Sun shield. BIG FAIL.

Brandoid

Iam_Epiphany wrote: »

To get this thread back on topic, the answer is to nerf DK survivability, or to buff survivability for the other 3 classes...not just templar.

It's clear each of the classes has their own kind of survivability despite

Iam_Epiphany wrote: »

Iam_Epiphany wrote: »

At the very most, Blazing Shields debuff should be changed to be in line with bolt escape, preventing in some fashion the ability being spammed over and over.

However, removing the debuff from Blazing Shield would just create a second reflective scales, which is a move in the wrong direction...unless you're going to remove the debuff from bolt escape and fix dark cloak's bugs without debuffing it.

Look at me, quoting myself 'n' stuff.

Blazing shield and reflective scales cannot be compared on a level field because they're too different in how they take and give back damage.

Current;y blazing shield is a difficult skill to use effectively without combining many other magicka regeneration sources such as resto staff, harness magicka, channel focus, potions, set bonuses, and food buffs.

Bashev

Brandoid wrote: »

Current;y blazing shield is a difficult skill to use effectively without combining many other magicka regeneration sources such as resto staff, harness magicka, channel focus, potions, set bonuses, and food buffs.

I can say the same thing for Reflective scale. Currently if you want to use the skill effectively you should use certain builds.

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO

TheBucket wrote: »

arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »

Paladin_echo1 wrote: »

After more careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that this update is a good thing for the Templar and makes them more on par with the Dragonknight.

Now as for EVERY other class that has a problem with this. Nightblade is the only person who should really be complaining. Nightblade is still underpowered at the current time. With a Templar and Honor the dead, you can almost stand there and laugh at a NB while you prep some other skill or await allies to destroy your target. Normally heal 1.1k and purposely wait for my HP to reach that "sweet 30%" then purposely heal to troll that person because I know they have little to no moves left to use. So what if a NB hits you with marked target? f you are a good Templar you keep Purify ready which takes off this debuff in an instant. I kept running into this situation MANY times. And playing on my Nightblade, it just sucked when it was the other way around on every class. Don't get hit by a Crystal Shard or run into a DK or Templar with a Nightblade out of stealth. It will be painful.

Sorcerer should not complain at all. I spotted a sorc the other day with 4.1k HP. He was tanking over 20 people and was terribly unkillable when using his bolt escape. He had a teammate too which I think added to his magicka. Seems to be the more common thing for sorc to have a teammate that will pass them extra magic. If that was not enough, 1.1k Crystal fragments 3 times in a row. Sunshield OP? Go talk to that sorc. This is better balance. That and it will help improve all those lesser skills on Templar that are just not that effective by improving only ONE skill. I think that is kind of genius because you only have to fix one skill rather than fix them all which takes up time they don't have to keep up with all the complainers.

After they fix the lesser skills on Templar, that's when I think they may want to reconsider this change.

Guys.... really, you should try more builds and techniques against DKs. The truth is Templar can kill easily NB and DKs right now if you use sun shield effectively.

The only skill that make DK really OP right now is reflective scale but that skill doesn't affect much NB and melee templars.

Templar >>> NB/DK (1vs1 situations).

You would never beat me easily, let alone beat me at all. Sorry but this comment is just dumb. If you would like to prove your amazing feats please feel free to accept the challenge

I accept with pleasure :-) but only with one condition. When we finish the duel, you will come directly to forums to say the result.

I don't want to prove my "amazing feats" (I don't consider myself a pro player), I only want to prove that Sun shield is OP against melee players.

EU Megaserver, Auriel's bow campaign, Nickname Debon.

TheBucket

Brandoid wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

@TheBucket‌ Join Legend? You'll have lots of players to prove yourself against then.

I am in Legend.. I've dueled over 300 times already

Nice. Unfortunately I am not sure what will happen once the campaigns get condensed. Right now the guild relies on dead campain pop to hold duel sessions in peace, but that may not be possible anymore unless they add some official duel functionality, otherwise dueling will become a pain for any moderate size duel group.

We can always make FCamps and burn them right away. Also rezzing each other might be in order and donating gold for soul gems maybe

Brandoid

TheBucket wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

@TheBucket‌ Join Legend? You'll have lots of players to prove yourself against then.

I am in Legend.. I've dueled over 300 times already

Nice. Unfortunately I am not sure what will happen once the campaigns get condensed. Right now the guild relies on dead campain pop to hold duel sessions in peace, but that may not be possible anymore unless they add some official duel functionality, otherwise dueling will become a pain for any moderate size duel group.

