Asikoo wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

ZOS_Hadeostry wrote: »

I wanted to let @alakeyfox know that we have seen the post and are currently investigating the ticket you brought up. Everyone, please do not bring up side subjects or anything else off topic. We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand.

"We want to hear constructive feedback about the topic at hand."
Really? What more is there to “hear”?


- Players kick others simply because they can, nothing happens.
- Players gatekeep others simply because they can, nothing happens.
- Players demand “link all your items or you won’t join vKA”, nothing happens.
- Players require parses in Discord, removing others from the supposed “safe” rules, and force them to perform however they want, nothing happens.

So what more do you want to “hear,” and for what purpose? It’s obvious ZOS has no intention of addressing gatekeeping or punishing those who constantly do it. Let’s be honest here: you won’t take action, because you (ZoS) don’t care. So why pretend to want feedback on this topic at all?

EDIT:
JUST REMOVE THE DAMN DPS SHARING FROM THE GAME and ESOLogs, and all this nonsense goes away.

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I agree some players just are overwhelmed but it is not always the case. In a group setting everyone is expected to pull their weight. There are those who are willing to learn and there are those who flat out refuse...."

The truth is simple: ZOS doesn’t just allow this behavior, it enables it. By repeatedly saying "You can always make your own group" and providing tools to dissect DPSharing, logs, and performance, you’re not discouraging gatekeeping, you’re legitimizing it. The message players receive is clear: if someone doesn’t meet arbitrary standards, the official answer is essentially "Kick them out, it’s not our problem."

No, people need to know the metrics of those in the group. If you're not able to meet the minimum DPS for a new DLC vet dungeon, then the final boss will be a brick wall and you won't finish the dungeon. We don't have all the details, so for all we know the tank knew they couldn't clear it and wanted to get a different DPS that was able to. It would be more frustrating to be forced to leave after wasting time on multiple attempts because someone in the group queued for vet dungeon content when they're not ready for it and cannot pull their own weight.

Furthermore, the only reason I could think of why someone would want to hide those metrics would be because they don't understand the basics of combat and cannot be bothered to put the time into learning light attack weaving, the vet dungeon mechanics, and/or how to properly gear to achieve a minimum DPS of 20k to 30k.

Why should 3 group members have to suffer because 1 group member doesn't put in the time to get good, the obvious answer is they shouldn't have to. Of course, I don't know if that's what happened in OP's case, but just my opinion on the matter.

DPS sharing does far more harm than good. Instead of motivating people to improve, it just becomes another tool for gatekeeping, shaming, and kicking before anyone even has a fair chance to learn. And the worst part is that this doesn’t stop in-game, raid leaders and many guilds that focus on HM content require players to join Discord, post their parses, and then they get mocked, trolled, or outright bullied simply for having lower DPS. ZoS has a Code of Conduct meant to create a safe and respectful environment for players of any age, but the reality is that people are pushed outside of that “safe” environment into Discord, where the abuse is even worse. All because of DPS sharing and logs.

The truth is, most groups don’t wipe because someone is doing 20k instead of 130k, they wipe because mechanics aren’t followed, or people don’t have experience with the fight. A player who’s willing to learn mechanics and stay alive is infinitely more valuable than a "parse lord" who tunnels damage and dies instantly.

If the goal really was to help people get better, the community would focus on sharing tips and guidance, not demanding logs or spamming “link parse or kick.” DPS sharing just breeds toxicity, exclusion, and discourages players.

Another serious problem is how players are pushed out of the safe environment of the game and into Discord servers just to participate in raids or HM content. Once you’re there, you’re no longer protected by ZoS’s Code of Conduct, instead you’re exposed to every single post, comment, video, or "joke" people decide to share. That’s where the real bullying, mocking, and harassment happens, all justified under the excuse of "DPS performance".

So yeah, in my opinion, removing DPS sharing would cut down on gatekeeping and create a healthier environment overall because
you can see in logs whether a player performs well or poorly in mechanics. You don’t need DPS sharing for anything, except to bully others and force players away from the builds they actually enjoy.

