To those who think dark cloak needs a nerf.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

If NB's get a nerf to cloak, it will be karma and their own fault. They have done nothing but cry on the forums to get ZOS to nerf bolt escape (for the nth time) and to nerf shields so that sorcerers could be free AP pinatas for them.

NB's don't like any class they can't kill by pressing a three button combo from stealth before someone can react. It will be nice to see the nerfbat turn in their own hands and hit them for a change. Karma for the forumblades!

But seriously, we also could just stop nerfing everything and get to the root of the problem as to why everyone is screaming for nerfs. I like having classes with powerful abilities. Cloak is fine provided you,

• Give Sorcs streak back so we can use it offensively
• Give DK's green Dragon blood and talons back
• Fix all the templar skills that make zero sense and give them blazing shield back

But nah, lets just nerf everything until every one of our skills has a cooldown on it.

Junglejim82

Honest to god last night a guild mate who hates NBS and would be loved these threads proclaimed mage light as the best skill in pvp ATM . He's a dk . He was getting giddy over it as he smashed poor NBS "these effing NBS ain't s#@+ with mage light on" . If a top 10 player can sacrifice 1 slot successfully I'm sure others can . I wonder how much of these Nerf threads are related to the influx of pvp virgins with no idea of how to counter things. Even when pointed out to them . I realize this is anecdotal but it's Also true

BuggeX

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

are you sure you never saw it? Most common use: NB set Shadow in a dark angle before engage.
NB has 15sec time to kill a enemy.
If attack Fails he cloak and instant port to the shadow and the enemy will never know where he is

no i run with 4 other nightblades and iv just asked 2 of them in ts have they heard that combo... nope never. we never thought it would be useful. the bow spectre would actually take them out of cloak if it attacked a target oddly

They never saw a NB jump of the Keep, killing someone and instant disapears in nowhere?

well then you cant blame a possible nerf when you dont even know wath a single skillcombo is able to do

Molag_Crow

You know what, I'd usually jump on the Bangkorai-Wagon and say yes, nerf it! since so many NB's have escaped from me and ended up causing mayhem, but like you said; it's easily counted if you use the right stuff. I always puncturing-sweep them out, IF I'm quick enough and lucky enough to guess where they've ran off to mili-seconds after they use it.

Still though, it shouldn't be spammable. So uhhhhhh, I don't blame them if they do nerf it.

UltimaJoe777

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

DoT is what I was mostly thinking of since the only potential skill that could ruin the cloak if it cannot be removed by using Dark Cloak is Piercing Mark which means NB vs NB which correct me if I'm wrong is pretty irrelevant to the purpose of this thread?

well if i have 3 dots on me that allows the target to get few more hits on me or even stun me and CC me. if you dont take the chance then yes i will escape but tell me.. what is a NB suppost to use to escape?

You're kidding right? I'm a Nightblade and I can escape easily. Cloak actually aids in escape if used properly but sometimes even it is overpowered by zergs. That should be somewhat fixed now though.

please... tell me of your many many escapes that you claim of.

The trick is in the passives... and the skill to do so. It's not possible to escape from 100% of your encounters but as an escape artist I am able to get away from many threats. In short you don't always need an active skill to escape. And again for Nightblades proper Cloaking can aid you immensely in escaping if all else fails.

CrowsDescend wrote: »

You know what, I'd usually jump on the Bangkorai-Wagon and say yes, nerf it! since so many NB's have escaped from me and ended up causing mayhem, but like you said; it's easily counted if you use the right stuff. I always puncturing-sweep them out, IF I'm quick enough and lucky enough to guess where they've ran off to mili-seconds after they use it.

Still though, it shouldn't be spammable. So uhhhhhh, I don't blame them if they do nerf it.

Actually it isn't spammable unless you have an infinite amount of Magicka since the skill has a relatively high Magicka cost. Personally I think that could lead to a rather limited selection of useful skills but that's just me.

willymchilybily

BuggeX wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

I dont think this thread is beneficial to the cause. That said i dont believe it needs to happen. Though haven't played much PVP in 2.1 admittedly. I presume this is because a magicka NB can cloak, come out of combat and get good regen, and go again wearing the enemy down? if not why does it even matter?

