Werewolf... Can we get a toggle style?

Cathexis · April 2016

Don't get me wrong, werewolf is great. And the casting cost is spot on.

The problem is you can be in the middle of a fight and suddenly have to shift out of werewolf to access your other skill bars. Werewolf would be a lot more effective as a tactical utility instead of just being a burst tool if wolfs could have more control over their shifts. Hell, even if it's only pack leader that does it. I'd take a hit on the light attack bleed damage for more shift control.

Vyperia · April 2016

Have to agree with you here.
I'd just say make pressing the ultimate button when in form bring you out, I think it should reset your ulti though.

That alone would give players greater control

Jim_Pipp · April 2016

My main is a werewolf and I agree that werewolves are great fun to play and it is annoying to have to transform out of werewolf to activate an important skill (or access a different area). However that is one of the costs of being a werewolf and it is very lore friendly (I also like how vampires will now only get all there passives when they are blood-starved).

So it would be absolutely awesome if werewolf characters were toggleable, just like it would be awesome if we could slot non werewolf skills on the skill bar, but both of those would be lore breaking.

I would support a new armour set that had a five piece bonus which turned werewolf transformation into a toggleable, as any werewolf player who chose to play that way would have to sacrifice a different armour combination.

Gottbeard · April 2016

I want them to leave ww ultimate alone. A toggle would ruin it for me and feel clunky. I like needing to master ww to control my timer.

Cathexis · April 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

I want them to leave ww ultimate alone. A toggle would ruin it for me and feel clunky. I like needing to master ww to control my timer.

What I'm suggesting is that the non berserker be toggle based while the berserker remains timer based. Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

CP5 · April 2016

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

My main is a werewolf and I agree that werewolves are great fun to play and it is annoying to have to transform out of werewolf to activate an important skill (or access a different area). However that is one of the costs of being a werewolf and it is very lore friendly (I also like how vampires will now only get all there passives when they are blood-starved).

So it would be absolutely awesome if werewolf characters were toggleable, just like it would be awesome if we could slot non werewolf skills on the skill bar, but both of those would be lore breaking.

I would support a new armour set that had a five piece bonus which turned werewolf transformation into a toggleable, as any werewolf player who chose to play that way would have to sacrifice a different armour combination.

It isn't lore friendly that a werewolf in the middle of combat would revert form. But in all honesty i'm tired of the 'slam face in ground' and 'jump in the red' play-style that ww encourages, and my favorite suggestion that I remember reading was "You build up ultimate normally to turn into a werewolf, but you can't revert until you build up that much ultimate again to turn back." That way you commit to the transformation and get decent time out of it, at a cost. It was the most interesting suggestion I have seen.

Cathexis · April 2016

CP5 wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

My main is a werewolf and I agree that werewolves are great fun to play and it is annoying to have to transform out of werewolf to activate an important skill (or access a different area). However that is one of the costs of being a werewolf and it is very lore friendly (I also like how vampires will now only get all there passives when they are blood-starved).

So it would be absolutely awesome if werewolf characters were toggleable, just like it would be awesome if we could slot non werewolf skills on the skill bar, but both of those would be lore breaking.

I would support a new armour set that had a five piece bonus which turned werewolf transformation into a toggleable, as any werewolf player who chose to play that way would have to sacrifice a different armour combination.

It isn't lore friendly that a werewolf in the middle of combat would revert form. But in all honesty i'm tired of the 'slam face in ground' and 'jump in the red' play-style that ww encourages, and my favorite suggestion that I remember reading was "You build up ultimate normally to turn into a werewolf, but you can't revert until you build up that much ultimate again to turn back." That way you commit to the transformation and get decent time out of it, at a cost. It was the most interesting suggestion I have seen.

Yeah but see that's sort of the problem, being able to downshift is a necessity at times. It's nice to try and respect the lore, but in combat where you can be hypothetically dropped from full health to death in a fraction of a second, having to wait a full minute or more to shift is.... Not practical. It would make werewolfs sitting ducks.

At present, it's mostly just inconvenient to have to downshift and tank for a minute before you can shift back.

Gottbeard · April 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

I want them to leave ww ultimate alone. A toggle would ruin it for me and feel clunky. I like needing to master ww to control my timer.

What I'm suggesting is that the non berserker be toggle based while the berserker remains timer based. Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

The pack leader morph is the one I use. It's the best. Leave it alone.

Farorin · April 2016

I wouldn't be happy with it being overload style, it would restrict my burst, which is what I like WW for in the first place. Sustaining WW form is pretty easy now as compared to how it used to be anyway, so there is no real problem.

Cathexis · April 2016

Farorin wrote: »

I wouldn't be happy with it being overload style, it would restrict my burst, which is what I like WW for in the first place. Sustaining WW form is pretty easy now as compared to how it used to be anyway, so there is no real problem.

