Getting annoyed by snipe... -__-

Rylana

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Sneak attack damage was not nerfed on bows. I figured you knew that. All of us that used snipe prior to 1.5 saw no change in the damage after.

Things like ambush and surprise attack, yeah, but snipe and bow heavy attacks for some reason didnt drop at all.

DDuke

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

DDuke

Rylana wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Sneak attack damage was not nerfed on bows. I figured you knew that. All of us that used snipe prior to 1.5 saw no change in the damage after.

Things like ambush and surprise attack, yeah, but snipe and bow heavy attacks for some reason didnt drop at all.

I'm quite sure sneak attack damage was nerfed, my snipes are critting max. 1.5-1.6k~ from stealth on players with mark (usually around 1.2-1.4k otherwise), while NPCs (which were left out from stealth damage nerf) take the full 2k-2.2k damage.

Lionxoft

Cody wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

So, this guy took your advice of blocking and dodging as did 300 of his best mates...

that was almost dozens of archers.... lol. one cant dodge or block dozens of arrows

I can and do.

Rylana

DDuke wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

Not a lot of people seem to realize, but Snipe (and stealth gameplay as a whole) actually got a pretty significant nerf in 1.5 when sneak attack damage was reduced.
In fact, I couldn't even care if they nerfed it more, since it's such a bad skill these days I'm probably going to replace it with something else anyway.

Another thing not many people seem to realize is that popular/=/good.

Why bows are popular, there's multiple reasons, such as:

• ZOS advertising buffs for stamina builds (while in fact stealth focused builds were nerfed instead, but it's not like these new found snipers know that)
• Removal of forward camps & relative safety of the bow range.

I'd like to know how someone can even die to a single archer spamming snipe, I did the math, and you'd need reaction time of 3-4 seconds to lose against a snipe spammer (human average is 0,25 seconds).

I'd also like to know why dying against multiple archers (or other opponents) is such a bad thing? Did you expect to tank 20 archers & kill them all, like you do againt non-archers with certain magicka builds?

And lastly, I still see more magicka builds (especially flapflap tank everything DKs) than archers in Cyrodiil...

Sneak attack damage was not nerfed on bows. I figured you knew that. All of us that used snipe prior to 1.5 saw no change in the damage after.

Things like ambush and surprise attack, yeah, but snipe and bow heavy attacks for some reason didnt drop at all.

I'm quite sure sneak attack damage was nerfed, my snipes are critting max. 1.5-1.6k~ from stealth on players with mark (usually around 1.2-1.4k otherwise), while NPCs (which were left out from stealth damage nerf) take the full 2k-2.2k damage.

My damage never changed though. Still running a wide range 1.4k-1.8k myself, with the occasional 2k outlier (rare), with heavies sometimes hitting 1.2k.

Same as its been since around patch 1.3 or so. If anything my overall burst damage actually went up since I have a near instant recast on snipe (1 second, counting travel time, essentially instant) vs charging a heavy and releasing. It just seems to have more punch today than in did two months ago.

Derra

Imho the problem is not archers or snipe but the perma stealth gameplay (for every class) in general. People just don´t like the cowards hiding in bushes (or being invisible on plain fields in bright sunlight for that matter).
Snipe unfortunately currently synergizes best with that "shoot someone in the back while he´s distracted" low risk high reward playstyle.

Septimus_Magna

The thing that bothers me about snipe (besides the damage, range and crit from stealth) is that it doesnt reflect of defensive posture. A arrow is a projectile for DK's RS but not for S&B DP, whats up with that?

KBKB

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The thing that bothers me about snipe (besides the damage, range and crit from stealth) is that it doesnt reflect of defensive posture. A arrow is a projectile for DK's RS but not for S&B DP, whats up with that?

Well DKs are OP...

Seriously I can't wait until they get bought back down to ground level all of these arrogant posts and videos that a 4 year old could make face rolling will be no more!

eg:
"Nah bro its totally not OP to be able to spam a reflect with 100% up time from spells, while holding block, then pop my ult and top all my attributes up instantly It's clearly a L2P issue"

Anyone who disagrees is a DK!

Real issue is wtf were ZOS thinking with letting such awful class balance slip through the net.

Septimus_Magna

@KBKB‌

Yes, this is very true but this only gave me a reason to find a way to defeat DKs. It helps that hey usually have easy fights so most of them lack skill. It pretty easy to defeat DKs with a good sorc build without being a vamp.

