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Re: The Official Vengeance Test Campaign Feedback Thread (Test 3)
Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yep! There were always big fights to participate in and there were some battles with all 3 factions at the same keep. While other keeps were also being attacked!
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
As a dedicated healer & support build, the heals/buffs/purge being limited to 3 people is very draining of magicka. They should have a reduction in mana cost (15% maybe?) so I can be of more use to a group for longer.
Templar's Cleansing Ritual spell is useless for anything bigger than a 1vx fight. Make it like the Support's Purge skill that it cleanses 3 nearby but costs stamina & has a higher cost?
What you think of the simplified abilities?
Healers are basic but still very fun. I prefer having burst heals rather than casting many heals over time spells. But the restoration staff AoE heal is underpowered when it can't be cast multiple times & everyone has much higher health. Give it a shorter duration but more healing to compensate?
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
account name
character name
What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
Time of day this occurred
screenshots and video
No.
What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?
Having a pop cap of 300 per faction is awesome, and everyone being able to get stuck into it means the barrier of entry is much smaller. The skills are still very limited and we need more skill lines. As a healer, the Psijic skill Mend Wounds is very missed. It would be good to have that as a toggle rather than taking up a skill slot for healers, as healers in vengeance are already making big trade offs.
Do you have any general feedback?
See how high we can push the pop caps until problems happen
Yep! There were always big fights to participate in and there were some battles with all 3 factions at the same keep. While other keeps were also being attacked!
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
As a dedicated healer & support build, the heals/buffs/purge being limited to 3 people is very draining of magicka. They should have a reduction in mana cost (15% maybe?) so I can be of more use to a group for longer.
Templar's Cleansing Ritual spell is useless for anything bigger than a 1vx fight. Make it like the Support's Purge skill that it cleanses 3 nearby but costs stamina & has a higher cost?
What you think of the simplified abilities?
Healers are basic but still very fun. I prefer having burst heals rather than casting many heals over time spells. But the restoration staff AoE heal is underpowered when it can't be cast multiple times & everyone has much higher health. Give it a shorter duration but more healing to compensate?
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
account name
character name
What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
Time of day this occurred
screenshots and video
No.
What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?
Having a pop cap of 300 per faction is awesome, and everyone being able to get stuck into it means the barrier of entry is much smaller. The skills are still very limited and we need more skill lines. As a healer, the Psijic skill Mend Wounds is very missed. It would be good to have that as a toggle rather than taking up a skill slot for healers, as healers in vengeance are already making big trade offs.
Do you have any general feedback?
See how high we can push the pop caps until problems happen
Re: Vengeance Server
Well you should at least be accurate in your comparison. Vengeance pop lock is 4x the population. So vengeance at 1-2 bar is going to be pop lock on greyhost. If anything there is the same amount of people playing, however it should be noted that a good portion of pvp players are boycotting the test because they are worried zos is going to replace live pvp with vengeance as it is. So even if the population was about even with live pvp most of the people playing are probably newer players who normally wouldn't have played cyrodil. (kind of a good thing knowing there is an untapped market of new pvp players waiting for pvp to be playable)
Who knows if zos planned this or not. They didnt add much this test, so maybe they are using the undaunted event as a way to gauge how much of the vengeance population was PVE specific players.
Test 4 is going to have a week of overlap too where greyhost is available. So then they would be able to gauge how much of the population would be pvp specific players. During that test we would see how many people solely like vengeance on its own.
It would be better to just replace u50 and nocp with a permanent vengeance campaign. Its good to combine the dead servers so new players have a more populated campaign to learn in. At the same time zos could keep adding to vengeance and do simple one or two day incentivized test events instead of full weeks.
Who knows if zos planned this or not. They didnt add much this test, so maybe they are using the undaunted event as a way to gauge how much of the vengeance population was PVE specific players.
Test 4 is going to have a week of overlap too where greyhost is available. So then they would be able to gauge how much of the population would be pvp specific players. During that test we would see how many people solely like vengeance on its own.
It would be better to just replace u50 and nocp with a permanent vengeance campaign. Its good to combine the dead servers so new players have a more populated campaign to learn in. At the same time zos could keep adding to vengeance and do simple one or two day incentivized test events instead of full weeks.
