no matter who you are, or how good you are.

Is it fun for me? Sure.
Is it fair & good for the game? Nope, I don't think so...

Same with damage shields, they need adjustment so they aren't the thing literally almost everybody uses.

This is like complaining that everybody uses heals.

Yes, it is. You have a sharp eye, sir/madam.

XEVENEX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Same with damage shields, they need adjustment so they aren't the thing literally almost everybody uses.

Everyone uses jump in mario brothers. Everyone uses potions in ESO. This is a terrible argument for a nerf. It is intended to be an active, reactive defensive ability for an active, reactive combat game.

And that is a terrible comparison.

There are other things you can do in this "active, reactive combat game".
Have you bound a key yet for roll dodge?
I hear blocking is also a nice reactive defense ability.
Cloak used to be decent also for avoiding damage. When it still worked, that is.
The new DW cloak will be used for defense.

There are many alternatives you might not have considered.

Also, having high defense has to come at the cost of offense, just like in pretty much every other MMO(RPG) out there. In ESO, this does not happen, and there is no reason not to slot a heal/dmg shield (you'd just be gimping yourself).

Joy_Division · January 2015

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Just compared with Iya on pts nb and other classes costs. Something about the nightblade magica base costs of funnel health without any gear is definetly not in line with sorcerer, dk and templar anytime nukes.

Edit: We just noticed the dmg on lavawhip is completely laughable too. In comparison veiled strike 2800 magic dmg naked all points in magica. Lavawhip 1300 dmg with the same stats.

And lava whip should do the same damage as veiled strike because? As lots of DKs like to say, they're a tank class, why should their damage output be the same as a dps class considering all their inherent survivability skills?

1. There is no tank class in ESO.
2. Not "lots" of DKs like to say that.
3. NB is not "the" DPS class in ESO.
4. NB has very good survival skills - according to your logic these should be nerfed but I don't hear you calling for it.
5. Both abilities are each class's respective burst damage abilities. They should have commensurate effects if their costs are the same.

Varicite · January 2015

Domander wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

I don't care about my damage either, and I don't care if they nerf stacking. I care that this is painting a false picture for people who don't know any better. There is already enough whining about shields.

For a damn good reason.

There's also enough people trying to defend them, just because they themselves use them all the time.

I'm one-shotting people all the time in Cyrodiil. 3k Health? Boom, you're dead no matter who you are, or how good you are.

Is it fun for me? Sure.
Is it fair & good for the game? Nope, I don't think so...

Same with damage shields, they need adjustment so they aren't the thing literally almost everybody uses.

This is like complaining that everybody uses heals.

It would be exactly like that if one could easily spam heals w/out running out of resources or health while being DPS'd full bore.

So basically, it's not really like that at all.

Also, Healing Ward. Why choose? : D

XEVENEX · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

There are other things you can do in this "active, reactive combat game".
Have you bound a key yet for roll dodge?
I hear blocking is also a nice reactive defense ability.
Cloak used to be decent also for avoiding damage. When it still worked, that is.

Stamina
Stamina
Nightblade

Im a Sorc. Shields are my defense. I don't hold block or stack mitigation. I have to pay attention cause if my shield goes down I explode. You start crying for shield nerfs and I'm going to have to debate that.

Domander · January 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

I don't care about my damage either, and I don't care if they nerf stacking. I care that this is painting a false picture for people who don't know any better. There is already enough whining about shields.

For a damn good reason.

There's also enough people trying to defend them, just because they themselves use them all the time.

I'm one-shotting people all the time in Cyrodiil. 3k Health? Boom, you're dead no matter who you are, or how good you are.

Is it fun for me? Sure.
Is it fair & good for the game? Nope, I don't think so...

Same with damage shields, they need adjustment so they aren't the thing literally almost everybody uses.

This is like complaining that everybody uses heals.

It would be exactly like that if one could easily spam heals w/out running out of resources or health while being DPS'd full bore.

So basically, it's not really like that at all.