KBKB

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@KBKB‌

Yes, this is very true but this only gave me a reason to find a way to defeat DKs. It helps that hey usually have easy fights so most of them lack skill. It pretty easy to defeat DKs with a good sorc build without being a vamp.

@Septimus_Magna‌

I started running overload on my sorc, That entire bar is set to the off chance I run into a DK on the field. Also the moment scales drops pop a few light attacks in there and execute.

On my templar which is stam based atm I don't really struggle even though they have a few Vranks above me but still terrible balancing!

Septimus_Magna

I have Arch-Mage + Seducer + Cyrodiil's Light so when DKs put on RS I just spam Mages Wrath to drain their stamina and do a little damage. When they use invasion I streak through them dealing damage and evading talons. When they out of stamina I use crystal frags (and defensive posture) to stun and knock them down. Execute with Mages Wrath and Soul Assault if needed. The most important thing with DKs is keeping at a distance because they're slow. They often use invasion to close the gaps which drains their stamina and makes them vulnerable to crystal frags.

Lionxoft

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I have Arch-Mage + Seducer + Cyrodiil's Light so when DKs put on RS I just spam Mages Wrath to drain their stamina and do a little damage. When they use invasion I streak through them dealing damage and evading talons. When they out of stamina I use crystal frags (and defensive posture) to stun and knock them down. Execute with Mages Wrath and Soul Assault if needed. The most important thing with DKs is keeping at a distance because they're slow. They often use invasion to close the gaps which drains their stamina and makes them vulnerable to crystal frags.

If it's facing 5pc heavy Hist Bark + Footman you won't run them out of stam by spamming MW, light attacks and/or streak. Heck, probably can't even get them below 95% stamina with their soft capped stam and decent recovery. Your Soul Assault and/or curse can be cleansed off as well. I've ran a troll build lately and it often ends up with each person putting away their weapon and just /dance and joke around about it. Some people get upset about it though.

In regards to snipe:
Wear cloth armor? Better pray your block or stam lasts.
Wear medium armor? Better start rolling/evading.
Wear plate armor? Time to have some fun and troll.

QuadroTony

i love players like you

yo uare sweet target for my FOCUSED AIM

Derra

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I have Arch-Mage + Seducer + Cyrodiil's Light so when DKs put on RS I just spam Mages Wrath to drain their stamina and do a little damage. When they use invasion I streak through them dealing damage and evading talons. When they out of stamina I use crystal frags (and defensive posture) to stun and knock them down. Execute with Mages Wrath and Soul Assault if needed. The most important thing with DKs is keeping at a distance because they're slow. They often use invasion to close the gaps which drains their stamina and makes them vulnerable to crystal frags.

On a sidenote not to derail the thread: Mages Wrath/ Endless Fury and Curse can not be blocked and therefor do not drain stamina of a dk (or anyone blocking).

Beerbill

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

I agree so much with you, I perform a stamina+bow build all my stats focus on dmg and I have the poorest health pool ever like 1,8 k, I can get two shot by any sniper but I can do heavy dmg too.

It's like a big risk big reward build, also I cannot spam snipe the whole time since stamina get depleted really fast and it's vital for rolling or cc breaking.

Derra

Beerbill wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

I agree so much with you, I perform a stamina+ bow build all my stats focus on dmg and I have the poorest health pool ever like 1,8 k, I can get two shot by any sniper but I can do a heavy dmg too.

It's like a big risk big reward build, also I cannot spam snipe the whole time since stamina get depleted really fast and it's vital for rolling or cc breaking.

Where is your risk if you´re waiting in stealth invisible to shoot someone in the back who is engaged with another player? Because that is what 90% of the archers are doing (no, shooting people on horses does not count as high risk either).
Its actually more to zero risk if you play it safe and don´t get greedy.

High risk archer. I literally loled

Tankqull

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

nope - i would have signed your statement if you had said "playing a stealth focused MELEE character" but playing with a bow is not difficult at all.

Poxheart

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

That right there is the definition of dramatic irony.

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

nope - i would have signed your statement if you had said "playing a stealth focused MELEE character" but playing with a bow is not difficult at all.

I do agree, playing a stealth focused melee character is even more difficult and the potential benefits when compared to bow simply aren't worth it from Risk vs Reward perspective.

This aspect of the game (stealth melee builds) could use a lot more love from ZOS balance team, but we'll see how things look after 1.6 with Veiled Strike stamina morph etc.