Re: Feedback On Console Environmental Sustainability Features
This should never have been introduced without an option to turn it off. Your job as a business is to improve the player experience and do so profitably. Nothing more.
And test features do not belong on a live version of the game.
And test features do not belong on a live version of the game.
Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
Hey everyone,
I’ve been playing ESO since beta, and one of the things I’ve always loved is how diverse the community can be - different builds, different playstyles, different people all coming together.
But lately, I feel like discrimination and gatekeeping are at an all-time high.
Instead of helping or supporting each other, people are being excluded or mocked for their playstyle, identity, or simply not matching someone else’s “meta.”
Here’s an example that happened today, in vet pledge, so fairly medium LVL content, we're not talking about trifecta or else huh:
Meanwhile, this main arcanist :
- Left after 1 wipe
- Didn't focus adds and that's what wiped the group
- Had like 20k hp (no food buff?) and DIED FIRST
This is what happens when design forces everyone into a single box. People don’t want to carry anyone who doesn’t fit the exact mold, and players who experiment or just want to enjoy a different style get punished for it. I keep seeing people point fingers at the ESO community for being “toxic” or “gatekeeping,” but honestly? The root of the problem is ZOS.
ZOS keeps pushing heavy attack sets, but they’re some of the weakest and most frustrating designs I’ve ever seen. At the same time, everything is being funneled into the beam meta. The end result? Players are stuck in a corner: either you run the one style that ZOS clearly wants, or you get insulted, excluded, and told you’re “unviable.”
It’s not just about players being mean, it’s about how the game is designed. If sets and builds were actually balanced, if multiple playstyles were equally viable, there wouldn’t be this endless discrimination against anyone who isn’t running the current meta.
And here’s the real kicker: ZOS keeps advertising ESO with the slogan “Play how you want.” But the reality is the opposite, set design and balancing push everyone into the same narrow beam meta. If you actually try to “play how you want,” you’re punished for it even in basic content, whether through weak sets, bad scaling, or being excluded from groups. The marketing and the gameplay direction just don’t line up.
Sorry, your topic is "Discrimination and Gatekeeping".
Correct me if I'm wrong. You had a random group, and one dd left the group motivating it with others' play style.
Who was gatekept in this situation? If the player left the group, they did their choice, the rest of the group is free to keep playing. The player that left mocked themself, whatever they said. Because you keep running the dungeon and that player doesn't.
The group didn't exclude you for your playstyle and didn't require you to play another way. Did I miss something?
The other side of the situation is: what do you offer the player that doesn't like the group for some reason? Stay and struggle?
Nobody called to kick others or change their playstyle. No. The player just left.
Leaving the group you don't like is a fair part of "Play how you want". You pay the price like 15m of queuing timeout, but God save any game from prohibiting the option to leave the group.
So what do you offer? Stay in group and love whatever the group do?
This weekend I offered the lvl 48 fake tank in dlc dungeon, that he shouldn't hesitate to pull the stack.
Probably I discriminated against him for playing how he wanted. Way more than in your situation, because I offered to change his playstyle. What do you think?
Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
Well if some complained about the class of the tank in FG1 I say they are idiots.PurpleScroll wrote: »Oh I've had some really stupid toxicity from people in dungeons before. I enjoy playing a nightblade tank, it was a random normal daily and I got FG1 (urgh). No one died, we got through it quickly, but one DD at the end started insulting me because 'nightblades can't be tanks', thankfully the healer backed me up and said 'no one died? what's your problem?'.
That is for HM, for normal its way worse, as you can solo normal FG1 as a level 10.
Has not seen anything like this,
zaria
1
Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Toxicity and gatekeeping have been around longer than subclassing, longer than the Arcanist class, longer than "HA builds" became a "thing," and... wait for it... longer than ESO has been around! ZOS didn't create them, and doesn't encourage them. In fact, "toxicity" is one of the things you can report another player for-- although there isn't really a subcategory under it that seems appropriate for comments which insult or belittle other players.
Yep. This is a People problem before anything else.