If it is No magicka regen when stealthed, that makes it very horrible for stealth players (not just NB) who like to buff up from stealth before launching their first attack, particularly stamina uses with small magicka pools that use magicka to buff themselves. It's going to be another detrimental change that affects many players instead of those who ZOS believes need a tweak.

if its only during the 2.5 seconds cloak invisibility lasts, that is fine. At most that it is 2 ticks of regen if you are unlucky. but surely if this is a loop hole, there are better ways to introduce a mechanic that level this out than a blanket wide mechanic that could have unforeseen detrimental effects to other classes/setups too.

There are two types:

invisible - cloak and invis pots
Sneak - out of combat sneak

so even if they set mag reg to 0 while invis, it does not affect sneaking

@BuggeX yes that was my point. That is how it should be and i have no issue with. But the actual post i read back along about this was using the term Stealth (IIRC) which is all stealth (sneaking is stealth as you pick pocket from stealth etc) not just invisibility which is cloak/pots

Hopefully im wrong.

CP5

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

4. At rank 1 it removes 1 dot, and at rank 4 it removes 4 dots. Unless they changed that very recently.

nordickittyhawk

CP5 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

4. At rank 1 it removes 1 dot, and at rank 4 it removes 4 dots. Unless they changed that very recently.

my tool tip must be bugged

Xendyn

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If NB's get a nerf to cloak, it will be karma and their own fault. They have done nothing but cry on the forums to get ZOS to nerf bolt escape (for the nth time) and to nerf shields so that sorcerers could be free AP pinatas for them.

NB's don't like any class they can't kill by pressing a three button combo from stealth before someone can react. It will be nice to see the nerfbat turn in their own hands and hit them for a change. Karma for the forumblades!

But seriously, we also could just stop nerfing everything and get to the root of the problem as to why everyone is screaming for nerfs. I like having classes with powerful abilities. Cloak is fine provided you,

• Give Sorcs streak back so we can use it offensively
• Give DK's green Dragon blood and talons back
• Fix all the templar skills that make zero sense and give them blazing shield back

But nah, lets just nerf everything until every one of our skills has a cooldown on it.

Yolokin, You really have to stop bringing logic and common sense in here. Don't you know people have devolved out of those?

TequilaFire

I don't see the issue with the dot removal, any class could use cleanse.

Tankqull

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

are you sure you never saw it? Most common use: NB set Shadow in a dark angle before engage.
NB has 15sec time to kill a enemy.
If attack Fails he cloak and instant port to the shadow and the enemy will never know where he is

no i run with 4 other nightblades and iv just asked 2 of them in ts have they heard that combo... nope never. we never thought it would be useful. the bow spectre would actually take them out of cloak if it attacked a target oddly

thats a clear l2p indicator on your side.
cloak is awesomly strong, if BE needed a nerf so does cloak too.

CP5

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Just leave it be. All this ever does is start a back and forth tug-o-war that serves no purpose whatsoever.

Oh i just want to see how silly people can be when they try to counter 43 skills counter and potion counter.

Refer to my edit lol

Also silly is an understatement. The debates for the skill and its morphs in general are as old as the crusty underpants of a homeless fat guy that has never showered in his life; stale and utterly repulsive.

it is now removes 2 dmg over times. no longer negative effects.

4. At rank 1 it removes 1 dot, and at rank 4 it removes 4 dots. Unless they changed that very recently.

my tool tip must be bugged

Eh, its ESO, what isn't?

Also, @Asmael, how do you use volley to catch nightblades? From personal experience the ability has far too long of a delay between cast and damage for it to be used this way.

ZOS_Julien

Hello there,

Thread move in Combat and Character Mechanics.

vamp_emily

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

And in order to get back into cloak all you need to do is move a bit (for a majority of those one dodge roll will do) and maybe purge (piercing mark) and whoever is chasing is back to square 1 once you hit cloak again. Also you list pounce as a counter, but that is a gap closer and if zos fixed those then no gap closer will break cloak now.

What is there to nerf thou xD ... it has many counters?! so why would u nerf it and make it useless? xD
sorcs are still power housers and the second they get one single counter they cry cry cry cry (#shieldbreakerbestset2015)

Nord,

You must understand, CP5 is upset that sometimes NBs get away from his/hers OP class. That is why the sorc is requesting a nerf.

nordickittyhawk

vamp_emily wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

And in order to get back into cloak all you need to do is move a bit (for a majority of those one dodge roll will do) and maybe purge (piercing mark) and whoever is chasing is back to square 1 once you hit cloak again. Also you list pounce as a counter, but that is a gap closer and if zos fixed those then no gap closer will break cloak now.