Also, Healing Ward. Why choose? : D

Damage to health takes into account armor/resists

Shields do not, but shields also go on top of health.. seems like a good trade off.

both stop you from being killed, so I say it's like complaining about everyone using heals.

In this new system if you have high magicka regen, are you sure you can't spam heals and not run out of resources?

DDuke · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There are other things you can do in this "active, reactive combat game".
Have you bound a key yet for roll dodge?
I hear blocking is also a nice reactive defense ability.
Cloak used to be decent also for avoiding damage. When it still worked, that is.

Stamina
Stamina
Nightblade

Im a Sorc. Shields are my defense. I don't hold block or stack mitigation. I have to pay attention cause if my shield goes down I explode. You start crying for shield nerfs and I'm going to have to debate that.

Last I checked, you could block & dodge roll as a magicka user as well.

No one is saying you shouldn't be able to shield up, if you want to build & play defensively then by all means do so.

What I don't want to see is that playstyle forced on others as well.

It should come at the cost of your dps, if you decided to play a full healer character capable of outhealing/shielding multiple sources of damage.

If you wanted to be a good dps, then the shields should be significantly less potent as well.

Easy to way to make this happen: separate spell dmg & healing, make dmg shields/heals scale from +healing.

Want to be "decent" in both? Go for it.
Want to be pure dps? Absolutely.
Want to be a healer? Feel free to do so.

To compensate for this, I'd like to see more defensive abilities for specs that aren't focused on healing/dmg shields (e.g. sorcs have streak, NBs have cloak, DKs have reflect) and semi-defensive abilities that would feel good in a pure DPS build (e.g. the new DW cloak).

I also wouldn't mind if they gave people 10X the health they currently do, so it's not about "one shotting" people (which I also disagree with).

Domander · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There are other things you can do in this "active, reactive combat game".
Have you bound a key yet for roll dodge?
I hear blocking is also a nice reactive defense ability.
Cloak used to be decent also for avoiding damage. When it still worked, that is.

Stamina
Stamina
Nightblade

Im a Sorc. Shields are my defense. I don't hold block or stack mitigation. I have to pay attention cause if my shield goes down I explode. You start crying for shield nerfs and I'm going to have to debate that.

Last I checked, you could block & dodge roll as a magicka user as well.

No one is saying you shouldn't be able to shield up, if you want to build & play defensively then by all means do so.

What I don't want to see is that playstyle forced on others as well.

It should come at the cost of your dps, if you decided to play a full healer character capable of outhealing/shielding multiple sources of damage.

If you wanted to be a good dps, then the shields should be significantly less potent as well.

Easy to way to make this happen: separate spell dmg & healing, make dmg shields/heals scale from +healing.

Want to be "decent" in both? Go for it.
Want to be pure dps? Absolutely.
Want to be a healer? Feel free to do so.

To compensate for this, I'd like to see more defensive abilities for specs that aren't focused on healing/dmg shields (e.g. sorcs have streak, NBs have cloak, DKs have reflect) and semi-defensive abilities that would feel good in a pure DPS build (e.g. the new DW cloak).

I also wouldn't mind if they gave people 10X the health they currently do, so it's not about "one shotting" people (which I also disagree with).

Sorc class shield uses max magicka (spell damage does not increase shield)
DK shield uses max health
Templar shield is a % of health

Varicite · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

Im a Sorc. Shields are my defense. I don't hold block or stack mitigation. I have to pay attention cause if my shield goes down I explode. You start crying for shield nerfs and I'm going to have to debate that.

I'm a NB. Cloaking is my defense, but it doesn't work correctly and never has. I hold block and stack mitigation because my class doesn't have shields, unlike every single other class in the game.

I have to pay attention cause if I get hit at all I explode.

You start crying about shield nerfs and I'm going to have to debate that.

; )

onlinegamer1 · January 2015

Just allow Armor/Spell Penetration to penetrate shields by the penetration amount.

i.e. if I have 50% Spell Penetration, I deal 50% damage thru shield, shield takes other 50%.
i.e. if I have 40% Armor Penetration, I deal 40% damage thru shield, shield takes other 60%.

