Thogard wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Skill can be measured in many ways, as is evidenced in this thread. In order to have any kind of logical, meaningful conversation, two sides have to agree on the criteria of which they are disagreeing. For instance if we are disagreeing on which fruit is better, apples or oranges, we have to agree that:
1) they are both fruit
2) that the word “better” in this case means “tastier”

If we don’t, we’ll all just keep yelling and nothing will ever be communicated.

Generally speaking, this thread is split into “good” and “bad” players in the title but both of these terms are subjective, assumptive, and make it hard to have a real conversation.

I think it’s much better, in this case, to split people by what their ESO pvp goals are and go from there. This makes sense because the terms “good” and “bad” are highly influenced by whether you think this person is accomplishing whatever goals you think are highest.

So instead we split ourselves amongst “faction success” and “individual or small group success”. The core differences between these groups is that they believe success is different things. One believes success is measured by helping assist the alliance war, helping to take keeps and win objectives for their team. They place a large emphasis on the team, on successful coordination, and they relish in their role in it. They care little for separating themselves from the team or individual mastery but instead on the larger mechanism that is faction. They base most of their measures of success on external factors like leaderboards, campaign wins, and kill death ratios. Think of this as a massive army such as that of the US government.
- The end justifies the means.

The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters.

So, in short, once you realize that you are measuring good and bad by entirely different criteria, you will realize that this thread is ultimately very one sided. This is from the POV of the first kind of person, who does not understand or care to understand the goals, tactics, or successes of the second. Inversely, you will find that the second group of people understands the first very well because they used to be them. Nearly every small scaler you speak with will tell you they used to zerg when they started the game. Similarly to how not every soldier is special ops, but every special ops is a soldier. It is likely that the people you’re passing judgement on used to be exactly where you are, their priorities just changed over time.

So if you had to break this down to TL:DR, we understand you but you do not understand us. So perhaps instead of posting accusatory threads that celebrate your version of success as the only possible pinnacle, recognize that this is an incredibly misinformed POV. You should not attempt to mock, diminish, or pass judgment on a playstyle you cannot understand - or replicate.

This is absolute tom foolery, as I can post a number of videos from other games in which my elite "squad" demolishes other teams while I'm also simultaneously responsible for leading an entire faction.

See Aion - Siel. Malagen. My record speaks for itself.

You're assuming that I prefer large group PVP. No, I'm sorry, you misunderstood me from the very beginning it seems. I'm not arguing about the difference between small scalers and large scalers. I'm laughing at you for assuming that there is a difference.

You think that because you run with a small group or solo that you are "elite or special ops". I would argue that the only reason you put yourself into that bucket is because you're incapable of being both elite, and mature enough to also set aside your "eliteness" to achieve a greater goal.

The fact that you attempted to refer to yourself as special ops, jesus christ, I hope you're on PS4. I would absofuckinglutely love to duel you.

You're exactly the kind of person this thread was directed at. You assume that just because people enjoy large scale *** they can't also enjoy small scale stuff.

Here's what I would say. Most of the large scale guild leaders / group leaders could probably put together a small team that would absolutely RIP you. There is a reason they are able to get so many players to listen to them and the small scale community is known for being toxic.

You're elitist. I'm simply calling you out on it. It's good to know that you admit it yourself.

"The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters. "

^This is elitism disguised as, *** I don't know, whatever it is you need to tell yourself that makes you think you're special or different from any other player. You're not. And you're probably not as good as you're trying to come off as.

TLDR: None of you are special, but, back in the day, I was special.

No, none of us are special, you're either good or you're not. It's pretty *** easy to be objective of who is good and who is not, and it's really easy to tell from how they act in game.

People who avoid fights against difficult players because "friends". Yep, them ain't good players bud.

Thogard wrote: »

What’s wrong with elitism?

Every PvPer has it. It’s just that their criteria are different. Large zerg guilds look down on small scale groups because the small scalers run away or lose the fight. Small scale looks down on large scale because they need so many people just to win a fight.

I’m absolutely an elitist even though there are plenty of people out there who are better than me.. and any PvPer who claims to be otherwise is either brand new or lying to themselves.

Ah... I love having people expose themselves. There's nothing wrong with it, I just like how everyone who is a small scaler and feels they are elite came here to white knight against me, and yet somehow throughout the thread subtly admitted I was right from the beginning. They are elitists, it's perfectly fine to be elitist, I just think it's funny when they try to pretend they aren't, or when they try to pretend they are but then avoid fights.

If you're ducking small scale groups that give you a challenge to farm noobs you're not elite. You're trash.

You seem to think that small scale v small scale fights, or vids of those fights don’t exist. They do. And I have more of those uploaded than I do of the 6v18 fights because to me they are more interesting... just harder to come by.

