Getting annoyed by snipe... -__-

Asgari

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

HeroOfNone

Issue with the snipe ability isn't the ability alone. It's a synergy of stealth, range, animation canceling, travel time to target, heal debuff, and homing that lead to it being one of the best single target dps tools in PVP, even better 5 hand the crit generating destro staff super builds. By the time your first shot hits someone the second and third are in the air. This would not be that bad if the stun from stealth didn't have you locked down or the sniper didn't already go back into stealth. I'very seen a lot of requests to nerf it, here and on the forums, but I can't see reducing the damage or abilities making it still viable. Instead, I recommend reducing some of the synergy with other mechanics. This could be done by applying one of the following:

- Make enemies visible when shooting
- Remove the stealth stun for just the snipe ability
- reduce or set in the inability to queue multiple snipes
- allow arrows a chance to miss if a target moves out of line of sight. It doesn't need to be a 100%
- keep enemies in combat and visible for a short time after taking a shot, unless they choose a weaker morph of an ability.

Doing just one of these would probably reduce a lot of folks frustration with bow users while still making snipe and other now abilities good antisiege and back lines dps support

DDuke

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

Please, link some of them
I'm really curious how you kill decent players by spamming snipe.

What I'd especially like to see is a 1v1 fight against a magicka build with 3k+ health, that'd be really fun to watch, or a 1vX situation.

Sure, you can kill players in 2-3 shots and it doesn't require much skill (just the correct rotation), which I'd like to see changed also. But what follows does require skill: restealthing, avoiding detection, killing the next target or escaping (especially if there is someone using stealth detection potions).

As an archer, if you fail to time one dodge roll correctly, you are pretty much dead.

Also, you need to perform & know a lot of tricks if you truly want to be a good bow user (or stealth focused character in general). There's multiple regarding restealthing, dodge roll, skill rotations, gear etc that not many people know.

And this, in my opinion, takes far more skill than holding down right mouse button & rolling your face on keyboard (99% of magicka build "pros") while tanking 20 people, and eventually killing them if they have no healer.

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

Magicka Nightblade here. Very stealth focused. Stamina Nightblades are not stealth focused, they are run away focused.

Most of them are, sadly.

Personally, I try not to run away unless there's a whole train coming at me.

The reason most stamina builds are more run away focused is that there are no tools present for getting through the dmg shield+heal & permablock (and scales) that are present everywhere.

Maybe 1.6 & Champion System will change balance for the better, but based on what we've heard of it, I'll remain pessimistic about that for now.

NO build is currently able to burn down shield+perma block players atm (because def abilities are cheaper and of higher values than dmg abilities). That you expect stamina builds to perform a task that unable to be accomplished at all is an error on your side.

The balance is terrible atm but it is no longer a question of dmg but of making the magica utility usable (and sustainable) for stamina builds.
Edit: So that nobody can kill anyone at all. forgot to add that.

DDuke

Derra wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

Magicka Nightblade here. Very stealth focused. Stamina Nightblades are not stealth focused, they are run away focused.

Most of them are, sadly.

Personally, I try not to run away unless there's a whole train coming at me.

The reason most stamina builds are more run away focused is that there are no tools present for getting through the dmg shield+heal & permablock (and scales) that are present everywhere.

Maybe 1.6 & Champion System will change balance for the better, but based on what we've heard of it, I'll remain pessimistic about that for now.

NO build is currently able to burn down shield+perma block players atm (because def abilities are cheaper and of higher values than dmg abilities). That you expect stamina builds to perform a task that unable to be accomplished at all is an error on your side.

From my side, or from ZOS side?
What this essentially creates, is an environment where you have to play a certain specific type of character to be competitive in PvP.

Some would call this bad game balance (same as one shotting people).

Derra wrote: »

The balance is terrible atm but it is no longer a question of dmg but of making the magica utility usable (and sustainable) for stamina builds.