We can always make FCamps and burn them right away. Also rezzing each other might be in order and donating gold for soul gems maybe

The problem is the size of the duel sessions as well. We make swords on the map and that attracts players. Soul gems are not abundant enough to sustain duelists when duelists are dueling and not running through dungeons. I used over 100 in less than five days after the fixed darkshade.

Francescolg

Just for info: You do not "make swords" as duelists if you meet in a dungeon
It is nice to see that many pleayers do not see Blazing Shield as OP. You'll find in 1v1 and on Bomber-Teams, that play a very unimodal way of playing the game.

BugCollector

Yeah, sun shield doesn't need a buff.

What Templars DO need is a higher dps and better magicka regeneration.

Suggestions:

1. give Sun Fire better damage
2. give Dark Flare the ability to instant cast like Crystal Fragments has

Springt-Über-Zwerge

BugCollector wrote: »

Yeah, sun shield doesn't need a buff.

What Templars DO need is a higher dps and better magicka regeneration.

Suggestions:

1. give Sun Fire better damage
2. give Dark Flare the ability to instant cast like Crystal Fragments has

Yes Id definitely use this Dark Flare. Dark flare as it is now is just vs templars for 1v1 fights in my skillbar. And then ill just use it if i knock the enemy down with binding javelin else theyd just use instabe core an i hit myself

But I think they did the Buff for Sun Shield because of the new caps for regeneration. It would be a nerf for this ability if they raised the caps without removing the regeneration debuff. Maybe they should have just made it reduce the regeneration by 50%. If youre at the soft cap after 1.3 the 50% are more than it reduces now but it would be still good for tanks with low regeneration.

olsborg

I just took 3143 dmg from someone spamming Blazing shield, dont ask me how they did it, because I dont know, I just know its pretty stupid. Hitting someone for that amount of dmg in one hit shouldnt be possible now matter what class you are.

Yes, do buff it, look how much fun it will be.

CPT_CAPSLOCK

It just returns 53% of the dmg u did to the templar, dont hit him and u are fine

olsborg

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

It just returns 53% of the dmg u did to the templar, dont hit him and u are fine

Thats pretty good advice, being pvp and all, "hes got an ability that he can practicly spam for a good while, just dont hit him"

To me that screams op already, atleast dont make it more op. I know how the shield works, thats all fine, but when youre able to spam it and stack it like that or whatever...something is wrong. Any ability that can do 3k+ dmg in one instant, needs looked at, specially since its an aoe.

danno8

olsborg wrote: »

I just took 3143 dmg from someone spamming Blazing shield, dont ask me how they did it, because I dont know, I just know its pretty stupid. Hitting someone for that amount of dmg in one hit shouldnt be possible now matter what class you are.

Yes, do buff it, look how much fun it will be.

Nobody thinks anyone should be able to do this. But this is a strange bug that already exists and needs to be fixed.

Changing the magicka requirement however will have no affect on this bug, and is a separate discussion really. Just like the reflective scales bug draining DK resources is a bug and is separate from other balance arguments for that skill.

CPT_CAPSLOCK

danno816_ESO wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

I just took 3143 dmg from someone spamming Blazing shield, dont ask me how they did it, because I dont know, I just know its pretty stupid. Hitting someone for that amount of dmg in one hit shouldnt be possible now matter what class you are.

Yes, do buff it, look how much fun it will be.

Nobody thinks anyone should be able to do this. But this is a strange bug that already exists and needs to be fixed.

Did ZOS say that it's a bug?

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

Brandoid wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

yes, its possible to hit people for insane damage with it, but its an exploit.
happens when you use it and someone activate another shield on you.

Incorrect. It's not an exploit because you can't make it happen whenever you want. Definitely a bug though. See this.

u can, and its not even an exploit needed. I reported it long time ago, but they dont care about. There is also a little chance that they think it is working as intended, cause it's just the weird game mechanic.

probably it's a bug, but who knows what ZOS is thinking

JLB

Same opinion as poster above. Blazing Shield is a key part of my build in PvP, and I can assure you normal hits are 400ish (with 3k Health, almost softcapped Spell damage and 40% crit), and rare crits go up to 800ish, even more rare to reach 1k. As far as I remember, I only critted around 1k very, very, few times in the past 4+ months of daily playing in Cyrodiil, and that was probably against some greenies with not enough Spell resist or Impenetrable gear.

There is a bug/exploit that allows you to stack different shields, and that is why you are getting 3k hits. You can figure out where you can find the bigger shields to stack it.
But I never have, never will, use the exploit. I also don't use the unbreakable CC bug, even if I know how to do it because there's nothing more pathetic than trying to EZmode stuff.

So please, blame it on the exploiters of the bug, not the ability itself. And please, /bug this, and post screenies on Forums but treat it as it really is: an exploit.
Hopefully this gets fixed asap.

