Getting annoyed by snipe... -__-

Rylana

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

There is only one truly competitive activity in this game.

Harvesting flowers in Hollow City.

True story.

Tankqull

morvegil wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not going to comment about the whole balance issue and what should be changed, because at this point I don't know what the best solution is.

All I can say is, when I'm running around doing my thing and I notice someone sniping me, they automatically become priority #1 on the "MUST KILL RIGHT NOW" list, no matter what the situation, if I don't focus them and kill them, then I'll have a hard time.

Oh that also applies to any templars stacking dark flares on me (which is WAY worse than snipe, just not as popular because it's a class based skill).

Oh yea for sure man, the snipers do become top priority no doubt, but sometimes (usually lately) there's more than 1 , and with my temp not really having bursty damage singling out a target for a quick kill isnt so quick lol

Thats called strategy. Always have reserve army waiting until the fight starts. We often hide 2-5 snipers in a battle till about 30% in...so once the enemy is set in their "Spam block, etc" pattern they get thrown off and insta killed.

Snipers in real life do this, didnt you see American Sniper?

I have no problem with what you have described, that's how snipers should be used.
but still , i think ZoS has made it too easy for people to want to be snipers, like yesterday specifically we had a full raid against another full raid, with us pushing on Sej. but at any given time you could look up on the keep and see no less than 15+ snipers ( not included in the 24+ man raid we were fighting on the ground)....so like i said, they obviously make it too easy for people to want to be snipers.

Sounds like medieval warfare...you could say its to easy to be a Sieger....carrying around a Ballista in your pocket and operating it as once person.

I'm not sure why you say its "easy". Its easy to be a DK and spam block/talons/whipe, its easy to be a sorc ans span Bolt/block/shards. Its just a weapon everyone can use...and not everyone is using it.

then the medival warefare effects of shields towards arrows should be given aswell

DDuke

Mariiana wrote: »

i think ZoS has made it too easy for people to want to be snipers

Hold on right there.

Could the issue instead be that ZOS has made it too hard for people to want to play a build that is not:

• magicka (or hybrid) build that require a zerg to take down
• a ganker (with bow)

?

These are the two playstyles that you come across in Cyrodiil, the rest constitute maybe < 3% of the population.

Where are the following things:

• melee stamina builds (e.g. heavy armour warrior, leather armour wearing rogues etc)
• DoT "warlocks"
• pure dps magicka builds (not focused on restoration magic)
• builds focused on traps
• "buffer" type builds
• necromancers (impossible), hunters with a pet (impossible), illusionists, shapeshifters (impossible) etcetc I could go on

The problem is that currently only "one shot builds" or "hold block & tank everything builds" are competitive (and thus compelling enough) for people to play.

Rylana

Pure DPS magicka builds are used quite heavily in PvP, mostly in bomb groups stacking sorcs/dks full of impulse bats and walls of elements, but they are quite common.

Bouvin

Teargrants wrote: »

Heavy armor + Purge.

So defend against snipe and suck against everything else. LOL.

Personally, I think Snipers should be exposed at the start of the animation, and not the end. This would help with stealth snipers and at least give you the opportunity to dodge roll.

When they aren't stealthed it's not as bad.

Bouvin

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

DDuke

Rylana wrote: »

Pure DPS magicka builds are used quite heavily in PvP, mostly in bomb groups stacking sorcs/dks full of impulse bats and walls of elements, but they are quite common.

"bomb groups"... sorry, but I don't consider them to be people (they are robots).

What I'm talking about is a viable playstyle in 1v1, 1vX, 5v5, 3v3 etc, not a playstyle that only works when running in a big ball & lagging the server

Bouvin

Nacario wrote: »

murtugo wrote: »

S & B, Sticks, bows.... so what else should be nerfed?

Reflective scales, I just picked up bow and this is a party killer

Wait a few weeks...

Rylana

DDuke wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Pure DPS magicka builds are used quite heavily in PvP, mostly in bomb groups stacking sorcs/dks full of impulse bats and walls of elements, but they are quite common.

