Impulse Exploit - Zenimax Read

Ifthir_ESO

galiumb16_ESO wrote: »

While I can appreciate the view that CU is being over hyped for how far away it is, but your frothing at the mouth about a game so far away is different in what way?

Who is frothing at the mouth? I am pointing out how unrealistic it is to say "This game is going to be the best" when it isn't even close to ALPHA yet.

People said that about Duke Nukem and look how that turned out.

Lowbei

good games are built by two things

money and vision

most games nowadays only have money

CU has vision

theres where your hype comes from, and it is well justified based on the past performance of mark jacobs

and no, warhammer doesnt count since EA took over during development and completely ruined its potential.

Bramir

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

Isaiha wrote: »

so why is every *** player in wabba using impulse than if it was working as intended

I tried out impulse in pvp a month ago and it hits like splashing someone with warm water, with the added fun that you have to get close to use it. Sure if you encounter an organized group who are all using it you will die if they get close enough...but who stands there and lets the zerg run over them and expects to live? If they weren't killing you with impulse it would be something else...and they would do it from range.

Without impulse spam, yes, our group can stand up to an incoming zerg and when it hits us we survive and wipe them over half the time.

Seriously, the enemy alliance is not a scripted boss for you to fight that you will beat every time or people start rage quitting. You are going to have to change tactics to beat them...the horror lol

bsheffield2008ub17_ESO

lost IQ clicking on this post

Anazasi

looked to me like a BOT raid just running around nuking ***. I'm surprised it took this long for someone to watch them and realize how effective it could be. Shame I guess Impulse will be next for the nerf bat.

sevcik.miroslaveb17_ESO

AOE tactic is dumb as hell. I want aim to be take into account and I want longer fights. Comeone this game has sieges of keeps and stuff like this just shout out laud that this deserves medieval feeling!! Not AOE spam to resolve battle in a few seconds. Tactics, movement of troops and good timing should have more impact. Because seriously if you attack zerg AOE swarm from behind and they just keep spaming they will still kill you even though you had the element of surprise.

I really would like to see AOE to be channeling spell that drains magicka at high rate and with no AOE cap. If you decide to AOE army you should be open and vulnerable to attack as a trade off.

And yes it would be way more tactical. Pick a good place (trap) and your mages and archers will shower the enemy with arrows and fireballs.

Talons are also ***. It should root only one target and only the one you are targeting.

Rylana

Best dk tactic ever

Chain someone off a wall, then talon them

Hilarity ensues.

Imperator_Clydus

Isaiha wrote: »

Ebonheart Pact Groups are currently the ones utilizing this exploit in Wabbajack NA server.

The exploit is pretty much self explanatory: raid groups consisting of 20 or more players use Impulse (Destruction Staff Ability) and that's all they use. They spam it while running and can completely wipe a large group of forces in 1.5 - 2 seconds. No joke. They have pretty much utlized this exploit and taken almost every keep/castle/fort and have taken just about every scroll by using impulse. Everyone uses this ability and can wipe raids easily without breaking a sweat. Spam 1 button, win game.

This is a major exploit needing fixed ASAP.

An exploit is when an ability is broken or misbehaving in such a way that the developers did not intend. Impulse isn't broken. It is, on the other hand, a very silly ability that ZOS should have reconsidered.

The issue you are trying to address is more along the lines of a lack of AOE diminishing returns. An individual impulse, by itself, is a rather worthless ability. The issue lies in the fact that many players are building groups where they all use the ability simultaneously.

Due to the fact there is no diminishing returns for stacking AOEs, such as impulse, you see a large group disintegrating 50+ players in a matter of seconds. Other AOEs such as dark talons, standard of might, the bolt escape morph, nova, etc. are also stacked very often.

Most of the whining you will hear about Dragonknights and Sorcerers is because these two classes, in particular, have great utility for building these AOE bomb squads. ZOS has been slowly addressing the popular fire mage spec, and at some point, it will likely be nerfed to the point of not being nearly as effective.

Welcome to PvP in MMOs. The "skilled PvPers" always gravitate to the FOTMs in order to further boost how amazing they are. Once their spec gets nerfed enough into the ground, they'll leave the game, as is the general trend in most games.

ThyIronFist

Once again the baddies unite and call everything that kills them an exploit, and that it needs to get nerfed.