What is there to nerf thou xD ... it has many counters?! so why would u nerf it and make it useless? xD
sorcs are still power housers and the second they get one single counter they cry cry cry cry (#shieldbreakerbestset2015)

Nord,

You must understand, CP5 is upset that sometimes NBs get away from his/hers OP class. That is why the sorc is requesting a nerf.

that explains alot

Lettigall

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

You have to understand, not cloak is the Problem, the Problem is the combination from Cloak and shadow Image.
Its imposible to catch a NB with this skills.

iv never seen that combo actually o,o thou i have to say that if they did use that wouldnt you know where they would land? i dunno i just never saw that combo. id never use it mind you.

are you sure you never saw it? Most common use: NB set Shadow in a dark angle before engage.
NB has 15sec time to kill a enemy.
If attack Fails he cloak and instant port to the shadow and the enemy will never know where he is

no i run with 4 other nightblades and iv just asked 2 of them in ts have they heard that combo... nope never. we never thought it would be useful. the bow spectre would actually take them out of cloak if it attacked a target oddly

They never saw a NB jump of the Keep, killing someone and instant disapears in nowhere?

well then you cant blame a possible nerf when you dont even know wath a single skillcombo is able to do

I find this amusing, non NBs know about this combo while apparently so many NBs are clueless... and still they say to us l2p.

M4life

I find it rather entertaining that in every single mmo ive ever played people always find the need to complain about the stealth/invisibility mechanic. As soon as theres something that allows a target to disappear from their view people freak out.

Wow Rogue class is a perfect explain, just look at how much up and down that class has gone through over the years.

Just remember it could be worse Nightblades could have a passive that upon attacking someone from stealth would allow them to remain in stealth hidden for 2-3 seconds while beating on whatever they are attacking.(Wow rogues can do this)

Every class in this game has their niche:
Dks are durable as f**k = battle roar + dragon blood + ferocious leap
Sorcs have their shields and teleport
Templars have their heals
Nightblades have stealth

I say stop worrying about what options another class has that you dont and start worrying about what you can do with your class to counter it. At the core there isnt 1 class better then the others, ive found success on every class against any class.

What i will agree with is within a particular class some builds are better then others. I say find what works for you and enjoy it.

nordickittyhawk

M4life wrote: »

I find it rather entertaining that in every single mmo ive ever played people always find the need to complain about the stealth/invisibility mechanic. As soon as theres something that allows a target to disappear from their view people freak out.

Wow Rogue class is a perfect explain, just look at how much up and down that class has gone through over the years.

Just remember it could be worse Nightblades could have a passive that upon attacking someone from stealth would allow them to remain in stealth hidden for 2-3 seconds while beating on whatever they are attacking.(Wow rogues can do this)

Every class in this game has their niche:
Dks are durable as f**k = battle roar + dragon blood + ferocious leap
Sorcs have their shields and teleport
Templars have their heals
Nightblades have stealth

I say stop worrying about what options another class has that you dont and start worrying about what you can do with your class to counter it. At the core there isnt 1 class better then the others, ive found success on every class against any class.

What i will agree with is within a particular class some builds are better then others. I say find what works for you and enjoy it.

xD iv had that argument with friends saying that "nightblades are rouges stealth class!" Dks are power houses (thou not no more) templars are healing tankish people and sorcs are... well sorcs

Waffennacht

Kammakazi wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

So i saw a comment by @ZOS_GinaBruno that they are looking into nerfing dark cloak. now i see so many posts and comments saying it needs to be nerfed... so what im going to do is give you every iteam and skill in the game to counter it.

Sorcs
Neagate (both morphs/Aoe)
Encase (both morphs/conal/CC)
Dedric mines (both morphs/Aoe)
Summon storm atronach (both morphs/Aoe/stun)
Dedric Curse (once explodeing it brings them from stealth)
Overload (both morphs/Heavy attack conal)
Lightning form (both morphs/Aoe on your self!)
Lightning Splash (both morphs/Aoe)
Bolt escape -.- (you damage anything u teleport to/stun/pain in the ass)

What you listed does in fact reveal them but it is not practical.

