ZOS, it is time to wield the banhammer against those AD exploiters

Lord_Draevan · February 2015

Huntler wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that, so long as we can get people stop to pretending only one side uses them.

I've never agreed with you more

Tripwyr · February 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Ferocious Leap is being fixed to what they intended, the same way Take Flight and the unmorphed Dragon Leap were months ago. To think otherwise is delusional.

It wasn't intended that you could use it to leap up walls, thus it's being made so you can't. Same for Gates, as Brian Wheeler earlier in this thread said you're not supposed to go through when they're closed.

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

The goal here is to get exploits fixed and make as much noise as possible. Hopefully sometime in the near future ZOS will become aware of how these constantly abused exploits affect the PvP community.

Nothing wrong with that, so long as we can get people stop to pretending only one side uses them.

Agree completely.

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

EDIT: #3 is correct with one caveat. The groups we like don't care about any of this, the groups we dislike are so outraged they probably lost hair this weekend. Notice how IR has had zero presence in all this? We like IR.

I have no idea who IR is

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

RedTalon · February 2015

So there are no cheats or exploits just bad things and bad people....

Roechacca · February 2015

RedTalon wrote: »

So there are no cheats or exploits just bad things and bad people....

Yes we already covered this on page two . The PVP dev just confirmed it .

Lord_Draevan · February 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Like I said, ZOS is planning to make it so that you can ony pick up Scroll if the Gates are open, so changing Dragon Leap and its morphs is now unecessary to prevent capping from behind closed Gates.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

I do, but unless it's Vokundein, Martini Knights, Northpoint Knights, DiE, Alacrity or a few others, I don't know many guilds of the top of my head :disagree:

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

If the gate was never opened and players gate hop, tunnel, or use any other means to bypass a closed gate from the assaulting side, that is "bad".

If a group of players open the gate normally, get to the Temple and the gate closes behind them due to the keeps which open the gate being retaken, players can still get the scroll out if they survive the gate guards.

The last solution we have talked about (but not added yet) is putting a requirement on the scrolls that the gates must be open to be picked up. This isn't ideal as players could legitimately get the gates open, fight to the temple and not be able to pick up the scroll if the gate closes behind them. This solution however is getting more traction on internal discussions.

Thank you for the feedback, this is very satisfying and exactly what I though.

I would suggest to make it so after X hours the gates closed, you can't press E anymore to loot the scroll.

Simple, elegant solution. So instead they will make it 3 times as complicated, 10 times as dense, 6 times as exploitable.

I still say a one-way insta kill barrier is the best way. If you come in while the Gates are closed, dead. If you go out, i.e if you sneak in when it's open, you'll be fine.

No, better idea.

Put POW camps in the game.

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Now they'll hopefully stop claiming it's legit.

You are ever the optimist.

I dare to dream

Incoming justification:

"Brian Wheeler only said quote bad unquote. He didn't say it was an exploit. He could have meant bad like we were BAD in an awesome way. It's not our fault ZOS has grey areas."

Well not for nothing but ZOS has a friggin PhD in being as vague as possibly possible.

Wordsmitherating for the lose.

Tripwyr · February 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Like I said, ZOS is planning to make it so that you can ony pick up Scroll if the Gates are open, so changing Dragon Leap and its morphs is now unecessary to prevent capping from behind closed Gates.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

I do, but unless it's Vokundein, Martini Knights, Northpoint Knights, DiE, Alacrity or a few others, I don't know many guilds of the top of my head :disagree:

You just exploded my brain. How can you know who Martini Knights or Northpoint Knights are, but not IR? They're the only guild on EP which is both skilled and respectable.

Suru · February 2015

being bad now, so we cant be bad later
#transparency

Lord_Draevan · February 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Like I said, ZOS is planning to make it so that you can ony pick up Scroll if the Gates are open, so changing Dragon Leap and its morphs is now unecessary to prevent capping from behind closed Gates.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

I do, but unless it's Vokundein, Martini Knights, Northpoint Knights, DiE, Alacrity or a few others, I don't know many guilds of the top of my head :disagree:

You just exploded my brain. How can you know who Martini Knights or Northpoint Knights are, but not IR? They're the only guild on EP which is both skilled and respectable.