1. Don't run into an impulse group
2. Don't run into an impulse group
3. Repeat step 1 and 2

Sure impulse is powerful, especially if multiple people spam it - but it is working as intended. It's just bad designing.

Sile

I tbh do think Impulse needs a nerf, but not because it's a broken skill or hard to deal with in more ideal situations. It's my reasoning that it needs a nerf because the effectiveness of it compared to the difficulty of its use is skewed.

Honestly, I just think the radius on it needs to be tweaked, since it is disgustingly effective for the amount of effort it takes in areas where 90% of PvP combat takes place - keeps.

Out in the field, it's fine, but once around a keep, particularly the smaller outpost type keeps, there isn't enough room to effectively maneuver around a giant aoe train, or defend a static location like a flag.

TLDR: Impulse needs a minor nerf in range because it's too effective for its difficulty level.

TLDRx2: Impulse = ezmode

Ethyem

5 pages about this. For real? How much does impulse crit? 400? Well, combustion, impale and conduit crit for up to 700 for a heal templar with no spellpower enchants and conduit can be used by more than 1 player. Our 24-people group rarely have more than 3 pulsars and just for its effect, because overall impulse is so-so comparing to other combat capabilities.
And generally for a fight between equal opponents (normal groups with voice communication, not running with bows in heavy at least i mean) ultimates, cc, surprise effect and movement decide outcome of it.

Infraction

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Once again: you can breakout of negate.
It also has an aoe cap.

stop praising it as the god given solution to everything, all it does is might confuse pugs a bit and buy you a bit of time. Against a fireball zerg it does very little.

Negate shuts down enough healing and damage spam to give a window of opportunity to shut the train down.

6 people stopping to breakout is enough of a window? Come on now

Because only one person ever runs into a stacked group?

Need to quit looking at a large group versus large group situation as you versus 12 people.

quakedawg_ESO

Saw all 3 sides last night throwing out a LOT of Impulse spam. HUGE zergs from both DC and EP clashed. Tons O' fun. Keep it up!

kirnmalidus

I don't think Impulse is currently working the way devs intended. The various versions of the Pulsar morph (based on different elemental damage types) are stacking the debuffs.

I confirmed this last night, and it includes the health decrease debuff. This is stacking from the different Pulsar damage types and it isn't something you can heal through.

Some have suggested Negate as a solution, we tried it and it doesn't work. Please also be aware that we are not a "disorganized zerg" as some have implied getting run over by these impulse/pulsar spammers.

This "tactic" is being referred to as the "Rainbow Train" or "*** Train" (I know the forum is going to edit that, so one of the things Molag Bal is the god of) in Cyrodiil, because the mixed elemental damage versions of Pulsar is key to the debuffs stacking in a way that I just can't believe the devs intend it to be.

Lowbei

lol i love hearing zergers complain about other zergers.

protip, stop zerging and your problem goes away

Morticielle

Lowbei wrote: »

translation : "we were bad and died to aes"

Correct translation would be: "We have no clue how to break CCs and have the movement of a 97-year old great grandma, so we stand all together while a bomber-group charges into our midst."

And now some advise your parents should have given you: L2P!

P.S.: I think that you are observing your fights as bad as you play PvP, because this group surely has used CCs and Bat Swarm too.

Zintair wrote: »

Can't wait for Camelot Unchained. Although I am enjoying this for now through all the issues.

Yeah, I'm interested too, but I have certain doubts, because Marc Jacobs is known to be a jawsmith.

kirnmalidus

Morticielle wrote: »

Lowbei wrote: »

translation : "we were bad and died to aes"

Correct translation would be: "We have no clue how to break CCs and have the movement of a 97-year old great grandma, so we stand all together while a bomber-group charges into our midst."

And now some advise your parents should have given you: L2P!

You clearly don't understand the issue. CC break doesn't work when you are fully immobilized with stacked immobilization that shouldn't stack.

Halrloprillalar

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Once again: you can breakout of negate.
It also has an aoe cap.

stop praising it as the god given solution to everything, all it does is might confuse pugs a bit and buy you a bit of time. Against a fireball zerg it does very little.

Negate shuts down enough healing and damage spam to give a window of opportunity to shut the train down.

6 people stopping to breakout is enough of a window? Come on now

Because only one person ever runs into a stacked group?

Need to quit looking at a large group versus large group situation as you versus 12 people.

