Gambino108 wrote: »

People won't be happy until the day comes where they can log in and claim all available rewards in the game with a single button, and never have to actually play the game.

But this actually needs a player to be able to login to the game, which more and more frequently you can't...

Urzigurumash wrote: »

darkriketz wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

...ok I'm kidding, I'm being sarcastic, it's just another case of player complaining for non-existing problem, and it gets really annoying as the times passes by.

It's not a non existent problem, do you play PvP? However it is a return to form for DK, ironically while everything else has dissolved, we've reconstituted.

There is absolutely no universe in which subclassing breaks TESO and renders it unplayable. It's just another way to play the game. For example, as a nightblade, my main character is far more secure and agreable to play now that it was before Subclassing.

If you like PvP, you like challenge. You're not forced to use Subclassing but if opponent players use it and it gives them a chance to best you ? See it as a challenge and rethink your character and strategy. It's just a new puzzle to solve to improve yourself. That's how competition works, by the way, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and when you lose, absolutely nothing in the universe forces you to post a forum thread to complain. Again : new way of playing, puzzle to solve.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

My main character, the one I've done all quests on and discovered all points of interest, found all skyshards, learned all crafting, etc. is now obsolete thanks to Subclassing. The builds that I need to stay competitive are no longer possible on my main class, so I must reroll another character and start fresh. Either that or buy skill lines from the crown store and switch characters anytime I need something crafted. You get the idea.

It's also been said before but Subclassing has distilled combat down to maybe 5 skill lines for the serious high-end competitive gameplay.

"oh wow, you're playing XYZ... how original" etc

Your character is obsolete in what way ?
Are you totally unable to use subclassing to add a new skill line ? Have you used each of your skill points and you have no gold to reroll them ? Are new pieces of gear, both crafted and looted, totally unavailable to you ? Is TESO even playable anymore in your perspective ?!?
Obsolete in which way ?!? O_O

...ok I'm kidding, I'm being sarcastic, it's just another case of player complaining for non-existing problem, and it gets really annoying as the times passes by.
You're obviously obsessed with competition, maybe take a break, breathe a little, go explore Tamriel, do some crafting or housing, marvel to the beautiful landscapes, and remember that the game still is playable for you. Changing your character and shifting your strategy is, like, a basic in a MMORPG. It happens sometimes, it's not a big deal, don't worry.

And regarding the fact that you may have a single master crafter character and other characters for other purposes... welcome to TESO, I guess ?

Been working on this post for a few days now... so bear with me here.

When subclassing was first announced during the ESO Direct 2025 stream in April, ZOS emphasized something along the lines of, "We will be paying close attention to subclassing's impact on PvP and make any necessary adjustments to ensure balanced gameplay." (Paraphrased from the announcement; if anyone has the exact wording from the stream or official post, please share it below.) This was reassuring at the time, as it acknowledged the potential for meta shifts in competitive environments like Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds.

However, several months in, the silence from ZOS on this front is concerning. We've seen subclassing become base game content and even receive nerfs during the Update 47 PTS cycle, which included adjustments to balance overall gameplay. But specific updates on PvP tuning have been absent, despite growing player feedback. I'd like to highlight some key issues constructively, backed by community discussions and recent events, in hopes of sparking a productive dialogue and perhaps getting an official response on ZOS's ongoing plans for subclassing in PvP.

1. The Current PvP Meta: One of the Worst in Recent Memory?
From player reports across forums and social media, the subclassing system has contributed to a highly unbalanced meta that's frustrating for many. While it offers exciting build variety combinations have led to excessive burst damage and tanky, unkillable setups (worse that those that were out there prior to subclassing). This has shifted PvP toward a "tank-heavy" environment where players must stack defenses to survive, often at the expense of fun and diversity.

Key player complaints include:

• Excessive Power Creep and Burst Damage: Subclassing enables overpowered combinations that result in extreme burst, creating volatile fights where players are one-shot without meaningful counterplay, making sessions feel unfair and unenjoyable.
• Shift to a Tanky, Drawn-Out Meta: Many describe a move toward high-health, sustain-focused builds that prolong combats endlessly, turning dynamic PvP into sluggish, boring slogs that drain the excitement from gameplay.
• Overall Imbalance Leading to Frustration: Feedback highlights the meta as "broken" and "the worst ever," with subclassing amplifying disparities that favor repetitive, min-maxed playstyles over skill and variety, leaving players disillusioned.
• Performance Issues Sour the Experience: Server lag and bugs compound the meta's problems, turning potentially fun subclassing elements into aggravating ordeals that make PvP feel "horrible" and unrewarding.

2. Midyear Mayhem 2025: Shockingly Low Turnout
The recent MYM event in exemplified these issues, with one of the lowest participations in years. Despite added campaigns, queues were excessively long (e.g., 30-40+ minutes for Grey Host, positions in the 70s-80s), but this masked the reality: many players were AFK or running macros overnight due to a lack of actual fights. Players reported the event as "pointless" and "most disappointing," citing:

• Event Fatigue and Rewards: Overly repetitive rewards and forced participation in unenjoyable activities.
• PvP-Specific Issues: Subclassing's imbalance, combined with server performance, drove turnout down further.
• Declining Trends: Each MYM sees fewer players, but 2025 was "shockingly low," with some blaming the Vengeance campaign for splitting the community or deterring non-zerg players.

This isn't just anecdotal forum threads confirm a broader dip in PvP engagement, potentially tied to unresolved meta problems.


3. What Are ZOS's Plans for Subclassing in PvP?
ZOS, you promised to review and adjust subclassing for PvP, but we haven't heard specifics since the initial announcement and PTS nerfs (which I argue wouldn't change much of the issues PvP is dealing with at the moment). Could we get an update on your perspective? Are there targeted PvP balances in the works for Update 48, such as limits on cross-class skills, tweaks to burst damage, or just pulling subclassing for PvP all together?

* I had to have ai format my crazy thoughts so if this reads like AI... that is why. Don't roast me

It's ok, they killed the servers for you so you don't have to do them. xD

Truly masterful work, ZOS. After an entire day of "maintenance," the game now does less than before. We used to at least be able to attempt a login. Now we just get stuck staring at a loading spinner like it’s a feature.

I assume the maintenance goal was to lower server load by preventing players from logging in entirely. If so, flawless execution. Keep up the good work.

randconfig wrote: »

AardvarkMcG wrote: »

Versalium wrote: »

Anyone here who plays other MMOs? Do they have the same server issues as ESO?

Most MMOs experience server issues every now and then but never as many as ZoS and ESO

ESO's server issues are better than all the MMOs I've played in my life, and I've played at least 10 or more. Still it doesn't change the fact that the down time sucks, I really wanted to play ):

Really? I've probably had just as bad issues with WoW, but in Guild Wars 2 i barely had server issues AND they do maintenance without taking the servers offline!

Can't log in to PCNA or PCEU here. Heck, I just was able to login to the forms after trying for 30 mins to post this

Maintenances have been getting progressively longer, downtimes seem to be more frequent as well for whatever reason.

Love this game but it's level of service, stability and uptime has definitely deteriorated noticeably over the last few years. Gotta think it's related to staffing issues and\or personnel.