NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

My apologies; due to translation issues, my expression was somewhat ambiguous.

The 55% probability likely refers to the likelihood of 5 attacks triggering within 1 second (assuming light attacks, Crushing Shocks, and Hurricane arrive at different times within 1 second). Therefore, the probability of receiving Reverberation within 1 second is approximately 55% (assuming ignoring health changes and that the attack times are staggered by a 0.3-second cooldown).

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.

Even at relatively high health treshold like 85% hp 5 instances of damage with 20% proc chance each isnt a low proc rate and its basically a guarantee at even lower health tresholds.

But as you say if ''Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive. '' than you wouldnt mind if the passive was adjusted to proc only once per second with battle spirit active so i have no idea why you are trying to argue with me when you agree with me.

Btw the skill you are looking for is BA ...

That’s not how this passive works.

If one deals 5 simultaneous instances of damage to a target they do not get a 20% chance EACH to proc. All 5 would constitute one chance and against a target that has 85% health that would be one 20% chance (5% base plus 15%, 1% for each missing percent of target health).

In order to get 5 chances to apply Static a Sorc would need to apply damage 5 separate times (not just 5 instances) which would mean 5 GCD or 5 seconds. Which takes me back to my original point that over 5 to 6 applications of damage (aka 5 or 6 seconds) this passive would likely proc once.

That’s nowhere near a guarantee proc chance. Plus, the damage doesn’t scale that awful high either, not given how limited the proc chance is.

Further, it’s only the BASE chance that’s 5%, it’s not 5% per missing health. It’s 5% plus 1% per missing health.

There is zero scenario where this passive has a 55%chance to apply damage against a target that has 90% health; that’s just factually wrong and it seems people might be confused as to how this passive actually works.

Now, yes; BA does apply at 0.3 increments, however, that’s the only available skill that aligns with the adjusted cooldown of Static and it’s not readily spammable, requiring a charge and it doesn’t scale anywhere near the damage of, say, Merciless. It’s not a burst and a full charge takes 1.3 seconds to fully execute, which, is why in PvP it’s not a commonly used skill. It’s just too slow and doesn’t deal enough damage in PvP to really be viable. So, again, on paper or just looking at tool tip, yes, one might think BA is a good skill to synergize with Static in PvP but the problem is neither scale to any strong damage value and none align with the strong burst damage PvP demands so there’s not really a good use case for the combo.

I PvP every day and I’ve rarely ever seen BA and I can understand why. It’s just not a good skill and I don’t think anyone is going to slot it just to try and proc Static. BA actually adds longer pacing potential to Static due to the charge full charge up factor so if anything BA holds this passive back even more.

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

And what myself and others are telling you is that Sorcs don’t have as easy of a time proccing the passive as you seem to think.

Remember, Static doesn’t just proc per instance of damage, it procs per instance of damage within the 0.3s timeframe. So if a Sorc tosses Crushing Shock and deals 3 instances of damage all at once, then that counts as “one” for the purposes of Static because all 3 occurred at the same time and the passive has the 0.3s cooldown, so effectively, 2 out of the 3 instances don’t contribute to the passive.

Nobody is saying that you consider Mastery passives in a vacuum, what I’m saying is that you have to consider the current state of Sorc skills as they are now in the context of how much strength these passives should or should not have. Plus, Sorcs pay a penalty for having to slot world skills over their class skills in that they take a hit to their output in doing so which goes toward being able to proc Static in the first place.

When I talk about Sorcs using skills outside of their class it is relevant because Sorcs have no reliable spammable burst. Just about every class has at least one skill that’s a reliable heavy burst spam.

When you consider that Static only reliably procs after the targets health gets below a certain point you can see where this raises a problem for Sorcs in PvP, they need burst and they don’t have it and world skills only partially deliver on this.

In PvP, with Sorc having no heavy bursts and target players having strong self healing available, getting a target down to a low enough health for Static to do any consistent numbers isn’t as easy as you’re saying. Out of, let’s say, 5 or 6 instances of damage per GCD Static might proc once, and that’s only once their health hit gets lowered.

If Sorcs had a class skill like Merciless that scaled really high and could thereby chunk a players health in one burst and then allow Static to kick in and help the Sorc keep the targets health lower and keep applying the passive, then maybe you’d have a point but that’s not the case and no world skill is that strong either.

For comparison, Burning Light, for example, will proc FAR more consistently over the course of combat and do more damage than Static will since it can apply persistently, not just when targets are lower health.

Sorcs cannot realistically proc Static more than once per second, even though the passive cooldown is only 0.3s because Sorcs don’t have access to any skills that apply damage in fractional increments. Dealing multiple instances of damage all at the same time does not count each instance toward the passive.

Further, you have the health barrier to consider so the realistic amount of proc that can happen is far less than you’re thinking and testing shows that.