EDIT: and there was yet another exploit that allowed you to increase all your damage and ability effects, Shield Damage included, but that was fixed. Hopefully this is not a case of someone who found a way around to reproduce it.

Beleron

How is it OP ?
here is the reasoning.
1. previous use before this change.
You could make a templar tank with decent crit.
You could spam blazing shield to do damage, use a 2h for some charges and other knock downs ect. When ur about at 10% magica, you hit blinding flashes, well using that your light armor regens magica, along with a pot if used.
At this point your near full magica, you can use blinding flashes again, or just blazing shield.
Now, theirs no reason to bother with blinding flashes. Stack magica and magica regen, and spam the hell out of sun shield. Expecially with the new higher soft caps. As sun shield / blazing shield uses MAGICa, U CAN STILL ... use stamina to charge, stun, cc, knockdown, using a 2h, or swapping to a bow to shoot them.

We need to fix the useless skills, its like nightblades summon shade morph, that summons 2 shades, which u cant control, do *** damage and attack the same target so u cant have them debuff 2 targets. Every class has useless skills, sun shield and its morphs is ALREADY USEFULL FOR BUILDS. Why are they wasting time fixing whats NOT BROKEN, and actually fix the useless crap so we can make more diverse builds. Yes there will be a way to counter it, but it doesn't mean its any less OP. There was ways to counter vampiers stacking bat swarm 10 times over, didn't mean it was easy or any less OP.

PLEASE NO NOT, let this go live. Stop messing with skills that work, and fix the ones that don't. OR RATHER, try nerfing all aoe damage done to players no all your pvp isn't just a huge aoe fest. Cyrodil has become one of the worst, most boring, pvp area's in any game in the last 5 - 10 years because once again, u stand there and spam aoe...

STOP FIXING WHAT ISN'T BROKEN AND FIX WHAT IS BROKEN.

many will say, there working hard to make it better, give them credit.... NO.
THERE WASTING TIME messing with things that already work because the devs really like them and that's THERE play styles there improving. Instead of fixing what actually sucks. Where paying our subs because we want a game that's worth the monthly sub. So far its not. Its just going to follow tera at this rate.

Beleron

Skill cost to me 224 magicka and I have 91 magicka recovery, It's mean that I can use infinites blazing shield before run out of magicka if I only use this skills against a melee player.

also. remember this will all change was soft caps increase and we get more vet ranks. OH and mage guild skills can swap hp for magica so...

Natjur

brianbhfb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Skill cost to me 224 magicka and I have 91 magicka recovery, It's mean that I can use infinites blazing shield before run out of magicka if I only use this skills against a melee player.

also. remember this will all change was soft caps increase and we get more vet ranks. OH and mage guild skills can swap hp for magica so...

Max level will be L50 soon (vet ranks getting removed and replaced with champion points

Beleron

they actually said they would remove vet ranks, add champ points but that vet ranks would become NORMAL LEVELS

so v12 will be 62
so that exp gain is the same as when ur 1-50, since in vet ranks u got *** all for exploring and certain other things, when u used to pre vet.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

I just took 3143 dmg from someone spamming Blazing shield, dont ask me how they did it, because I dont know, I just know its pretty stupid. Hitting someone for that amount of dmg in one hit shouldnt be possible now matter what class you are.

Yes, do buff it, look how much fun it will be.

If attack "weaving" is not an exploit to be fixed, but skill as it's "supporters" saying, so damage shield "weaving" is not an exploit either, and doesn't need to be fixed.

And since every attack weaving supporter says "L2P" I will do the same. L2P mate.

JackDaniell

olsborg wrote: »

I just took 3143 dmg from someone spamming Blazing shield, dont ask me how they did it, because I dont know, I just know its pretty stupid. Hitting someone for that amount of dmg in one hit shouldnt be possible now matter what class you are.

Yes, do buff it, look how much fun it will be.

A crit like that is called a freak shield crit. In my time playing as a Templar since beta I have only hit someone for 2700 with blazing shield and that only happened once. My next highest hits are around 1500 (Note that I was running a build designed to get bshield to hit that hard, and even then it was extremely inconsistent). Normally a Templar build to hit hard with blazing shield will hit around 1000 on crit IF burning light procs and they are surrounded by many opponents.

Now regarding a 3k shield crit, it cannot be replicated. Shield stacking does NOT increase the damage that a blazing shield does. To my knowledge and the knowledge of my guilds this cannot be reliably recreated. The only way to make this skill hit harder would be to stack things like the mages guild passives (+20% damage for next spell) together, and that can be done for any offensive spell in the game.