Sustain isnt the issue, it's needing to shift out dynamically with combat demands.

Cathexis · April 2016

Gottbeard wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Gottbeard wrote: »

I want them to leave ww ultimate alone. A toggle would ruin it for me and feel clunky. I like needing to master ww to control my timer.

What I'm suggesting is that the non berserker be toggle based while the berserker remains timer based. Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

The pack leader morph is the one I use. It's the best. Leave it alone.

Really? What about pack leader makes it better than a massive bleed damage bonus.. And there is no drawback to making it a toggle. You don't lose anything by allowing it to dynamically shift. If anything, if I recall correctly, it would make pairing with werewolf berserkers more effective.

Perhaps I should be clearer.. I mean make it a toggle, not cost ult per hit.

RoyJade · April 2016

Pack leader have an amazing sustain helper (4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack), and with the BD maj it gain two summoned wolf on your side. And the color look great too.

By the way, the main thing I'ld like to see for werewolf is a passive foes detection like a permanent magelight. Werewolves are trackers, they should senses nearby enemies, and without the ability to switch skill they need a magelight passive effect. I know there is detect pots, but it's less lore friendly.

cpuScientist · April 2016

More importantly can we get black fur for the beserker morph

Cathexis · April 2016

RoyJade wrote: »

Pack leader have an amazing sustain helper (4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack), and with the BD maj it gain two summoned wolf on your side. And the color look great too.

By the way, the main thing I'ld like to see for werewolf is a passive foes detection like a permanent magelight. Werewolves are trackers, they should senses nearby enemies, and without the ability to switch skill they need a magelight passive effect. I know there is detect pots, but it's less lore friendly.

Also an interesting thought...I tend to agree since ww has no aoe that seems to break cloak and you cant pop magelight.

Werewolf heavy attack isn't great though, even weaving it. You aren't going to be able to pull off heavy attacks while multiple players are raking on you fast enough to recharge stam. 40% more bleed damage is insanely better for burst combos, but the two wolf pets thing is new and I didnt realize they added it, it may definitely make them more competitive. Still would prefer the ability to shift up and down though.

Ajaxduo · April 2016

But guys we need fur dying pls, I want to be bright pink! But yeah im not so sure about a toggle, it being an ultimate is fine. We need some way to refund ultimate when turning back into human form though.

Cathexis · April 2016

Ajaxduo wrote: »

But guys we need fur dying pls, I want to be bright pink! But yeah im not so sure about a toggle, it being an ultimate is fine. We need some way to refund ultimate when turning back into human form though.

Yes and yes please.

Fischblut · April 2016

If nothing changes, Pack Leader's only purpose will be destroyed on May 31. Don't waste your time on PTS, enjoy your white hunters while you still can

- then you'll switch to Berserker, because only this morph will be useful. I don't have beasts on NA server, so I wasted a day just to level up WW on template character and test new "pack" leader - after I saw what they have done to this morph, I immediately run to the world boss to commit suicide and logged out for good.

"Who cares that Pack leader no longer has the only thing which made him useful? Yes, no more + 2 seconds on each heavy attack for him and his allies! Ah, just look at these cute doggies! Sure, they could be just a pets in Crown Store, but why? Everyone, take this morph to get such amazing pets! They are so useful and strong, and they won't ruin anyone's atmosphere!"

The only bit of improvement which werewolves will get is change to Call of the pack passive - for those people who actually have ww gang. And no matter what color your fur will be after May 31, say "bye bye" to all awesome continuous boss fights. They can last more than 30 sec + 80%

Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

Currently, Pack leader is the beast if you value each second just to remain transformed

Timer pauses when you begin to charge attack and goes up when attack lands - this thing saved me many times when it was like millisecond before my timer could expire! Then blood rage passive joins, and the fight continues

Berserker alone is good only as Ultimate, it will never keep you transformed long enough while soloing tough bosses. But group these two to fight together, and this will be awesome team - Berserker does more damage, while Pack Leader helps them both to remain transformed.

4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack

Unfortunately, it's always + 2 seconds, even on Pack Leader IV

But yes, half-charged attacks are beautiful, at least in PvE. As WW is forced to act stupid to receive more time (standing in red, trying to eat in the middle of the fight, running away enough from an enemy just to perform Feral Pounce), I usually gather mobs around me and perform partially charged attack on all of them.

I just hope that the timer will go away someday. Only after that, if the transformation itself will be toggle, not using Ultimate, I will cry from happiness. I'll transform to humanoid when I need to craft, and then back to werewolf until I log out. Unlike other people, I never choose to go back to humanoid, it's the timer which expires... When in fight I see that I'm dying and I know that I have class and weapon abilities which could save me, I don't even think about changing my form - I fight like a beast with all my power, I die like a beast with all my weaknesses.