Nijjion · January 2015

Damn that looks OP... better nerf DKs!

Xsorus · January 2015

heh...Brawler right now for 2 hander stacks with itself...Meaning you can keep using the ability and stacking shields ontop of one another...if you have multiple enemies you can hit it like twice and have almost 30k shielding

Merrak · January 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

Damn that looks OP... better nerf DKs!

Now that's a comment I can get behind!

Glory · January 2015

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

heh...Brawler right now for 2 hander stacks with itself...Meaning you can keep using the ability and stacking shields ontop of one another...if you have multiple enemies you can hit it like twice and have almost 30k shielding

Good to know. I'm hoping you reported it as that's clearly not supposed to happen.

Orchish · January 2015

Grim13 wrote: »

Tried to gank a sorcerer yesterday... I couldn't get past his damage shield before he killed me. Now, I'm not saying that I was expecting a one shot kill, nothing of the sort, but you'd at least figure I could force him to reapply it... no.

The game's a joke. 1.6 isn't the game saver many of us had hoped it would be. If anything, it's worse.

Same experience, attacked a sorc and couldn't get past his shield stacking, he was slowly killing me down while seeming far more tanky in his light armour than i was in my heavy. Ofcourse my dps SHOULD suck as a heavy armour tank, but then my defense should be better than that of a light armour dps build, if dps can simply stack shields to become good at both offense and defense, what's the point of heavy armour? same problem since release i'm afraid, i was hoping it would change in 1.6.

Cody · January 2015

RAGE TIME:D:D:D:D:D:D

VIEWER DISCRETION IS NOT A CONCERN

Does everyone see now????? Does everyone see EXACTLY what I complain about now???

its crap like this that makes PvP such a frustration. ENDLESS DAMAGE SHIELD STACKING. It is total BS.

Its crap like this that will eventually lead to the downfall of ESO PvP. If its not looked at. If the horrendous lag does not kill this game, crap like what was shown on this video will. Y'all can laugh at me and mock me all y'all want, but I am right and y'all know it.

Ok i'll shut up and let y'all do your thing:)

CPT_CAPSLOCK · January 2015

Whats happening in ur video is happening on live in any vs sorc duel, welcome to the world of harness vs only spell dmg @Soulac

http://youtu.be/w_we9vHdemw

Nothing new in 1.6, dmg shields and dmg values are both raised up the same amount.

Panda244 · January 2015

Harness Magicka only blocks spells. Hit him with anything else and it goes right through, this video is just showcasing general idiocy $:\$

Its a test yeah, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hit him with any physical-nonspell and it'll go through the shield... Unless they changed the way harness magicka works.

Varicite · January 2015

Panda244 wrote: »

Harness Magicka only blocks spells. Hit him with anything else and it goes right through, this video is just showcasing general idiocy $:\$

Its a test yeah, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hit him with any physical-nonspell and it'll go through the shield... Unless they changed the way harness magicka works.

I'd be interested in seeing a similar test done w/ Hardened Ward / Healing Ward stacking, personally.

I feel like the results would be a bit more palatable.

DDuke · January 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Harness Magicka only blocks spells. Hit him with anything else and it goes right through, this video is just showcasing general idiocy $:\$

Its a test yeah, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hit him with any physical-nonspell and it'll go through the shield... Unless they changed the way harness magicka works.

I'd be interested in seeing a similar test done w/ Hardened Ward / Healing Ward stacking, personally.

I feel like the results would be a bit more palatable.

Regardless, you shouldn't be totally invincible against spellcasters by spamming a single dmg shield, that's just bad design.

You can't really expect magicka users to use physical skills either, that's not really what comes to mind when you want to play a spellcaster.

As a stamina Nightblade, I'd be incredibly pissed if someone told me I had to slot a magic damaging spell (that'd be a complete waste in all other scenarios) in order to be able to kill someone who happened to slot an ability.