I just know their names, not if they're good or not. I usually PvP solo or with random people.

Suru · February 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Like I said, ZOS is planning to make it so that you can ony pick up Scroll if the Gates are open, so changing Dragon Leap and its morphs is now unecessary to prevent capping from behind closed Gates.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

I do, but unless it's Vokundein, Martini Knights, Northpoint Knights, DiE, Alacrity or a few others, I don't know many guilds of the top of my head :disagree:

You just exploded my brain. How can you know who Martini Knights or Northpoint Knights are, but not IR? They're the only guild on EP which is both skilled and respectable.

I just know their names, not if they're good or not. I usually PvP solo or with random people.

its ok young one, you are still innocent

Lord_Draevan · February 2015

Suru wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Yes, but it is important to note that changing Ferocious Leap does not fix this exploit. I've seen that said time and time again, and we need to make sure that neither ZOS nor the player base believes that it will.

Like I said, ZOS is planning to make it so that you can ony pick up Scroll if the Gates are open, so changing Dragon Leap and its morphs is now unecessary to prevent capping from behind closed Gates.

Tripwyr wrote: »

Are you NA? If yes: Do you even play this game?

I do, but unless it's Vokundein, Martini Knights, Northpoint Knights, DiE, Alacrity or a few others, I don't know many guilds of the top of my head :disagree:

You just exploded my brain. How can you know who Martini Knights or Northpoint Knights are, but not IR? They're the only guild on EP which is both skilled and respectable.

I just know their names, not if they're good or not. I usually PvP solo or with random people.

its ok young one, you are still innocent

I would run with guild PvP, but they all require using TS. I work in a call center, spend all day with a headset on, don't feel like spending my time off using it too :disagree:

ZOS_AmeliaR · February 2015

Greetings. We understand the frustration that is caused by this behavior and would like to provide some clarification as to how we are addressing it. Firstly, bypassing a closed gate from the assaulting side is indeed an exploit. As Brian explained in his post, there are acceptable ways to get through an open gate and be on the inside of a keep when it closes, but crossing it while it’s closed is not allowed. We will be taking additional measures with Update 6 to prevent this behavior from continuing, and we will of course continue to monitor the situation to see if further measures are required. Our TOS team has been monitoring abuse of this exploit, but it’s important to point out that it can be difficult to enforce across the board. We would also like to point out that reporting in-game behavior on the forums is not as effective as reporting it in-game. As stated in our Terms of Service:

If you genuinely believe someone has violated our Terms of Service, you should report them in-game via the support interface — do not bring the situation onto the official ESO community forums.

Thank you for understanding and for your patience as we work to address this behavior.

Roechacca · February 2015

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Greetings. We understand the frustration that is caused by this behavior and would like to provide some clarification as to how we are addressing it. Firstly, bypassing a closed gate from the assaulting side is indeed an exploit. As Brian explained in his post, there are acceptable ways to get through an open gate and be on the inside of a keep when it closes, but crossing it while it’s closed is not allowed. We will be taking additional measures with Update 6 to prevent this behavior from continuing, and we will of course continue to monitor the situation to see if further measures are required. Our TOS team has been monitoring abuse of this exploit, but it’s important to point out that it can be difficult to enforce across the board. We would also like to point out that reporting in-game behavior on the forums is not as effective as reporting it in-game. As stated in our Terms of Service:

If you genuinely believe someone has violated our Terms of Service, you should report them in-game via the support interface — do not bring the situation onto the official ESO community forums.

Thank you for understanding and for your patience as we work to address this behavior.

