Farming they keys ONCE should be enough to permanently unlock the dungeons and trial. Please consider this and change it as soon as possible!

Finn,

Overall, this has been a homerun. Excellent work for the team. I think there is a lot of excellent feedback that has been provided in the Night market thread and I hope you are taking a look at it carefully.

One thing I want to urge is to continue down the path of keeping this as group content-focused / group-required experience. I run a very large casual/social guild where people do not have Meta builds, all we have is cooperation - and we were able to handily do every aspect of the Night Market (even the Trial).

Difficulty is, in our guilds opinion, perfectly balanced. Our issues are more related to rewards, time-to-effort ratio, and design (e.g. favor balls disappearing too quickly, bonus quests being hard to find inside zones, etc).

Thanks again for your teams hard work - we are excited to see what you cook up next!

Pinktraining wrote: »

Demanding that Nightblade be refreshed first is perfectly reasonable, as Nightblade is the weakest class, with all three lines being poor and offering fewer bonuses compared to other similar abilities. For example, Magicka Flood only provides 6% resources, while Sorc gains 108 Weapon Damage through Expert Mage, and Warden gains 5% Critical Damage per skill through Advanced Species.

Not to mention in random groups, you'll see a lot of players using pets(Bear and Bird) and HA, but you'll never see anyone using Nightblade to gain a damage buff through stealth. Even the Necromancer is used more often than Nightblade; Colo and Resurrection are everywhere.

Yeah, ALL 3 lines of NB are so bad, that it is meta to run Assassination on everything.

Also in PvP, NB is one of the classes I never even considered subclassing on. It did best as pure class until the DK was reworked.

The more I think about it, the more I think that antiquity furnishings should follow the Mythic mechanism:

1. After completing the first codex, the furnishing becomes available to purchase at the achievement vendors, for those who need it for housing. This applies to all tiers of rarity: green, blue, purple and gold.
2. Post first codex RNG rates are adjusted to be reasonably attainable within a couple of weeks, for those who need to complete the 3 codices for lore or completionist purposes. This means, no more nesting RNG in treasure maps, or make the effective accumulated RNG much more forgiving (eg. either guaranteed zone maps or guaranteed leads from maps, or some kind of curation system for maps and leads).

Munkfist wrote: »

Someone commented that maybe if I wanted the item itself, it would be me, but as a collector of all things, I wanted the codex itself, and still had no issues with the many hours a lot of them took.

I don't know if you misunderstood my comment, but I said if you needed the item. Some of us might need specific antiquity furnishings to decorate a home, the same way we might need Mythics or gear for a build. For us it's no longer just "nice to have", but becomes an important and irreplaceable part of our home.

Even for those who just want to complete the codices (which I think is OP's case as well), it's absolutely reasonable for them to want their time to be respected. For all the reasons I outlined in my previous post, the antiquity furnishing grind feels particularly disrespectful, because no, it is not reasonable to spend months and even years trying to obtain an item. This is supposed to be entertainment, not a real life job - and tbh if it was a real life job, I would probably quit.

code65536 wrote: »

At the very least you should've allowed players to hold multiple copies of a key.

Yes, yes, yes. We should be able to at minimum hold 10 copies of the keys. This would make it easier on people who run in multiple groups, and for smaller guilds since willing fills would be more abundant while not making the overland useless to farm once you have the keys, which I believe was the point of the system in the first place.

The relic system is also somewhat frustrating but at least once someone has it they have it. The keys need to be almost constantly farmed in their current state and it punishes people who lead groups who are doing all of the bosses over and over again while getting almost nothing from them.

Earlier to day I was filling for a OO run since I had all the keys (all argent and dungeons) and someone who was on the roster had to drop. We had 3 people in that group that needed the dungeons. I ended up helping out on my tank. After that we did the trial. I went into this having all of the keys including the back filled argent ones and because I was being helpful I left with no keys at all. This was not a group I normally run with and I will have to re-farm all of the stuff before I run with my other group later this week. The current system actively discourages helping in this way since for some it might mean they no longer can run with the group they signed up for/want to because someone asked them to help and they said yes.