"bomb groups"... sorry, but I don't consider them to be people (they are robots).

What I'm talking about is a viable playstyle in 1v1, 1vX, 5v5, 3v3 etc, not a playstyle that only works when running in a big ball & lagging the server

I dunno, i run solo on my ep sorc a lot. Not exactly a tanky build either, pure damage dealer. It amuses me to bait in my opponent, making them think my damage isnt all that good etc... and right when they think im done for, i drop the bomb and kill them in three seconds.

Just cause you seem bomb builds in blobs doesnt mean they are only viable in blobs.

I like to experiment.

Columba

hardened ward, blazing shield, block, dodge, reflect, stealth, etc etc. quite simply, if you are dying to snipe you aren't playing correctly. I never kill decent players with snipe. use the tools you have.

Columba

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

thelordoffelines

Columba wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

Should you be guaranteed to die?

Cody

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

Should you be guaranteed to die?

If you are on horseback sprinting thru the wilderness paying absolutely no attention to your environment... yes.

If you are hiding behind your block like a coward the entire fight.. yes:D

if you are hiding behind damage shields like a coward the entire fight.... yes:D

If you are a tank that is actually fighting.... no

If you are paying attention and successfully dodging.... no

If you take it slow and be ready for anything... no

If you have actual armor on..... no

Two of those were troll sentences, however, they also highlight huge problems within ESO PvP right now. I'll let you guess which two those are:)

Columba

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

Should you be guaranteed to die?

only if you don't know how to avoid snipe.

Nacario

Tankqull wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

We all know Greatsword is to OP, 1k crit rush + works as stam resty!

1k crit rush I have never been hit that hard with that ability maybe 800... But its fine with me because they are taking significant risks.. Plus melee DPs requires a ton of rolling to avoid the new 64334555 archers ..

i was once hit with a crit rush for 1056 dmg but im fine with that i´m aswell absolutly fine with beeing hit for 2.1k uppercut from stealth as it actually requires skill to get that attack out. spewing 2.3k snipes from 40+m away is absolutly unbalanced.
and what i do not get to be honest is why does snipe recieve the out of stealth bonus dmg while no other non bow projectile does?

Can u provide a screenshot of u taking 2,3k dmg from snipe?

KBKB

Cody wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

Should you be guaranteed to die?

If you are on horseback sprinting thru the wilderness paying absolutely no attention to your environment... yes.

If you are hiding behind your block like a coward the entire fight.. yes:D

if you are hiding behind damage shields like a coward the entire fight.... yes:D

If you are a tank that is actually fighting.... no

If you are paying attention and successfully dodging.... no

If you take it slow and be ready for anything... no

If you have actual armor on..... no

Two of those were troll sentences, however, they also highlight huge problems within ESO PvP right now. I'll let you guess which two those are:)

All of which can be negated by your sound going out.. How many times had this been posted snipe ignores armor -_-

Nacario

ThyIronFist wrote: »

If you think a spammable, highest damaging, longest range, and cheap skill is perfectly fine. Then I'm sorry but you're an idiot.

There is NOTHING in this game that outranges snipe, no gapcloser can even get close, and from stealth people are able to do 2k+ hits.

Someone I know that was in fulll heavy, got 3-shotted by this crap. Even guildies that play / played a NB with bow consider the curreny state of bows/snipe redicilous.

And dont tell me to L2P or block/rolldodge. If I am sieging a keep, pouring oil, etc, I cant block now can I?

Why shouldnt you be able to survive snipe by blocking, dodging, and positioning yourself, when others can? That is what i do and i dont die. Yea i and anyone else can die if we are being taken by surprise or when out of resources but that can happen with any build, not just vs a bow user. Do you honestly think bow is the only one that can kill you effectively when sieging?

QuadroTony

do you like my Focused im?

Soulac

Knootewoot

Bouvin wrote: »

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

You die just as fast if a magicka NB does
-->camo hunter-->ambush-->stealth-->suprise attack-->impale


Both of them you don't see coming when in horseback. Only the arrow i can hear coming (although i can't react that fast, but at least i know i am about to die). The ambush attack happenes so fast my character doesn't even have time to scream of agony.

iseko

ThyIronFist wrote: »

If you think a spammable, highest damaging, longest range, and cheap skill is perfectly fine. Then I'm sorry but you're an idiot.

