Official Feedback Thread for Champion System Updates

Nifty2g · October 2015

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

DisgracefulMind · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

Tbh, now that I've thought about it and messed around on PTS a bit, I like the change and I like the XP scaling the higher CP rank you get. The only problem is that it should have been that way from the start, and now players are going to feel the grind towards the end of a season (if they're not at cap or close to it when it goes live) trying to hit cap.

Other than that, it all looks fine to me.

animexhero21_ESO · October 2015

Champion rank cap = Hurting the hardcore player in order to fix a design flaw.
Fix the real issue make a better catch-up system.

Lucky28 · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

Most people i've spoken with wanted a better catch up mechanic not a cap and harsh grind.

Daveheart · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

If they choose to slow my ability to get further into the next cap or your ability to do so, that's not that big of an issue in my mind. However, if we end up losing other good players, that is a big deal to me. I also fail to see why it should be harder than it is currently for a player to earn a CP if they're sitting around 340 cp:

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

If they choose to slow my ability to get further into the next cap or your ability to do so, that's not that big of an issue in my mind. However, if we end up losing other good players, that is a big deal to me. I also fail to see why it should be harder than it is currently for a player to
danno8 wrote: »
Asmael wrote: »
DisgracefulMind wrote: »

So at CP rank 543 it will take me 1,870,740 XP to get to CP rank 544. This seems a bit excessive, particularly with a CP catch-up mechanic being implemented for other players.

Based on that, supposing the base XP required is still 400k XP, and each CP costs as much as the previous one with a slight multiplier, I calculated that, considering X being the cost of CP(n), the cost of CP(n+1) is CP(n) * 1.002850225.

JS Code snippet for yas...
var baseXp = 400000
var factor = 1.002850225
var upToCount = 550

for(var cpCount = 1 ; cpCount < upToCount ; cpCount++){
  console.log(cpCount + '|' + Math.round(baseXp)) 
  baseXp *= factor
}
It does match the cost at this rank. This is but a supposition, don't take it for granted
FYI I just went from CP rank 347 to 348, and the requirement was 410k and it is now 411k. Maybe that will help flesh out your calculation a little bit. Clearly it is not a linear line though.

silky_soft · October 2015

So they didn't implement the catchup to scale off the highest 2% of CP earners? They are scaling it off the CP cap?

Nifty2g · October 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

Most people i've spoken with wanted a better catch up mechanic not a cap and harsh grind.

And this is why grinders get something out of it while the others still need to catch up. ZOS can't just take away all efforts people made in. People are forgetting that everyone below 500CP and there are a lot of people it's still going to take those players a large amount of time to get to the cap seeing as they don't average 1CP a day even.

silky_soft · October 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

At rank 543 I need 1,870,740 xp to 544, if that helps any.

rokrdt05 wrote: »

To earn my 698th champ point, I'll need... 2,377,344 XP.

No, just no. This is wrong and it needs to be changed. This is a fall behind mechanic, not a catchup. You are stealth buffing players who have 1000s already. A cap should of been launched at CP release, imagine if you didn't put a VR cap in.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler This needs to be scaled off the top 2% CP earners. You can no longer use the cap to scale off, you missed that boat. At no point should any CP we earn cost more than what it cost them to earn.

Enodoc · October 2015

I'm very surprised to see that the amount of XP required to get CPs over 450-ish is more than you need to gain a Vet Rank. Remember that the problem with VRs was how long it took to gain one of them? We don't want to see that repeated with CPs, otherwise we'll just end up with the same problem again. As someone else said, we're looking for a catch-up mechanic, not a fall-behind mechanic. This means that it should be making it easier for players to get to, say, 400 CP, by reducing the amount of XP required, not increasing the amount of XP needed once you get over 300 CP and thus making it harder for players who have not done so yet to get more than 300 CP. That's backwards logic.

As @Daveheart put it:

Daveheart wrote: »

[...] each CP should never cost more than the current 400k XP per point.