So the solution is making stamina builds have the exact same playstyle as magicka builds?

I'd like to ask you & other people posting in this topic: how does it take away from your experience, if there were other playstyles, other factors than how much magicka/stamina you have left?

In most games I've played, the combat has felt diverse & interesting because the opponents were focused on different things, requiring a different approach each time. Sometimes you'd have to be aware of a certain CC or a certain execute move, sometimes you'd have to prepare for a long "resource fight", e.g. resto shaman vs holy paladin in WoW (while resto shaman vs rogue or warrior would've played very differently)

In other MMORPGs, it was never only about sustain & 30 min fights that end when one side gets bored first (although they existed as well).

Greagor

i get it.. archers hit from a distance. They must exist in the game. I say go for it.
buuuut... riding my way in cyro for 4 mins to help my team then ganged by an invisible guy NOWHERE to be seen instakilled by 3-4 snipes kinda loses the fun for me. All i want is a chance to fight him. Give him a MISS chance depending the distance and my gear and nerf his damage. They are plenty of cc, they are abilities to get away from me fast, i can find my way to get closer but do not make it unfair. Keep archers in the game but if they want to kill someone like that they need to have SKILLS.

Durham

Teargrants wrote: »

Heavy armor + Purge.

lol heavy armor .. ... Armor in this game is crap ATM... Should have said shields...

Bow is doing to much DPs in PvP right now.. I run Two Hander and Bow ... Bow easily out DPSs my Two Hander this is a bad mechanic since Two Hander requires significant risk when using it.....Melee DPS should always hit harder due to the risk factor involved...sitting on a wall and hitting for 1k damage with no risk is the reason for 3542234556 players using bow...

Asgari

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

Please, link some of them
I'm really curious how you kill decent players by spamming snipe.

What I'd especially like to see is a 1v1 fight against a magicka build with 3k+ health, that'd be really fun to watch, or a 1vX situation.

Sure, you can kill players in 2-3 shots and it doesn't require much skill (just the correct rotation), which I'd like to see changed also. But what follows does require skill: restealthing, avoiding detection, killing the next target or escaping (especially if there is someone using stealth detection potions).

As an archer, if you fail to time one dodge roll correctly, you are pretty much dead.

Also, you need to perform & know a lot of tricks if you truly want to be a good bow user (or stealth focused character in general). There's multiple regarding restealthing, dodge roll, skill rotations, gear etc that not many people know.

And this, in my opinion, takes far more skill than holding down right mouse button & rolling your face on keyboard (99% of magicka build "pros") while tanking 20 people, and eventually killing them if they have no healer.

What's cute is I never said snipe .. I said shots. You know the basic snipe snipe venom arrow spam. Of all people you should know this. You taught many how to do it

Durham

JackDaniell wrote: »

We all know Greatsword is to OP, 1k crit rush + works as stam resty!

1k crit rush I have never been hit that hard with that ability maybe 800... But its fine with me because they are taking significant risks.. Plus melee DPs requires a ton of rolling to avoid the new 64334555 archers ..

DDuke

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

Please, link some of them
I'm really curious how you kill decent players by spamming snipe.

What I'd especially like to see is a 1v1 fight against a magicka build with 3k+ health, that'd be really fun to watch, or a 1vX situation.

Sure, you can kill players in 2-3 shots and it doesn't require much skill (just the correct rotation), which I'd like to see changed also. But what follows does require skill: restealthing, avoiding detection, killing the next target or escaping (especially if there is someone using stealth detection potions).

As an archer, if you fail to time one dodge roll correctly, you are pretty much dead.

Also, you need to perform & know a lot of tricks if you truly want to be a good bow user (or stealth focused character in general). There's multiple regarding restealthing, dodge roll, skill rotations, gear etc that not many people know.

And this, in my opinion, takes far more skill than holding down right mouse button & rolling your face on keyboard (99% of magicka build "pros") while tanking 20 people, and eventually killing them if they have no healer.

