Fixing Sorceres in 1.6

Flaminir

I know there will be other changes in update 6 that we don't know about yet... but this ESO live has really shocked me...

"We thought Sorc skills are all pretty good as they are"

"Our main focus is making pets last longer"

I'm trying to stay balanced but I'm furious at this!

And the changes to armor strength is going to make light armor Sorc's even weaker... another nerf.

Off to roll a DK... I love my Sorc, but he's going on the shelf... I don't feel many other options after this.

NordJitsu

Gyudan wrote: »

It's gonna be fun to test on the PTS at least.
I hope that the AoE damage resistance applies properly to the instakill AoE in Sanctum Ophidia (Mantikora stomp, pink orbs, poison) and the fire/poison/frost damage in Dragonstar Arena.
Do pets even get targeted by mana burn again the Serpent?

Did they confirm somewhere that they're getting AoE resistance?

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

NordJitsu wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

It's gonna be fun to test on the PTS at least.
I hope that the AoE damage resistance applies properly to the instakill AoE in Sanctum Ophidia (Mantikora stomp, pink orbs, poison) and the fire/poison/frost damage in Dragonstar Arena.
Do pets even get targeted by mana burn again the Serpent?

Did they confirm somewhere that they're getting AoE resistance?

yes they said in the stream they will take dramatically reduced AoE damage.

Also it was pets were apparently the highest DPS build they made for Sorc in Trials......

Derra

DeLindsay wrote: »

Sorc love in 1.6 = Pets

My heart broke when they had sorcs come up last and then it was about pets. I always play the caster archetype. I don´t want to be a puppetmaster for my pets.
It felt like a punch in the face. I´m sad now.

DeLindsay

Crit Surge will be one morph (and stay as it is now), the 2nd morph will change to include Spell Damage, but no heal.

NordJitsu

Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

It's gonna be fun to test on the PTS at least.
I hope that the AoE damage resistance applies properly to the instakill AoE in Sanctum Ophidia (Mantikora stomp, pink orbs, poison) and the fire/poison/frost damage in Dragonstar Arena.
Do pets even get targeted by mana burn again the Serpent?

Did they confirm somewhere that they're getting AoE resistance?

yes they said in the stream they will take dramatically reduced AoE damage.

Also it was pets were apparently the highest DPS build they made for Sorc in Trials......

Well AoE resistance is really good.

But they just said they're nerfing crit surge. Now you'll have to pick between Crit Surge and the other morph (the one that gives you spell power.)

Bye bye viable magicka sorc.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

davedwildebeast wrote: »

I know there will be other changes in update 6 that we don't know about yet... but this ESO live has really shocked me...

"We thought Sorc skills are all pretty good as they are"

"Our main focus is making pets last longer"

I'm trying to stay balanced but I'm furious at this!

And the changes to armor strength is going to make light armor Sorc's even weaker... another nerf.

Off to roll a DK... I love my Sorc, but he's going on the shelf... I don't feel many other options after this.

This was the worst part of the ESO live. How could they think that sorcs are good as they are???

Rune prison anyone? (aka the Horse troll skill)

Lightning splash (aka the DK tickler)

How about no sustained DPS abilities forcing every sorc to run crushing shock builds.


Of all the dud abilities, they are focusing on Pets? Every pet can get knocked down which makes them useless in PvP.

My atronarc spends more time sleeping on the ground then hitting people in PvP.

ZOS: if you really don't know what is wrong with sorc,read through this post. There are so many sorc abilities that are clunky that need a revamp.

Also some abilities (such as encase and daedric mines) are rediculously expensive for what they do.

Please dont neglect sorcs while you are busy buffing DKs

Derra

Atleast as a caster. You can still command your pets and go afk since pets take two slots the buffs take two slots which leaves you with one active slot. Sounds super exciting.

On the other hand: When are class respecs coming to the cash shop? : ) plz????

NordJitsu

How the hell did they say that like it was a good thing?

The question was whether they would be taking Crit Surge into account with the Spell Power change.

Answer: "Don't worry. We're totally taking it into account!!! We'll be nerfing it into uselessness for over half of Sorcerers!!! Yay!!!"

