Best Of
🚨Werewolf NERFS Incoming on PTS Week 3🚨
This can be found here on the first page: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691762/update-50-pts-week-2-summary/p1 / no animosity towards the developer who posted this (in fact, we are VERY THANKFUL of the continued commentary and heads up) though I wanted to relay this message for everyone that would appreciate the heads-up and chance to provide additional feedback for the proposed changes.
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I wanted to break down the problematic areas with this (AGAIN):
"quite a bit of solid testing that was shared there in regards to this"
-their "solid testing" was unfortunately a set of 1 v 1s where they never once proved opponent gear or loadout (referring to player-comment under 'previous'/hidden quote).
"We are taking a pass at addressing some of the power level feedback from the Werewolf, in addition to some other visual elements" and "wanted to give a quick note that we are addressing some of this and will continue to evaluate feedback after the changes made next week as well"
-the agenda is 'one bar can't be strong'. If they don't start "high", when the inevitable nerfs come in on PTS week 3 despite lack of solid proof (mixed with the fact that these are already heavy-handed given the same thread mentions they are reigning in overpeforming sorc class-mastery passives unrelated to werewolf strength itself), the 'continued evaluation', AND at least one wave of live where -I'm sure- we are all expecting some nerfs will come in the following live patch nearly independent of actual, effective power level...
I fear werewolf may end up in yet-another longstanding and weakened state. We gained and we lost with these werewolf changes (the rework)- removing strengths and leaving weakness will easily lead back to this if done in a heavy-handed fashion such as 'just remove werewolf from class mastery' and/or 'just add ~to monsters~ on the tooltip'. (source: me, a person that has excelled in PvP with the 'worst spec' in the game for YEARS now and isn't simply looking for 'OP/meta swap' buff)
*edit: quick, friendly reminder that my perspectives and feedback are my own and do not necessarily represent the 'werewolf community' as a whole. Please try and maintain a ~level~ of respectfulness when navigating this post and remember it is still ~okay~ for someone to have an opinion/viewpoint ~other~ than your own.
Just wanted to follow up here. We do have some changes for all three items listed above coming in Week Three Patch Notes. We are taking a pass at addressing some of the power level feedback from the Werewolf, in addition to some other visual elements. Full notes on Monday, but wanted to give a quick note that we are addressing some of this and will continue to evaluate feedback after the changes made next week as well.Re(d)acted wrote: »Werewolf Power Level - You spent a lot of time in this post addressing all the visuals discussion around WW, but what about the extensive feedback about the power level? Especially in regards to WW benefiting from class mastery passives and being a bit too oppressive with certain ones active. Would be really good to hear if the team is going to consider further adjustments here. The main feedback thread devolved into a mess of back and forth, but there is quite a bit of solid testing that was shared there in regards to this.
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I wanted to break down the problematic areas with this (AGAIN):
"quite a bit of solid testing that was shared there in regards to this"
-their "solid testing" was unfortunately a set of 1 v 1s where they never once proved opponent gear or loadout (referring to player-comment under 'previous'/hidden quote).
"We are taking a pass at addressing some of the power level feedback from the Werewolf, in addition to some other visual elements" and "wanted to give a quick note that we are addressing some of this and will continue to evaluate feedback after the changes made next week as well"
-the agenda is 'one bar can't be strong'. If they don't start "high", when the inevitable nerfs come in on PTS week 3 despite lack of solid proof (mixed with the fact that these are already heavy-handed given the same thread mentions they are reigning in overpeforming sorc class-mastery passives unrelated to werewolf strength itself), the 'continued evaluation', AND at least one wave of live where -I'm sure- we are all expecting some nerfs will come in the following live patch nearly independent of actual, effective power level...
I fear werewolf may end up in yet-another longstanding and weakened state. We gained and we lost with these werewolf changes (the rework)- removing strengths and leaving weakness will easily lead back to this if done in a heavy-handed fashion such as 'just remove werewolf from class mastery' and/or 'just add ~to monsters~ on the tooltip'. (source: me, a person that has excelled in PvP with the 'worst spec' in the game for YEARS now and isn't simply looking for 'OP/meta swap' buff)
*edit: quick, friendly reminder that my perspectives and feedback are my own and do not necessarily represent the 'werewolf community' as a whole. Please try and maintain a ~level~ of respectfulness when navigating this post and remember it is still ~okay~ for someone to have an opinion/viewpoint ~other~ than your own.