So either: a) bad design or b) overpowered

I'm also interested in seeing tests with other dmg shields.

Panda244 · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Harness Magicka only blocks spells. Hit him with anything else and it goes right through, this video is just showcasing general idiocy $:\$

Its a test yeah, it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Hit him with any physical-nonspell and it'll go through the shield... Unless they changed the way harness magicka works.

I'd be interested in seeing a similar test done w/ Hardened Ward / Healing Ward stacking, personally.

I feel like the results would be a bit more palatable.

Regardless, you shouldn't be totally invincible against spellcasters by spamming a single dmg shield, that's just bad design.

You can't really expect magicka users to use physical skills either, that's not really what comes to mind when you want to play a spellcaster.

As a stamina Nightblade, I'd be incredibly pissed if someone told me I had to slot a magic damaging spell (that'd be a complete waste in all other scenarios) in order to be able to kill someone who happened to slot an ability.

So either: a) bad design or b) overpowered

I'm also interested in seeing tests with other dmg shields.

It was against two people, who because of the new patch, were prolly doing alot less dmg than they would on live. So yes. it will keep you alive. They just need to make harness like igneous, recasting doesn't refresh the shield. But idc personally, spamming that when 5-6 people on you won't do jack

Araxleon · January 2015

"Gets paper, writes down -dont bother with people on forums-"
okay~! done all set

I would show how I can tank 4 lethal arrows with healing ward as a NB
or how a sorc shield can tank *lethal arrows* evne better with the class shield.
or how DK can have perma reflect up.

Here are the issues I found
1. very high regen + champion passives + (cost reduction has no longer a hidden soft cap)
2. damage shields are stronger...idk what it is but if you use a shield you should know what I mean.
3. Magicka DPS is weaker, also IDK what it is but its weaker.
4. ZOS DID NOT 100% all stats they changed the value and damage of MANY things.
5. People have said *ohhh shield stacking was always horrible and like this* WRONG at no point can you shield stack and stay at 100% magicka in live. (Yes in live you can shield stack and have alot of magicka 50% or so but then you have less magicka to play with on offense)

now let us make one single thing clear in live sorcs were countered by a single shield (harness magicka) and couldnt do anything to do damage past it, why did this only effect sorcs well cuz EVERY OTHER CLASS had a magical physical attack to counter that lava whip, jabs,surprise attack.
My suggestion for 1.6
take away the 100% stats go back to the old system.
tweak the perks in champion system to match the old system.
keep everything the same as in 1.5 BUT ADD
-champion system
-justice system
-remove or make softcaps bigger
-keep all buffs/nerfs (if you read patch notes you know what I mean)
-make crystal shards deal physical damage so they have something to go thru harness (after all your throwing a brick at someone).
-blocking waste more stamina like how it is on PTS
-keep stamina buffs
1.5 worked fine we just needed tweaks not a revamp. sorcs could counter harness if they had a physical attack so give them one and everything would of been fine.

1.6 at this point is DREADFUL (yes they fixed stam builds and some people like it but they destroyed alot of other mechanics) in my eyes and this better be a extremely early (and I mean EXTREMELY) version of 1.6 and needs alot of changing and re-balancing.

Like I said above most of the things that are broken is based around how they reworked all values and skills costs and what kind of damage skills do.

I uninstalled the base game (I dont have enough memory for both the game and PTS) JUST so I can test the PTS and continue to test and play it everyday.

Soulac · January 2015

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

Whats happening in ur video is happening on live in any vs sorc duel, welcome to the world of harness vs only spell dmg @Soulac

http://youtu.be/w_we9vHdemw

Nothing new in 1.6, dmg shields and dmg values are both raised up the same amount.

