To those who think dark cloak needs a nerf.

nordickittyhawk

So i saw a comment by @ZOS_GinaBruno that they are looking into nerfing dark cloak. now i see so many posts and comments saying it needs to be nerfed... so what im going to do is give you every iteam and skill in the game to counter it.

Dragon Knight:

Dragon knight standered (Both morphs)
Fiery Breath (Both morphs/ conal aoe)
Inferno (both morphs/ Has taken me out of cloak many times)
Dark talons (both morphs/Aoe/CC)
Inhale (both morphs/Aoe)
Ash Cloud (both morphs/Aoe)

Templar
Radial Sweep (both morphs/Aoe)
Puncturning sweep (both morphs/ Conal Aoe)
Spear Shards (both morphs/Aoe/stun)
Nova (both morphs/Aoe)

Sorcs
Neagate (both morphs/Aoe)
Encase (both morphs/conal/CC)
Dedric mines (both morphs/Aoe)
Summon storm atronach (both morphs/Aoe/stun)
Dedric Curse (once explodeing it brings them from stealth)
Overload (both morphs/Heavy attack conal)
Lightning form (both morphs/Aoe on your self!)
Lightning Splash (both morphs/Aoe)
Bolt escape -.- (you damage anything u teleport to/stun/pain in the ass)

Nightblade:
Pierce mark (Marks the target making it "IMPOSSIBLE TO GO STEALTH" and cloak)
Consuming Darkness (both morphs/Aoe)
Path of darkness (both morphs/ Conal Aoe)
Aspect of terror (both morphs/ One morth is self Aoe and a fear/ Other morph is a trap which causes fear)
soul shred (one morph/soul tether)
Drain Power (both morphs/Aoe)

Dual weirld
Whirlwind (both morphs/Aoe)
Blade cloak (both morphs/Aoe)

Bow
Volly (both morphs/Aoe)
arrow spray (both/aoe/ one morph is a CC)

Destro staff
Wall of ele (both morphs/Conal Aoe)
Impulse (both morphs/Aoe)

Fighters Guild:
Dawn breaker (both morphs/Aoe)
Trap beast (both morphs/Aoe)

Mage guild
Mage light (One morph increase detection radios and you take ..% less dmg from stealth)
Fire rune (both morphs/Aoe)

Undaunted
Necrotic orb (both morphs/Aoe)

Vampire
Bat swarm (both morphs/Aoe)
poison mist (self aoe)

Werewolf
pounce (both morphs/Aoe and Stun)

Alliance War Assault
Caltrops (both morphs/LARGE AOE/snare)
Magic detonation (both morphs/Aoe)

Alliance War Support
Revaling Flare (both morphs/OH THIS IS WHERE IT GETS GOOD!!!!. *clears throat* " Launch flare to expose from stealth in target area. they are no longer able to stealth OR cloak for 8 seconds)

Items
Detection Pot. Shows stealthed and cloaked players 20 meters from your self for 13.1 seconds.



All these skills and counters to stop cloak and yet people complain its unbalanced and unfair. let me remind you all unless your a nightblade... we have one escape. We have high dmg and movement but no defence or giant heal. We cant sheild stack. we can only hide n run. If you cant find me well thats your own fault for not taking your time to place one counter on your bar or potion slot.

nordickittyhawk

ALSO to add sweepers and horrors in IC make it impossible to cloak if agroed on a NB

UltimaJoe777

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Also in case the point of "Dark Cloak" and not Shadow Cloak and Shadowy Disguise is the fact Dark Cloak removes a negative effect on top of granting invisibility then the invisibility itself is not the case.

nordickittyhawk

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

CP5

And in order to get back into cloak all you need to do is move a bit (for a majority of those one dodge roll will do) and maybe purge (piercing mark) and whoever is chasing is back to square 1 once you hit cloak again. Also you list pounce as a counter, but that is a gap closer and if zos fixed those then no gap closer will break cloak now.

UltimaJoe777

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

nordickittyhawk

CP5 wrote: »

And in order to get back into cloak all you need to do is move a bit (for a majority of those one dodge roll will do) and maybe purge (piercing mark) and whoever is chasing is back to square 1 once you hit cloak again. Also you list pounce as a counter, but that is a gap closer and if zos fixed those then no gap closer will break cloak now.