Shunravi

Well, at least one thing can be said, they are definately sticking to the original class inspiration...http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_(Morrowind)

Flaminir

I was upset by the stuff earlier on in the show about pets...

But at the end I just got angry when they said staffs will scale of spell damage/crit and then said they were changing surge's morphs to either:

A. Give crit heals & increase weapon damage (Same as crit surge now... but useless for staff users when they change those to using spell damage)
B. Increase spell & weapon damage.

So as they also announced elsewhere there will be no sorc self heals... we now have a choice.

1. Get some heals by crit surge but do really cra.p DPS.
2. Do slightly less cra.p DPS but stay alive (Which is also now in doubt because of the increased squishyness they announced for light armor!)

I'm speechless!!!

Yolokin_Swagonborn

davedwildebeast wrote: »

I'm speechless!!!

Gyudan

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

davedwildebeast wrote: »

I'm speechless!!!

The way sorcerer abilities work is nice, the class is just not effective enough compared to the others. In my opinion, it's more about numbers than a complete rework of the skills.
As for utility, don't forget that storm astronach is getting a nice buff with the dmg boost awarded to the player channeling the spell. While I'd like to see a real group utiliy, this is a good start and not all the changes have hopefully been revealed yet.

I'm very eager to test the new sorcerer on the PTS, especially the pet build.

Leon119

Gyudan wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

davedwildebeast wrote: »

I'm speechless!!!

The way sorcerer abilities work is nice, the class is just not effective enough compared to the others. In my opinion, it's more about numbers than a complete rework of the skills.
As for utility, don't forget that storm astronach is getting a nice buff with the dmg boost awarded to the player channeling the spell. While I'd like to see a real group utiliy, this is a good start and not all the changes have hopefully been revealed yet.

I'm very eager to test the new sorcerer on the PTS, especially the pet build.

surge is stupid now. Why cant the morphs be 1) crit surge as it is now
2) spell dmg and heal

WHY WOULD YOU NEED BOTH ?? They said all staff abilities will be spell damage. So why does a caster need weapon dmg buff ?

Did they really not consider this ?

PBpsy

LoL did you guys get shafted hard. I am kind of happy that my only sorc is lv 20 or something. But then again I will probably have to play an archer nb or some other such crap.

Flaminir

DeLindsay

Leon119 wrote: »

surge is stupid now. Why cant the morphs be 1) crit surge as it is now
2) spell dmg and heal

WHY WOULD YOU NEED BOTH ?? They said all staff abilities will be spell damage. So why does a caster need weapon dmg buff ?

Did they really not consider this ?

Because Sorcs were NOT designed around a Destro staff CS FOTM build, they were built for 2H, in which Crit Surge works perfectly for and ZoS is letting you keep that. So you lost ur heal but gained Spell Damage on the 2nd morph, I don't see the problem since you can't crit in PvP anyway (mostly) and in PvE you have a Healer with you (group content) so you wouldn't need the heal.

Leon119

DeLindsay wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

surge is stupid now. Why cant the morphs be 1) crit surge as it is now
2) spell dmg and heal

WHY WOULD YOU NEED BOTH ?? They said all staff abilities will be spell damage. So why does a caster need weapon dmg buff ?

Did they really not consider this ?

Because Sorcs were NOT designed around a Destro staff CS FOTM build, they were built for 2H, in which Crit Surge works perfectly for and ZoS is letting you keep that. So you lost ur heal but gained Spell Damage on the 2nd morph, I don't see the problem since you can't crit in PvP anyway (mostly) and in PvE you have a Healer with you (group content) so you wouldn't need the heal.

of course because when you hear the word sorcerer you think : thats someone with a huge sword. No way he casts spells....

kkravaritieb17_ESO

But what about pvp?

DeLindsay

Leon119 wrote: »

of course because when you hear the word sorcerer you think : thats someone with a huge sword. No way he casts spells....

It doesn't matter what you or I or 100 other people think Sorcerers should be like, I just stated what ZoS designed them to be like, and that's using a 2H and Crit Surge meshes perfectly with that concept.

Leon119

DeLindsay wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

of course because when you hear the word sorcerer you think : thats someone with a huge sword. No way he casts spells....

It doesn't matter what you or I or 100 other people think Sorcerers should be like, I just stated what ZoS designed them to be like, and that's using a 2H and Crit Surge meshes perfectly with that concept.

