Firstmep wrote: »

warm_blanket wrote: »

Interesting changes to the nb masteries. Some additional feedback (recall we're competing with subclassing & now the upcoming u50 pvp environment in general here)...

Eye for Exploitation: you doubled the values Appreciated, but the battlespirit tag is unneeded and should be removed. Players will not sit in execute range like a dummy, they heal back up, so the actual benefit of this passive is lower than the big number implies against live opponents. If anything a decent change to this would be to move a portion of the value upfront, and keep the rest as execute. Say +300 wpn/spell dmg with up to 2.2k in execute.

Above and Beyond: Same issue here, the battlespirit tag should be removed. In practice the +35% crit dmg cap is negated by crit resist so w/o battlespirit this option reduces to +25% cdmg/healing. Lot better than 5% (lol) but so far wouldn't give up subclassing for it.

Nocturnal Inspiration: Decent but again it didn't compare against subclassing for me. It would need some other bonus, like mag/stam/hp return whenever the effect procs.

Evasive Trance: Like the idea but it's just not practical at all. Did not enjoy being locked into spamming nb abilities to get what is essentially a diceroll dodge with poor odds. The duration is far too short for deliberate usage and it does nothing against half the damage you get hit by. This would be much better if it worked more like old mist form. eg 50% dmg reduction for 3 seconds on a 10s cooldown would be actually usable.

Subclassed skills and passives dont get this wierd battlespirit treatment so neither should pure class passives imho.

I 3rd this. Subclassing may not have access to our class passives but they have access to the full scope of our skills and baseline passives. Those mechanical combinations deliver sky high power and versatility.

If we're going to combat subclassed builds we need to be able to reach similar power scaling as they have. This makes even more sense when we consider that practically every class is still subject to OG class limitations that subclassed builds can bypass.

None of the Mastery passives in any class should have a Battle Spirit reduction.

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

Is this a joke? Have you even read the post? You'd never reach NBs crit damage cap + NB doesn't have any burst or "one shot potential"|, stop complaining about NB if it's just a class you don't like and want it nerfed

You will get to the cap quite easily actually. NB was reaching 100% crit damage easily pre subclassing, reaching the new cap will be easy.

Ele sus 10% crit damage
Warden is getting 20% crit damage buff
Arcanist has 20% crit damage buff
Mora’s scribe thesis 12% etc
Monomyth 20%
Possible 18% crit damage buff from champion points
Minor force 10% crit damage

There are way more sources of crit damage I haven’t even included

You need 180%+ crit damage to reach crit cap in pvp atm, you'll never reach it unless you are doing this intentionally which doesn't make sense because other damage buffs would give you more, you'd never reach crit cap in a normal circumstances, please stop trying to get NB nerfed because you don't like the class

* Minor force - 10%
* Major force - 20%
* Hemorrhage - 10%
* 3x Medium Armor - 6%
* Fighting Finesse - 8%
* Khajiit - 12%
* Class Mastery - 5%
* Shadow Mundus 11-18%
* Backstabber 10%
* Ele sus 10% (players are always spamming it)
* Warden 20%

I am counting 129% + the base 50% = 179%
I didn’t even include sets here. Not to mention 1000 (2000 in PvE) more weapon and spell damage

I am not saying it should be nerfed. I’m just saying it doesn’t need further buffs. 2 tap play styles aren’t fair or fun especially from an ambush type class. But ZOS is buffing thing playstyle and then comes people like you complaining that it’s not enough “buff it more ZOS” come on

How does warden affect pure NB? Or are you talking about group builds? NB is useless there, it's all wardens
Also nobody runs backstabber but just for the sake of it I'll give it a pass. So 159% which is nowhere near crit cap since there is a crit resist in pvp. Why would you include sets if nobody runs crit damage builds? And even if they do it's pointless, there are sets that give damage done% or regular starts higher than crit dmg, they are obviously better

What "2 tap play styles" are you talking about? NB doesn't have any and didn't have since around 2019. Please explain your words or stop trying to get class nerfed simply becasue you don't like it. Even 25% crit dmg and 2500 execute wpd wouldn't help NB to reach DK or sorc, but you somehow say that laughable 5% crit damage will. Animal+restoring+assassination is nowhere near new DK, but they have more crit dmg and OP skills unlike trash shadow and siphoning skill lines, how would 5% crit help?

I don’t know if you have amnesia but we all remember how broken pure NB was before subclassing and this was like 2 years ago not 2019.

