Official Discussion Thread for “Your Guide to ESO Plus™ Premium Membership”

Bouvin

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Please reconsider your stance with this decision and realize this is not good for your market nor is it good to your players. You just opened the flood gate to trolls, bad players, and other sorts of clowns by allowing this.

Turbine started the free to play marketing scheme and look what happened to them, they barely exist as a company. They got bought out, sold out, bounced around numerous times and they cannot produce a game to the quality of Asherons Call ever again.

SWTOR and TERA fell into this trap and they also cannot produce a quality game. That's just the fact of life. You're going to allot a cash shop and eventually tie your in-game economics with your cash shop. There is no possible way around this, this will happen if you go this route.

And your game will turn into a sub-par experience, this is unavoidable, you cannot accomplish a good game with the free 2 play or buy 2 play model. Fact, period.

EQN is going to be Dragons Prophet with an EQ skin, pay for every little thing to be unlocked sink thousands of dollars into the devs pocket while they couldn't produce a bug free, lag free mess to save their own skins and the worst part is Sony entertains the fools who still play it.

I personally played from ARENA to now begging for an Elder Scrolls online, you just potentially murdered any hopes many had for this product. And every dev that supported this decision.

As an old schooler from the UO, AC, DAoC, and SB era, I'm highly dissapointed in you devs that are okay with this, personally. You sold out and you sold out the heart of old school, so thanks for that.

I've been playing MMOs since UO as well.

What I have learned is that once they announce a decision like this there is no turning back.

They've already invested the time to code it into the game as it's being released on 1.6 next week.

What's really said is that they've either lied about a subscription model change or just remained silent up to this point. Deceit by omission. Despite the numerous threads asking them about their stance.

Casterial

Please explain this.

At launch /zone, /w mailbox /yell were all disabled to actual players 99% of the time. Why? Because gold bots and spammers flooded our mailbox, flooded zone, flooded whispers and flooded town yells.

Explain how you will fix this now.

Also explain why go F2P its a huge disappointment from you guys here. The sub was fine, but if this game becomes like SWOTR then we are all in a HUGE HUGE disappointment and the fall of ESO.

Ragged_Claw

Hmm. From the comments on an ES page I follow on facebook, lots of people saying they might buy it, some people commenting on what a slap in the face it is to those who have been paying all this time, and this comment, word for word: "Lmao! All those ...holes have been paying for a sub all this time and they could've just waited and played it for free!". Quite. Just like paying full price for the game only for it to appear on Steam half price and with vanity pet just a few weeks later, just like paying the sub month after month because I don't want stupid shops that leech money out of you. I am indeed an ...hole.

I really don't see much point in continuing with a sub, if I want some stupid costume from the shop, I could pay for it with the money I'll save in cancelling, no? Increased XP, well whatever, its not a race, I'm not bothered about zooming up levels, I'd just grind if that's what I wanted.

There's not enough there really to justify me to keep paying, especially as I'm hard up. Also there's no new solo content, its all about grouping, which is problematic for me as I play unsociable hours. So I rarely get to do the dailies, haven't really done any of Craglorn and I hate the pvp, so that doesn't really leave me anything to do after Cadwell's Gold. Why they can't stick something in for us loners I don't know. I'm an a hole and a sad loner. Think I'll go back to Skyrim

Rinsaku

I'll continue to sub, the game is still highly enjoyable to me and I don't see any reason "yet" to leave. However if they start selling items besides cosmetic benefits I'm gone. No random "item boxes" for the best gear, no 150% speed buffed mounts, or any of the things that ruined every other MMO that went B2P/F2P.

If I have to spend money outside of my normal subscription (which is 100% to support new lore/content, as I do enjoy that) in order to keep up with PVP I will simply pick up my wallet and move on.

drinkingbeerub17_ESO

So does this mean I can buy uber gear with real money?

Oh joy...

iamalejandro_ESO

Rinsaku wrote: »

I'll continue to sub, the game is still highly enjoyable to me and I don't see any reason "yet" to leave. However if they start selling items besides cosmetic benefits I'm gone. No random "item boxes" for the best gear, no 150% speed buffed mounts, or any of the things that ruined every other MMO that went B2P/F2P.

If I have to spend money outside of my normal subscription (which is 100% to support new lore/content, as I do enjoy that) in order to keep up with PVP I will simply pick up my wallet and move on.