Cathexis · April 2016

Fischblut wrote: »

If nothing changes, Pack Leader's only purpose will be destroyed on May 31. Don't waste your time on PTS, enjoy your white hunters while you still can - then you'll switch to Berserker, because only this morph will be useful. I don't have beasts on NA server, so I wasted a day just to level up WW on template character and test new "pack" leader - after I saw what they have done to this morph, I immediately run to the world boss to commit suicide and logged out for good.

"Who cares that Pack leader no longer has the only thing which made him useful? Yes, no more + 2 seconds on each heavy attack for him and his allies! Ah, just look at these cute doggies! Sure, they could be just a pets in Crown Store, but why? Everyone, take this morph to get such amazing pets! They are so useful and strong, and they won't ruin anyone's atmosphere!"

The only bit of improvement which werewolves will get is change to Call of the pack passive - for those people who actually have ww gang. And no matter what color your fur will be after May 31, say "bye bye" to all awesome continuous boss fights. They can last more than 30 sec + 80%

Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

Currently, Pack leader is the beast if you value each second just to remain transformed Timer pauses when you begin to charge attack and goes up when attack lands - this thing saved me many times when it was like millisecond before my timer could expire! Then blood rage passive joins, and the fight continues Berserker alone is good only as Ultimate, it will never keep you transformed long enough while soloing tough bosses. But group these two to fight together, and this will be awesome team - Berserker does more damage, while Pack Leader helps them both to remain transformed.

4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack

Unfortunately, it's always + 2 seconds, even on Pack Leader IV But yes, half-charged attacks are beautiful, at least in PvE. As WW is forced to act stupid to receive more time (standing in red, trying to eat in the middle of the fight, running away enough from an enemy just to perform Feral Pounce), I usually gather mobs around me and perform partially charged attack on all of them.

I just hope that the timer will go away someday. Only after that, if the transformation itself will be toggle, not using Ultimate, I will cry from happiness. I'll transform to humanoid when I need to craft, and then back to werewolf until I log out. Unlike other people, I never choose to go back to humanoid, it's the timer which expires... When in fight I see that I'm dying and I know that I have class and weapon abilities which could save me, I don't even think about changing my form - I fight like a beast with all my power, I die like a beast with all my weaknesses.

... TL:DR, toggle mode changes nothing for PvE for pack leader, and would be enjoyed greatly by pure wolf types.

Saucy_Jack · April 2016

Well, in previous ES games there's the precedent of Hircine's Ring, which allows a werewolf to control where/when they transform. Could there could be a WW quest that gives the ring at the end?

Wearing it would change the transform from a timed ultimate into a toggle; the tradeoff being that it would take up a jewelry slot.

Another possibility would be to make it a momento, which when used would trigger the transform. Would still be timed, but once the timer's up you could just use the momento to transform again immediately.

Thoughts?

Ajaxduo · April 2016

Fischblut wrote: »

If nothing changes, Pack Leader's only purpose will be destroyed on May 31. Don't waste your time on PTS, enjoy your white hunters while you still can - then you'll switch to Berserker, because only this morph will be useful. I don't have beasts on NA server, so I wasted a day just to level up WW on template character and test new "pack" leader - after I saw what they have done to this morph, I immediately run to the world boss to commit suicide and logged out for good.

"Who cares that Pack leader no longer has the only thing which made him useful? Yes, no more + 2 seconds on each heavy attack for him and his allies! Ah, just look at these cute doggies! Sure, they could be just a pets in Crown Store, but why? Everyone, take this morph to get such amazing pets! They are so useful and strong, and they won't ruin anyone's atmosphere!"

The only bit of improvement which werewolves will get is change to Call of the pack passive - for those people who actually have ww gang. And no matter what color your fur will be after May 31, say "bye bye" to all awesome continuous boss fights. They can last more than 30 sec + 80%

Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

Currently, Pack leader is the beast if you value each second just to remain transformed Timer pauses when you begin to charge attack and goes up when attack lands - this thing saved me many times when it was like millisecond before my timer could expire! Then blood rage passive joins, and the fight continues Berserker alone is good only as Ultimate, it will never keep you transformed long enough while soloing tough bosses. But group these two to fight together, and this will be awesome team - Berserker does more damage, while Pack Leader helps them both to remain transformed.

4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack

Unfortunately, it's always + 2 seconds, even on Pack Leader IV But yes, half-charged attacks are beautiful, at least in PvE. As WW is forced to act stupid to receive more time (standing in red, trying to eat in the middle of the fight, running away enough from an enemy just to perform Feral Pounce), I usually gather mobs around me and perform partially charged attack on all of them.

I just hope that the timer will go away someday. Only after that, if the transformation itself will be toggle, not using Ultimate, I will cry from happiness. I'll transform to humanoid when I need to craft, and then back to werewolf until I log out. Unlike other people, I never choose to go back to humanoid, it's the timer which expires... When in fight I see that I'm dying and I know that I have class and weapon abilities which could save me, I don't even think about changing my form - I fight like a beast with all my power, I die like a beast with all my weaknesses.