What's cute is I never said snipe .. I said shots. You know the basic snipe snipe venom arrow spam. Of all people you should know this. You taught many how to do it

Incapacitate->( start at max. range for max. travel time)Lethal Arrow->Heavy Attack+Poison Injection

There, now everyone can do it (used to deal more damage pre-1.5 btw) :P

Seriously though, I'd even be fine if Snipe (and some other skills) became "skillshot" type abilities requiring aiming (FPS style probably wouldn't work...), since that is the part that requires the least skill in bow playstyle.

But saying the rest requires no skill is ludicrous tbh, considering there are builds that pretty much require you to just hold right mouse button & spam skills (no reactions needed, no situational awareness required, just spam spam spam).

Asgari

Durham wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

We all know Greatsword is to OP, 1k crit rush + works as stam resty!

1k crit rush I have never been hit that hard with that ability maybe 800... But its fine with me because they are taking significant risks.. Plus melee DPs requires a ton of rolling to avoid the new 64334555 archers ..

Melee dps like this should hit that hard because you are up close and personal. Bows shouldn't since they heal debuff and stun as well from up on a wall or hidden behind a rock.

DDuke

If there's something ZOS can take away from this ridiculous thread, it's that stamina melee builds need more love. Pretty much everyone agrees they should hit harder than bows.

(Hey ZOS, how about giving them some melee ability to get past permablock hinthint)

Soris

You can pretty much kill people or giving him loooots of trouble with just spamming snipe in any non 1v1 situation. Endless heal debuff does the job for you.

Tankqull

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

Please, link some of them
I'm really curious how you kill decent players by spamming snipe.

What I'd especially like to see is a 1v1 fight against a magicka build with 3k+ health, that'd be really fun to watch, or a 1vX situation.

Sure, you can kill players in 2-3 shots and it doesn't require much skill (just the correct rotation), which I'd like to see changed also. But what follows does require skill: restealthing, avoiding detection, killing the next target or escaping (especially if there is someone using stealth detection potions).

As an archer, if you fail to time one dodge roll correctly, you are pretty much dead.

Also, you need to perform & know a lot of tricks if you truly want to be a good bow user (or stealth focused character in general). There's multiple regarding restealthing, dodge roll, skill rotations, gear etc that not many people know.

And this, in my opinion, takes far more skill than holding down right mouse button & rolling your face on keyboard (99% of magicka build "pros") while tanking 20 people, and eventually killing them if they have no healer.

What's cute is I never said snipe .. I said shots. You know the basic snipe snipe venom arrow spam. Of all people you should know this. You taught many how to do it

Incapacitate->( start at max. range for max. travel time)Lethal Arrow->Heavy Attack+Poison Injection

There, now everyone can do it (used to deal more damage pre-1.5 btw) :P

Seriously though, I'd even be fine if Snipe (and some other skills) became "skillshot" type abilities requiring aiming (FPS style probably wouldn't work...), since that is the part that requires the least skill in bow playstyle.

But saying the rest requires no skill is ludicrous tbh, considering there are builds that pretty much require you to just hold right mouse button & spam skills (no reactions needed, no situational awareness required, just spam spam spam).

that wont help anything as aiming from safty 40m away eventually stealthed as well is not that difficult...

Tankqull

Durham wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

We all know Greatsword is to OP, 1k crit rush + works as stam resty!

1k crit rush I have never been hit that hard with that ability maybe 800... But its fine with me because they are taking significant risks.. Plus melee DPs requires a ton of rolling to avoid the new 64334555 archers ..

i was once hit with a crit rush for 1056 dmg but im fine with that i´m aswell absolutly fine with beeing hit for 2.1k uppercut from stealth as it actually requires skill to get that attack out. spewing 2.3k snipes from 40+m away is absolutly unbalanced.
and what i do not get to be honest is why does snipe recieve the out of stealth bonus dmg while no other non bow projectile does?