This guy, he knows. Selling items with the in-game currency that even have a slight chance to be the best gear/buffs will be so heartbreaking. I mean aside from the fact that it'll break immersion, it'll also make subbed players so much stronger than someone who spends hours actually playing the game. Even 3% damage buffs can be devastating if added up in large scale pvp groups.

Orious13

Does "no refund for subscription" mean I won't get 20,000 crowns as back pay for testing your console game?

osaceeub17_ESO

I was in a "free to play" game for 7 years. Cash shops became the focus of the game. I work for my money and do not have a "mommie" to bank roll me.

I have never complained about the monthly subscription fee. I gladly paid it and would even budget more if that was what was needed.

I sincerely hope f2p (really pay to win) is not the way this game is headed. I despise the element f2p interjects into the community.

Just be aware, the first time I see anything in the "cash shop" that gives an advantage to 'cash shoppers' over dedicated player, I will leave the game.

I am the guild leader of a crafting guild. I sincerely hope all the work we have done to support each other to accomplish the guilds goals, was not wasted.

Have been with you since beta. Have been a faithful subscriber from day one.
I am reluctant to believe this is a good move.

You built a beautiful world. A great place to escape to in the evenings. A good place to meet people and share good times. Thank you for that.

Osacee
Osa's Crafting Guild

keithvsmith

People jumping the gun as usaul. Its not F2P, its B2P. You still need to buy the game just like Guild Wars. Also, you don't know what will be in the cash shop. As long as it's just vanity stuff, it won't be "Pay to Win." Costumes, mounts, pets, etc has no effect on how "OP" a person will be.

trimsic_ESO

Update 1.6 was a great opportunity for ZOS to have people come back to the game and subscribe. Why? Because 1.6 has a lot of improvements that people were waiting for a long long time:

- An improved combat system (the most important issue in the game currently)
- Increased build diversity
- Class balance
- A continuous progression system, which rewards the players who play the game.

So many good things that people were willing to test. I can't count the number of former guild mates who were ready to re-subscribe for this new release.

And... B2P is announced. This business model will never drain enough cash to develop the future of ESO; in 6 months or so, the game is dead.

My heart is broken into pieces...

Brizz

This will be GREAT. Don't listen to all the whiners. Free to play will DOUBLE the population, maybe even triple. ESO Premium means that we can continue to support the development team if we choose, while getting some bonus items along the way.

ESO is NOT about gear either. I have killed many players nearly nekkid because I had more skill, so ignore all the pay to win BS.

With this update all I see is a more active game, more new players to slaughter, and new mounts/toys/costumes.

#excited

Peteris

[...]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Darkonflare15

Ragged_Claw wrote: »

Hmm. From the comments on an ES page I follow on facebook, lots of people saying they might buy it, some people commenting on what a slap in the face it is to those who have been paying all this time, and this comment, word for word: "Lmao! All those ...holes have been paying for a sub all this time and they could've just waited and played it for free!". Quite. Just like paying full price for the game only for it to appear on Steam half price and with vanity pet just a few weeks later, just like paying the sub month after month because I don't want stupid shops that leech money out of you. I am indeed an ...hole.

I really don't see much point in continuing with a sub, if I want some stupid costume from the shop, I could pay for it with the money I'll save in cancelling, no? Increased XP, well whatever, its not a race, I'm not bothered about zooming up levels, I'd just grind if that's what I wanted.

There's not enough there really to justify me to keep paying, especially as I'm hard up. Also there's no new solo content, its all about grouping, which is problematic for me as I play unsociable hours. So I rarely get to do the dailies, haven't really done any of Craglorn and I hate the pvp, so that doesn't really leave me anything to do after Cadwell's Gold. Why they can't stick something in for us loners I don't know. I'm an a hole and a sad loner. Think I'll go back to Skyrim

Well there is Wrothgar, Clockwork city, and Mephalus's realm which are different areas where you can play by yourself in the future. So they at least have new stuff for the future coming to the game.

martinhpb16_ESO

Not so bothered about the b2p.

But....... I HATE CASH SHOPS.

They are the worst thing ever in MMOs

martinhpb16_ESO

keithvsmith wrote: »

People jumping the gun as usaul. Its not F2P, its B2P. You still need to buy the game just like Guild Wars. Also, you don't know what will be in the cash shop. As long as it's just vanity stuff, it won't be "Pay to Win." Costumes, mounts, pets, etc has no effect on how "OP" a person will be.

Agree on the B2p thing.