Even if that is the case that doesnt allow diversity which this game tries to say it allows players to do.
give me one good reason to use a sorc now compared to other classes

Derra

If you want to be a vaible ranged spellcaster without destro staff you´ve gotta reroll to nightblade.

DeLindsay

Leon119 wrote: »

Even if that is the case that doesnt allow diversity which this game tries to say it allows players to do.
give me one good reason to use a sorc now compared to other classes

Because there will be no change in PvP since you can't really crit anyway, and in PvE you will actually have it easier than NB, DK and Templar who won't get the Spell Damage buff for the FOTM CS build. That's not saying all the sudden Sorcs will be top DPS, but they will be capable of higher Spell Damage than the other 3 Classes just with a different morph.

Derra

DeLindsay wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

Even if that is the case that doesnt allow diversity which this game tries to say it allows players to do.
give me one good reason to use a sorc now compared to other classes

Because there will be no change in PvP since you can't really crit anyway, and in PvE you will actually have it easier than NB, DK and Templar who won't get the Spell Damage buff for the FOTM CS build. That's not saying all the sudden Sorcs will be top DPS, but they will be capable of higher Spell Damage than the other 3 Classes just with a different morph.

Well sorcs did not have great dps to begin with. From what we know this is not really going to be adressed (which is why ppl are upset). Personally i don´t see problems in PvE as they´ve stated the pet specc was doing really good in trials, but i´m concerned for pvp.
The pets are really clunky to use atm and with no chance in them being cc- and very easily killable i don´t know it they will work in cyrodiil.

Gyudan

DeLindsay wrote: »

Leon119 wrote: »

of course because when you hear the word sorcerer you think : thats someone with a huge sword. No way he casts spells....

It doesn't matter what you or I or 100 other people think Sorcerers should be like, I just stated what ZoS designed them to be like, and that's using a 2H and Crit Surge meshes perfectly with that concept.

If templars are supposed to have a restoration staff for healing, DKs a sword and shielf for tanking, NBs dual daggers for assassination and Sorcerers a 2-Handed sword for trolling around, who's wielding the destro staff?

When I look up "sorcerer" on google image, I do not see many swords. Maybe the class should have been named battlemage if it was intended to benefit more extensively from a melee weapon.

I agree with @Leon119 though. The new morph granting both spell and weapon damage will be at best half useless for staff users, since neither the weapon skills nor the light/heavy attacks will be scaling based on weapon damage.

PBpsy

Derra wrote: »

If you want to be a vaible ranged spellcaster without destro staff you´ve gotta reroll to nightblade.

How exactly is that? The only thing that made caster NBs viable was very good ultimate generation from dot,hot crits and the siphoning passive from transfer. The destro change to SP is also a huge nerf to NB aoe since in the current for Sap Essence and Power extraction only up weapon power. I doubt they will not do the same thing with them also, change their morphs so that if you want SP you don't get any heals or some such nonsense.

TheLaw

I can't believe they decided to highlight pets as our savior to DPS. Let's hope there's more to the ability changes than this.

Derra

PBpsy wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

If you want to be a vaible ranged spellcaster without destro staff you´ve gotta reroll to nightblade.

How exactly is that? The only thing that made caster NBs viable was very good ultimate generation from dot,hot crits and the siphoning passive from transfer. The destro change to SP is also a huge nerf to NB aoe since in the current for Sap Essence and Power extraction only up weapon power. I doubt they will not do the same thing with them also, change their morphs so that if you want SP you don't get any heals or some such nonsense.

Oh sry. I´m not to much into the nightblade stuff. I was just referring to sorcs not having an instant ranged DD (apart from crushing shock).

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Gyudan wrote: »

The way sorcerer abilities work is nice, the class is just not effective enough compared to the others. In my opinion, it's more about numbers than a complete rework of the skills.
As for utility, don't forget that storm astronach is getting a nice buff with the dmg boost awarded to the player channeling the spell. While I'd like to see a real group utiliy, this is a good start and not all the changes have hopefully been revealed yet.

I'm very eager to test the new sorcerer on the PTS, especially the pet build.

This might be good for PvE sorcs, but PvP sorcs get nothing from these changes. Pets can all get CC'ed, knocked down, and affected by fighters guild skills in PvP.