There is NOTHING in this game that outranges snipe, no gapcloser can even get close, and from stealth people are able to do 2k+ hits.

Someone I know that was in fulll heavy, got 3-shotted by this crap. Even guildies that play / played a NB with bow consider the curreny state of bows/snipe redicilous.

And dont tell me to L2P or block/rolldodge. If I am sieging a keep, pouring oil, etc, I cant block now can I?

Streak can close that gap awfully quick

Don't be alone, not even on oil. For every 2-3 oilers I try to have 1 (templar) healer with purge. Someone gets sniped, purge -> healing ward -> honour the dead. Snipers just became useless. If you bring large scale battles as an example then it is your raid leaders responsibility to anticipate this crap and healers to do their jobs. Not that you dieing is always healers' fault. But leading and being part of a raid = more then just dur hur hur zerg CHARGE.

And yes, impen/block is your friend if you are alone. So is immovable no matter if you are heavy armor user or not.

QuadroTony

question - armor penetration on the weapon - chance to ignore all ARMOR??? completely?
and where i can get it - only from weapon chant or any sets?

iseko

Durham wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Heavy armor + Purge.

lol heavy armor .. ... Armor in this game is crap ATM... Should have said shields...

Bow is doing to much DPs in PvP right now.. I run Two Hander and Bow ... Bow easily out DPSs my Two Hander this is a bad mechanic since Two Hander requires significant risk when using it.....Melee DPS should always hit harder due to the risk factor involved...sitting on a wall and hitting for 1k damage with no risk is the reason for 3542234556 players using bow...

Hardest tank we got in our guild uses heavy armor. He is a DK stamina build who drops ultimates like they are skittles. Insanely hard to kill. Does not require outside heals to tank big groups.

kijima

QuadroTony wrote: »

do you like my Focused im?

Hey tony, glass cannons in ESO were so last year.

Junipus

Impressive numbers there against NPCs

DDuke

QuadroTony wrote: »

do you like my Focused im?

Marked target, combat prayer, potion, aggressive maneuvers, DK weapon damage buff, gimmick gear & possibly things like Warhorn etc.

I see multiple ways of achieving that kind of damage (all cheesy & gone in 1.6 due to buff changes).

thelordoffelines

Columba wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Well, I'm here fighting this DK who keeps dropping talons.. and um oh I'm suddenly dead.

On recap I rotate camera and see that a sniper stealthed up behind me and hit me with TWO snipes and a poison injection in between.

Here's another scenario:

Getting hit with talons and rune cage at the same time so I can't dodge roll or break free. Then getting sniped by that DK and Sorc = dead.

Point: There's ton's of situations where although you are trying to react to snipers you can't. Or, you are too focused elsewhere to notice them.

Not saying snipe needs a nerf because of those....just saying that's how it happens.

Oh ya, and if you're a vamp Snipe + Camoflauged Hunter is almost enough to take you out when you're on a horse. Then you're helpless while you get bucked off the horse and get sniped 1 or 2 more times.

so you don't think you should die to multiple attackers. i think i see the problem.

Should you be guaranteed to die?

only if you don't know how to avoid snipe.

The quote of you I responded to made it seem like u thought multiple attackers should kill you no matter what.

QuadroTony

DDuke wrote: »

Marked target, combat prayer, potion, aggressive maneuvers, DK weapon damage buff, gimmick gear & possibly things like Warhorn etc.

crit - yes. but basic 992 it only with food and sneak

QuadroTony

DDuke

QuadroTony wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Marked target, combat prayer, potion, aggressive maneuvers, DK weapon damage buff, gimmick gear & possibly things like Warhorn etc.

crit - yes. but basic 992 it only with food and sneak

I have around 960 base I think, will have to check.

Normal sneak crits are around 1.4-1.7k on players.