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Werewolf Discussion Thread

MonarchChief
MonarchChief
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Seeing as there isn't a thread on the topic, I figured I'd make one.
  • Werewolf
    • Call of the Pack: Redesigned this passive ability so it now reduces the cost of staying in Werewolf form by 10/20% for each transformed Werewolf in your group, including yourself, up to a maximum of 40/80% at Ranks I/II.
    • Pack Leader (Werewolf Transformation morph): Redesigned this morph so it now summons 2 dire wolf companions to fight by your side for the duration of your transformation. If killed, the dire wolves will return after 16/14/12/10 seconds at Ranks I/II/III/IV respectively.

For starters, I love the CotP change. Makes it a passive that is actually worth investing in now. What I don't like however, is the Pack Leader change. Yes it's cool and different, but the entire reason players who chose Pack Leader over Berserker was for the time management. Maybe some chose it to have white fur, I don't know - it's irrelevant, really. In any case, with the slated change, I do not see a reason to pick this morph over Berserker. With Berserker, you will get consistent damage whereas with this morph, if your wolves die, well tough luck - gotta wait for the respawn (which seems a little long, might I add). Moreover, from what I've seen on streams, namely King Richard, the dire wolves don't actually do that much damage.

Furthermore, there are already reports of the pets getting in the way. Blood Rage seems like it will be a crucial passive now that Pack Leader can't regen time at will. Your pets drawing aggro away from you makes Berserker clearly the superior morph. Why would I want something to prevent me from adding to what little time I already have? Also, if the pets act anything like Sorc pets do, they will constantly get in the way of Devouring. I can't count how many times I've lost WW because a groupmate's pet stood on top of the body I was trying to eat. Looks like that may happen here, only this time you'll be the cause of it yourself.

ZOS seems dead set on keeping WW a non-toggle and instead keeping it timer based. In that case, why not make Devour automatically add time upon death? Make it work like how experience gain works; if you were in the top x amount of players who contributed to the target's death, then you automatically gain the time bonus when they fall. Also, maybe make it so that the dire wolves heal you upon death, similar to the clannfear pet. Maybe they could even give you buffs while they're alive. Anything really, because as it is, aside from the visuals, there's no reason to given up the dependability of the Berserker morph. You already have so little time while transformed that this change to the Pack Leader morph just makes it much too inconsistent to even consider.
Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • CP5
    CP5
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    I'll say it here again. Pack leader is now the more interesting morph since it both looks interesting and plays differently, but the pets keep the problems I have when running ww near allies. So even after the update beserker is boring but effective and pack leader is flashy but intentionally makes itself harder to manage. At least the dire wolves could stick around when they die so they could be devoured, that would be somewhat useful.
  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    What if the dire wolves could count as allied wolves? That way, a singular Pack Leader would immediately get a 60% reduction to the draining of their time while a singular Berserker would only have 20%?

    EDIT: Maybe instead of having to devour your wolf, the wolf adds the amount of time the devour would automatically? So you still have to devour enemies you kill, but if the wolf dies, you get that time automatically.

    Also, how would you feel if the dire wolves applied Minor Maim? Or would that be too OP?
    Edited by MonarchChief on April 26, 2016 7:31PM
    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • CP5
    CP5
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    I think the pack leader could work well with more control, so having the wolves act like nb shades with the primary goal being to debuff targets could work. The 60% reduction would be a little on the strong side but would help smaller ww groups get good up-times on the passive, but I like the idea of the wolves refreshing the timer somewhat when killed.
  • Elevenstorm
    Elevenstorm
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    I would definitely support a refund of ultimate for cutting the transformation short. I can't tell you the amount of times I intentionally cut my WW short to stealth in pvp or add defensive buffs like shuffle/rally. Also, the amount of times my timer ends in the most inopportune times....
  • Birdovic
    Birdovic
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    That Morph sounds like its just made for one Set: Hunt Leader
    Maybe this allows for some interesting combinations.
    Also the dmg of those wolves needs to go up and as mentioend before me, the shouldnt be in the way when devouring etc.