Thank You !!!!

jnjapexb14_ESO · February 2015

So it takes a customer service rep to have the courage to say this is an exploit but the lead PvP guy say it's just "bad"..... Wow.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · February 2015

This also includes Elder Scroll Gates before anyone asks. And yes, "bad" actually did mean bad, not good, or like the song. Although I did like the pictures you all posted...

WraithAzraiel · February 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

This also includes Elder Scroll Gates before anyone asks. And yes, "bad" actually did mean bad, not good, or like the song. Although I did like the pictures you all posted...

Mr. Wheeler - I encourage you, for this evenings PvP event on the PTS, to make a character that looks as much like a young Michael Jackson as possible.

This would be hysterical.

Also, impromptu flash mob.

TheBull · February 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

jaebdub wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

GorraShatan wrote: »

Did AD ever managed to actually secure the scroll? I saw a few attempts at this in Thorn Saturday (when I was playing as AD), but they all failed. If anything it was a waste of effort on AD's part. Not that that makes it right.

They did indeed, they tried 5 times this weekend that I'm aware of, but were intercepted and stoped 4 of them. The 5th and last they secured it at Roebeck.

The point was never to capture the scroll.

Regardless of the point, all it achieved was 1) Dragon Leap getting nerfed and 2) Scrolls will be made un-pickupable when the Gates are closed.
And, I assume the intended goal, 3) Annoy/*** off EP.

Ferocious Leap is being fixed to what they intended, the same way Take Flight and the unmorphed Dragon Leap were months ago. To think otherwise is delusional.

Secondly, we don't use Ferocious Leap, we use Take Flight.

The goal here is to get exploits fixed and make as much noise as possible. Hopefully sometime in the near future ZOS will become aware of how these constantly abused exploits affect the PvP community.

Dark Flare, Purge, Wall of Elements, Ferocious Leap. All exploits which Red abuses on the regular, but nobody talks about it.

EDIT: #3 is correct with one caveat. The groups we like don't care about any of this, the groups we dislike are so outraged they probably lost hair this weekend. Notice how IR has had zero presence in all this? We like IR.

So where's that link you've been talking about for months where Brian Wheeler says gate hopping is not an exploit? Until you produce it or admit that you were not telling the truth, it will be impossible to take anything you have to say seriously.

At this point it looks like you've been lying and been confirmed exploiting. This is a good time to save face. You're words and actions are making your guild look "bad".

Stand up admit you have not been truthful. There is no quote from Wheeler, and that you were wrong. Trust me it will go a long way.

Tripwyr · February 2015

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Greetings. We understand the frustration that is caused by this behavior and would like to provide some clarification as to how we are addressing it. Firstly, bypassing a closed gate from the assaulting side is indeed an exploit. As Brian explained in his post, there are acceptable ways to get through an open gate and be on the inside of a keep when it closes, but crossing it while it’s closed is not allowed. We will be taking additional measures with Update 6 to prevent this behavior from continuing, and we will of course continue to monitor the situation to see if further measures are required. Our TOS team has been monitoring abuse of this exploit, but it’s important to point out that it can be difficult to enforce across the board. We would also like to point out that reporting in-game behavior on the forums is not as effective as reporting it in-game. As stated in our Terms of Service:

If you genuinely believe someone has violated our Terms of Service, you should report them in-game via the support interface — do not bring the situation onto the official ESO community forums.

Thank you for understanding and for your patience as we work to address this behavior.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌, @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Have you considered that since your support team fails to take action against players exploiting and/or damaging the PvP in this game, allowing us to take this information to the forums might help reduce or prevent future exploits?

Your policies combined create the ideal grounds for exploits and those who use them to thrive. Between your failure to discipline reported players, your failure to fix these exploits within a reasonable period of time, and your naming and shaming policy preventing such players from being called out for their actions, it is impossible to prevent this game from becoming a game of who can use the most exploits without getting caught.

Dark Flare has been broken for months, heal debuff stacking has been broken since the release of the game (and still is), and the Purge bug was buried and hidden by your moderators. These exploits are all used on the regular but nobody does anything about it or cares. The PvP in this game is suffering because your policies are flawed.