Well now Harness absorbs melee spells too, it's stronger and Magicka skills are dealing less dmg (at least Veiled Strike and Funnel Health)
It's not the same, it's worse..
I'm feeling like they force me to go Stamina as a Nightblade.

bosmern_ESO · January 2015

If people can stack shields for more then their health, I want to stack brutality buffs so I get 100k+ weapon damage.

bosmern_ESO · January 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Well here you go, just skip the Record problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjv8L40w7a8

Bare in mind im a NB This is 1 shield.
I have healing ward if I get low.
DK/sorc/templar can do this but even stronger because they have a shield.
Shield stacking is powerful... and magicka DPS is just weak

Yea...I fought you earlier today and it took 3 of us to kill you, and it still took like 5-10 minutes!

Derra · January 2015

Soulac wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

Whats happening in ur video is happening on live in any vs sorc duel, welcome to the world of harness vs only spell dmg @Soulac

http://youtu.be/w_we9vHdemw

Nothing new in 1.6, dmg shields and dmg values are both raised up the same amount.

Well now Harness absorbs melee spells too, it's stronger and Magicka skills are dealing less dmg (at least Veiled Strike and Funnel Health)
It's not the same, it's worse..
I'm feeling like they force me to go Stamina as a Nightblade.

You´re a little crybaby. You yourself have been abusing the living hell out of harness magica on live. Now that it affects your build you come to the forum with "video evidence" claiming its stupid and broken.
Someone took your candy? You mad?
Welcome to the real world of magica builds soulac. The way its on live for a sorc and caster nightblades.
They also broke the dmg on veiled strike and whip for that matter. Nobody knows why.

Varicite wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Whether this gets fixed pretty much determines if I'll keep playing this game in the coming months.

The expectations aren't high

sad part is... the DPS is not enough magicka feels weak...
shields are soo strong also.
also they could knock me down but I have 40% stam recovery soo if I just CC break and never block I cant die...

I don't know why ZOS keeps doing the exact opposite most players want:

TTK is too low, people die in <0,1 seconds. What does ZOS do?
Reduces health.

Shield/Heal spam is everywhere in PvP. What does ZOS do?
Makes it even stronger (and more shields).

Atleast the permablocking is somewhat limited now that it costs a lot more (without Champion Points), but I can't really find much else that would positively affect PvP

I don´t know what you want ppl to do.

"plz, plz, no shields so i can gank moar!!!"

Your always saying ppl don´t want shields and heal spamming but i´ve yet to see evidence of that claim. You don´t want shield and heal spam.

Araxleon wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Well here you go, just skip the Record problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjv8L40w7a8

Bare in mind im a NB This is 1 shield.
I have healing ward if I get low.
DK/sorc/templar can do this but even stronger because they have a shield.
Shield stacking is powerful... and magicka DPS is just weak

This has always been possible on live. If a player focuses only on casting shields you wont kill him without cc. I don´t see the problem really.

Personally, I just want shields to be a situational ability, stack them to survive at the cost of resources.

Clearly, the resource cost for the survival the shields provide simply isn't high enough, because it isn't situational. People shield stack 24/7, and I believe it's a design flaw to be able to count on them that much w/ such little penalty in both dps (granted, magicka itself seems a bit low damage-wise atm, but you don't lose any damage for shield stacking) and resource management.

One might be tempted to say "But if you're spending all your time casting shields, you aren't doing any damage", which is partially true. But on the flipside, if you can endlessly cast those shields while keeping up Immovable, then there is no downside to shield-stacking. You will simply outlast your opponent's resources and win, or they will give up and you continue doing your thing, which is still a win.

Well the video here is utterly stupid. It shows low-dmg vr14 template chars hitting magica attacks on a character with live equipment.