And since I like the suggested values too, here they are again:

Percentage of cap (cp range for the current cap) -> cost per CP
0-10% (0-50 CP) -> 50k CPXP

10-20% (50-100 CP) -> 75k CPXP

20-30% (100-150 CP) -> 100k CPXP

30-40% (150-200 CP) -> 150k CPXP

40-50% (200-250 CP) -> 200k CPXP

50-60% (250-300 CP) -> 250k CPXP

60-70% (300-350 CP) -> 300k CPXP

70-80% (350-400 CP) -> 350k CPXP

80%+ (400+ CP) -> 400k CPXP

algrife · October 2015

a catch up mechanic and a cap there should be only one having 2 of them is kinda disappointing to see a game i liked die out for me cause i didn't grind and i play on PS4 and already have 400CP and by the time the update is up ill probably be more than the cap then i have nothing more to do till the update after that so I'm forced to take a break from the game thus not playing the new dlc just cause i won't see any progress in my character so if possible raise the cap to make room for growth so once the dlc is out we have room to get more cp and get stronger,without progress there is no point in playing the new dlc story more than once on all characters

Lucky28 · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is a good example of people wanting what they can't have.

We all agreed for months how we dislike the champion system so zos came up with a way to make it not useful by putting a cap on it, which is great and good idea to switch around for certain content. And people are upset because they need x amount of xp for their next champion point they can't use? I dont get it can't you see they are listening and getting rid of the system pretty much?

Most people i've spoken with wanted a better catch up mechanic not a cap and harsh grind.

And this is why grinders get something out of it while the others still need to catch up. ZOS can't just take away all efforts people made in. People are forgetting that everyone below 500CP and there are a lot of people it's still going to take those players a large amount of time to get to the cap seeing as they don't average 1CP a day even.

I am below the cap. Never grinded, hate grinding and am now forced to grind rather than go organically as i prefer. yeah, great thanks.

MightyMalloy · October 2015

algrife wrote: »

a catch up mechanic and a cap there should be only one having 2 of them is kinda disappointing to see a game i liked die out for me cause i didn't grind and i play on PS4 and already have 400CP and by the time the update is up ill probably be more than the cap then i have nothing more to do till the update after that so I'm forced to take a break from the game thus not playing the new dlc just cause i won't see any progress in my character so if possible raise the cap to make room for growth so once the dlc is out we have room to get more cp and get stronger,without progress there is no point in playing the new dlc story more than once on all characters

I would have to agree, as a ps4 player myself who has been playing since the start of the games release on Ps4, I've earned 367 champion points because I play daily and I think the cap will be the death of this game because all the people who have over 501 champion points will just leave because they basically just wasted hundreds of hours playing the game, I'm also pretty sure us ps4 players who will either have the 501 cap or nearly have the cap on release will complete the content then just put the game to one side because we've completed all content and either hit the cap or are only a few champion points of it.

Finally I think the cap is a terrible idea, but the increased Experience people get below 501 is a good idea. So why not remove the cap and just add the increased experience for people below 500 and let the people with more keep going because if you don't the consumer base will just fall, the PC crossovers with 500+ CP will leave and the PS4 players at the cap or a little under will also move on because they've completed all content.

Thanks,
-Mighty

logsplitter69b14_ESO · October 2015

I am pretty disappointed with the cap. I have 546 CP. It feels to me like the 10% xp bonus I paid for is going to be taken away from me, plus those xp scrolls I bought... and all that perfect roe I fished up. I logged into PTS to see the next point (I cant use) will be awarded to me at something like 1.8 mil xp. Ya im not interested in that.

Who on earth would put a system like this in place and not cap it from the start? I mean if you didn't intend for folks to grind so many points... ah never mind. Why all this silliness with a catch up mechanic... lets just hang lead weights around the necks of the faster swimmers eh?

OK so I logged into PTS, went to Wrothgar. It looks like a snow covered Craglorn with six legged dear. Couldn't get over the fact.. all that xp I'll make in it will be pretty much wasted. Why bother now, I can just wait until you raise the cap and then maybe I wont be penalized for questing there. No need to continue sub or pay for DLC.

CtrlAltDlt · October 2015

Wow console players with 400+ already? Get a life

MrGrimey · October 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Also the cap have taken away any reason to spend money on a subscription.