What is there to nerf thou xD ... it has many counters?! so why would u nerf it and make it useless? xD
sorcs are still power housers and the second they get one single counter they cry cry cry cry (#shieldbreakerbestset2015)

BuggeX

Now rewrite you list and just add this skills which actually are usefull in pvp and being used.
beside the bugged beasttrap

nordickittyhawk

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

Kammakazi

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

So i saw a comment by @ZOS_GinaBruno that they are looking into nerfing dark cloak. now i see so many posts and comments saying it needs to be nerfed... so what im going to do is give you every iteam and skill in the game to counter it.

Sorcs
Neagate (both morphs/Aoe)
Encase (both morphs/conal/CC)
Dedric mines (both morphs/Aoe)
Summon storm atronach (both morphs/Aoe/stun)
Dedric Curse (once explodeing it brings them from stealth)
Overload (both morphs/Heavy attack conal)
Lightning form (both morphs/Aoe on your self!)
Lightning Splash (both morphs/Aoe)
Bolt escape -.- (you damage anything u teleport to/stun/pain in the ass)

What you listed does in fact reveal them but it is not practical.

Negate - You'd waste a 192 Ultimate for one person?
Encase - Barely viable, Nightblades use a lot of terrain to dodge stuff when they cloak away & Encase needs you and the enemy to be on the same ground level.
Daedric Mines - Has an activation delay and is pretty pointless to use if you're chasing.
Summon Storm Atronach - These guys don't attack an already invisible Nightblade, also again, 170 Ultimate that is a one-time reveal when the player can just cloak again?
Daedric Curse - They counter this with line of sight. If you don't cast another curse as soon as it explodes, you've already lost him.
Overload - Okay who the hell would even try to use this to reveal hidden enemies?
Lightning Form - The ticks of damage are spread out and all Nightblades are pretty much faster than you in stealth because of that ability. I don't even think the ticks of damage even reveal hidden enemies.
Lightning Splash - Just don't. stupid.
Bolt Escape - Barely viable. After 3-4 you're out of magicka.

nordickittyhawk

Kammakazi wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

So i saw a comment by @ZOS_GinaBruno that they are looking into nerfing dark cloak. now i see so many posts and comments saying it needs to be nerfed... so what im going to do is give you every iteam and skill in the game to counter it.

Sorcs
Neagate (both morphs/Aoe)
Encase (both morphs/conal/CC)
Dedric mines (both morphs/Aoe)
Summon storm atronach (both morphs/Aoe/stun)
Dedric Curse (once explodeing it brings them from stealth)
Overload (both morphs/Heavy attack conal)
Lightning form (both morphs/Aoe on your self!)
Lightning Splash (both morphs/Aoe)
Bolt escape -.- (you damage anything u teleport to/stun/pain in the ass)

What you listed does in fact reveal them but it is not practical.

Negate - You'd waste a 192 Ultimate for one person?
Encase - Barely viable, Nightblades use a lot of terrain to dodge stuff when they cloak away & Encase needs you and the enemy to be on the same ground level.
Daedric Mines - Has an activation delay and is pretty pointless to use if you're chasing.
Summon Storm Atronach - These guys don't attack an already invisible Nightblade, also again, 170 Ultimate that is a one-time reveal when the player can just cloak again?
Daedric Curse - They counter this with line of sight. If you don't cast another curse as soon as it explodes, you've already lost him.
Overload - Okay who the hell would even try to use this to reveal hidden enemies?
Lightning Form - The ticks of damage are spread out and all Nightblades are pretty much faster than you in stealth because of that ability. I don't even think the ticks of damage even reveal hidden enemies.
Lightning Splash - Just don't. stupid.
Bolt Escape - Barely viable. After 3-4 you're out of magicka.

These are skills to bring them out of stealth never said you your self used them. the atro once landed is a AOE stun.
and you would be suprised by how many people used overload heavy attack to do that

Joy_Division

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

You call people silly and then count DK standard as a counter for cloak?

nordickittyhawk

Joy_Division wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

You call people silly and then count DK standard as a counter for cloak?

i counted EVERY skill for revaling people out of cloak. not that people use it

BuggeX

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Dragon knight standered (Both morphs)
Fiery Breath (Both morphs/ conal aoe)
Inferno (both morphs/ Has taken me out of cloak many times)
Dark talons (both morphs/Aoe/CC)
Inhale (both morphs/Aoe)
Ash Cloud (both morphs/Aoe)