Why do i not think shields are broken? Shields are somewhat broken in a 1vs1 scenario, I have to admit that. But i do not think they should be balanced in that regard. Shields and Heals need their current strengh to be worth casting in grp encounters. Even with shields you´re melting in seconds when focused.
They also don´t come "free". Shield casting comes at the cost of opportunity and momentum in a fight. You don´t put pressure on your opponent when you´re casting shields. Most People dont realize that in open world encounters this can cost you the kill or even your life because every second longer is a second of potential adds.
Ppl saying shields are to strong for their magica cost and output in comparison to dmg abilities: Go take a look at the numbers on PTS. Shields are more expensive than most offensive maneuvers now. They are minimally stronger (you can´t compare DK and NB melee abilities atm bc zenimax decided for whatever reason to nerf the living hell out of magica versions of Lava Whip and Veiled Strike).
My last Point is personal: I don´t like stealth gameplay. I refuse to stealth for longer periods (i do so to chat in cyrodiil). Without shields and strong heals this gameplay would no longer be vaible because initiative is to important to give up. Nobody would be able to recover from Stealth hits without shields/heals.

The only two shields that are majorly broken atm (and will be in 1.6) are blazing shield and harness Magica (my personal opinion ofc):
1. Harness Magica does not have a cost. It is stupid by design to stay at 100% resources casting 1 shield against 1 or multiple magica using enemies. This is the case in the video (it is also the same issue on live).
2. Blazing Shield: This one is a little bit tricky. Blazing shield is an ability that does not have a downside to use. It has a moderate magica cost and is strong in both aspects - offense and defense. This means you don´t have to split your resources and time deciding what you do. You have great dmg and great defense with 1 button press and 1 gcd. Its broken in a resource based game system to have abilities offer strong offense and defense in the same cast. Their use is a nobrainer.

TL;DR shields are fine in grp encounters. blazing shield and harness magica got design issues. Soulacs vid is stupid

Araxleon · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

Whats happening in ur video is happening on live in any vs sorc duel, welcome to the world of harness vs only spell dmg @Soulac

http://youtu.be/w_we9vHdemw

Nothing new in 1.6, dmg shields and dmg values are both raised up the same amount.

Well now Harness absorbs melee spells too, it's stronger and Magicka skills are dealing less dmg (at least Veiled Strike and Funnel Health)
It's not the same, it's worse..
I'm feeling like they force me to go Stamina as a Nightblade.

You´re a little crybaby. You yourself have been abusing the living hell out of harness magica on live. Now that it affects your build you come to the forum with "video evidence" claiming its stupid and broken.
Someone took your candy? You mad?
Welcome to the real world of magica builds soulac. The way its on live for a sorc and caster nightblades.
They also broke the dmg on veiled strike and whip for that matter. Nobody knows why.

Varicite wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Whether this gets fixed pretty much determines if I'll keep playing this game in the coming months.

The expectations aren't high

sad part is... the DPS is not enough magicka feels weak...
shields are soo strong also.
also they could knock me down but I have 40% stam recovery soo if I just CC break and never block I cant die...

I don't know why ZOS keeps doing the exact opposite most players want:

TTK is too low, people die in <0,1 seconds. What does ZOS do?
Reduces health.

Shield/Heal spam is everywhere in PvP. What does ZOS do?
Makes it even stronger (and more shields).

Atleast the permablocking is somewhat limited now that it costs a lot more (without Champion Points), but I can't really find much else that would positively affect PvP

I don´t know what you want ppl to do.

"plz, plz, no shields so i can gank moar!!!"

Your always saying ppl don´t want shields and heal spamming but i´ve yet to see evidence of that claim. You don´t want shield and heal spam.

Araxleon wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Well here you go, just skip the Record problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjv8L40w7a8

Bare in mind im a NB This is 1 shield.
I have healing ward if I get low.
DK/sorc/templar can do this but even stronger because they have a shield.
Shield stacking is powerful... and magicka DPS is just weak

This has always been possible on live. If a player focuses only on casting shields you wont kill him without cc. I don´t see the problem really.

Personally, I just want shields to be a situational ability, stack them to survive at the cost of resources.

Clearly, the resource cost for the survival the shields provide simply isn't high enough, because it isn't situational. People shield stack 24/7, and I believe it's a design flaw to be able to count on them that much w/ such little penalty in both dps (granted, magicka itself seems a bit low damage-wise atm, but you don't lose any damage for shield stacking) and resource management.