If you are fighting a good group and you drop an atronarc, your atro will spend most of his lifespan laying on the ground doing 0 DPS. It has no CC immunity after CC.

A human opponent is always going to be able to outwit, out maneuver or out DPS an AI pet.

Volatile familiar was good for a bit but then they ninja nerfed it and make it so you wouldn't get magicka back if you spammed it because sorcs are the only class punished for spamming.

Here are the things that sorcs still lack.

• An instant cast sustained DPS skill that cannot be reflected.
• A battlefield self heal (surge doesnt work in PvP due to impen and is getting further nerfed if you are a staff sorc)
• A "repulse" skill to get melee off you

Here are some of the abilities that ZOS thinks are perfectly fine. There are about 3 of these that are good the way they are. The rest have glaring issues that really hurt sorc DPS and survivability.

Daedric Summoning

• Unstable familiar - Still bugged where it doesn't always return magicka. ZOS promised to fix damage for this after the bandaid nerf but never did.
• Curse - Useful sorc skill #1 Can only be placed on one enemy at a time. If two sorcs are using curse, the second curse "overwrites" the first one and resets the timer
• Bound Armaments - This morph does not buff heavy attack damage from Overload
• Ultimate: Storm atronarc: Slow and clunky in PvP. Can be chain CC'd for the entire time. Has no CC immunity. AoE morph is very weak and slow. Should be continuous AOE not a few bursts.

Dark Magic

• Crystal Fragments - Useful Sorc skil #2 Sorcs rely on it as the only usuable class DPS
• Encase: Way too expensive for what it does compared to talons. Much harder to use than talons. if you are standing close to someone, it sometimes misses them because the AoE rectangle starts in front of you. Damage morph is anemic.
• Rune Prison: Completely useless in PvP - except for horse trolling. Can't use against block or immovable. This ability needs to have a morph that dispels enemy buffs and works through block. Then this would be valuable even with cast time.
• Dark Exchange: Dangerous to use in PvP where stamina is life. Not effective on the battlefield as it can be interrupted. Would be OK with CC immunity.
• Daedric Mines: Way too expensive. Does not take spell penetration into account.
• Ultimate: Negate - Despite everyone who worships this ability, Most people dont know you can interrupt it and keep casting. Imagine if you could "interrupt" a standard and stand in it with no damage. Absorbsion field is good. Other morph that buffs spell resist is a bit weak. Should be changed so allies take 50% less spell damage under the dome. (like the old annulment)

Storm Calling

• Mages Fury: Useful sorc skill #3. Best execute in the game
• Lightning form: fun but way too short. Extend to 10 sec and this would be amazing.
• Lighting Splash: Laughably weak. Lasts only a few seconds and barely does any damage. Dks can do a rain dance standing in this. Increase radius and duration. Should be more like the NPC "improved storm torrent" where enemies actually have motivation to move out of it. Long duration would help sorcs against melee.
• Surge: Impending nerf to magicka sorcs that need heals too. Useless in PvP for healing because impenatrable trait is so powerful. Thread on it here.
• Bolt escape: No longer an escape. Should change name to bolt evade. Why is this the only ability in the game where you are punished for spamming? Nerf was way too early. Full thread on this here. Full analysis on this here
• Ultimate: Overload. So clunky. Doesn't count as REAL heavy or light attacks so gear and other skills that buff heavy and light attacks don't buff this skill. A person on a horse can outrun the slow, reflect-able glowy ball. Magicka return morph doesn't return enough. AoE morph leaves you vulnerable and is interuptable. Needs a morph where you just add a decent chunk of lighting damage to your heavy and light attacks. Detailed discussion and suggestion Here

TL:DR

Useful (non-ult) sorc skills

• Crystal frags (that morph only)
• Mages fury (either morph)
• Velocious curse (that morph only)

Sorc skills with major issues (the rest)

DeLindsay

TheLaw wrote: »

I can't believe they decided to highlight pets as our savior to DPS. Let's hope there's more to the ability changes than this.

It'll be interesting to see just how much improved the DPS is with a pet build come 1.6 though. If even bad Sorcs can manage 1K DPS with a pet then the changes might be worth it.