DenverRalphy wrote: »

MGRza wrote: »

alakeyfox wrote: »

Hello,

I would like any ZOS employee to publicly confirm to us here that the following actions do not violate the ZOS code of conduct of ESO:

1. Join a random dungeon group
2. Proceed through 90% of the dungeon until the final boss
3. Attempt to kick 1 random
4. After failing to do so, bully them into leaving the group
5. Kick the other person out for refusing the kick the other person for no reason

I filed an in-game report, which was declined 10min later after a "thorough" investigation. Then I filed another report via the website, which was closed after 3 minutes, another "thorough" investigation I presume.

Not posting any screenshots, videos or names here yet. For ZOS employees the ticket number is 250822-001611. There's a video and screenshots attached of the 2 griefers admitting to griefing us after the failed kick attempt, subsequently kicking me out last for refusing the vote to kick.

If the above does not qualify as the violation of Code of Conduct, then I guess we are free to grief every group dungeon?

I had something like this happen last week, a New player made a mistake in a dungeon, and the tank was spamming the kick the whole rest of the dungeon, and when we simply didn't agree to kick the new player, the tank simply stood still, didn't fight or do anything for the rest of the dungeon.

Shoulda vote kicked the tank when they became petulant and refused to play.

Syldras wrote: »

I see he has an extraordinarily cruel owner.

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

Numbers decline, as said in many other threads. Need Crossplay

SAID and ARE are not the same thing. ZOS doesn't release players stats, but what we do KNOW is that according to Steam Stats the number of players now is the same as they were in 2019. There was a spike in 2020 - 2022 (you know when people couldn't leave the house).

So that's my imperical evidence. Where's yours?

July 2019 had 4k more average daily players and 6k more peak users on the Steam charts than July 2025. When you are talking an average player drop from 14.5k to 10.2k, that is a significant drop.

I never use the steam launcher as it is a tedious mess and still to this day bugs out on me on the single account I have linked to it. The ONLY device I have ever gotten it to work with is a steam deck and playing eso on a steam deck is sub optimal to desktop.

Asikoo wrote: »

amiiegee wrote: »

Ttree wrote: »

Were are you ?? as our numbers decline what are you doing in game to keep logging on ??

Numbers decline, as said in many other threads. Need Crossplay

I don’t understand why people keep asking for “crossplay” as if that would solve the current issues, when the real problem is the steady decline in player numbers. Crossplay, or other surface-level features, won’t fix that. What the game truly needs are meaningful improvements: better systems to encourage player engagement, measures to prevent gatekeeping, and changes that bring back the sense of community and fun that made ESO special in the first place.

Right now, the game feels like it’s slowly drowning. Crossplay or cosmetic gimmicks like swimming mounts won’t keep it above water, only real change will.

Speaking personally, Zenimax has taken away my reasons to care. First, they broke the trust I had in them. Then, the fun was lost. After that, the hope I once carried disappeared. Now, what remains is only indifference. And that didn’t happen because of me, it happened because of the decisions they made.
And with the nonsense subclassing system, all they did was to fill the void they created. They’ve made every possible decision to push me away from the game. Every single one.


edit:
Even when I reply to someone on this forum, all I can think is: "Well, this will probably be my last post, because I’ll get banned." So tell me, what’s left for players here? We can’t even speak our minds anymore.

NxJoeyD wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

As for skilled vs non skilled; that’s really not the cause of our issues.

The problems with BG’s right now are not because “experienced” players are being matched with “inexperienced” ones, that’s not the trend in BG match data we’re seeing.

The problems are mechanical based not experience based.

Man, your opinion is diametrically opposed to my own observations of 2-team BGs. Would you be able to elaborate on what exactly is going wrong mechanically, that can't be explained by them mixing the noobs and the sweats together?

Mixing experienced players and new players will always have a disparity in gameplay and that’s to be expected.

But what I’m talking about are the HEAVY imbalances in BG result trends, specifically, post subclassing.