Negate - You'd waste a 192 Ultimate for one person?
Encase - Barely viable, Nightblades use a lot of terrain to dodge stuff when they cloak away & Encase needs you and the enemy to be on the same ground level.
Daedric Mines - Has an activation delay and is pretty pointless to use if you're chasing.
Summon Storm Atronach - These guys don't attack an already invisible Nightblade, also again, 170 Ultimate that is a one-time reveal when the player can just cloak again?
Daedric Curse - They counter this with line of sight. If you don't cast another curse as soon as it explodes, you've already lost him.
Overload - Okay who the hell would even try to use this to reveal hidden enemies?
Lightning Form - The ticks of damage are spread out and all Nightblades are pretty much faster than you in stealth because of that ability. I don't even think the ticks of damage even reveal hidden enemies.
Lightning Splash - Just don't. stupid.
Bolt Escape - Barely viable. After 3-4 you're out of magicka.

Absolutely!!!!!

CP5

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

nordickittyhawk wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

And in order to get back into cloak all you need to do is move a bit (for a majority of those one dodge roll will do) and maybe purge (piercing mark) and whoever is chasing is back to square 1 once you hit cloak again. Also you list pounce as a counter, but that is a gap closer and if zos fixed those then no gap closer will break cloak now.

What is there to nerf thou xD ... it has many counters?! so why would u nerf it and make it useless? xD
sorcs are still power housers and the second they get one single counter they cry cry cry cry (#shieldbreakerbestset2015)

Nord,

You must understand, CP5 is upset that sometimes NBs get away from his/hers OP class. That is why the sorc is requesting a nerf.

that explains alot

As wrong as that assumption is, I have two nightblades, and only on one bar between them is cloak missing. It is a great skill and its always fun to go on my nightblade, mark bad nb's who run in straight lines spamming cloak shouting "this is broken" while i'm able to dance around groups just causing them problems.

Arunei

DC was just fixed so that single-target Skills don't knock them out of it (that IS fixed now and isn't still bugged, right?). What could they do to nerf it that wouldn't be overkill? Decrease the invis time, which would make it relatively pointless?

I mean, I guess they could reduce the number of DoTs that it removes, but the problem doesn't lie there methinks. They could reverse the recent fix and just let ALL attacks that happen to catch a Cloked NB knock them out of it, but that seems like a very odd thing to do, at least imo.

Waffennacht

An attack cooldown, like its insane that a nightblade can cc break and go invis in the same breath, and be gone before the next cc can hit.

The problem is that they can remove themselves from combat and re engage at will (if I remember correctly this was the EXACT reason bolt got the nerf)

That sorc move SUCKS. Not only do you give up a slot, you lose magicka ontop of that. The damage reduction obviously was in place before the new PvP health and resource boosts. Now getting one shotted from a stealthed character is not an issue, completely making this toggle obsolete.

I know I want to give up 2 slots and 5% magicka JUST so I can maybe see an enemy NB.

AoEs are a joke for hitting a NB. Even if you DO hit them after the first invisibility, they can just CC break and go in again. You CANNOT consistently use an AoE as a counter. In fact I would say an AoE hits on a stealth maybe 30% of the time.

Detect pots suck too. They only last long enough to counter one stealth move and has a long enough cool down to allow the NB to escape with ease.

Im not saying Nerf it. What I am saying is your counters for Mage's are HORRID and do not make a good excuse. I would also like to point out that every single argument in favor of the cloak etc is the EXACT ARGUMENT used IN FAVOR OF SORCERERS. But guess what? We still got the nerf stick...

mjones433b16_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

DC was just fixed so that single-target Skills don't knock them out of it (that IS fixed now and isn't still bugged, right?). What could they do to nerf it that wouldn't be overkill? Decrease the invis time, which would make it relatively pointless?

I mean, I guess they could reduce the number of DoTs that it removes, but the problem doesn't lie there methinks. They could reverse the recent fix and just let ALL attacks that happen to catch a Cloked NB knock them out of it, but that seems like a very odd thing to do, at least imo.

they will do the same as they did with soc make your magick cost go up the more u use it,at the moment I can run around all day using cloak

Xvorg

mjones433b16_ESO wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

DC was just fixed so that single-target Skills don't knock them out of it (that IS fixed now and isn't still bugged, right?). What could they do to nerf it that wouldn't be overkill? Decrease the invis time, which would make it relatively pointless?