What? The cap for negate is 6, doesn't matter what YOUR group size is, ONE negate will only stop (briefly) SIX people from enemy side, or until the first purge hits. Unless you suggest every sorc uses it at once but I'm 99% sure the effect doesn't stack with itself.

There is no brake on the impulse train.

kirnmalidus

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Once again: you can breakout of negate.
It also has an aoe cap.

stop praising it as the god given solution to everything, all it does is might confuse pugs a bit and buy you a bit of time. Against a fireball zerg it does very little.

Negate shuts down enough healing and damage spam to give a window of opportunity to shut the train down.

6 people stopping to breakout is enough of a window? Come on now

Because only one person ever runs into a stacked group?

Need to quit looking at a large group versus large group situation as you versus 12 people.

What? The cap for negate is 6, doesn't matter what YOUR group size is, ONE negate will only stop (briefly) SIX people from enemy side, or until the first purge hits. Unless you suggest every sorc uses it at once but I'm 99% sure the effect doesn't stack with itself.

There is no brake on the impulse train.

Negate doesn't stack, and you have to time it perfectly with the Impulse/Pulsar spam for it to work at all in this situation. As you pointed out, it is NOT a viable solution for stopping the Rainbow Train.

Infraction

kirnmalidus wrote: »

I don't think Impulse is currently working the way devs intended. The various versions of the Pulsar morph (based on different elemental damage types) are stacking the debuffs.

I confirmed this last night, and it includes the health decrease debuff. This is stacking from the different Pulsar damage types and it isn't something you can heal through.

Some have suggested Negate as a solution, we tried it and it doesn't work. Please also be aware that we are not a "disorganized zerg" as some have implied getting run over by these impulse/pulsar spammers.

This "tactic" is being referred to as the "Rainbow Train" or "*** Train" (I know the forum is going to edit that, so one of the things Molag Bal is the god of) in Cyrodiil, because the mixed elemental damage versions of Pulsar is key to the debuffs stacking in a way that I just can't believe the devs intend it to be.

That is something that should and I would expect will be fixed.

Halrloprillalar

ThyIronFist wrote: »

Once again the baddies unite and call everything that kills them an exploit, and that it needs to get nerfed.

1. Don't run into an impulse group
2. Don't run into an impulse group
3. Repeat step 1 and 2

Sure impulse is powerful, especially if multiple people spam it - but it is working as intended. It's just bad designing.

Because there is nothing people love better than leeroying into an impulse zerg, right, it's not like they chase people or anything?

Short of making our own impulse train for keep/flag defense there is no defending them against a rainbow assault.
I'm trying to work on my group recruiting skills as of always.

P.S. I never called it an exploit, but the mechanic of rainbow debuff stacking is absurd in pvp and should really be looked at.

Infraction

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Once again: you can breakout of negate.
It also has an aoe cap.

stop praising it as the god given solution to everything, all it does is might confuse pugs a bit and buy you a bit of time. Against a fireball zerg it does very little.

Negate shuts down enough healing and damage spam to give a window of opportunity to shut the train down.

6 people stopping to breakout is enough of a window? Come on now

Because only one person ever runs into a stacked group?

Need to quit looking at a large group versus large group situation as you versus 12 people.

What? The cap for negate is 6, doesn't matter what YOUR group size is, ONE negate will only stop (briefly) SIX people from enemy side, or until the first purge hits. Unless you suggest every sorc uses it at once but I'm 99% sure the effect doesn't stack with itself.

There is no brake on the impulse train.

Negate doesn't stack, and you have to time it perfectly with the Impulse/Pulsar spam for it to work at all in this situation. As you pointed out, it is NOT a viable solution for stopping the Rainbow Train.

I still go back to my original statement. Its not one person versus 12 just like its not one ability versus all of them they are using. Widen your scope of abilities more.

Halrloprillalar

Infraction wrote: »

kirnmalidus wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Infraction wrote: »

Halrloprillalar wrote: »

Once again: you can breakout of negate.
It also has an aoe cap.

stop praising it as the god given solution to everything, all it does is might confuse pugs a bit and buy you a bit of time. Against a fireball zerg it does very little.

Negate shuts down enough healing and damage spam to give a window of opportunity to shut the train down.

6 people stopping to breakout is enough of a window? Come on now

Because only one person ever runs into a stacked group?

Need to quit looking at a large group versus large group situation as you versus 12 people.