Wuuffyy
12
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 2 Summary
I still hold that Werewolf should have access to Class Mastery buffs. Without those, there's no reason we shouldn't continue to Subclass.
Re: Update 50 PTS – Week 2 Summary
Please don't nerf WW too much, there's a lot of bad actors in here trying to remove all relevancy for werewolves for one reason or another. Please don't take Major Courage away, just give healers more of a reason to exist besides one buff from one set. That's not healthy gameplay either, and don't forget PvE when balancing werewolf due to PvP concerns. We still have no access to Weapon Passives after all.
With that said though, I like what I see here. Thank you so much especially for the adjustments to the glowy markings! This feels like a happy medium that should largely please most people on both sides, those who liked the markings and those who didn't, while also solving the issue of not knowing when Rampage was ready. This is a perfect solution IMO.
And yay blue Pack Leader! This is great for me. Excited to see the other animation changes and the like too.
With that said though, I like what I see here. Thank you so much especially for the adjustments to the glowy markings! This feels like a happy medium that should largely please most people on both sides, those who liked the markings and those who didn't, while also solving the issue of not knowing when Rampage was ready. This is a perfect solution IMO.
And yay blue Pack Leader! This is great for me. Excited to see the other animation changes and the like too.
coop500
8
Re: SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE
robertlabrie wrote: »At least this is the last "test" (or so we're promised) and when U50 drops inJune they'll kill off 3 classic Cyrodiil campaigns (RIP Blackreach) and we'll never have to go into Vengeance ever again. it's regrettable that ZOS continues to run these "tests" by disabling the popular classic gameplay - I still can't fathom why they insist on upsetting and alienating players - but at least it's almost over. Five more days of this garbage then never again.
Killing Blackreach is a huge mistake. The overflow of people trying to get into grey host are going to have nowhere to go while they wait in queue.
Re: SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE
Why is it so unfathomable to you guys that people want the real thing and not another test?JustLovely wrote: »Then why are you here saying you won't play vengeance while at the same time promoting it?
Why aren't GH players storming the PTS server every time they put GH up on it?
I can only speak for myself here, but I am not a lab rat or paid beta tester. ZOS can manage their own testing or offer compensation in some form that doesn't cost them a dime like some special mount or crowns or any of about 1000 things to encourage us to do their "testing" for them....but they don't. Beyond that, a long time ago I was using the PTS and there was a massive problem where the PTS info crossed over into the live game and totally borked my game for about a month. I'll never touch the PTS again after that.
To me it really does look like you just maintain an unreasonable degree of animosity towards the PvP community you used to be a big part of but no longer are.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
For one of the weaker necromancer class masteries why not make use of death knell passive (WITH A GRAVE LORD ABILITY SLOTTED Increases your Critical Strike Chance against enemies under 33% Health by 20%)
Since the necromancer class doesn’t have an execute maybe a class mastery that makes All necromancer class (or just grave) abilities have an execute scalling of 300/400% to enemies under 33%
Since the necromancer class doesn’t have an execute maybe a class mastery that makes All necromancer class (or just grave) abilities have an execute scalling of 300/400% to enemies under 33%
Kleoxcv
3
Re: SUPRISE ! People dont like VENGEANCE
I logged out of Vengeance at 10:50 AM after looking at the leaderboards. EP had 94 on the board, AD had 34, and DC had 43. EP had 30-40 with over 100k AP, AD had 3, DC had 3.
I left with 50k AP and number 12 for AD after an hour.
Because of the double AP and no Faction lock, people have overloaded EP because numbers win fights. Its basically not much fun for AD or DC, so they switch or log off. It is hard to make a good/bad conclusion if people like Vengeance. But is easy to conclude that people don't like fighting a ratio of 3-1 or 4-1.
I left with 50k AP and number 12 for AD after an hour.
Because of the double AP and no Faction lock, people have overloaded EP because numbers win fights. Its basically not much fun for AD or DC, so they switch or log off. It is hard to make a good/bad conclusion if people like Vengeance. But is easy to conclude that people don't like fighting a ratio of 3-1 or 4-1.
Re: DK PvP way, way, way OP , and of course now they are running in packs
@React , @CameraBeardThePirate great points as always. So it takes even less skill than I imagined, just mash the buttons in order and the game will line them up.