Here’s a vid of me breaking down some GvG strats while going over footage of my GvG fights. Those GvG fights are my group purposely getting together and fighting other small scale groups... the type of fighting you say we avoid. Note the duration and the fact that most of the people you’re arguing with here have made an appearance on the other teams. The only person in this thread who doesn’t show up in this vid at some point is you.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1fDqv7Imkho

MalagenR wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

So upload the clips kid. I’m sure it’s against console pugs light attacking. Can’t wait to recognize zero names except for typical ps4 zerglings.

You recognize names in the potato stomping videos that other people post? I feel like you're holding me to a standard you don't hold to other people.

Not a single person "known" in this thread has linked a 1vX video against good players. Because they know it's almost impossible.

I feel like as a Sorc in Murkmire my 1vX victories have come about due to 2-3 things - Atro / Mine spam - Reso Utl and perfect burst rotation that allows me to kill someone and bail - Meteor & perfect burst rotation that eliminates one of the players immediately.

MalagenR wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Skill can be measured in many ways, as is evidenced in this thread. In order to have any kind of logical, meaningful conversation, two sides have to agree on the criteria of which they are disagreeing. For instance if we are disagreeing on which fruit is better, apples or oranges, we have to agree that:
1) they are both fruit
2) that the word “better” in this case means “tastier”

If we don’t, we’ll all just keep yelling and nothing will ever be communicated.

Generally speaking, this thread is split into “good” and “bad” players in the title but both of these terms are subjective, assumptive, and make it hard to have a real conversation.

I think it’s much better, in this case, to split people by what their ESO pvp goals are and go from there. This makes sense because the terms “good” and “bad” are highly influenced by whether you think this person is accomplishing whatever goals you think are highest.

So instead we split ourselves amongst “faction success” and “individual or small group success”. The core differences between these groups is that they believe success is different things. One believes success is measured by helping assist the alliance war, helping to take keeps and win objectives for their team. They place a large emphasis on the team, on successful coordination, and they relish in their role in it. They care little for separating themselves from the team or individual mastery but instead on the larger mechanism that is faction. They base most of their measures of success on external factors like leaderboards, campaign wins, and kill death ratios. Think of this as a massive army such as that of the US government.
- The end justifies the means.

The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters.

So, in short, once you realize that you are measuring good and bad by entirely different criteria, you will realize that this thread is ultimately very one sided. This is from the POV of the first kind of person, who does not understand or care to understand the goals, tactics, or successes of the second. Inversely, you will find that the second group of people understands the first very well because they used to be them. Nearly every small scaler you speak with will tell you they used to zerg when they started the game. Similarly to how not every soldier is special ops, but every special ops is a soldier. It is likely that the people you’re passing judgement on used to be exactly where you are, their priorities just changed over time.

So if you had to break this down to TL:DR, we understand you but you do not understand us. So perhaps instead of posting accusatory threads that celebrate your version of success as the only possible pinnacle, recognize that this is an incredibly misinformed POV. You should not attempt to mock, diminish, or pass judgment on a playstyle you cannot understand - or replicate.

This is absolute tom foolery, as I can post a number of videos from other games in which my elite "squad" demolishes other teams while I'm also simultaneously responsible for leading an entire faction.

See Aion - Siel. Malagen. My record speaks for itself.

You're assuming that I prefer large group PVP. No, I'm sorry, you misunderstood me from the very beginning it seems. I'm not arguing about the difference between small scalers and large scalers. I'm laughing at you for assuming that there is a difference.

You think that because you run with a small group or solo that you are "elite or special ops". I would argue that the only reason you put yourself into that bucket is because you're incapable of being both elite, and mature enough to also set aside your "eliteness" to achieve a greater goal.

The fact that you attempted to refer to yourself as special ops, jesus christ, I hope you're on PS4. I would absofuckinglutely love to duel you.

You're exactly the kind of person this thread was directed at. You assume that just because people enjoy large scale *** they can't also enjoy small scale stuff.

Here's what I would say. Most of the large scale guild leaders / group leaders could probably put together a small team that would absolutely RIP you. There is a reason they are able to get so many players to listen to them and the small scale community is known for being toxic.

You're elitist. I'm simply calling you out on it. It's good to know that you admit it yourself.

"The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters. "

^This is elitism disguised as, *** I don't know, whatever it is you need to tell yourself that makes you think you're special or different from any other player. You're not. And you're probably not as good as you're trying to come off as.

https://youtu.be/1hecXIVtm8g

MalagenR wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Skill can be measured in many ways, as is evidenced in this thread. In order to have any kind of logical, meaningful conversation, two sides have to agree on the criteria of which they are disagreeing. For instance if we are disagreeing on which fruit is better, apples or oranges, we have to agree that:
1) they are both fruit
2) that the word “better” in this case means “tastier”

If we don’t, we’ll all just keep yelling and nothing will ever be communicated.

Generally speaking, this thread is split into “good” and “bad” players in the title but both of these terms are subjective, assumptive, and make it hard to have a real conversation.