You are acting like crit resistance didn’t exist back then, it did, and pure NB was still 2 tapping people, now it can get even more crit damage and 1000 more w/p damage

The fact that you are comparing it to the new DK says a lot. New DK is strong as it should. New warden will be strong as well and so on.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Kleoxcv wrote: »

@Urzigurumash 😂

@Prionyx On a serious note though NB is easily the second/third best pure class. It had one shot potential prior to class masteries, now it has even more crit damage.

They increased the NBs crit damage cap, now even on all impen you will be getting hit like you aren’t wearing any crit resistance

If NB is one of the best in class, then why do we not see it in PvP?

Because subclassing that’s why. Why do you think every broken subclass build incorporates NB? Because it’s weakest? How can a class with 1 shot potential prior to class masteries be the weakest?

Damage on the NB is fine. My problem with a NB is that it’s squishy

You dorks keep bringing up subclassing builds as if that matters for a discussion on the pure class masteries being terrible. Yeah no *** when you combine assassination with animal companion and storm calling its strong, but that isn't pure nightblade. That very explicitly includes a number of damage buffs and passives which pureblade doesn't have access to.

The masteries are supposed to help the pure classes compete with subclassed meta junk in both pve and pvp, and nightblade's masteries are so heavily nerfed in pvp that they do not. Why does a mastery exist which is only 20% effective vs players?

When are we going to hit Font of Power or Wildfire Embers with -80% effect while battle spirit is active?

You all need to remember that the masteries are there to make it worthwhile for a NB to want to keep shadow, and for a non-soulcleaver or non-healer NB, siphoning.

😂 dorks? Why a personal insult? Anyways if you can read you can see I was just answering a question. Why we weren’t seeing pure NB or Pure classes in general.

Damage wise pure NB is 2nd or 3rd.

Survivability wise that’s a different conversation, but it can hide. I don’t know why ZOS don’t just give the class a reliable Major resolve

I posted this on another thread but the pets should be put on a world line of summoning and go pet less as a class. So tired of the fight about it and needing to run them to attempt real damage. They’re also annoying in group content visually.

Also don’t disagree about the damage ceiling but until they nerf the arcanist the 170m parse isn’t going anywhere, so other classes need to match that.

Empower [Feedback]: Thanks to many of the discussions and breakdowns of popular use cases, we’re making some adjustments to the values for certain effects that saw a reduction in power after the combat calculation changes with Damage Done to Monsters. Most of these are not huge bumps in power that immediately make them as strong as they were in all cases (since the loss of power is still highly subjective to many factors) but should help them feel more competitive with other bonuses. Empower is the most notable increase, going from 70% to 100% - but will come with a stipulation that the damage bonus will no longer apply while the effect holder has Battle Spirit, to correct some of the extreme damage possible against players in PvPvE situations. We are also not increasing every bonus, namely Velothi, as its power offered is still quite dense even after the changes.

Emphasis mine but... Heavy Attack builds aren't welcome in PvEvP areas now?

Empower is basically the only reason Heavy Attack builds function because... as you know, it has a outrageously massive buff to damage vs PvE monsters. Oakensoul release was an easy way to have 100% uptime, so it was basically the base build... now there's Rakkat's Voidmantle for +50%, but it's harder to use due to swapping resource restore method. Stacking them is the absolute peak of heavy attack damage at present.

Remove Empower from Imperial City, and Heavy Attack builds are completely gutted for an area full of PvE mobs... is the interaction with players not ideal? Of course. But how often does this edge case actually happen? 1/50 encounters in Imperial City? Cryodiil Guards get exploded by all players, so it's hardly based around them. And even when it does rarely happen, the Heavy Attack build is pretty much fodder into PvP content... the absolute BEST[ one can do is deliberately try to bait a player into being atop a NPC when your final heavy attack tick goes off. If not, you get jumped and die pretty much without resistance. Even if you DO kill them, they're not going to stand atop a NPC next time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this already been addressed with multiple nerfs to Lightning Heavy Attacks already? They used to splash damage for every single tick, now it's only the final tick. Wasn't that for the same damn reason? Almost all your damage is single target unless mobs are high enough HP for the heavy to fully complete AND they have to be all clumped together. I don't see any sign those changes are being undone, this is just being dumped on top. I won't even touch upon the 'bugged' multiplicative damage being adjusted so it's getting weaker as a whole.

All in all, I would've considered PvP Zone Empower to be the lowest of the low issues to focus on. Subclassing is even stronger, it's not being adjusted. Why can a Arcanist/Templar/Nightblade beamblitz through Imperial City, but my heavy attack damage is being gutted? The extremely oppressive PvP builds are apparently fine (Charm removes all character control, all you did was try to fix it bugging people through terrain). Is the new small-scale PvP area full of hundreds of clumped mobs or something where Heavy Attack builds are gonna dominate or something?

What's the rationale here?