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Arunei wrote: »

I ask more or less because if 6k sustained DPS is still considered too high, then what would people claiming WW is too strong consider as 'normal' or 'acceptable' damage before they feel WW isn't OP anymore? It went from 10k is too strong to 6k also still being too strong.

xylena wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I ask more or less because if 6k sustained DPS is still considered too high

It's not. We've been able to do that for years.

6k DPS is the high end of what is possible on the live server. This is achieved by builds using things like rele or pyreband, by players who are very good and maintaining their weaving and not wasting any GCDS, keeping all their buffs and debuffs up as close to perfect as possible, etc. These setups are typically paper-thin as well, and usually only function well within 1v1s. This is not some easy number to hit that is common to see. It is also not something that you can typically survive without specifically building to do so - slotting purges or additional heal over times, running super high mitigation, sets like wyrd/maras, etc.

I could accept 6k dps as being the high end of what a werewolf is capable of, assuming they're running a full damage setup like what we showed in all of the testing footage & cmx's within the other thread. Even though these WWs have 40k HP and are doing obscene healing from the multiple health scaling heals while remaining fully offensive, 6k DPS would still be acceptable to me since it'd be manageable if you played extremely well, and you'd be able to burst them back with the relatively low resistances they have.

But we are not just looking at 6k dps. Pelican demonstrated as high as 12.8k DPS in his video, with a variety of different sets including relequen, savage werewolf, deadlands demolisher, etc. Often sustaining between 8-10k DPS against very skilled players who built specifically to try to survive his setup. He's since reached 14k DPS in one duel. The number is continuing to escalate as more setups are tested and people gain familiarity with the mechanics. When someone is doing that much damage to you, if you stop blocking/healing/kiting for just 1-2 seconds, you instantly die. There is no surviving it, there is no outplaying it.

People keep saying that somehow we are still lacking context, and at this point I just don't have the patience to continue arguing. Check my comment history if you care to, there is multiple CMX posts straight from pelican himself, one or more of which include his list of buffs that shows his sets and the breakdown of his damage. Between those posts and the 18 minute long video consisting of 5-20 second long duel clips versus a variety of different builds/classes/skill level players, I think there is more than enough to demonstrate exactly why we're suggesting why it may be good to dial things back just a bit.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

This was the first 'nerf werewolf' comment (that I saw, skimming) that came in and happened to include no information. Later came a CMX with no information on person skills/gear/playstyle and opponent skills/gear/playstyle. Beyond this, and MUCH later, after multiple 'please for proof' requests- came the more-or-less-the-same-style (no real evidence) dueling anyone and everyone in PTS Riften video with once again limited or no information.

This was my comment, and was genuinely just a question that caused a dozen people to completely spiral over something they themselves had not tested whatsoever. Ironically, it seems several of those parties have since shifted their stance to "well it seems class mastery passives are the real core of the issue".

At this point though, I don't really know what would qualify as "real evidence" to you. What was provided was probably 10+ hours of PTS duels across a variety of setups which included an on screen DPS meter, broken down into an 18 minute video, and multiple CMX pages showing the damage breakdowns as well as one with pelican's buffs visible - showing exactly the gear that he'd been using and his class mastery passives.

Meanwhile this whole time, all I've seen in return are constant remarks of "this doesn't suffice" and "this lacks context" from people who haven't provided a single thing of substance to substantiate their own claims.

I'm not going to continue arguing about this. I think there is more than enough for objective parties to sort through and decide for themselves what would be the correct path moving forward. Hopefully we'll hear from the team in advance of whatever they're planning to do/not do in the coming weeks, so a healthier conversation can be had there.