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

Please, link some of them
I'm really curious how you kill decent players by spamming snipe.

What I'd especially like to see is a 1v1 fight against a magicka build with 3k+ health, that'd be really fun to watch, or a 1vX situation.

Sure, you can kill players in 2-3 shots and it doesn't require much skill (just the correct rotation), which I'd like to see changed also. But what follows does require skill: restealthing, avoiding detection, killing the next target or escaping (especially if there is someone using stealth detection potions).

As an archer, if you fail to time one dodge roll correctly, you are pretty much dead.

Also, you need to perform & know a lot of tricks if you truly want to be a good bow user (or stealth focused character in general). There's multiple regarding restealthing, dodge roll, skill rotations, gear etc that not many people know.

And this, in my opinion, takes far more skill than holding down right mouse button & rolling your face on keyboard (99% of magicka build "pros") while tanking 20 people, and eventually killing them if they have no healer.

What's cute is I never said snipe .. I said shots. You know the basic snipe snipe venom arrow spam. Of all people you should know this. You taught many how to do it

Incapacitate->( start at max. range for max. travel time)Lethal Arrow->Heavy Attack+Poison Injection

There, now everyone can do it (used to deal more damage pre-1.5 btw) :P

Seriously though, I'd even be fine if Snipe (and some other skills) became "skillshot" type abilities requiring aiming (FPS style probably wouldn't work...), since that is the part that requires the least skill in bow playstyle.

But saying the rest requires no skill is ludicrous tbh, considering there are builds that pretty much require you to just hold right mouse button & spam skills (no reactions needed, no situational awareness required, just spam spam spam).

that wont help anything as aiming from safty 40m away eventually stealthed as well is not that difficult...

Unless you're trying to hit a moving target

Regardless, it would get rid of "you don't even have to aim" complaints & actually make the skill more engaging & fun to use for bow users.

Win-Win.

murtugo

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I don't think it can be done (1vX)... bow has high DPS but only for a single target. It has no decent AOE. Take away snipe then bow would be useless since it is the core of bow's DPS.

Asgari

murtugo wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I don't think it can be done (1vX)... bow has high DPS but only for a single target. It has no decent AOE. Take away snipe then bow would be useless... I really don't understand why they would say it is OP.

venom arrow, light and heavy attack damage, stuns, heal debuffs, interupts. Bow does a lot more than just 1 high DPS attack.

Grim13

Snipe doesn't stun you... it's the attack out of stealth that stuns.

Why don't all of you QQ'ers go back to the threads where I'm sure you've defended your precious Impulse not being blockable, or, how block casting is skillful and good for the game.

Maybe, you can create a thread about how much skill it takes to have half your group batswarm at the same time... or, how about a thread on abusing the stacking of Blockade of Fire.

The fact that some of you FOTM build abusers can QQ as hard as you are while most likely abusing many of the other "skill-less" game mechanics is beyond me.

Rylana

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Bow takes zero skill. It's by far the worst weapon line for anyone to even attempt and say it takes skill. Furthest range, significant damage, heal debuffs and interrupts.

Really?
I'd like to see a 1vX or 1v1 (against good players) clip from you (or anyone else) utilizing bow, if it takes no skill as you say.
Since it's so "op" and takes no skill, that should be easy, right?

I do have clips. Go back to my NB I stopped using because bow would kill players in 2 shots maybe 3 if they had a bit more health.

Bow is incredibly easy to use. The only time it ever takes any "skill" if you can even say that is timing in between a DKs scales. Otherwise there is ZERO skill involved when sniping a player down from 30+m.

See flappy flap.

Count 1001 1002

Push snipe

Snipe lands right as flappy flap ends.

