Stamicka wrote: »

JustLovely wrote: »

Why are you promoting vengeance so hard all the time. Every thread on vengeance is the same three or four people talking amongst themselves about the virtues of vengeance and the lost cause you'd like live cyrodiil to become. It's like you're trying to push the live system we already have out of the conversation.

What's going on here?

Vengeance is a hard separation between PvE and PvP which has been much needed for years. That alone gives it a ton of potential. In the long term this will shield PvP from the negative side effects of changes that were made with PvE in mind.

I see Vengeance sort of like a fresh start. It has totally different skills, it doesn't have sets yet, and there's no subclassing. All of this makes it much easier to tweak and balance than the current mess.

There's no game that I've played that was as much fun as ESO in 2015-2018 and I don't even see anything on the horizon that's going to change that. Why wouldn't I push for something to bring back ESO PvP's early feel? Vengeance is a far better foundation than the current environment which has 100s and 100s of sets and subclassing. It's basically impossible to get the current game in a balanced state without literally removing or reworking the majority of the stuff in the game.

yeah what he said too lol.

Just imagine pvp where the thousands of useless animations nolonger existed and you could actually see telegraphs to respond to CC.

We just have to keep pushing feedback that says do not make template pvp the end answer for vet pvp, its ideal for data, but not longterm. Its honestly probably good for new players to learn in, but vet pvp needs building with sets and gear unlocks. Even if they deleted and started remaking pvp only gear in new town vendors, end of campaign rewards, and golden vendors. The fact that they have stat changes affecting skills points towards eventually baking in the normal stat change systems like mundus, enchants, sets, etc. At least they responded to the feedback of people wanting to have any amount of stat choices, even though its this goofy thrown together system.

JustLovely wrote: »

Why are you promoting vengeance so hard all the time. Every thread on vengeance is the same three or four people talking amongst themselves about the virtues of vengeance and the lost cause you'd like live cyrodiil to become. It's like you're trying to push the live system we already have out of the conversation.

What's going on here?

Vengeance is a hard separation between PvE and PvP which has been much needed for years. That alone gives it a ton of potential. In the long term this will shield PvP from the negative side effects of changes that were made with PvE in mind.

I see Vengeance sort of like a fresh start. It has totally different skills, it doesn't have sets yet, and there's no subclassing. All of this makes it much easier to tweak and balance than the current mess.

There's no game that I've played that was as much fun as ESO in 2015-2018 and I don't even see anything on the horizon that's going to change that. Why wouldn't I push for something to bring back ESO PvP's early feel? Vengeance is a far better foundation than the current environment which has 100s and 100s of sets and subclassing. It's basically impossible to get the current game in a balanced state without literally removing or reworking the majority of the stuff in the game.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all! Just wanted to follow up here. There will be a base game update for U48. It will be focused on bug fixes and minor adjustments, rather than bigger QoL features this patch. The team has added quite a bit of QoL features over the last several patches and working on some good ones that you will see roll out next year, including some from the top pain points list many of you contributed to earlier this year. So this quarter will be lighter in that area.

The focus for this patch will be rolling out The Writhing Wall Event, the Eastern Solstice zone and Vengeance tests as those are both pretty sizable tasks for the team.

veangeance i understand,

but why so much effort on the Writhering Wall event that is going to be a one and done thing? is it truly going to be as epic as yall are hyping it up to be? especially with no other content besides it?

Full summary:

I didn't see anything about QoL improvements.

I barely kept my eyes open during the stream, and my boyfriend (who has Elder Scroll tattoos) fell asleep.

They showed 2 screenshots of new Crown houses, but no news on their housing item limit.
The first house had trees with many colors and what looked like Alinor greenhouses in a new shape. It was really well done from what little we could see.
Second house was like the Coldharbour house, but with a Worm Cult building instead of an empty plot.
Players again asked for furniture house limit increase in chat.

The first part of the stream was showing us areas that looked like Coldharbour. They went into delves to show us art in there... as if they don't know we only go into delves to do repeatable daily quests and most people skip those in favor of doing the world boss daily quests since they are faster.
I would have been more excited for them to say they aren't wasting resources on making more delves. (AKA the repeated daily chore zones most players speed run through)

Second part of the stream was about PvP. Chat wanted 4x4x4 BGs back.
French people asked for French voiceover.