One might be tempted to say "But if you're spending all your time casting shields, you aren't doing any damage", which is partially true. But on the flipside, if you can endlessly cast those shields while keeping up Immovable, then there is no downside to shield-stacking. You will simply outlast your opponent's resources and win, or they will give up and you continue doing your thing, which is still a win.

Well the video here is utterly stupid. It shows low-dmg vr14 template chars hitting magica attacks on a character with live equipment.

Why do i not think shields are broken? Shields are somewhat broken in a 1vs1 scenario, I have to admit that. But i do not think they should be balanced in that regard. Shields and Heals need their current strengh to be worth casting in grp encounters. Even with shields you´re melting in seconds when focused.
They also don´t come "free". Shield casting comes at the cost of opportunity and momentum in a fight. You don´t put pressure on your opponent when you´re casting shields. Most People dont realize that in open world encounters this can cost you the kill or even your life because every second longer is a second of potential adds.
Ppl saying shields are to strong for their magica cost and output in comparison to dmg abilities: Go take a look at the numbers on PTS. Shields are more expensive than most offensive maneuvers now. They are minimally stronger (you can´t compare DK and NB melee abilities atm bc zenimax decided for whatever reason to nerf the living hell out of magica versions of Lava Whip and Veiled Strike).
My last Point is personal: I don´t like stealth gameplay. I refuse to stealth for longer periods (i do so to chat in cyrodiil). Without shields and strong heals this gameplay would no longer be vaible because initiative is to important to give up. Nobody would be able to recover from Stealth hits without shields/heals.

The only two shields that are majorly broken atm (and will be in 1.6) are blazing shield and harness Magica (my personal opinion ofc):
1. Harness Magica does not have a cost. It is stupid by design to stay at 100% resources casting 1 shield against 1 or multiple magica using enemies. This is the case in the video (it is also the same issue on live).
2. Blazing Shield: This one is a little bit tricky. Blazing shield is an ability that does not have a downside to use. It has a moderate magica cost and is strong in both aspects - offense and defense. This means you don´t have to split your resources and time deciding what you do. You have great dmg and great defense with 1 button press and 1 gcd. Its broken in a resource based game system to have abilities offer strong offense and defense in the same cast. Their use is a nobrainer.

TL;DR shields are fine in grp encounters. blazing shield and harness magica got design issues. Soulacs vid is stupid

On live if you deal massive damage harness procs one maybe twice and you will run out of magicka + some attack dealt physical damage making harness not that powerful. in this vid I had insane magicka regen higher than the cost of the shield itself and shield can be abused like this. (Harness half the time wasnt even providing magicka return because regen was higher than cost making it free.

Araxleon · January 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

Whats happening in ur video is happening on live in any vs sorc duel, welcome to the world of harness vs only spell dmg @Soulac

http://youtu.be/w_we9vHdemw

Nothing new in 1.6, dmg shields and dmg values are both raised up the same amount.

Well now Harness absorbs melee spells too, it's stronger and Magicka skills are dealing less dmg (at least Veiled Strike and Funnel Health)
It's not the same, it's worse..
I'm feeling like they force me to go Stamina as a Nightblade.

You´re a little crybaby. You yourself have been abusing the living hell out of harness magica on live. Now that it affects your build you come to the forum with "video evidence" claiming its stupid and broken.
Someone took your candy? You mad?
Welcome to the real world of magica builds soulac. The way its on live for a sorc and caster nightblades.
They also broke the dmg on veiled strike and whip for that matter. Nobody knows why.

Varicite wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Whether this gets fixed pretty much determines if I'll keep playing this game in the coming months.

The expectations aren't high

sad part is... the DPS is not enough magicka feels weak...
shields are soo strong also.
also they could knock me down but I have 40% stam recovery soo if I just CC break and never block I cant die...

I don't know why ZOS keeps doing the exact opposite most players want:

TTK is too low, people die in <0,1 seconds. What does ZOS do?
Reduces health.