Whoever use Standard to kick a NB out of stealth is just, well, retarted.
Fiery Breath never saw this skill be used in pvp, just a wasted of a Slot
Inferno infact is bugged and is able to attack stealth enemis
Talons, has a range of 6m. I rarly manage to grap a NB with this.
Inhale Needs to be "charged" before the NB use cloak, if no Target is near(or cloaked), it doesnt do nothing
Ash Clouds, actually work if you Combine it with invasion

nordickittyhawk

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

Dragon knight standered (Both morphs)
Fiery Breath (Both morphs/ conal aoe)
Inferno (both morphs/ Has taken me out of cloak many times)
Dark talons (both morphs/Aoe/CC)
Inhale (both morphs/Aoe)
Ash Cloud (both morphs/Aoe)

Whoever use Standard to kick a NB out of stealth is just, well, retarted.
Fiery Breath never saw this skill be used in pvp, just a wasted of a Slot
Inferno infact is bugged and is able to attack stealth enemis
Talons, has a range of 6m. I rarly manage to grap a NB with this.
Inhale Needs to be "charged" before the NB use cloak, if no Target is near(or cloaked), it doesnt do nothing
Ash Clouds, actually work if you Combine it with invasion

See! you dont have to use those skills and you gave reason why!. Thats what i would like to hear. ash cload then a charge plus i would be snared so even harded to escape Just trying make point one skill with combo with another can always work and you just shown it!

Emma_Overload

Here's the problem with the bogus "counter" defense of Cloak... while the Nightblade's victim is busy "countering" Cloak, the Nightblade is busy KILLING his sorry ass in between Cloaks.

nordickittyhawk

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Here's the problem with the bogus "counter" defense of Cloak... while the Nightblade's victim is busy "countering" Cloak, the Nightblade is busy KILLING his sorry ass in between Cloaks.

Nighty blades use cloak for two things an escape or a way to counter a attack from the target if you dont have any sort of defence for this then yes you will die and thats not cloaks fault that is your own for not using a defence tool that zenimax has given to every class

UltimaJoe777

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

DoT is what I was mostly thinking of since the only potential skill that could ruin the cloak if it cannot be removed by using Dark Cloak is Piercing Mark which means NB vs NB which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this thread?

nordickittyhawk

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

DoT is what I was mostly thinking of since the only potential skill that could ruin the cloak if it cannot be removed by using Dark Cloak is Piercing Mark which means NB vs NB which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this thread?

well if i have 3 dots on me that allows the target to get few more hits on me or even stun me and CC me. if you dont take the chance then yes i will escape but tell me.. what is a NB suppost to use to escape?

TequilaFire

The tears never cease.
Looks at death report:

Overload
velocious curse
crystal frags
crystal frags
crystal frags

ahem...

BuggeX

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

willymchilybily

I dont think this thread is beneficial to the cause. That said i dont believe it needs to happen. Though haven't played much PVP in 2.1 admittedly. I presume this is because a magicka NB can cloak, come out of combat and get good regen, and go again wearing the enemy down? if not why does it even matter?

If it is No magicka regen when stealthed, that makes it very horrible for stealth players (not just NB) who like to buff up from stealth before launching their first attack, particularly stamina uses with small magicka pools that use magicka to buff themselves. It's going to be another detrimental change that affects many players instead of those who ZOS believes need a tweak.

if its only during the 2.5 seconds cloak invisibility lasts, that is fine. At most that it is 2 ticks of regen if you are unlucky. but surely if this is a loop hole, there are better ways to introduce a mechanic that level this out than a blanket wide mechanic that could have unforeseen detrimental effects to other classes/setups too.

Asmael

Ok. How many of those are good against a skilled NB?

I count 5 at most.

Steelnado, caltrops, detect pots, volley and piercing mark get my approval.

How many of these, combo'd or not, can counter a good shadow image -> cloak?

Piercing mark, detect pots and Steelnado if the NB's still in range.

I have no issue with offensive cloak, that makes for a good fight, but unless you use any of the things mentioned above, there's absolutely no way to kill a NB willing to escape.

I don't care if they nerf cloak or not, since most NBs I see fail at this.

nordickittyhawk

willymchilybily wrote: »

I dont think this thread is beneficial to the cause. That said i dont believe it needs to happen. Though haven't played much PVP in 2.1 admittedly. I presume this is because a magicka NB can cloak, come out of combat and get good regen, and go again wearing the enemy down? if not why does it even matter?