You need to do one of four things if you want the exploiting problem in this game to go away:

Fix exploits in a timely manner
Discipline players who take advantage of exploits
Allow us to call out exploiters on the forums
Allow us to all use the exploits freely

Other companies fix exploits using hot fixes or maintenance patches within days of their discovery, but we've been reporting this exact issue to you for months and it took outrage on the forums to get it fixed. Is this our route of attack, or will you improve these policies going forward?

Talcyndl · February 2015

Very odd post considering the source.

Cody · February 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

jaebdub wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

jaebdub wrote: »

I have a very easy solution for you about the scrolls. You could defend them. It's not like we have more than 2 or 3 people going for it.

The thing you don't understand is that 75% of EP's zerg is going to chase those 2-3players who captured the scroll, and AD will take 2 keeps in the process. They have mentioned it several times in other threads which got deleted. Their plan is to get those keeps back, it's not even about capturing the scrolls even tho they did manage to bring 2 back in the 8 attempts so far.

I do actually understand that the zerg will chase down the scroll. It is just like any tower, outpost, or scroll farm. The objective is to occupy the opponents army with a trivial task. If your team isn't profiting off of a diversion then it isn't much of a strategy. Actually capture the scroll and all the merrier. Yesterday AD handed DC a scroll to force attention up north while we kept hold of Ash, BRK and below. IMO All is fair in war. The move certainly wasn't for team green.

The counter to these are good scouting, proper communication in zone, teamwork and an understanding when your opponent may attempt to distract. Until (IF) this gets fixed I think you should adopt a new strategy.

What you just explained make perfect sense regarding strategies and diversions. The only point you forgot to talk about is the fact that capturing a scroll without opening the gate first is against the rules. They already worked on a static field to counter it. You guys found a way to get around it. Still against the rules. If it would be allowed, I'm pretty sure that the Staff members would have mentioned it already to the whole community so we can all be clear about it and make it happen on YOUR side aswell.

Actually Brian Wheeler told us that taking a scroll while the gate is closed is not an exploit when we did it months ago.

This is a lie. Stop perpetuating this lie. You have no proof. There are no links. The only place you can find Brian Wheeler anywhere with this topic is from other threads and other forums with you saying the same thing.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ You see how this guy is using your name? Wow...

if he penetrated the gate while it was closed, it IS an exploit. And I suspect that is what is happening, as this seems to be occurring far to much just to be coincidence.

Cody · February 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

If there's one thing this thread makes crystal clear, it's what kind of people are in the guild called 'Alacrity'.

Witness the death of a guild's reputation right here, live on the Alliance War forums!

interesting how just one or two people can ruin the image of a guild isn't it?

Cody · February 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

This also includes Elder Scroll Gates before anyone asks. And yes, "bad" actually did mean bad, not good, or like the song. Although I did like the pictures you all posted...

Glad to see y'all are FINALLY doing your jobs and at least attempting to deal with this huge issue.

I don't mean to sound arrogant and condescending, but this has been going on for far too long and should have been ended months ago.

LonePirate · February 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I have no idea who IR is

IR is the EP guild with all of the players in red shirts (servants' clothes) you see running around. They are impossible to miss if you spend any time on Thornblade NA. Crystalized is the most famous member of this guild. Many of the players in the upper ranks of the leaderboard are IR members as IR has several very good players who are highly skilled at mowing down massive numbers of enemy players.

Talcyndl · February 2015

LonePirate wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

I have no idea who IR is

IR is the EP guild with all of the players in red shirts (servants' clothes) you see running around. They are impossible to miss if you spend any time on Thornblade NA. Crystalized is the most famous member of this guild. Many of the players in the upper ranks of the leaderboard are IR members as IR has several very good players who are highly skilled at mowing down massive numbers of enemy players.

This. Although it doesn't surprise me that a mostly solo and occasional PUG player hasn't heard of them. They don't have open groups and mostly stay out of zone chat.