I don't like the red wolf xD why can't they both be white?

KenaPKK · April 2016

But.....that completely defeats the purpose of werewolf.

It's not a toggle lorewise. It's a long lasting transformation that lasts through the full moon. It's fine as it is. If you want to use your other abilities, don't go werewolf.

k9mouse · April 2016

CP5 wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

My main is a werewolf and I agree that werewolves are great fun to play and it is annoying to have to transform out of werewolf to activate an important skill (or access a different area). However that is one of the costs of being a werewolf and it is very lore friendly (I also like how vampires will now only get all there passives when they are blood-starved).

So it would be absolutely awesome if werewolf characters were toggleable, just like it would be awesome if we could slot non werewolf skills on the skill bar, but both of those would be lore breaking.

I would support a new armour set that had a five piece bonus which turned werewolf transformation into a toggleable, as any werewolf player who chose to play that way would have to sacrifice a different armour combination.

It isn't lore friendly that a werewolf in the middle of combat would revert form. But in all honesty i'm tired of the 'slam face in ground' and 'jump in the red' play-style that ww encourages, and my favorite suggestion that I remember reading was "You build up ultimate normally to turn into a werewolf, but you can't revert until you build up that much ultimate again to turn back." That way you commit to the transformation and get decent time out of it, at a cost. It was the most interesting suggestion I have seen.

I like this idea!

Cathexis · April 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

But.....that completely defeats the purpose of werewolf.

It's not a toggle lorewise. It's a long lasting transformation that lasts through the full moon. It's fine as it is. If you want to use your other abilities, don't go werewolf.

Lore is flexible... And previous game mechanics aren't exactly lore... And if it lasts through he full moon why can I activate it whenever I have enough ult.... Just a few holes here in your rationale.

CP5 · April 2016

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Fischblut wrote: »

If nothing changes, Pack Leader's only purpose will be destroyed on May 31. Don't waste your time on PTS, enjoy your white hunters while you still can - then you'll switch to Berserker, because only this morph will be useful. I don't have beasts on NA server, so I wasted a day just to level up WW on template character and test new "pack" leader - after I saw what they have done to this morph, I immediately run to the world boss to commit suicide and logged out for good.

"Who cares that Pack leader no longer has the only thing which made him useful? Yes, no more + 2 seconds on each heavy attack for him and his allies! Ah, just look at these cute doggies! Sure, they could be just a pets in Crown Store, but why? Everyone, take this morph to get such amazing pets! They are so useful and strong, and they won't ruin anyone's atmosphere!"

The only bit of improvement which werewolves will get is change to Call of the pack passive - for those people who actually have ww gang. And no matter what color your fur will be after May 31, say "bye bye" to all awesome continuous boss fights. They can last more than 30 sec + 80%

Currently there is little incentive to take the non berserker morph anyway.

Currently, Pack leader is the beast if you value each second just to remain transformed Timer pauses when you begin to charge attack and goes up when attack lands - this thing saved me many times when it was like millisecond before my timer could expire! Then blood rage passive joins, and the fight continues Berserker alone is good only as Ultimate, it will never keep you transformed long enough while soloing tough bosses. But group these two to fight together, and this will be awesome team - Berserker does more damage, while Pack Leader helps them both to remain transformed.

4 more second each heavy attack, work on weaved medium attack

Unfortunately, it's always + 2 seconds, even on Pack Leader IV But yes, half-charged attacks are beautiful, at least in PvE. As WW is forced to act stupid to receive more time (standing in red, trying to eat in the middle of the fight, running away enough from an enemy just to perform Feral Pounce), I usually gather mobs around me and perform partially charged attack on all of them.

I just hope that the timer will go away someday. Only after that, if the transformation itself will be toggle, not using Ultimate, I will cry from happiness. I'll transform to humanoid when I need to craft, and then back to werewolf until I log out. Unlike other people, I never choose to go back to humanoid, it's the timer which expires... When in fight I see that I'm dying and I know that I have class and weapon abilities which could save me, I don't even think about changing my form - I fight like a beast with all my power, I die like a beast with all my weaknesses.

I don't like the red wolf xD why can't they both be white?

They were both white when I ran pack leader on pts. Guess the skill can summon different wolves and some aren't white.

KenaPKK wrote: »

But.....that completely defeats the purpose of werewolf.

It's not a toggle lorewise. It's a long lasting transformation that lasts through the full moon. It's fine as it is. If you want to use your other abilities, don't go werewolf.

If you want to speak "lore", why would a ww drop out of transformation when in the middle of a fight? I greatly doubt one of hircine's hounds would stop the hunt early.