Summary of most popular player requests in chat:
1) French voiceover
2) Furniture item limit increase
3) 4x4x4

They didn't comment on anything from chat.

Nothing was announced that they couldn't have posted as screenshots in a letter.
The Twitch drops were 2 crates.

Stamicka wrote: »

Beyond that, this is PvP we are talking about. With ESO’s customization, 2 players can be fully geared out at max level and 1 of those players can literally have double the raw power of the other person. There’s so many situations where one build is simply better than another without any tradeoffs at all.

If someone is serious about fair PvP, why would they put up with that? Truly competitive players or pvpers want to win or lose based on skill, otherwise they’ll quit for more skill based games. The lack of balance and the level at which you can outbuild someone keeps ESO unappealing to many of the people who enjoy PvP games.

Some level of build customization in ESO is fine. With sets and skill lines so wildly out of balance with each other though, it’s become a huge issue, both for accessibility and skill expression.

There’s definitely a vocal group of ESO “pvpers” that must love farming players with builds that can’t compete. If you really deserve to be getting kills, you’ll do just fine on more equal footing.

We clearly have very different ideas of what makes someone good at the game, and that's OK. Fortunately for you, it seems the devs agree with yours and don't agree with mine.

IMO, if someone is serious about PvP, they shouldn't shy away from investing the time and resources to take full advantage of ESO's complex builds. Knowing how to theorycraft and leverage an effective setup is part of what makes someone skilled at the game. If one person is CP 3000 with all stickers learned, tens of millions of gold/AP earned, tens of thousands of raw mats hoarded, and thousands of hours of practice, I don't think it's unreasonable for that to represent a material advantage when they fight a CP 140 who just started the game a month prior. What's wrong with asking a new player to put in some time and effort and earn their power?

To your point: why would someone serious about PvP put up with "that" ^? Because that's literally ESO's gameplay loop. That's what makes ESO, ESO. Play the game, earn resources, invest them, grow stronger. If that's too much of a hassle for someone who claims to enjoy "skill-based" games, then perhaps that's just an excuse they're telling themselves to avoid putting in a modicum of work.

There are plenty of games out there that let you hop in with zero investment and compete on "equal footing" and there is nothing wrong with that design philosophy. But part of what appeals to a lot of ESO's players is that ESO's PvP is different, has always been different, and rewards investment (intellectual and material) in the game. Stripping that away will appeal to new players and make it more accessible -- that much is obvious. But if it were up to me, I certainly would not celebrate ESO's PvP losing what makes it special in exchange for marginally better performance, and I don't think I'm alone in that.

All of that said, I agree with you about the current state of combat balance in PvP. The skill lines are egregiously unbalanced and it is an issue. I just don't think Vengeance is the right solution, nor do I think Subclassing was. To me, both of these were/are massive abdications of responsibility on the part of the combat team re: game balance. No need to balance classes if there aren't classes anymore! And no need to sweat that pesky "class identity" topic if those get tossed out the window.

@shadoza Please don't shirk from what you wrote. Did you not type "Put it on a cool down. Make it account wide and have options like the delete options. Require tokens which can be earned or purchased for gold or crown." That cost, that you suggested would cost me for being me, eg disabled. Nothing more, nothing less, is that fair?

You also said "My concerns regarding the layering of overland is that it will not resolve the issues with highly-powered players interfering with new and low-powered player activities. (Many here say it doesn't happen, but it does, and it is a problem that needs addressing.) I do not complete group dungeons because the mechanics make it impossible to do without a tank or a partner. I love PvP but avoid it because I think the balance is broken and those that frequent the PvP games are not pleasant to play with or against. So . . . my contest is not about me preferring solo content." So saying again that "highly-powered players interfering"

Do you not think that this goes both ways. I get affected the same by pugs of ALL LEVELS. I have to wait on boss, mob, or resource to respawn, the same as you and others before I can move on with my game play too. Just because I can kill quickly or solo stuff, doesn't reduce the spawn times, I still have to wait for a respawn if it's been killed by a low level/newbe!

I'm not projecting, I'm trying to giving you an others an understanding that a players skill and ability can change at any time, through no fault of their making. I can't change you thought patterns, only you can.

Yes there are players that don't see others, much like real life, yes. How many? I don't know, I would not like to estimate a %. ESO is an MMO, so you are going to get all types of players, skill and ability crossing your path, for good and bad.

I never thought I would see reverse gatekeeping, yet here we are........