Armitas · February 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »

Greetings. We understand the frustration that is caused by this behavior and would like to provide some clarification as to how we are addressing it. Firstly, bypassing a closed gate from the assaulting side is indeed an exploit. As Brian explained in his post, there are acceptable ways to get through an open gate and be on the inside of a keep when it closes, but crossing it while it’s closed is not allowed. We will be taking additional measures with Update 6 to prevent this behavior from continuing, and we will of course continue to monitor the situation to see if further measures are required. Our TOS team has been monitoring abuse of this exploit, but it’s important to point out that it can be difficult to enforce across the board. We would also like to point out that reporting in-game behavior on the forums is not as effective as reporting it in-game. As stated in our Terms of Service:

If you genuinely believe someone has violated our Terms of Service, you should report them in-game via the support interface — do not bring the situation onto the official ESO community forums.

Thank you for understanding and for your patience as we work to address this behavior.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌, @ZOS_JoeBlackburn‌, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌

Have you considered that since your support team fails to take action against players exploiting and/or damaging the PvP in this game, allowing us to take this information to the forums might help reduce or prevent future exploits?

Your policies combined create the ideal grounds for exploits and those who use them to thrive. Between your failure to discipline reported players, your failure to fix these exploits within a reasonable period of time, and your naming and shaming policy preventing such players from being called out for their actions, it is impossible to prevent this game from becoming a game of who can use the most exploits without getting caught.

Dark Flare has been broken for months, heal debuff stacking has been broken since the release of the game (and still is), and the Purge bug was buried and hidden by your moderators. These exploits are all used on the regular but nobody does anything about it or cares. The PvP in this game is suffering because your policies are flawed.

You need to do one of four things if you want the exploiting problem in this game to go away:
Fix exploits in a timely manner

Discipline players who take advantage of exploits

Allow us to call out exploiters on the forums

Allow us to all use the exploits freely

Other companies fix exploits using hot fixes or maintenance patches within days of their discovery, but we've been reporting this exact issue to you for months and it took outrage on the forums to get it fixed. Is this our route of attack, or will you improve these policies going forward?

Well said, surprising, but its what I feel about the situation.

Sylvyr · February 2015

Spike traps and fire traps active while the gate is closed that do 400K damage, as well as a server notification that goes out if a player dies to this so everyone gets a laugh. The notification sound should also be customized to the noise a chicken makes when laying en egg.

One way shield would be ideal though but maybe a pain to implement.

Tripwyr · February 2015

Cody wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

If there's one thing this thread makes crystal clear, it's what kind of people are in the guild called 'Alacrity'.

Witness the death of a guild's reputation right here, live on the Alliance War forums!

interesting how just one or two people can ruin the image of a guild isn't it?

I remember those days. Back then we were vehemently opposed to exploiting, but over time we realized that ZOS doesn't fix or punish exploiters, and that everybody except us was doing it.

Lord_Draevan · February 2015

ZOS_AmeliaR wrote:

Greetings. We understand the frustration that is caused by this behavior and would like to provide some clarification as to how we are addressing it. Firstly, bypassing a closed gate from the assaulting side is indeed an exploit. As Brian explained in his post, there are acceptable ways to get through an open gate and be on the inside of a keep when it closes, but crossing it while it’s closed is not allowed. We will be taking additional measures with Update 6 to prevent this behavior from continuing, and we will of course continue to monitor the situation to see if further measures are required. Our TOS team has been monitoring abuse of this exploit, but it’s important to point out that it can be difficult to enforce across the board. We would also like to point out that reporting in-game behavior on the forums is not as effective as reporting it in-game. As stated in our Terms of Service: If you genuinely believe someone has violated our Terms of Service, you should report them in-game via the support interface — do not bring the situation onto the official ESO community forums.

Finally, admitting it's an exploit and not a grey area. The first step is admitting it!

Roechacca · February 2015

So now that there's no more grey area knock off the exploiting . All of you .