heaven13 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

[snip] The only ones to blame are those who don't see anything but the meta and force others to use it, but I'll tell you a secret: TESO isn't about the meta. It's about the uniqueness of characters. And the more opportunities there are for diversity, the more likely it is that you'll find the most effective one. Are the developers to blame? No, because balance is impossible. [snip] The division into classes didn't allow you to be who you wanted to be. When will you understand what this game is about, stop aiming for the meta! Play for fun and collect what you want to be.

Out of curiosity, how much experience do you have for the "you can bring any build you want to high-level content and it'll be great!" idea? Particularly when thinking about "high-level content" as vRG HM and above?

Honestly, I don't feel like responding to same argument time and time again. Lemme just quote from a different thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I’m over the “but but but you don’t have to play meta!” argument we see everywhere, even from the devs. It reeks of someone who doesn’t touch endgame content trying to explain endgame content to people who are very experienced in that.

The meta build is obscenely more powerful than anything else, full stop. If you are not bringing the meta, you are coming to your group admitting that you are playing in self-nerf mode and that you don’t care about them enough to contribute properly.

There is a difference between "perfect balance is impossible" (which is true) and "the balance is so bad that one single setup is easily 50% more effective than the second best" (which is currently also true). Are you implying that it's impossible to narrow that gap? And the Combat Team, since Subclassing dropped, has tried the following to balance the game:

• neuter DK sustain
• force Sorcs to use pets (partially reverted)
• disallow ultigen passives from stacking
• throw a single bone to Necros in U48

...that's about it. Are you suggesting that this is a sufficient amount of work done to balance the game because "lol it's impossible"

If the game wasn't made for people who play endgame, then why does it have endgame activities!?!?! The game is made for all of us. Balancing Subclassing would not have made your life any different, and you could still have picked and chosen whatever build you wanted. But the way it came out completely decimated endgame and started driving them off.

...I'm sure you don't care about the exodus of endgamers though. Because you think that ESO, like Skyrim, will always be there for you to solo with. So go ahead, try to play Legends right now and tell us how that goes.
Because ESO, like Legends, is a live-service server-based game, unlike the TES mainline games. That means once enough players leave and Microsoft decided it's unprofitable, that they'll pull the plug. I'm shocked to see the number of people who play ESO exclusively solo who celebrate endgamers getting fed up and leaving, because every person who leaves is one fewer thread keeping ESO active. It's like you're celebrating the very thing that'll kill what you love too.
[edited to remove quote]

You're right about everything, except for one thing. Endgame doesn't need meta either. Endgame can be played without meta, and it's more interesting because the mechanics are not skipped. You don't need these damage numbers for Endgame. Instead of criticizing ZoS for adding multi-class, you should criticize them for making the game more difficult by focusing on meta. However, I highly doubt that they are actually creating content based on meta. After all, they constantly stream how they complete veteran content using completely different builds. All they need is communication and knowledge of mechanics. Not casual damage numbers.

I see you didn't actually answer the question. Do you play endgame content, particularly vRG HM and above content? If yes, are you running and/or leading groups that allow non-meta builds?

I can't believe that it took me this long, but this is the end result of the "toxic casual" attitude taking over, as was predicted in the prophecy of Brother Nefas, Rest in Peace. Players complained they couldn't compete in the high CPM bracket and that HMs were too inaccessable, and ZOS gave us arcanists. Now you have a high dmg, low cpm spell that requires you to cast a high dmg heal that further boosts damage in NOT 1, BUT 2 WAYS to get the most out of it, oh and it also protects people who don't know what ground dmg looks like from being damaged.

Then, idk, RPing dks complained they couldn't go to the party, so we gave everyone beam? How did any of this get past the meeting room? Way to go.

Its like the crappiest trend in MMOs, and none of them seem to be able to avoid it. I really hope the mid-game community enjoys gentrifying Solstice. Maybe they'll name a Starbucks after you and put it up next to the wayshrine.

"FREE NPC PARSE INSTRUCTION WITH ANY PURCHASE FROM THE CROWN STORE."

Barf.