That run earlier ran from about 6:30 ET until 9:00 E. 2.5 hours to do all of that and clear the trial is crazy. Most groups cap their run times at 2 hours max for good reasons. In a less organized group that all would have taken much longer.

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Unfortuntely refresh were decided upon which class looks like the most popular, either to the devs or the community, but yeah, OP is certainly right Nightblades probably need a refresh asap..along Necros and Templars.

The refreshes were clearly done based on how much work classes needed and their current stance. Anyone who is trying to say that some classes 'deserve' it more is not looking at a holistic picture (and I can't help but notice everyone arguing "[X] Class should be earlier!" also surprisingly mains that Class.. hmmm...).

DK was chosen as the first one since the DK is a very simple Class - there's no special mechanics that DKs need to worry about, it's essentially the best starter class that people should be able to pick up and go with. It also has three well-defined themes for its lines and the Class skills could just be reshuffled a bit to get each line to be able to do all three roles, and there really wasn't that much that needed to be redone. As such, DK would be a perfect proof-of-concept since they could focus on making it a template for other Classes instead of having to spend a lot of time trying to solve problems while they were trying to get a baseline.

Warden was second because it proved the first major challenge: how to take a Class with role-defined lines and shuffle it into something with Skill Line-based concepts. Again though, Warden really doesn't have any special mechanics that it needs to sort through beyond one single skill that involves a permanent pet. But the big focus there would be the fact that skills need to be decently modified to make the Green Balance line get some damage capability and Animal Companions get some support (Winter's did have a lot already done to make it have damage capability already).

With the fact that they're starting on pet logic, the next obvious class to move to is the class that's all about pets. Most of Sorc's rework is probably going to go into getting the pets figured out, but then they'll need to deal with a lot of its imbalance in the PvP arena and the fact that some of its skill lines are kinda useless. However, the lines aren't super strictly delineated by role

As for the later ones, Templars have one skill with a corpse mechanic so that's something they'll have to work on there. Templars also are one of the basegame Classes with a strict healing line that needs to be broken up. Nightblades are kind of in the same boat where they have one strict damage line that's so OP that it's essentially required on every build, along with two other lines that are practically unused. There will need to be a lot of fiddling to get that to work. NB also has the issue that most of its damage is single-target while more and more encounters are desiring of cleave, so that's another area that will have to get some attention.

And then of course is the Class that needs the most attention hands down. However, by the time they get to Necromancer, they'll have already figured out the pet logic from Sorcs and maybe even started to touch on the corpse mechanic from Templar. The entire Class almost needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to deemphasize the role-based system and get it to work well (which it currently doesn't), along with dealing with things like Grave Lord's Sacrifice, which pretty well nobody likes. As such, that's a massive undertaking. Finally, they need to give the same treatment to Arcanist, but at least that one doesn't feel obscenely clunky to use, but it does need a lot of work to split the lines.

It's fully logical why they chose the order they did, and has nothing to do with "my favorite Class is first and the Class I hate is last." They are building on each other in this order, and the later ones will need more work than the earlier ones because of how many unique mechanics/features they involve and how much would need to be rebuilt from scratch.
I get that it's not fun to have to wait for your main to get touched, but the "scrap everything and do my Class NOW!" idea would only result in that Class only getting less than a month of work and end up being a thrown-together disaster while all the other Classes get to become amazing. I have to wonder why so many people hate their main Classes so much that the want the devs to do a rushed hack job on their main Class instead of giving it the time it needs.

LonePirate wrote: »

If you have played PVP for a couple of days or more during the last several years, you’ll know exactly why it is not balanced.

Perfectly said. Unkillable ball groups out of control, players with 45k health and high resistances one shotting players, siege being absolutely useless against stacked Heals and the absurd strength of shields, Rush Of Agony and the Warden charm script...Cyrodiil is such a mess that I've seen countless guilds and veteran PvP players just quit the game altogether because it's not worth the headache anymore

I don't know what game you're playing, but I'd honestly like to try it.

would be nice to have a PvE campaign of imperial city yes