What? The cap for negate is 6, doesn't matter what YOUR group size is, ONE negate will only stop (briefly) SIX people from enemy side, or until the first purge hits. Unless you suggest every sorc uses it at once but I'm 99% sure the effect doesn't stack with itself.

There is no brake on the impulse train.

Negate doesn't stack, and you have to time it perfectly with the Impulse/Pulsar spam for it to work at all in this situation. As you pointed out, it is NOT a viable solution for stopping the Rainbow Train.

I still go back to my original statement. Its not one person versus 12 just like its not one ability versus all of them they are using. Widen your scope of abilities more.

Then please suggest something other than making our own rainbow train/oilcamp.

HazardousNovex

People who spam impulse make me laugh, I just drop my banner, talon them and spam the synergy button, they're dead within 3 seconds. Why do people complain about this stuff, I mean seriously? People who run around in light armour with destro staffs are so easy to kill, they are literally giving AP away.

You need to find yourself a good group that has good healers, and then you should have no problem with this.

Rylana

ive never been a fan of the term zerg being used this way.

A zerg is a planned attack with overwhelming numbers, it comes from the zerg rush of starcraft. A cheese strategy of all or nothing. But it worked more than it ever lost.

In this game it seems to describe any large uncoordinated mass of players running in the same general direction.

Zerg does not mean what you think it means.

Halrloprillalar

Ethyem wrote: »

5 pages about this. For real? How much does impulse crit? 400? Well, combustion, impale and conduit crit for up to 700 for a heal templar with no spellpower enchants and conduit can be used by more than 1 player. Our 24-people group rarely have more than 3 pulsars and just for its effect, because overall impulse is so-so comparing to other combat capabilities.
And generally for a fight between equal opponents (normal groups with voice communication, not running with bows in heavy at least i mean) ultimates, cc, surprise effect and movement decide outcome of it.

It's not so much the damage component that I find a problem with, but the max-health debuff morph stacking across the three different elemental versions.

yodased

Abilites to use against Impulse spam off the top of my head

Green Dragon Blood: Heals glorious heals
Dragon Fire Scale - 10-12 DK using this against an impulse zerg should be enough to kill most of them.
Cinder Storm - yes limited to 6 but multiple cast from multiple people will get them all. Slow them 70% gives a chance to kill
Magma Shell - Obvious skill is obvious
Volcanic Run: If they are zerging, they will stick together, have multiple people throw down volcanic rune in venn diagrams of stunning goodness
Bone Surge: 60% health regen from synergy is nice
Immovable Brute- CC immunity FTW
Dawnbreaker of Smiting - if the are vamps this skills rulez
Rearming Trap: Once again if vamps very good and CCs one of them

Kajoh_Americano

Limitless wrote: »

There are many abilities that are able to counter impulse.
Yes, Impulse is still a fantastic move especially when used together in a group but if you had an organized group you guys could throw down some Negate Magic bubbles, keep the heals up, drop an oil pot on the ground, or just impulse back. There are obviously more options than what I just listed but those came to mind the fastest.

Armitas wrote: »

Removed.

(Sorry, I am hesitating to release the counter)

It's no secret : the counter is negate magic, it's a sorc ultimate.

The problem is...a real, organized group will have immovable slotted somewhere on their bar and essentially be immune to any form of CC/silencing. Nothing wrong with it, that's what our alliance does.

Halrloprillalar

Kajoh_Americano wrote: »

Limitless wrote: »

There are many abilities that are able to counter impulse.
Yes, Impulse is still a fantastic move especially when used together in a group but if you had an organized group you guys could throw down some Negate Magic bubbles, keep the heals up, drop an oil pot on the ground, or just impulse back. There are obviously more options than what I just listed but those came to mind the fastest.

Armitas wrote: »

Removed.

(Sorry, I am hesitating to release the counter)

It's no secret : the counter is negate magic, it's a sorc ultimate.

The problem is...a real, organized group will have immovable slotted somewhere on their bar and essentially be immune to any form of CC/silencing. Nothing wrong with it, that's what our alliance does.

Exactly, all I see is immovable/barrier/maneuver and impulse spam from a 20+ blob running over anything in their path, can't even be slowed down due to purges. Good work getting that many people with them skills, I'm jelly.

LFM AD rainbow train pst, must have pulsar and immovable. Bonus cookies if you can heal and spam purge or maneuver.

Lowbei

"zerger problems" are usually solved by not zerging