How? I don't get why people keeps saying this? Did you need a sub to grind zombies or goblins?

If anything now there is more of a reason to sub, we get aDLC every quarter... You know? Real content, not mindless grinding

CtrlAltDlt · October 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Also the cap have taken away any reason to spend money on a subscription.

How? I don't get why people keeps saying this? Did you need a sub to grind zombies or goblins?

If anything now there is more of a reason to sub, we get aDLC every quarter... You know? Real content, not mindless grinding

Its no point arguing with them about it. You sub so you can grind zombies, dafuk is that.

Lucky28 · October 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Also the cap have taken away any reason to spend money on a subscription.

How? I don't get why people keeps saying this? Did you need a sub to grind zombies or goblins?

If anything now there is more of a reason to sub, we get aDLC every quarter... You know? Real content, not mindless grinding

Most people who have subbed for a while have enough crowns to buy all those DLC. it's the XP boost and consumables they no longer have any real need for. so yeah, there is less a reason for most long time subscribers to cancel their subscription.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · October 2015

SUGGESTION: Why don't you just recalculate people's champion points to be based on the new scale and then be done with the cap?

That way low cp people will see an increase in cps and high cp people will see a low to severe drop, all gravitating towards the same points.

Problem is you take away the motivation for many players to sub or even buy the new content when cps are capped. With this you remove the extremes while keeping freedom and a reason to keep ESOplus running.

mlstevens42_ESO · October 2015

Not so worried about the cap itself. It is after all a soft cap in many ways sure you can not invest the points but you can still earn them under the new rules. They cost more to get but you still can earn them.

I do not see the need to increase the cost of cp's before one reaches the cap however. Why would I need an increase to exp needed when I am not even at the cap yet. Save capping me for when I get there......I don't care if you just leave the exp needed to get cp's alone for those above a certain amount say 300.....and other then enlightment get no buff to speed up progress. Would need the normal 400k. For some reason I am already getting hit with increased cost of exp to get cp and I haven't even reached 400 cp let alone the 501 that is the cap.

This does not make me want to continue to play just putting this out there. In fact it is not a motivation at all. Sure I get it you want now after all this time to stop people from getting way ahead of everyone else. I understand but I am not at this new line in the sand yet no need to make it more difficult. Not only is this move not making it easier for me to catch up it is in fact slowing my progress to the cap down. Just pointing this out.

Quit trying to make this game a grind fest. This does not make it more fun. It makes it frustrating. I am not a donkey pulling a cart and refuse to go after the dangling carrot that can never be obtained. I can find other things to do.

jay-bobrwb17_ESO · October 2015

I'm wondering why the cap will apply outside of PVP, it seems like the surgeon is using a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel.

Enodoc · October 2015

I'm putting this here for myself to use later, and I'm hoping it does what I think it will do, but if anyone feels like investigating before I get around to it, feel free.

/script d(GetChampionXPInRank(GetPlayerChampionPointsEarned()))

/script for i=1,600 do d(i .. GetChampionXPInRank(i)) end

Glantir · October 2015

For the catch up System they should combine less exp need with better enlightment bonus e.g.

0-100 CP 50k Exp need and enlighted for 5 CP per day
101-200 CP 100k Exp, enlighted for 4 CP
201-300 CP 200k Exp, enlighted for 3 CP
301-400 CP 300k Exp, enlighted for 2 CP
401-500 CP 400k Exp, enlighted for 1 CP
501-600 CP 500k Exp, nor more enlight bonus
601-700 CP 600k Exp and and and

meistermeuchler1b16_ESO · October 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm very surprised to see that the amount of XP required to get CPs over 450-ish is more than you need to gain a Vet Rank. Remember that the problem with VRs was how long it took to gain one of them? We don't want to see that repeated with CPs, otherwise we'll just end up with the same problem again. As someone else said, we're looking for a catch-up mechanic, not a fall-behind mechanic. This means that it should be making it easier for players to get to, say, 400 CP, by reducing the amount of XP required, not increasing the amount of XP needed once you get over 300 CP and thus making it harder for players who have not done so yet to get more than 300 CP. That's backwards logic.