I mean, I guess they could reduce the number of DoTs that it removes, but the problem doesn't lie there methinks. They could reverse the recent fix and just let ALL attacks that happen to catch a Cloked NB knock them out of it, but that seems like a very odd thing to do, at least imo.

they will do the same as they did with soc make your magick cost go up the more u use it,at the moment I can run around all day using cloak

What about stamblades? Open a gate and send the skill to oblivion?

Reeko

M4life wrote: »

I find it rather entertaining that in every single mmo ive ever played people always find the need to complain about the stealth/invisibility mechanic. As soon as theres something that allows a target to disappear from their view people freak out.

Wow Rogue class is a perfect explain, just look at how much up and down that class has gone through over the years.

Just remember it could be worse Nightblades could have a passive that upon attacking someone from stealth would allow them to remain in stealth hidden for 2-3 seconds while beating on whatever they are attacking.(Wow rogues can do this)

Every class in this game has their niche:
Dks are durable as f**k = battle roar + dragon blood + ferocious leap
Sorcs have their shields and teleport
Templars have their heals
Nightblades have stealth

I say stop worrying about what options another class has that you dont and start worrying about what you can do with your class to counter it. At the core there isnt 1 class better then the others, ive found success on every class against any class.

What i will agree with is within a particular class some builds are better then others. I say find what works for you and enjoy it.

This.

As a magicka nightblade, yes, i can "time" my cloak uses (not button spam) to remain "hidden" (not totally invis) indefinitely WITH ENOUGH REGEN but while i'm doing so i'm not dealing damage or helping my team in any way. Plus, i am not able to escape with cloak 100% of the time.

Idk if there is a duff from pc and console users but it seems to me tat Everyone i play against on ps4 know how to counter my cloak making it alot more risky for me to engage more than 1 enemy at a time. I agree that the people who complain about cloak are the same people who refuse to use the many tools available to them to counter it. Ofcourse those counters don't work 100% of the time but that woud be OP. The counters chance of success is higher in the hands of a more skilled player.

And please keep in mind, a NB that escapes is a NB that isn't killing you.

HungryHobo

Reeko wrote: »

And please keep in mind, a NB that escapes is a NB that isn't killing you.

But... but... my effort to almost kill them was wasted!

Waffennacht

They don't "escape" though. They just cloak, regen some resources and then re attack. Exact same tactics that sorcs use to use before the nerf... exact same (insert bad word here"

I find it... unpleasant. If they just ran it would be cool lol.

As for the "counters" I guess im willing to give up a pet... I dont want to just for one of the four classes.

I don't want it nerfed. I do not want all moves to have cool downs.

What I would like is:
Longer Detect pot times.
Mage's move to INCREASE magicka by 5%.
Alliance skills easier to level
Unnerf Temps, Dks and Sorcs

Hmmm or even a PvP armor set that increases detect, Or makes a CC last longer/unbreakable (yes coming up with sets as equally good against NB as against shields with Shieldbreaker)

Reeko

HungryHobo wrote: »

Reeko wrote: »

And please keep in mind, a NB that escapes is a NB that isn't killing you.

But... but... my effort to almost kill them was wasted!

And so was thiers! Lol

HungryHobo

I would be curious out of all those skills, which are able to "Counter" a sorc's streak spam, or a perma dodge roller? All the gap closers obviously. so 4 skill + Negate? For dodge roll, it needed to be tuned down especially with the fixes to skills that did counter it (Whip/radient destruction/etc..).

I play as a stam NB, I do not use cloak as the main way to escape.

Its great for:

1. Healing (Unless the person pops an AoE, then its nullified.
2. Getting out of someone's tab-targeted vision.
3. Moving around a non-bannerboss mob without grabbing agro.
4. Quickly hiding around a close corner

It is not a "I win button" by any means, at least with my experience. If people don't have any AoE's, then it is fairly easy for me to heal. But generally, while I'm doing so, so are they. Its a delaying tactic. It may be different for Magicka NB's... I don't have one of those yet. But I still kill quite a few on my stam NB.

Situational/surrounding awareness is this skill's best friend. Think about where they can hide in 2.9 seconds.. its usually not too hard to anticipate.

Yakidafi

@nordickittyhawk

you forgot teleport strike, use it on someone trying to stealth they can not and will die if keep trying. Done this alot of times in 1.7 aswell!

Cleave and its morphs.

And I do not understand why people want it nerfed, "Is there some way to counter cloak?"