So amaze

wow

such skill

wow

>_>

Cody

Nacario wrote: »

Ive recently started sniping and it shines when i am in stealth and able to pick of unknowing targets. I consider it a 1v1 when the target is not in battle and on his way from a to b and not involved in a fight with someone else. Often he dies to 3 4 snipes inbetween auto attack/poisoned arrow or with magnum shot if he manage to go for me. Whats baffling is that most of the time my targets are eating the first stun or looking around themselves while spamming their shields and heal. Rarely do I see them blocking appropriatly or dodge out of it. Many dont know how to deal with it and automatically seem to think snipe the godmode it isnt. Ive never once died to snipe when i was magica melee NB in 1v1 as I dont eat snipes willingly. And lets not forget that a Dk and any decent magica class/build with a know how eats snipers for breakfast.

Snipe is actually VERY easy to counter. I CONSTANTLY have players trying to kill me with stealth hits from snipe; only if it instantly kills me will I ever be killed by it.

One just has to pay attention and block/roll dodge when they break the stun. It is not hard.

Now, if one dies from 3-4 snipes regardless, and wants it to stop, then that player needs to equip some armor. And no, Light armor is not armor, it is a dress with some shoes and a hood. That is not even armor. I promise that if one equips Heavy or even medium armor, They will not die to snipe so quickly.

Domander

Mariiana wrote: »

Its not that i really think Snipe and its morphs are super OP or anything, but the fact that soooo many people are using it now really says something. id say nearly 50% or more of the times that i die is due to some sniper just sitting off the the side "ganking" me while im fighting someone else. Now don't get me wrong i think there is a place , even a need, to have "snipers" , Buuuut how snipe is now, it allows any terrible player ( by terrible i mean the players who cant design theyre own build to actually get into the action and not die instantly) the ability to just sit back and spam one button and get kills, which annoys me greatly.

-Rant over

The whole point of snipe is the long range damage.

Snipe gives a whopping (sarcasm) 7 more meters.

If all you can do is sit back and snipe then you're probably going to die fast if anyone attacks you due to lack of skill.

It's funny because many of the same points could be made about 1h and shield.

If all you can do is block and not much else, you'll survive longer, but if you're not very good you won't do much else.

Durham

Tankqull wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

We all know Greatsword is to OP, 1k crit rush + works as stam resty!

1k crit rush I have never been hit that hard with that ability maybe 800... But its fine with me because they are taking significant risks.. Plus melee DPs requires a ton of rolling to avoid the new 64334555 archers ..

i was once hit with a crit rush for 1056 dmg but im fine with that i´m aswell absolutly fine with beeing hit for 2.1k uppercut from stealth as it actually requires skill to get that attack out. spewing 2.3k snipes from 40+m away is absolutly unbalanced.
and what i do not get to be honest is why does snipe recieve the out of stealth bonus dmg while no other non bow projectile does?

Yea I have never been hit with crit rush for more then 900... I believe I was hit with wrecking blow fow for 1100 one time but most of the time they are much lower under 1k... You are right it is 10x harder to hit someone in stealth with wrecking blow...Two hander still needs help and duel wield needs help... The stlyes in sword and board need to generate endo or something the still eat to much endo....

Lava_Croft

Bow: The Dragon Knight everybody can use!

morvegil

I'm still laught at Snipe posts...theres tons of cheap things to kill people....and you *** about the one that probably your build isnt built against. I'm "Sniped" many people and cant kill them, but I Kill many.

morvegil

Columba wrote: »

WebBull wrote: »

Bow is so powerful it is almost required in every build. It should not be this way.

Except against DKs, shields, harness, dodge,block,..........and the 2 dozen other ways that decent players negate arrows. Simply listen for the snipe. Lol I only die once or so a night from snipe or it's variants. Very simple to avoid.

I wish snipe was OP so I could get more kills! ;(

morvegil

Mariiana wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not going to comment about the whole balance issue and what should be changed, because at this point I don't know what the best solution is.