We’re still seeing matches whereby a select two or three players far outpace the group average or trend in KDA, and that’s accounting for experienced players being on both sides of the field in matches.

I’m citing mechanics because the trend has gotten worse since SC and it’s not as if all of a sudden players got immensely more experience or out of nowhere we got in influx of noobs.

The state of BG’s has worsened, and more significantly recently. It’s unrealistic for any of us to assume that there have been drastic changes in the skill levels of players that is resulting in a consistent mis match of “super experienced” players versus “noobs” on a regular basis. There have always been a mix of experience bases in BG’s, that’s not new.

So that leaves mechanics.

And that makes sense when you do a deeper dive looking at feedback from these official forms, plus what’s contributed on Steam & Reddit, and other platforms.

Players are quickly figuring out which combination of build mechanics result in the least amount of counterplay and THAT is what’s making BG’s worse.

baltic1284 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Meridiano wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Did I catch everything?

Yes and no. You catch almost everything in a wrong way, distorting the words of those who wrote in this thread, including me, apparently. You read one thing, you don't get it right, you make wrong conclusions.

- There is a game feature that allows players to play moderator and kick another player from a dungeon run
Yes.

- There is a need to study/learn from 3rd party sources on mechanics of a dungeon
Yes.

- before one is allowed to run that dungeon
No.

- There is a DPS restriction on dungeons
In some dungeons, yes.

- Is there also Heal and Tank restrictions?
In some dungeons, yes.

- Players must share their builds or DPS before being allowed, by other players, to run a dungeon
No. Not dungeon. Some trials. For dungeons - only if you want top achievements there and you look for a static group to accept you.

- Player can be required to engage with third party services before being allowed to run a dungeon
The same as above.

- The majority of the dungeon is ignored so the bosses can be 'farmed.'
Depends on a group. Some try to skip, some not.

- One must join guilds in order to avoid being kicked or bullied in a PUG
Must? No.

Forgive, I am not twisting anything. We are talking about which conduct is permitted and what the moderates consider bullying. Each thing that I wrote is a paraphrase of what players in this thread want to kick or disallow other players for. The OP referenced dungeons so I am speaking of dungeons in general, perhaps trials are included. It feels like a group of players want control of the group dungeons through their own personal vetting process. For a guild, this process is fine. However, the OP referenced 'random' dungeons so I am assuming we are speaking of PUG.

I can only hope that the ZOS does NOT think it okay for players to determine who can and cannot run a group dungeon at any level or any other group exclusive content. With the concept of an entire Vet Overland being discussed on another thread, I feel concern about what might be considered acceptable behavior within such content. If there is In fact a stat requirement for a dungeon / trial /group content, then let the dungeon test and determine that not other players. The authority to exclude other players from game content should NEVER be in the hands of another player. Never.

What you gathered from the thread is mostly related to vet content. You also mentioned that you were considering trying again group dungeons. I assume that means non-vet. If so, no one is going to ask for your DPS or to join Discord. Yes, you will encounter speed runners and farmers, that is a given. But no one is going to gate keep you from joining a PUG for random normal dungeon be it a base game one or a DLC one.

It is not an issue anymore. My mind is made up. I am not willing to walk into that level of toxicity even at the normal group-dungeon level. I will avoid content that requires group play, put my money where I play, and leave the moderation to the authorities.

I don't blame you if you don't want to do Dungeons of any kind in the game as you are right that part of the community is so toxic it drives player away from the game, I do also agree that those players that are being that toxic and damaging to the community need to be removed from the community. But unfortunately, I don't see ZOS doing anything at all about it to clean that part of the community up, I would also go for that all dungeons in general not only be for groups and difficulty, but also single player supported, yet again I don't see ZOS doing that either. One of those no matter what we think up to curb this issue in any way, it ultimately falls on ZOS to either implement it or enforce it, and the history on those is pretty poor at the moment. Doesn't mean it can't change in due time which it needs to change, I just don't see that happening till it is to late or it is at a point that recovering from it and doing something about it is far gone that no matter what is thought up won't make a difference.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

.

kargen27 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Asikoo wrote: »

One of the biggest problems in ESO is exactly this mindset. Too many players think they have to follow whatever setup the meta or esologs shows, and ZOS keeps ignoring how unhealthy that is for the game.