Still, I'll stick to my statement that stealth bow builds also require more skill to operate than the "hold right button & smash face on keyboard" builds currently out there...

technohic

DDuke wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

nope - i would have signed your statement if you had said "playing a stealth focused MELEE character" but playing with a bow is not difficult at all.

I do agree, playing a stealth focused melee character is even more difficult and the potential benefits when compared to bow simply aren't worth it from Risk vs Reward perspective.

This aspect of the game (stealth melee builds) could use a lot more love from ZOS balance team, but we'll see how things look after 1.6 with Veiled Strike stamina morph etc.

Still, I'll stick to my statement that stealth bow builds also require more skill to operate than the "hold right button & smash face on keyboard" builds currently out there...

Arguing over which one requires most skill is kind of silly. If one thing is kind of cheesy, it really is not justified by another cheesy thing. Thats how ZOS got into this predicament of a year long where there is a definite best way to play by rewarding simplistic styles over being creative and working harder for better results.

eliisra

Beerbill wrote: »

I agree so much with you, I perform a stamina+bow build all my stats focus on dmg and I have the poorest health pool ever like 1,8 k, I can get two shot by any sniper but I can do heavy dmg too.

It's like a big risk big reward build, also I cannot spam snipe the whole time since stamina get depleted really fast and it's vital for rolling or cc breaking.

Really...pewpew'ing from roughly 50 meters range, hidden half the time, is high risk?

I dont care how many attributes you have in health, you're still not exposing yourself much by playing ranged in ESO.

High risk is mele without S&B and flappy wings. Extra points if mele stamina build. That's so much risk, the reward is close to non-existent due dozens of bowtards and destro d-bags sucker-punching you outside of gap closer range.

Ghostbane

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

I'm your traditional tanky magicka DK.

The past few days I've been revisiting my bow+2 hander days, and now leveling DW. Absolutely, with the stealth build does take more thinking. A wrong move can get your ass handed to you, and it has.

Roechacca

3 words .... Radiant Mage light

Cody

kijima wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

kijima wrote: »

So, this guy took your advice of blocking and dodging as did 300 of his best mates...

that was almost dozens of archers.... lol. one cant dodge or block dozens of arrows

And dozens of archers is what you have in PvP

so every time you get sniped, its by dozens of archers at once? ok. whatever you say:/

WebBull

Bow is so powerful it is almost required in every build. It should not be this way.

Cody

WebBull wrote: »

Bow is so powerful it is almost required in every build. It should not be this way.

no that's shield

DDuke

WebBull wrote: »

Bow is so powerful it is almost required in every build. It should not be this way.

I love your sarcasm :P

Columba

WebBull wrote: »

Bow is so powerful it is almost required in every build. It should not be this way.

Except against DKs, shields, harness, dodge,block,..........and the 2 dozen other ways that decent players negate arrows. Simply listen for the snipe. Lol I only die once or so a night from snipe or it's variants. Very simple to avoid.

Joy_Division

DDuke wrote: »

KBKB wrote: »

Snipe takes skill and is defs not OP - Any bow user on the forums.

Skill=hold block & spam heal/dmg shield button - Anyone else in the forums

I'm going to get LOLs for this from the flapflap DKs & other magicka builds, but playing a stealth focused character actually takes a lot more skill than playing one of those "lolol I tank 20 people and can't die" builds.

There's several reasons for that:

• You are squishier and can actually die, which means you have to time dodge rolls perfectly & have a good reaction time.
• To actually get kills (unless playing with 12 other archers), you don't spam snipe. Spamming snipe gets you no kills (unless opponent is a potato). There are ways of "one shotting" (read: getting past eternal block+dmg shield/heal) people, while spamming Snipe takes a minimum of 3-4 seconds to kill someone at full health.
• You need situational awareness as a stealthy character, you cannot rush in & expect to kill the whole enemy raid. You have to actually take your targets 1 by 1 and relocate yourself when you draw attention, or risk dying.
• One missed button press or a stroke of bad luck likely means your death, so there is no room for mistakes.

Yep, it takes a lot of skill pew-pewing distant low health targets from stealth. Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

Grim13

Poxheart wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What I'm getting annoyed by is the horde of QQers here on the forums.

That right there is the definition of dramatic irony.

..Only his post isn't a play, film, or literature... and therefore is not the definition of dramatic irony.