As @Daveheart put it:

Daveheart wrote: »

[...] each CP should never cost more than the current 400k XP per point.

And since I like the suggested values too, here they are again:

Percentage of cap (cp range for the current cap) -> cost per CP
0-10% (0-50 CP) -> 50k CPXP

10-20% (50-100 CP) -> 75k CPXP

20-30% (100-150 CP) -> 100k CPXP

30-40% (150-200 CP) -> 150k CPXP

40-50% (200-250 CP) -> 200k CPXP

50-60% (250-300 CP) -> 250k CPXP

60-70% (300-350 CP) -> 300k CPXP

70-80% (350-400 CP) -> 350k CPXP

80%+ (400+ CP) -> 400k CPXP

even that is to much. zenimax wrote the average player has 90 cp. so they don´t even use the 1 enlighted level a day. but lets assume they use it and make 400k enlighted exp a day.

[*] 0-10% (0-50 CP) -> 50k CPXP

>8 level a day ~6 days to get 0-50
[*] 10-20% (50-100 CP) -> 75k CPXP

> 5,3 level a day ~9 days to get 50-100
[*] 20-30% (100-150 CP) -> 100k CPXP

> 4 levels a day ~12 days to get 100-150
[*] 30-40% (150-200 CP) -> 150k CPXP

> 2,6 level a day ~ 18 days to get 150-200
[*] 40-50% (200-250 CP) -> 200k CPXP

> 2 levels aday ~ 25 days to get 200-250
[*] 50-60% (250-300 CP) -> 250k CPXP

> 1,6 level a day~31 days to get 250-300
if we are adding up the time needed to get a little more then half of the champions point cap we are talking about 100 days or more then 3 months.
lets see how much time we need for the whole 500 points.
[*] 60-70% (300-350 CP) -> 300k CPXP

>1,3 points a day ~38 days to get 300-350
[*] 70-80% (350-400 CP) -> 350k CPXP

>1,15 points a day ~43 days to get 350-400
[*] 80%+ (400+ CP) -> 400k CPXP

> 1 point a day~ 100 days to get 400-500

so an additional 180 days or 6 month for a casual gamer. and the catch up system currently in place is even worse.
i accepts that not everybody should sit on top of the cp cap. but i assume they want to raise the cap every 3 month with the new content. if we take a person that has 90 cp today even with your numbers he would sit at ~320 cp points and a new cap will be intrudeced.

Ishammael · October 2015

Everyone, please see other thread. Reposted:

Here is the current data:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SXo8O6ro7AaIilYg11rZzH4DP7kQaYE6Qy5vB9XlO5g/edit?usp=sharing

I am guessing there is an inflection point at 501 CPs. If I segregate data points below and perform a linear fit I get:

y = 1088 x + 31630

where y is the total experience required to get x champion point.

To calculate the total amount of XP required for 501 now, integrate:

y_tot = 644 x^2 + 31630 x

and evaluate from 1 to 501:

y_tot = 177459000

which compares to 501 CPs at 400k/ea: 200000000

Thus it takes less total XP to get to 501 by about 11.27%

The problem is the following -- if you are currently sitting at 338 CPs, your next one costs more than 400k. Thus you are burned by this scaling, requiring more effort to get to 501 because your total XP (338 * 400k = 135200000) should put you at <solve quadratic eqn> 434 CPs!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler Y'all need to re-calculate everyone's CP based on total experience. Otherwise players in the mid-300s are gonna get burned by this switch!

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Random question...
Wouldn't it be simple to apply enlighten buff at higher rates to last longer as a catch up mechanism and change nothing else.

I'm not sure why ppl with more champion points would need more exp.
the exp required should never change for each champion pt
What should happen are enlightenment buffs that give up to 300% increased exp and lower the exp buff every 100 or 50 levels

Tome that's a catch up and with a max cp cap this is all that was needed.

What exists further complicates the system, penalizes the wrong group and prolongs the problem created by cp variances.

Also don't mess with what cp points offer.