All I can say is, when I'm running around doing my thing and I notice someone sniping me, they automatically become priority #1 on the "MUST KILL RIGHT NOW" list, no matter what the situation, if I don't focus them and kill them, then I'll have a hard time.

Oh that also applies to any templars stacking dark flares on me (which is WAY worse than snipe, just not as popular because it's a class based skill).

Oh yea for sure man, the snipers do become top priority no doubt, but sometimes (usually lately) there's more than 1 , and with my temp not really having bursty damage singling out a target for a quick kill isnt so quick lol

Thats called strategy. Always have reserve army waiting until the fight starts. We often hide 2-5 snipers in a battle till about 30% in...so once the enemy is set in their "Spam block, etc" pattern they get thrown off and insta killed.

Snipers in real life do this, didnt you see American Sniper?

Mariiana

morvegil wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not going to comment about the whole balance issue and what should be changed, because at this point I don't know what the best solution is.

All I can say is, when I'm running around doing my thing and I notice someone sniping me, they automatically become priority #1 on the "MUST KILL RIGHT NOW" list, no matter what the situation, if I don't focus them and kill them, then I'll have a hard time.

Oh that also applies to any templars stacking dark flares on me (which is WAY worse than snipe, just not as popular because it's a class based skill).

Oh yea for sure man, the snipers do become top priority no doubt, but sometimes (usually lately) there's more than 1 , and with my temp not really having bursty damage singling out a target for a quick kill isnt so quick lol

Thats called strategy. Always have reserve army waiting until the fight starts. We often hide 2-5 snipers in a battle till about 30% in...so once the enemy is set in their "Spam block, etc" pattern they get thrown off and insta killed.

Snipers in real life do this, didnt you see American Sniper?

I have no problem with what you have described, that's how snipers should be used.
but still , i think ZoS has made it too easy for people to want to be snipers, like yesterday specifically we had a full raid against another full raid, with us pushing on Sej. but at any given time you could look up on the keep and see no less than 15+ snipers ( not included in the 24+ man raid we were fighting on the ground)....so like i said, they obviously make it too easy for people to want to be snipers.

morvegil

Mariiana wrote: »

morvegil wrote: »

Mariiana wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

I'm not going to comment about the whole balance issue and what should be changed, because at this point I don't know what the best solution is.

All I can say is, when I'm running around doing my thing and I notice someone sniping me, they automatically become priority #1 on the "MUST KILL RIGHT NOW" list, no matter what the situation, if I don't focus them and kill them, then I'll have a hard time.

Oh that also applies to any templars stacking dark flares on me (which is WAY worse than snipe, just not as popular because it's a class based skill).

Oh yea for sure man, the snipers do become top priority no doubt, but sometimes (usually lately) there's more than 1 , and with my temp not really having bursty damage singling out a target for a quick kill isnt so quick lol

Thats called strategy. Always have reserve army waiting until the fight starts. We often hide 2-5 snipers in a battle till about 30% in...so once the enemy is set in their "Spam block, etc" pattern they get thrown off and insta killed.

Snipers in real life do this, didnt you see American Sniper?

I have no problem with what you have described, that's how snipers should be used.
but still , i think ZoS has made it too easy for people to want to be snipers, like yesterday specifically we had a full raid against another full raid, with us pushing on Sej. but at any given time you could look up on the keep and see no less than 15+ snipers ( not included in the 24+ man raid we were fighting on the ground)....so like i said, they obviously make it too easy for people to want to be snipers.

Sounds like medieval warfare...you could say its to easy to be a Sieger....carrying around a Ballista in your pocket and operating it as once person.

I'm not sure why you say its "easy". Its easy to be a DK and spam block/talons/whipe, its easy to be a sorc ans span Bolt/block/shards. Its just a weapon everyone can use...and not everyone is using it.

Wreuntzylla

There is only one truly competitive activity in this game.

Harvesting flowers in Hollow City.