I wish the option to restart/redo zone quests after they have been completed was an option. Because the game doesn't guide you from the base game with all the quests in order, many quests get missed and can not be completed. I'm not looking for the rewards at the end of the quest. I want to complete the entire story from Coldharbor, (the beginning) and go through each zone and DLC in order. I want the whole story line from beginning to end without missing quests. I do not want to create a new character to accomplish this either. It is daunting going through websites and add-ons to get this completed as well. I've done this and am still missing main quests that I can't complete. Example, I can not complete 'The Dark Mane' because I completed Reapers March prior to Malabal Tor. When I finished the quest, 'Restore the Silvenar', I picked up 'The Dark Mane' which takes me back to Reapers March. When I get to Fort Grimwatch, the quest icon just floats where the NPC, Englor, who is supposed to be standing outside the entrance. This NPC is missing and I can't move forward because I've already completed the zone. After looking further, I have missed 7 quests that are completely gone, The Dark Mane, Eye on Arenthia, Hallowed to Grimwatch, Hallowed to Rawl'kha, The Champions at Rawl,kha, To Moonmont, and To Saifa in Rawl,kha.

It is my 'HOPE' that we can someday restart all zone quests in the game from the start without having to create a whole new character. And that there is a better guide that takes us from the starting quest in the base game through each zone and DLC in proper order. I realise this is not for everyone. But there are those of us that love the lore, the stories and actually read & listen to the NCP dialogue, as well as read the books. And when quests get missed lke this, I for one, just feel cheated.

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

redlink1979 wrote: »

Blackyack wrote: »

(...) Why even have classes? why have stats? why have gear? If we're all gonna wear the same stat, the same 4 sets, the same spells from the same 3 different lines...like what is going on? (...)

And just to add that, yet again, I’ve been seeing more old players returning, & players running about all through every zone (PSEU) but I’ve been told that my ‘anecdotal’ observations don’t count - whatever. 🤷🏻‍♀️

again, you can keep saying you see x y or z, but there are real metrics on this, and people left and continue to leave as evidenced by ACTUAL NUMBERS. So, yeah, your anecdotal reports do not count, and frankly, are ridiculous, this game is a ghost town.

MoonPile wrote: »

Hey look, it's me! Moonpile quoted me!

I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but at this point I'd rather they not add map lead furnishings at all, instead of dangling the lie they can be acquired in front of low information players. I would rather the dev time put into these essentially non-existent furnishings be invested anywhere players can actually benefit from. Even if that means we're shorter seven furnishing assets per expansion going forward.

High information players like the people who have posted in this thread have been burdened with being the bearer of bad news for people who aren't looking at the forums. I've had to tell guildies and friends "Don't bother with trying to get a Colovian Tapestry, Worn unless you're okay spending 7.5 million gold on a single furnishing. And even if you do, you can't buy it from a vendor afterwards. Treat it like it doesn't exist." To which they respond, "Why is it like this?" And I have to answer, "I have no idea. Zenimax says this is working as intended, but that's all."

Or worse, they go, "I bet it's not that bad. Let me try with just a few treasure maps," and then an hour later they come back half a million gold shorter and nothing to show for it except anger and disappointment. My best friend said to me the other day, "This is why I won't do housing in ESO. I hate it when the game lies to me."

It's miserable. I feel an obligation to not let them make the mistake Moonpile painstakingly and expensively tested at length, but it makes me a joykiller and sometimes a project killer when they have to abandon their idea because it hinges on a single furnishing that just isn't available. It's worse than the Battleground achievement furnishings that realistically no decorator is going to see because at least in their futile short-lived struggles to acquire those, they will be making gold instead of wasting it.

It's comparable to "You wasted fifteen dollars buying the Curse of Vampirism off the Crown Store? I would have bitten you for free" levels of scamming and punishing low information, low community integration players. And that was already indefensible. What is the business case for punishing this category of players so expensively, that Zenimax keeps doing it over and over across the years? Does the business case for punishing this category of players actually justify the development time spent on the furnishing assets?

Just... stop. Please. Housing is hard enough for players to get into already, without the incredibly discouraging knowledge that some categories of furnishings secretly aren't available.

Orbital78 wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

Orbital78 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?

Maybe they would enjoy a less laggy and more balanced experience rather than the current state. PVD is a more enjoyable experience right now.