  • Aerius_Sygale
    Aerius_Sygale
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    Was really excited, but this novel idea seems to do the player more harm than good... Might be so long white fur... ;-; If only they came back promptly as they should, actually dealt damage (a meaningful amount) and most of all don't get in the way of devouring... :/
    PS4/PS5, NA | PSN: AeriusSygale | Alliance War Rank 50 (Grand Overlord Grade 2) | CP: 2730+
  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    Was really excited, but this novel idea seems to do the player more harm than good... Might be so long white fur... ;-; If only they came back promptly as they should, actually dealt damage (a meaningful amount) and most of all don't get in the way of devouring... :/

    Yeah that's how I'm feeling. When I first read the patch notes I was crazy excited. The more I think about it though, the more I wish it was never changed in the first place.
    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • Aztlan
    Aztlan
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    I really like the changes, especially the change to Call of the Pack. And I agree that the pack leader dire wolves should have a substantial benefit, whether damage or buff, and not just be about the looks (which are probably pretty cool).

    However, I am worried about our vulnerability to poison with all these new crafted poisons coming out. Also, are we more vulnerable to stamina DKs now? I'm afraid we're all going to have to maximize poison resistance, through CPs and glyphs, to have a chance in PvP.
  • Gottbeard
    Gottbeard
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    Please give us back our timer on heavy atks. Keep the cool puppies.
  • Eas007
    Eas007
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    Being a wolf enthousiast l like the dire wolfs flavorwise. But as OP stated l went with this morph for the extra time. Sad to see that go. They could add time everytime your pet hits a target maybe...

    Wondering about poisons as well. And vamp got more fire resist while Dks deal less fire...
    Edited by Eas007 on April 28, 2016 6:31PM
    United we stand, divided we fall. Shields as one!
  • leandro.800ub17_ESO
    leandro.800ub17_ESO
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    So the 2 dire wolf are considered pets in terms of the HUNT set ?
  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    Eas007 wrote: »
    Being a wolf enthousiast l like the dire wolfs flavorwise. But as OP stated l went with this morph for the extra time. Sad to see that go. They could add time everytime your pet hits a target maybe...

    Wondering about poisons as well. And vamp got more fire resist while Dks deal less fire...

    I would actually love that. Keep the wolf respawn the same as it is, maybe a little shorter, but every time a dire wolf lands a hit, you get 2 sec back. Also, fix the pets getting in the way of devour bug.
    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    Shower Thought:

    What if we got a craftable set like this?

    Hircine's Favor
    (2 items) Adds 967 Max Stamina
    (3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
    (4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
    (5 items) Removes the timer effect from Werewolf Transformation

    That way, it acts like Shieldbreaker. We can build a specific way if we want, but it won't be everywhere as people will still want other 5pc bonuses. The 2-4 bonuses ensure that the set isn't useless compared to something like Morkuldin. Plus, this way, ZOS won't have to really change anything in the WW skill line. Just create a set that cancels the timer and boom, done.
    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • exiledtyrant
    exiledtyrant
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    I still don't feel compelled to use werewolf because the timer is so prohibitive. Then again I haven't built my sorcerer around ultimate gen and ultimate cost reduction either to decrease my werewolf downtime. Werewolf feels to all or nothing. Sure you could piece together outdated sets and use sword and shield with the new weighted trait to rapidly gain ultimate. That doesn't really appeal to me though.
    If all are brethren
    How could my hands not tremble
    As breath fled my prey?

    What blinds my vision?
    My hands are tools; it must be
    The haze of blossoms

    -Salous the Penitent
  • Fischblut
    Fischblut
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    After PTS, I can't even enjoy playing my Pack leader on live now. Ghost image of those annoying "companions" is always there, and I already feel like my heavy attacks do nothing but damage :/ What has been seen, can not be unseen...

    If people like those pets, this could be new separate ability for every werewolf, even for those who are not morphed. It won't be mandatory - just a personal decision which ability player will sacrifice on their bar in order to have "cool pets".
  • Gottbeard
    Gottbeard
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    So the 2 dire wolf are considered pets in terms of the HUNT set ?

    Yes they do.

  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    The thing is, I don't think anyone from ZOS has even acknowledged all these WW threads. WW was is fine on live, minus the CotP change..
    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • MonarchChief
    MonarchChief
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    Caelonas Barkstrider Bosmer Nightblade AD Tank
    Adriènne Clairmont Breton Templar AD Healer
    Aureline Direnni Altmer Sorceror AD DPS
  • JLAMAR22
    JLAMAR22
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    This thread seriously needs more attention. Some of the ideas here are great. Open your eyes! @ZoS
  • Aztlan
    Aztlan
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    *Howl!*
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