If it is No magicka regen when stealthed, that makes it very horrible for stealth players (not just NB) who like to buff up from stealth before launching their first attack, particularly stamina uses with small magicka pools that use magicka to buff themselves. It's going to be another detrimental change that affects many players instead of those who ZOS believes need a tweak.

if its only during the 2.5 seconds cloak invisibility lasts, that is fine. At most that it is 2 ticks of regen if you are unlucky. but surely if this is a loop hole, there are better ways to introduce a mechanic that level this out than a blanket wide mechanic that could have unforeseen detrimental effects to other classes/setups too.

if they do nerf it think of stam blade. can only cloak 3 to 4 times. id like to add that cloak is really buggy somtimes i can never sneak to hide n regen or it just keeps taking me out of cloak all the time for no reason and its been like that since launch

BuggeX

willymchilybily wrote: »

I dont think this thread is beneficial to the cause. That said i dont believe it needs to happen. Though haven't played much PVP in 2.1 admittedly. I presume this is because a magicka NB can cloak, come out of combat and get good regen, and go again wearing the enemy down? if not why does it even matter?

If it is No magicka regen when stealthed, that makes it very horrible for stealth players (not just NB) who like to buff up from stealth before launching their first attack, particularly stamina uses with small magicka pools that use magicka to buff themselves. It's going to be another detrimental change that affects many players instead of those who ZOS believes need a tweak.

if its only during the 2.5 seconds cloak invisibility lasts, that is fine. At most that it is 2 ticks of regen if you are unlucky. but surely if this is a loop hole, there are better ways to introduce a mechanic that level this out than a blanket wide mechanic that could have unforeseen detrimental effects to other classes/setups too.

There are two types:

invisible - cloak and invis pots
Sneak - out of combat sneak

so even if they set mag reg to 0 while invis, it does not affect sneaking

nordickittyhawk

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

nordickittyhawk

BuggeX wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

I dont think this thread is beneficial to the cause. That said i dont believe it needs to happen. Though haven't played much PVP in 2.1 admittedly. I presume this is because a magicka NB can cloak, come out of combat and get good regen, and go again wearing the enemy down? if not why does it even matter?

If it is No magicka regen when stealthed, that makes it very horrible for stealth players (not just NB) who like to buff up from stealth before launching their first attack, particularly stamina uses with small magicka pools that use magicka to buff themselves. It's going to be another detrimental change that affects many players instead of those who ZOS believes need a tweak.

if its only during the 2.5 seconds cloak invisibility lasts, that is fine. At most that it is 2 ticks of regen if you are unlucky. but surely if this is a loop hole, there are better ways to introduce a mechanic that level this out than a blanket wide mechanic that could have unforeseen detrimental effects to other classes/setups too.

There are two types:

invisible - cloak and invis pots
Sneak - out of combat sneak

so even if they set mag reg to 0 while invis, it does not affect sneaking

it doesn how ever affect stamina nightblades

BuggeX

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

are you sure you never saw it? Most common use: NB set Shadow in a dark angle before engage.
NB has 15sec time to kill a enemy.
If attack Fails he cloak and instant port to the shadow and the enemy will never know where he is

nordickittyhawk

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

are you sure you never saw it? Most common use: NB set Shadow in a dark angle before engage.
NB has 15sec time to kill a enemy.
If attack Fails he cloak and instant port to the shadow and the enemy will never know where he is

no i run with 4 other nightblades and iv just asked 2 of them in ts have they heard that combo... nope never. we never thought it would be useful. the bow spectre would actually take them out of cloak if it attacked a target oddly

UltimaJoe777

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

DoT is what I was mostly thinking of since the only potential skill that could ruin the cloak if it cannot be removed by using Dark Cloak is Piercing Mark which means NB vs NB which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this thread?

well if i have 3 dots on me that allows the target to get few more hits on me or even stun me and CC me. if you dont take the chance then yes i will escape but tell me.. what is a NB suppost to use to escape?

You're kidding right? I'm a Nightblade and I can escape easily. Cloak actually aids in escape if used properly but sometimes even it is overpowered by zergs. That should be somewhat fixed now though.

nordickittyhawk

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

DoT is what I was mostly thinking of since the only potential skill that could ruin the cloak if it cannot be removed by using Dark Cloak is Piercing Mark which means NB vs NB which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this thread?

well if i have 3 dots on me that allows the target to get few more hits on me or even stun me and CC me. if you dont take the chance then yes i will escape but tell me.. what is a NB suppost to use to escape?

You're kidding right? I'm a Nightblade and I can escape easily. Cloak actually aids in escape if used properly but sometimes even it is overpowered by zergs. That should be somewhat fixed now though.

please... tell me of your many many escapes that you claim of.