Maybe my PVE builds would stop getting decimated because they cannot use battle spirit as well.

Your builds were nerfed because they were overpowered in PvE. PvP had nothing to do with it.

false

It's true tho. As much as a vocal group of PvE players want to gaslight the community that PvP are responsible for everything bad in PvE, an overwhelming majority of balance changes done in PvE throughout eso history are done because of PvE, not PvP.

aetherix8 wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

On the other side of the coin, why are PvE players so keen to get rid of the existing PvP when they don't play PvP at all?

What if PvEers did try to PvP, got lagged to death, got ballgroup-steamrolled over and over, got bombed on every ram, flag, or door-repairing, got farmed countless times by players abusing broken sets, and simply figured they had better things to do if there is nothing really fun about the current Cyrodiil? Too bad though, because ESO PvP would be quite engaging if it weren't so broken on so many levels.

Are PvEers wrong to ask for a PvP mode where they stand a chance and one they enjoy? No, any person can post any wish here on the forum (within ToS ofc). There's nothing wrong about zergfest either, as long as zergs are equal in size (at some point skill matters again).

Frankly, I couldn't care less whether PvPers keep the current version or not, as it doesn't exist for me anyways. In general, I suspect that PvEers don't really care either, they have other problems, like hats and economy. PvPers can try and dictate whatever they want to PvEers, it doesn't change that Cyro populations are shrinking.

Every pvp player started at zero. The conditions are the same for everyone.

Less flashy, glowing and/or exploding mounts and pets.

Reduce the pricing on outfit slots or make them accountwide.

Houses are totally overpriced, their prices needs to be cut.

Release actually good looking hairstyles... the recent ones look ugly and weird. And please, no more weird colored hair styles.

Since the game has completely lost much of its lore, fun, and class identity, at least for me and for several other players, as seen in many discussions, I think it’s time to reconsider the “Criminal Act” mechanic tied to some Necromancer skills.

I truly love the Necromancer class, but it’s just not enjoyable to play solo because of this outdated system. There’s nothing more frustrating than being asked by an NPC to help with a quest, only for them to suddenly attack me because I summoned a skeleton. That completely breaks immersion and ruins the experience.

I understand why the “Criminal Act” tag was added originally, it made sense when class identity and world immersion were stronger. But nowadays, when the game no longer emphasizes those aspects as much, this mechanic feels unnecessary and restrictive.

So, @ZOS_Kevin , is there any chance the team is considering removing this? I’d really love to replay the story using my Necromancer without constantly worrying about being attacked for using its core abilities. Right now, my Necromancer is level 50, but I only use him for random dungeons because solo play just isn’t fun with this limitation.

Lore, fun, class identity, immersion, all gone from ESO. Why keep this?
I don’t know about all of you, but if this was removed, at least all this nonsense would finally make sense.

Gabriel_H wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That implies that it is intended that the parent classes each have their own strengths and weaknesses and that the point of Subclassing is to give players a way to make up for the inherent weaknesses of their Class.

It's a little more complex than that. ZOS have even said as much themselves.

“We know the Subclassing system will infuse power into the player community. For example, players can drop their tank and support skill lines for more damage-dealing abilities and passives,” notes Day. “However, there is a trade-off—by taking all damage skill lines, you are more reliant on your team for support healing, shielding, and protection. Also, there is no desire to reduce the effectiveness of pure classes and their ability to complete content, and overall, the system should make the content more accessible to all players.”

In other words, DDs got to address their weaknesses, while tanks and healers are pushed into buff machines.

I’m gonna be honest, and maybe y’all can help me clarify…

But I never understand when people say there is a trade-off when switching to subclassing. I get that you’re sacrificing tank and healing skill lines.

But then why are all of Hyperioxes best solo builds utilizing three 3 DPS skill lines?? Keep in mind, this is the person who solos vet dlc dungeons on hard mode for every boss.

https://hyperioxes.com/eso/solo

Clearly, there isn’t a trade off. Subclassing into 3 DD skill lines is better than staying pure in every way, be it DPS or survivability.

I asked this exact question and even Hyperioxes said on Discord that subclassing will always be better than a pure class.

Maybe someone can change my mind… 🤷🏻‍♂️