If you want to play a Nightblade, just play it. Enjoy the class and the game itself. Chasing numbers only because “that’s what DPS charts say” is nothing but fake power at the cost of your own fun. That’s why so many players burn out, they stop enjoying the game for what it actually offers and instead just follow whatever DPS addon or parse video is trendy.

I’m honestly glad I stopped putting money into this game, because until ZOS starts encouraging choice instead of funneling everyone into the same cookie-cutter builds, the community will keep repeating the same cycle.


EDIT:
I saw someone say this about D4 to Blizzard: "Why don’t you just let the game die? You’ve completely lost the essence of D4."

Well, I feel the same;
ZoS, Can you stop with all the nonsense you’ve created around the Elder Scrolls just to squeeze out maximum profit? If you truly don’t care about the spirit of the game anymore, then just let it die, close the servers. The Elder Scrolls deserves far better than this.

I don't know, man... I tend to blame the players - if someone wants to forever chase the META that's on him...

Maybe bad take on my part but it's just my opinion.

I am so tired of hearing this "hot take." It basically belongs in the same bin as "oh, you have a stomachache? Well, that's your fault since you could drink arsenic and then your stomachache would go away really fast!" It's one of those 'fixes' that doesn't really solve any problems at all.

Look, this is not TES6. This is an MMO. That means other people are around. And that means that if you're doing endgame PvP or PvE, you cannot go into the way you want to play and expect to have any success without acknowledging the meta. Because either way, if you're coming in with something non-meta, you will be facing others who do have the meta, and you will be compared to them.

Now of course a meta will always exist. But pre U46, it was not this bad. Yes, trial teams were primarily Arcanists, but there was always a slot or two for a support DPS like an MKSorc or Z'enDK or Templar beam bot, and even things like a Corpseburster Necro outDPSed the Arcanists. Trials always had a Warden healer, but the other could be a Templar or Sorc or NB ore really anything but a DK. DK Tanks were generally good, but there were times that Sorc or Necro tanks were better choices.
And now: "If you are a DPS, these are your three lines. If you are a healer, here are the two setups. If you are a tank, here are the two setups." Basically no variety anymore.

The fact that in U46-47 there's one meta to rule them all is a game problem, not a player problem. If that one specific meta weren't so much more powerful than anything else, then people would be able to bring something else. But even the best player in the world would do better on the meta setup than on whatever they wanted to bring, and that's just indicative of a terribly balanced game.

I've noticed that the people who make the "lol just don't play meta!" argument tend to avoid PvP or endgame PvE or group play in general, and mostly stick to soloing everything. They tend to think of ESO as their TES6 proxy. And they love that they can make whatever build they want since their gameplay doesn't depend on others. But the players who are involved in endgame do have more issues with being shoehorned into one setup because nothing else even comes close to that. After all, look at the responses from the "how did you feel about U46?" thread - most of the people who are not happy with Subclassing talk about how they do endgame content and how they're being forced to play one specific combo to remain competitive, whereas most of the people who are happy talk about how they can solo things they couldn't before and how they can now make their elementalist or zookeeper a reality.

If your end game is making the leader board then you need the meta build. Competitive battle grounds you also for the most part need a meta build. If you are in a guild that has dueling competitions and you take it serious you need a meta build.

Nothing else in the game needs a meta build. It hasn't for a very long time. So if your end game isn't battle grounds, leader boards or dueling you don't need a meta for your end game.

But as I've always asked anytime someone gave this argument, and never yet have gotten an answer for: please list the Discords for trial groups doing HMs that allow players to bring off-meta builds for the benefit of players who want to do high-level content but not play the one single meta.
Seems all the "you don't have to play meta!" people actually don't know where you can reasonably go to play high level content without playing meta...