Run with a decent (as in attitude towards others) pre-made group of people, and these problems don't exist.
Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
tomofhyrule wrote: »But the thing you don't see in other games is the second best build being less than 75% of the best build. And that's a lot of what we're seeing here.
On paper!
As I have been telling min/maxers in MMOs for over 25 years - the player matters. The "meta" is the build that on paper has the maximum (100%) damage potential. That doesn't mean every player can reach that maximum; some will not because the playstyle will not suit them, they will have a lack of engagement of (basically) working a job rather than having fun. Boredom breeds mistakes.
If the next build down is 75% of damage potential (it's really not that much of a gap) but the player loves the build, the playstyle, the class, the role, then they will be running at 100% of their efficiency on that build, but say theu are only 74% efficicency on the meta build because they can't stand it - which is the better option?!
The OPs point highlights this lack of thinking that exists within the playerbase. ZOS (imo) made the problem worse with introducing sub-classing, it will lead to less build diversity at end game, but a fair chunk of blame lies with the players. AS demonstrated by the OP.
Let's say that we have player A who is playing meta and is 100% efficient. And then we have player B playing off-meta, is 100% efficient with a build that can only do 75% of the meta. And then let's remember that no one is ever going to run consistently at 100% efficiency, no matter how much they like a build or how good of a player they are. And when the gap is at least 25% (at 100% efficiency) that disparity is likely even more pronounced for the hundreds of other players who are never going to be 100% at any build but are still pretty good and would still like to be an asset to their team.
The player matters, yes. I don't disagree. But throwing some numbers at it and saying "see, it's not that bad" doesn't fit this particular conversation.
heaven13
7
Re: Vengeance has officially ended the THREE BANNERS WAR
It has multiple reasons. The first Vengeance Test people were happy, finally something was done for PvP, it was something new, many participated and rightfully gave the feedback it runs great. Yet even in the first Vengeance there was a huge divide between PvP Opinion and PvE Opinion, PvE people think its great, because its so easy to get in and they won't get nuked by skilled people.
The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.
The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.
The second Test added Weapon lines, huge change and had a golden Pursuit, yet it was already evident after just a few days how the population got lower. It was not new anymore, not exciting it simply had no long term value playing after finishing the Golden Pursuit.
The third test now happens parallel to the biggest PvE Event without a golden pursuit. You could argue thats a reason people don't play it, but there is the point, PvE people do not play it because their event is more important to them, PvP people do not play it, because its just way to dumbed down. If Vengeance had any chance of longterm success people would still play it. PvP people often do not care for the Undaunted Event yet they are also not there. I think that shows very clearly that Vengeances "Success" Story is just short term, something you can do once in a while but not permanently. Those who play PvP regulary leave it be, those who don't leave after a few days, in the end thats just a downward spiral until no one plays PvP anymore.
L_Nici
10
Re: We should get a Battle Royale / Extraction PvP mode using Vengeance skills
As soon as I read Battle Royale my eyes rolled...
Please God NO!
Any particular reason why not? Is it because other games have that sort of mode? Does it not belong in ESO?
Re: This is how ESO recovers: a tale of two MMOs
3–5 minute queues in an MMO aren’t healthy, man. There’s plenty of data showing the population is dropping. Don’t turn this into politics, it’s a game, not a campaign.Yeah, you do need more people for it to be fun. Waiting 10 minutes for a 4v4 BG is ridiculous. I’ve got a life, do they really think people actually love BG that much?licenturion wrote: »I don't know where are this doom and gloom posting comes from in the recent weeks.
I find random dungeons, group finder trials, battlegrounds within 3-5 minutes. And when I put stuff up for sale I am usually annoyed that everything has sold withing 24 hours and I have to put up new stuff or my guild master is mad. XD
And when in public dungeons or delves I am usually 'oh no all the bosses are dead already' and have to wait. So the game is absolutely not dead.
I also expect a huge influx of players for the wall event and the next Vengeance test. Especially now that the summer season is over on the server that I play.
That's PC EU. Maybe on PC US everything is super dead, no idea... But you don't need 100 000 concurrent steam players to have fun in ESO.
Dock01
3