I think it’s much better, in this case, to split people by what their ESO pvp goals are and go from there. This makes sense because the terms “good” and “bad” are highly influenced by whether you think this person is accomplishing whatever goals you think are highest.

So instead we split ourselves amongst “faction success” and “individual or small group success”. The core differences between these groups is that they believe success is different things. One believes success is measured by helping assist the alliance war, helping to take keeps and win objectives for their team. They place a large emphasis on the team, on successful coordination, and they relish in their role in it. They care little for separating themselves from the team or individual mastery but instead on the larger mechanism that is faction. They base most of their measures of success on external factors like leaderboards, campaign wins, and kill death ratios. Think of this as a massive army such as that of the US government.
- The end justifies the means.

The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters.

So, in short, once you realize that you are measuring good and bad by entirely different criteria, you will realize that this thread is ultimately very one sided. This is from the POV of the first kind of person, who does not understand or care to understand the goals, tactics, or successes of the second. Inversely, you will find that the second group of people understands the first very well because they used to be them. Nearly every small scaler you speak with will tell you they used to zerg when they started the game. Similarly to how not every soldier is special ops, but every special ops is a soldier. It is likely that the people you’re passing judgement on used to be exactly where you are, their priorities just changed over time.

So if you had to break this down to TL:DR, we understand you but you do not understand us. So perhaps instead of posting accusatory threads that celebrate your version of success as the only possible pinnacle, recognize that this is an incredibly misinformed POV. You should not attempt to mock, diminish, or pass judgment on a playstyle you cannot understand - or replicate.

This is absolute tom foolery, as I can post a number of videos from other games in which my elite "squad" demolishes other teams while I'm also simultaneously responsible for leading an entire faction.

See Aion - Siel. Malagen. My record speaks for itself.

You're assuming that I prefer large group PVP. No, I'm sorry, you misunderstood me from the very beginning it seems. I'm not arguing about the difference between small scalers and large scalers. I'm laughing at you for assuming that there is a difference.

You think that because you run with a small group or solo that you are "elite or special ops". I would argue that the only reason you put yourself into that bucket is because you're incapable of being both elite, and mature enough to also set aside your "eliteness" to achieve a greater goal.

The fact that you attempted to refer to yourself as special ops, jesus christ, I hope you're on PS4. I would absofuckinglutely love to duel you.

You're exactly the kind of person this thread was directed at. You assume that just because people enjoy large scale *** they can't also enjoy small scale stuff.

Here's what I would say. Most of the large scale guild leaders / group leaders could probably put together a small team that would absolutely RIP you. There is a reason they are able to get so many players to listen to them and the small scale community is known for being toxic.

You're elitist. I'm simply calling you out on it. It's good to know that you admit it yourself.

"The other believes that nothing I just mentioned really matters at all. They believe that the game is truly mastered and success is truly reached when you push yourself and your small group to perform against overwhelming odds. They believe that you succeed when you increase your reaction time, hand/eye coordination, decision making skills, recoverability, uptime of important buffs, and offensive capability. They enjoy finding the perfect ying/yang of offense/defense and analyzing and dismantling their opponent by being a few steps ahead and capitalizing on his weaknesses. They focus on optimizing themselves and their squad, and base most of their measures of success on internal factors such as “did I make the right decision in X situation” and “how can I better enhance Y.” Think of this as an elite tactical special ops group.
- The process matters. "

^This is elitism disguised as, *** I don't know, whatever it is you need to tell yourself that makes you think you're special or different from any other player. You're not. And you're probably not as good as you're trying to come off as.

I don’t think there’s a large guild in the game who could drop to 6 and beat us.
That would have to imply they were competent enough on their own to play with less.
If that were the case wouldn’t they enjoy wiping the masses of players with less as it equates to more of a challenge and a greater reward?

If you have a computer you could install eso and log on the pts where we can make a max cp/geared/leveled character

I’ll duel you there.
You can even hook your controller up.
https://youtu.be/1hecXIVtm8g

Sadly I do not have a PC any longer. Playing competitive PVP MMOs on PC far to addicting to be able to accomplish my career goals & BJJ goals.

You're probably right, your guild is well known, clearly you take a great amount of personal pride in being able to smash noobs better than everyone else and being the said founder of that guild, different strokes for different folks. That doesn't mean behaving like an elitist is okay. Also, haven't you admitted that in your dueling tournaments you'e just abused oblivion damage in the most recent patches?

Double infused w/ Torug's & Sloads or Torug's + Knightslayer, which one were you using? Or 1h/shield w/ Reverb?

I mean your Clanfear video was excellent, no doubt, but weren't you on Shor looking for those fights so that you could get noob stomping highlights because you can't find "good 1vX on Vivec anymore"

lol you want to crush noobs so bad you run to other campaigns to do it, gtfohere.