Lazyness · October 2015

Tbh, I can't really see the need of the cp cap for pve.
Why punish people who've either played this game a lot or just grinded their way up to a lot of CP.
Those people play your game everyday, investing a huge amount of time and most probably have been playing this game since release.

Loads of people are above cap by just playing this game (I don't have to do the calculation again, people did that before in this tread)

On the other hand, a cap for pvp seems fairly reasonable. Different campaigns with different allowed cp amounts.
Campaign A = < 100 cps
Campaign B = 100 - 300 cps
Campaign C = 300 - 600 cps
Campaing D = 600+ cps

Why no cap for pve?

Fairly easy.. Most of the people I team up with (or guildies or whatever) are close to or even higher than your planned cap of 501 cp. So what will be their goal in this game?
2 new dungeons? Trials that we're playing for over a year already? A solo arena (the one who came up with this idea should be hanged btw imo. Im playing an mmo. If anybody wants to solo things I suggest you go and play witcher, skyrim or anything similar to that) or 20 hours of new storyline and quests (Yuppi). Even for a casual player that's done in a week (or maybe 2).
O, I forgot, or daily quests..

Besides that, why can't players who invest more time be stronger than someone who's playing once or twice a week? They will never catch up anyway.

Instead of punishing the people who are playing your game on a daily bases, I suggest you go and have a second thought about this damn issue. Cause besides the facts I mentioned, it's in no way going to fix your game

Fetaro · October 2015

I don't think the CXP needed to get to 501 CP should be > 400k.
My preference :
- 1st CP = 50k.
- 2nd CP = 50.6k
- 10th CP = 56.29K
- 100th CP = 119.16k
- etc...

My formula : 50 + (0.6986*([Xth CP]-1)).
For instance, CP 100 => 50+(0.6986*(100-1)).

How I came to 0.6986 : 350/501 (350 => 400k CXP to get 501st CP minus the 50k CXP of the first CP)

What do you think ?

Lifecode666 · October 2015

All i can say is that i left the game 1 week after championpoints was introduced(played since beta)
When imperial city was launched i came back and I am so behind on CP that it is almost gamebreaking.
I am constantly out of stamina cause of low points in mooncalf and warlord(think it was called that.)
same with damage and spellresistance etc...

A cap and a catch up system is the best idea ever.

look at this guy 901 cp points.

A good nightblade,with good gear and so many points is just sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKOfEPtpZZ8

At the end i want to say i respect Decimus pvp video and he has worked very hard for this so...

Enodoc · October 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Random question...
Wouldn't it be simple to apply enlighten buff at higher rates to last longer as a catch up mechanism and change nothing else.

I'm not sure why ppl with more champion points would need more exp.
the exp required should never change for each champion pt
What should happen are enlightenment buffs that give up to 300% increased exp and lower the exp buff every 100 or 50 levels

Tome that's a catch up and with a max cp cap this is all that was needed.

What exists further complicates the system, penalizes the wrong group and prolongs the problem created by cp variances.

Also don't mess with what cp points offer.

This is a good suggestion too, and what I initially thought they would do; change the enlightenment bonus depending on how many CPs you have.

0 - 60 CP: 16x
60 - 150 CP: 12x
150 - 270 CP: 8x
270 - 390 CP: 6x
390 - 540 CP: 4x
540+ CP: 1x

This is based on a cap of 540, since 540 is a nicer number to divide by

AlnilamE · October 2015

Glantir wrote: »

For the catch up System they should combine less exp need with better enlightment bonus e.g.

0-100 CP 50k Exp need and enlighted for 5 CP per day
101-200 CP 100k Exp, enlighted for 4 CP
201-300 CP 200k Exp, enlighted for 3 CP
301-400 CP 300k Exp, enlighted for 2 CP
401-500 CP 400k Exp, enlighted for 1 CP
501-600 CP 500k Exp, nor more enlight bonus
601-700 CP 600k Exp and and and

As long as enlightenment is for 100XP/day, it would work almost like that. If the requirement for CP is 50K at low levels, you would pretty much get 8CP by the time you are done with your enlightenment.

Though I disagree with CP costing more than 400k at any level.