I still think this is terrible gameplay, players skulking around way out of melee reach, in a crowded battle then leaping in with 40-50k area effect damage despite any resists/crit resists.
However obviously if you look around Zerodil now there are a ton of players on DKs and none of them want to give up their fun.
I've said before, if ZOS serves cheese, we eat cheese. In other words I'll probably have to dust off my DKs and join the crew
I still think this is terrible gameplay, players skulking around way out of melee reach, in a crowded battle then leaping in with 40-50k area effect damage despite any resists/crit resists.
However obviously if you look around Zerodil now there are a ton of players on DKs and none of them want to give up their fun.
I've said before, if ZOS serves cheese, we eat cheese. In other words I'll probably have to dust off my DKs and join the crew
Re: Should 4v4v4 (3 Teams) Battleground mode become permanent again?
4v4v4 is still mostly bad.
1) Unless things have changed, group queue doesn't function. The matchmaking algorithm takes exponentially longer for 3 teams.
2) If you get lost and separated from team, you get mowed down 2v1, it's basically the same as getting spawn camped.
3) If you die, it takes too long to return to the fight. Take the wrong portal or your team is too far and you get hunted down again.
4) Damage is so high that it's very easy to die in this subclassing meta, so you get the Cyrodiil problem where you are constantly dying and running to get back into the action. It's worse in 3 teams because the "safe territories" are not obvious and you can't see your teammates on compass or minimap unless you have addons.
5) It's more clear why you win a 2 team battle, at least when the game was better balanced (nowadays count the number of DKs). It's less clear in 4v4v4 which is mostly chaotic unbalanced battle royale. Sometimes its fun but it's random and you don't have that much control over winning or losing. Winning because you run around to flags and hope the other 2 teams are distracted, or there isn't some psycho hunting you down, is really unsatisfying and not winning.
5) Chaosball was terrible, people exploited terrain glitches to hide the ball and it devolved into a 2-team match.
Positives of 3 teams: I can see 3-teams working for exclusively Capture the Relic, I had the most interesting matches and victories there. Map designs for 3-teams are more interesting, more dedicated talent developed them at the time of Morrowind DLC.
1) Unless things have changed, group queue doesn't function. The matchmaking algorithm takes exponentially longer for 3 teams.
2) If you get lost and separated from team, you get mowed down 2v1, it's basically the same as getting spawn camped.
3) If you die, it takes too long to return to the fight. Take the wrong portal or your team is too far and you get hunted down again.
4) Damage is so high that it's very easy to die in this subclassing meta, so you get the Cyrodiil problem where you are constantly dying and running to get back into the action. It's worse in 3 teams because the "safe territories" are not obvious and you can't see your teammates on compass or minimap unless you have addons.
5) It's more clear why you win a 2 team battle, at least when the game was better balanced (nowadays count the number of DKs). It's less clear in 4v4v4 which is mostly chaotic unbalanced battle royale. Sometimes its fun but it's random and you don't have that much control over winning or losing. Winning because you run around to flags and hope the other 2 teams are distracted, or there isn't some psycho hunting you down, is really unsatisfying and not winning.
5) Chaosball was terrible, people exploited terrain glitches to hide the ball and it devolved into a 2-team match.
Positives of 3 teams: I can see 3-teams working for exclusively Capture the Relic, I had the most interesting matches and victories there. Map designs for 3-teams are more interesting, more dedicated talent developed them at the time of Morrowind DLC.
Re: Bug Reports for Cyrodiil Champions (Vengeance Campaign)
I've noticed that some players are unable to bring equipped Guild Tabards into the campaign.
Some people seem to be able to queue in with them without issue and maintain their equipped tabbard and its respective guildtag, but some people, like me, seem to have the tabbard automatically unequip itself when queueing in. I haven't been able to deduce any specific circumstances that cause this, but it seems to be consistent (e.g. every time I queue in my tabbard is always removed, some other players never have it removed).
Some people seem to be able to queue in with them without issue and maintain their equipped tabbard and its respective guildtag, but some people, like me, seem to have the tabbard automatically unequip itself when queueing in. I haven't been able to deduce any specific circumstances that cause this, but it seems to be consistent (e.g. every time I queue in my tabbard is always removed, some other players never have it removed).