But cash shops start not so bad but they exponentially increase p2w as content decreases.

Bouvin

keithvsmith wrote: »

People jumping the gun as usaul. Its not F2P, its B2P. You still need to buy the game just like Guild Wars. Also, you don't know what will be in the cash shop. As long as it's just vanity stuff, it won't be "Pay to Win." Costumes, mounts, pets, etc has no effect on how "OP" a person will be.

It'll stay B2P until the cash shop sales start to approach the revenue from subscriptions (plus).

Then they will make the F2P announcement.

I give it 12 months at most.

Darkonflare15

Bouvin wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Please reconsider your stance with this decision and realize this is not good for your market nor is it good to your players. You just opened the flood gate to trolls, bad players, and other sorts of clowns by allowing this.

Turbine started the free to play marketing scheme and look what happened to them, they barely exist as a company. They got bought out, sold out, bounced around numerous times and they cannot produce a game to the quality of Asherons Call ever again.

SWTOR and TERA fell into this trap and they also cannot produce a quality game. That's just the fact of life. You're going to allot a cash shop and eventually tie your in-game economics with your cash shop. There is no possible way around this, this will happen if you go this route.

And your game will turn into a sub-par experience, this is unavoidable, you cannot accomplish a good game with the free 2 play or buy 2 play model. Fact, period.

EQN is going to be Dragons Prophet with an EQ skin, pay for every little thing to be unlocked sink thousands of dollars into the devs pocket while they couldn't produce a bug free, lag free mess to save their own skins and the worst part is Sony entertains the fools who still play it.

I personally played from ARENA to now begging for an Elder Scrolls online, you just potentially murdered any hopes many had for this product. And every dev that supported this decision.

As an old schooler from the UO, AC, DAoC, and SB era, I'm highly dissapointed in you devs that are okay with this, personally. You sold out and you sold out the heart of old school, so thanks for that.

I've been playing MMOs since UO as well.

What I have learned is that once they announce a decision like this there is no turning back.

They've already invested the time to code it into the game as it's being released on 1.6 next week.

What's really said is that they've either lied about a subscription model change or just remained silent up to this point. Deceit by omission. Despite the numerous threads asking them about their stance.

Well they wanted it to be surprise. Whats the point of telling us it going to be buy to play without giving us details about the change. Seriously they are not obligated to tell us about the change and new content until they are ready. This is the problem when companies try to be upfront with you or try to be your friend. You absolutely want no secrets from them but they are not your friends.

recycledrenegade

Zenimax used the loyal fan base of TES as a way to fund the development of their game. Our purchase, our time, and our recurring subscription fees fueled the early and ongoing development, balancing, and fixes.

Now that there is a nearly finished product, our desire for an MMO that could rival the success WoW is being cast aside. TESO's rich lore and franchise recognition alone was enough to ensure the games continued success. Now we are being led to believe that Zenimax is "looking out for us" and giving us a "good deal" by removing subscription fees. If its about the money, then there is a better way. Set up a two week long account trial and drop sub fees to $9.99. More players will flock and we can keep server population managed and spammers out. I'll even still pay for the DLC and expansions.

When your servers are overloaded and no one is buying your silly crowns, I will not be there to see you closing the doors. Your ruining the one MMO that i still play, and putting a black-eye on the Elder Scrolls history.

Rantahu

I'm in favor of the B2P option(Wish it was like this from the start), but I really hate cash shops. We can only pray to Zenithar that the shops won't be dramatically game changing.

Rexlupis

To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
So much for alchemy being a viable profession, since potions are now available via the cash money shop... but it isn't like ZoS has supported the game's economy much before now. This is just another slap in the face.
I'm doubtful I'm going to play this game much anymore... and why should ZoS care? They already have my money... and the product they delivered is still unbalanced, still missing a whole lot of quality of life improvements, and they are still constantly delaying content... but they found the time to make a cash store.
Well, considering we were paying for content and support, and neither were supplied, what can we expect now that we are technically not paying for either?
To say it is insulting to their player-base is stating the obvious.
Before this game was released, I had high hopes. When I played the beta, I thought it needed a lot of work but still had potential. After over six months of balance issues, delayed content and claiming to listen to the community while ignoring issues for months (for instance, the problem of spying on kiosk bids)... and now this?
This shows how much they care about the community and this game.

recycledrenegade

“Our fans are our biggest inspiration, and we’ve listened to their feedback on the entertainment experience they want,” wrote Matt Firor, Game Director of The Elder Scrolls Online in a press release. “We know that Elder Scrolls fans want choice when it comes to how they play and how they pay, and that is what they will get..."

Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1774588/elder-scrolls-online-goes-buy-to-play-as-ps4-xbox-one-launch-announced/#EjV6mcAz0A6MPygx.99

The forum responses on your website determined that was a lie. ~Maury

badmojo0777b14_ESO

add me to the list of loyal ESO players who just UNSUBBED, there's my vote

Miszou

badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »

add me to the list of loyal ESO players who just UNSUBBED, there's my vote

I don't think you understand what "loyal" means...

Vez

Rexlupis wrote: »

To say I am disappointed is an understatement.
So much for alchemy being a viable profession, since potions are now available via the cash money shop... but it isn't like ZoS has supported the game's economy much before now. This is just another slap in the face.
I'm doubtful I'm going to play this game much anymore... and why should ZoS care? They already have my money... and the product they delivered is still unbalanced, still missing a whole lot of quality of life improvements, and they are still constantly delaying content... but they found the time to make a cash store.
Well, considering we were paying for content and support, and neither were supplied, what can we expect now that we are technically not paying for either?
To say it is insulting to their player-base is stating the obvious.
Before this game was released, I had high hopes. When I played the beta, I thought it needed a lot of work but still had potential. After over six months of balance issues, delayed content and claiming to listen to the community while ignoring issues for months (for instance, the problem of spying on kiosk bids)... and now this?
This shows how much they care about the community and this game.

The potions in the cash shop are the same potions available on vendors. Tri-pots will not be in the Crown store: "If you want the best stuff in the game, you have to go to a player crafter" - Matt Firor

Rexlupis

Vez wrote: »

The potions in the cash shop are the same potions available on vendors. Tri-pots will not be in the Crown store: "If you want the best stuff in the game, you have to go to a player crafter" - Matt Firor

You mean the potions everyone vendors because there is such a surplus there is no market for them what-so-ever? Why would they even bother to include those in the cash store and how long until these items sell so badly that they decide that "better" items are required to make revenue?
Considering how disingenuous the devs have been with us so far, why should we believe a comment such as this?

Darkonflare15

Miszou wrote: »

badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »

add me to the list of loyal ESO players who just UNSUBBED, there's my vote

I don't think you understand what "loyal" means...

Yeah I think he is confused.

grimjim398

Good luck with the changes. I'm out of here as of now.

gstewart0413b14_ESO

One possible bright side, all the f2p'ers will drive up the prices we can charge them for crafted items since most are too lazy to learn (or spend skill points) on crafting . . . muhahaha!

Freyar

...maybe ESO should have shuttered instead? I'm getting tired of finding MMOs that are great shifting to abusive models.

Might start out innocent enough, but it WILL go to a pay-to-win scenario later. What's worse, they're still keeping a subscription method anyway which means they're trying to encourage people to pay for the sub and still BUY these convenience items.

Look, if the convenience items sell like hotcakes, maybe the game wasn't balanced right?

EQBallzz

When I first read this I have to say I felt a sinking feeling. This couldn't be happening. I can't say it was a complete surprise when you consider the console release but I absolutely detest anything F2P (Path of Exile being the only exception for me to date but that's not an MMO). After reading/watching more of the details of this change I'm a bit more positive on the change. While I can't stand F2P games I really don't mind B2P systems so long as they don't have any P2W elements or annoying cash shop advertising.

This system as it's been stated doesn't seem to have any P2W elements but it's skating a very fine line right now. The potions in the cash shop are not a concern if they are only equal to vendor bought potions (as stated) which would keep crafted pots clearly high above any in the cash shop.

The question is..will it stay that way? Is the game going to get that slow P2W creep as the weeks/months go on and they keep pushing that envelope further and further until there are boosters and other items in the cash shop that give a clear advantage? Will we see those awful casino loot boxes or chests in-game that can only be opened with store bought keys? Will we see flashing lights or annoying messages/sounds in the UI directing us to the cash shop? I'm willing to give this system a shot but the first time I see any of this type of garbage I'm gone for good and never coming back.

In all honesty..I think B2P is probably the best model for the future of MMOs but only if it's done right. It nicely bridges the gap between F2P and P2P but depending on how it's implemented it could lean pretty far one way or the other. Let's hope it doesn't end up like Neverwinter (shudder).