CPT_CAPSLOCK

So, cause the bug is not fixed, nor did they say it is one and theres a chance, that it is working as intended. I think i do not act against the "dont talk about xploits" rule if i poste this vid here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI35iMbXfE
Cause of the fact that Templars are weak vs ranged targets, it could be a thought to cap the dmg at ~1,5k, but let it work like that.

Xsorus

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

So, cause the bug is not fixed, nor did they say it is one and theres a chance, that it is working as intended. I think i do not act against the "dont talk about xploits" rule if i poste this vid here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI35iMbXfE
Cause of the fact that Templars are weak vs ranged targets, it could be a thought to cap the dmg at ~1,5k, but let it work like that.

Works like the Heal DK's have on Burning Embers then.

Basically with Burning Embers based on the amount of damage done when the ability ends you get healed for like 30% of it.

If you spam Burning Embers, or Just keep applying it before it ends, then let it run out, you'll get a massive Heal from it.

arkansas_ESO

Brandoid wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

This buff will make templar running sun shield infinitly and unkillable with light armor sinergy.What's the point on buffing it if you want balance?

They will definitely not be unkillable. Will I be able to keep sun shield up indefinably? Only if you let me.

Oh boy, as a DK I've used near exactly those words in defense of Reflective Scale. I can already see where this is going.

Cyberdown

All squabbling aside.

I do agree with the OP's assessment that balancing shouldn't be making a classes one great skill better...it should be focused on how to make skills that suck and or are never used more relevant and better overall. *not saying Templar has only one great skill but you get my point...

I want to be torn between multiple skill builds. Right now it seems that theres one good idea path for most classes, with a possible secondary path that works almost as good...and a few painful builds that just don't really work...

fix what doesn't work well, then worry about making what does work well different or better if needed.

danno8

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

So, cause the bug is not fixed, nor did they say it is one and theres a chance, that it is working as intended. I think i do not act against the "dont talk about xploits" rule if i poste this vid here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI35iMbXfE
Cause of the fact that Templars are weak vs ranged targets, it could be a thought to cap the dmg at ~1,5k, but let it work like that.

After watching the video I am able to reliably replicate the "bug". I was able to get 1500 non crit blazing shields and I only had 2000 health.

The key is you must not allow the blazing shield cashout to actually hit anything when you refresh it, so the enemy must be at range, and stay at range, and must not use any attack that is great enough to burst the bubble before you can refresh it.

I still believe this is unintended by the devs, perhaps no one has bothered to report the exact mechanics to them so they can exploit it, I don't know. Nevertheless I have now bugged the exact conditions in game.

JackDaniell

danno816_ESO wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

So, cause the bug is not fixed, nor did they say it is one and theres a chance, that it is working as intended. I think i do not act against the "dont talk about xploits" rule if i poste this vid here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI35iMbXfE
Cause of the fact that Templars are weak vs ranged targets, it could be a thought to cap the dmg at ~1,5k, but let it work like that.

After watching the video I am able to reliably replicate the "bug". I was able to get 1500 non crit blazing shields and I only had 2000 health.

The key is you must not allow the blazing shield cashout to actually hit anything when you refresh it, so the enemy must be at range, and stay at range, and must not use any attack that is great enough to burst the bubble before you can refresh it.

I still believe this is unintended by the devs, perhaps no one has bothered to report the exact mechanics to them so they can exploit it, I don't know. Nevertheless I have now bugged the exact conditions in game.

This needs to be fixed now. Thank you for posting the video, but im not sure its a good idea to leave it up.

olsborg

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

And since every attack weaving supporter says "L2P" I will do the same. L2P mate.

I think the whole point of my post, and this thread has "wooshed" right by you. L2R. (read)

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

olsborg wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

And since every attack weaving supporter says "L2P" I will do the same. L2P mate.

I think the whole point of my post, and this thread has "wooshed" right by you. L2R. (read)

Sarcasm is something unknown to you it seems. Did you read my whole post?

demonlkojipub19_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

CPT_CAPSLOCK wrote: »

So, cause the bug is not fixed, nor did they say it is one and theres a chance, that it is working as intended. I think i do not act against the "dont talk about xploits" rule if i poste this vid here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjI35iMbXfE
Cause of the fact that Templars are weak vs ranged targets, it could be a thought to cap the dmg at ~1,5k, but let it work like that.

Works like the Heal DK's have on Burning Embers then.

Basically with Burning Embers based on the amount of damage done when the ability ends you get healed for like 30% of it.

If you spam Burning Embers, or Just keep applying it before it ends, then let it run out, you'll get a massive Heal from it.

Maybe if burning embers prevented damage in the first place, and hit AOE.