Like others have said, most of the new Masteries seem focused exclusively upon damage dealing, which is highly problematic. It seems as though the official decision is that support roles must subclass and that pureclassing is reserved only for damage dealing roles.

Further, group support seems to have been neglected almost entirely on certain classes, chief among them Sorcerer, Necromancer, and Nightblade.

Of these, Sorcerer looms the largest. Why? Because that class already brings next to nothing to an organized group. It shares a "unique" class buff, Minor Prophecy, with the meta Nightblade damage line, which means that the buff is never needed. That leaves Major Berserk from Atro. But what is happening in U50? Oh right, pureclass Dragonknights are stealing that away from Sorcerers, leaving them with literally nothing to offer anyone. The 3% WD and damage shields do not move the needle. Show me (Sorcerers) the metaphorical money. Create a new buff if you have to. Or upgrade Minor Prophecy into a unique Critical Chance source while pureclassed so that it cannot be co-opted by Nightblades.

Next are Necromancers. There was no attempt even made with the Masteries to give Necromancers something unique to provide to their groups. Like actually nothing. What the what?! Necromancers do not even have a unique buff to offer their groups and their previously unique debuff, Major Vulnerability, has been handed-out like Halloween candy to about a dozen other sources, including basic sets. The devs seem to think that it is still 2019 and Major Vulnerability is still 30% and unique to Necromancers. Because only that ancient point of view could lead to them to determining that Necromancers are fine as they are. Necromancers need an entirely new buff or debuff but we will seemingly have to wait two more years for any progress on the supremely neglected class. In the meantime, however, allow pureclassed Necromancers to upgrade their Colossus Major Vulnerability to 20%.

Lastly, Nightblades. The group utility from their Masteries is totally nonexistent. A small amount of shared resource-return and 1 measly ultimate for only 4 group members? This relegates the entire passive to dungeon-only and mechanically obviates it from ever seeing use in trials. Currently, Nightblade screams, "I am the selfish class!" but that seems like a very strange restriction to place upon an entire class. NB healing and tanking are popular but they receive nothing for groups from this update, so they will always be excluded in favor of subclassed options. Similarly to my Sorcerer suggestion, allow pureclassed Nightblades to upgrade Minor Savagery into a unique Critical Chance source.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I appreciate the real duels but this is just a sliver of the issue I have with the 'nerf-callers'

Take all the help you can get. My posts were directed at the PvP duelers who understand CMX and the meta. I don't want to see WW or Class Mastery nerfed. Meanwhile we've been screaming at the devs to do something about proc sets like Relequen for years.

Attempt at short explanation so as not to derail: information you don't see basically cancels out, you're left with 1 mostly optimal StamSorc vs 1 mostly optimal WW, both piloted reasonably well. About as evenly matched as we're gonna get in a game with a zillion variables.

Duels between high damage pressure DDs are typically short. Whoever gets the upper hand first is gonna win. You don't see 8k sustained because the opponent dies too fast. To get that you need an artifical controlled environment like Hoang having someone parse on his PvP tank.

TL;DR don't nerf WW, don't nerf Class Mastery, but do nerf Relequen in PvP.

So far is looks like all of the extra high damage examples are very specific setups with a class mastery interaction. These do not indicate a problem with Werewolf overall. These are also examples of dueling and not open world, which will be significantly different.

With that logic nothing has ever overperformed because it´s just "a synergy between things". If something synergies too well with another thing, it becomes part of the problem. Every single patch where WW has been overtuned (Wolfhunter, Elsweyr, Murkmire and Greymoor/Markath), it´s been because WW had such insanely good synergy with certain tools that patch. It´s the synergy that make certain things overtuned, ESO PvP doesn´t work in a convenient vacuum like that. You know very well that anyone that wants to be competitive in ESO tends to lean towards whatever synergy/combination works the best.

Werewolf has had to deal with being F-tier for a long time. Mag Sorcerer meta, Warden acuity meta, and now Dragonknight corrosive/onslaught whip meta have all been significantly more difficult to play against as a Werewolf. Let's maybe get this thing working well before saying it's OP because of some interaction.

Sure WW hasn´t been good in a while, but people are arguing that doing 40-50% more sustained DPS in PvP (with or without relequen), compared to the highest damage outputs on live, while requiring way less output/effort, is balanced. And this is with WW missing out on 33% more weapon damage because of a bugged passive.

I´m no "anti WW" player, I used to play a lot of WW with some of the most competent WW theorycrafters in the game on PCEU, but as "interesting" as it would be to see it go live, it would just be another overtuned playstyle that gets neutered 1-2 updates later. Better to reduce the extremes to enable a healthier PvP environment than opening pandoras box.

coop500 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

I'm just gonna say, if the concern is "I took high damage while I let someone parse on me" from a class that has no burst combo capability, that's not really a problem. If a class is capable of dealing a sustained pressure of 6-8k during a duel but is then capable of hitting a burst of 20k plus in a short window, 90% of the time that class will win a fight. If anything, it's an argument that when a class has no proper burst combo, they should have higher pressure than normal.

This is also ignoring the slew of drawbacks werewolf has (no cleanse, melee range only, no shields, no nuke ult, I could go on.)
Dueling also doesn't include battlespirit, which nerfs healing, which is the only way werewolf can survive as they have no shields and no cleanse.

Battlespirit is 100% active while dueling.

I'm the one calling it before this devolves into madness-

If you don't have a video, you don't have proof prior or going forward (a CMX on a 'PvP dummy' means nothing). You are showing no one what you're wearing/doing outside of your visible procs (*cough* *cough* Relequen) or what your opponent is wearing or doing at all- this is highly disingenuous and not sufficient when you're talking about something needing to be nerfed by numbers alone.

I searched through the last few pages (so sincere apologies if I missed something) and even the person that said they were going to source a video didn't (I periodically checked out of respect for potential effort well throughout the day); the main individual making the claim did not source a video despite this being requested of them a number over 5 times. The nerf-calling party (the handful of individuals that jumped in here within minutes of each other with an agenda) has the 'burden of' real 'proof', unfortunately for them.

Werewolf is not a class, it's an ult that locks you out of abilities (and it is balanced around this AND still having access to class passives). I can still turn back into human also after all (it's literally never been cheaper to go back and forth before). Removing class passives for even werewolf alone removes my abilities to 'do what I want' and pureclass effectively in my human form.

If you want this or werewolf to be gutted, you must provide real proof otherwise I'm shipping it to live (yes, me, I'm doing it ) b/c you have nothing and only live at this point can prove your point (because if you can say whatever and expect it to happen, so can I).