Shield/Heal spam is everywhere in PvP. What does ZOS do?
Makes it even stronger (and more shields).

Atleast the permablocking is somewhat limited now that it costs a lot more (without Champion Points), but I can't really find much else that would positively affect PvP

I don´t know what you want ppl to do.

"plz, plz, no shields so i can gank moar!!!"

Your always saying ppl don´t want shields and heal spamming but i´ve yet to see evidence of that claim. You don´t want shield and heal spam.

Araxleon wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Well here you go, just skip the Record problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjv8L40w7a8

Bare in mind im a NB This is 1 shield.
I have healing ward if I get low.
DK/sorc/templar can do this but even stronger because they have a shield.
Shield stacking is powerful... and magicka DPS is just weak

This has always been possible on live. If a player focuses only on casting shields you wont kill him without cc. I don´t see the problem really.

Personally, I just want shields to be a situational ability, stack them to survive at the cost of resources.

Clearly, the resource cost for the survival the shields provide simply isn't high enough, because it isn't situational. People shield stack 24/7, and I believe it's a design flaw to be able to count on them that much w/ such little penalty in both dps (granted, magicka itself seems a bit low damage-wise atm, but you don't lose any damage for shield stacking) and resource management.

One might be tempted to say "But if you're spending all your time casting shields, you aren't doing any damage", which is partially true. But on the flipside, if you can endlessly cast those shields while keeping up Immovable, then there is no downside to shield-stacking. You will simply outlast your opponent's resources and win, or they will give up and you continue doing your thing, which is still a win.

Well the video here is utterly stupid. It shows low-dmg vr14 template chars hitting magica attacks on a character with live equipment.

Why do i not think shields are broken? Shields are somewhat broken in a 1vs1 scenario, I have to admit that. But i do not think they should be balanced in that regard. Shields and Heals need their current strengh to be worth casting in grp encounters. Even with shields you´re melting in seconds when focused.
They also don´t come "free". Shield casting comes at the cost of opportunity and momentum in a fight. You don´t put pressure on your opponent when you´re casting shields. Most People dont realize that in open world encounters this can cost you the kill or even your life because every second longer is a second of potential adds.
Ppl saying shields are to strong for their magica cost and output in comparison to dmg abilities: Go take a look at the numbers on PTS. Shields are more expensive than most offensive maneuvers now. They are minimally stronger (you can´t compare DK and NB melee abilities atm bc zenimax decided for whatever reason to nerf the living hell out of magica versions of Lava Whip and Veiled Strike).
My last Point is personal: I don´t like stealth gameplay. I refuse to stealth for longer periods (i do so to chat in cyrodiil). Without shields and strong heals this gameplay would no longer be vaible because initiative is to important to give up. Nobody would be able to recover from Stealth hits without shields/heals.

The only two shields that are majorly broken atm (and will be in 1.6) are blazing shield and harness Magica (my personal opinion ofc):
1. Harness Magica does not have a cost. It is stupid by design to stay at 100% resources casting 1 shield against 1 or multiple magica using enemies. This is the case in the video (it is also the same issue on live).
2. Blazing Shield: This one is a little bit tricky. Blazing shield is an ability that does not have a downside to use. It has a moderate magica cost and is strong in both aspects - offense and defense. This means you don´t have to split your resources and time deciding what you do. You have great dmg and great defense with 1 button press and 1 gcd. Its broken in a resource based game system to have abilities offer strong offense and defense in the same cast. Their use is a nobrainer.

TL;DR shields are fine in grp encounters. blazing shield and harness magica got design issues. Soulacs vid is stupid

On live if you deal massive damage harness procs one maybe twice and you will run out of magicka + some attack dealt physical damage making harness not that powerful. in this vid I had insane magicka regen higher than the cost of the shield itself and shield can be abused like this. (Harness half the time wasnt even providing magicka return because regen was higher than cost making it free.

tommorw if he is on I will make a DK/templar/sorc and provide a video of doing the samething verse snipe + magicka attacks.
and then people can come up with more excuses lol