Cinbri wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

and @Cinbri coming here with broken English

But I try my best

(hope it made at least someone to smile atleast for a second while reading this thread)

Lets all just wait and see what Monday patch will bring us. Maybe it will be something amazing and everyone, including dk will be happy.

I think he meant that in a nice way. Like "even if English is their second (or third, or fourth) language, @Cinbri 's effort and information they put into their posts are still amazing!"

zParallaxz wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Why are people talking about DKs in a "Fix Templar" thread? Honestly, begone DKs. Quit making posts that are off topic.

The same reason why we get no developer response on magdk balance on the last 1 1/2 while a thread like this gets instant responses.

You must be new to this whole PTS dance...

Look, that is not how things work here. The fact of the matter is that ZOS, by default, does not respond to any feedback we provide. They just don't. It's like a corporate policy or something. Whatever changes they do, they will do, despite any arguments against them. So if you feel that the changes coming with this update are bad, then too bad. Them's the breaks, and you gotta learn to live with them.

You can, and should, still rage against them. And hope that they will see the light in the end. Sometimes they do. Though it is extremely rare, and you might have to wait years for things to change.

The only thing you can expect to get a response to, is when you can demonstrate a clear straight bug in their designs. Whether those designs are bad or good, whether they will under perform or over perform are irrelevant things. Their design is what it is and their philosophy seems to be: "Let's try it out for a while and see what happens." Even if the changes are immediately obvious to everyone to be BAD.

Templars have gone through this nonsense many many times. Without any response or argument from ZOS towards explaining why they do the things they do. We have provided detailed analyses of proposed changes, offered numbers and math that clearly show the changes to be BAD, and even so, ZOS has kept on course with the changes anyway, without any response to any of the arguments clearly demonstrating them to be BAD.

Any attempt, no matte how detailed or well crafted, to demonstrate the need to buff some aspect of the Templars skill suite have also gone equally un-responded. (Sometimes I feel like unnoticed would be the right word to use, but they do keep telling us that they do read all our feedback, even if they do not respond to it, and do take it in consideration even if they ultimately choose to go in a different direction. Whether you believe any of that is up to you. For the record... I kinda think they do read a lot of the stuff we say, but tend to do something different, from whatever is proposed by us, just on principle or something.)

The only things that tend to get a response from the devs in PTS cycle is an issue where there is a clear bug. Something that is not doing what they said it was gonna be doing. The case in point; Puncturing Sweeps - the skill had been bugged for a long time. ZOS finally announced that it was gonna get fixed. When people tested it, it turned out that it was even more broken than it used to be, and that the thing they claimed to have fixed was also broken.

That is what they respond to. And it still required PTS players to find this issue out. I mean think about it... On the first iteration of the current PTS, Puncturing Sweeps did no heal the caster... The whole point of that skill did not work. How did that get pass internal testing? It's like they just implemented the code changes and skipped checking it out in game completely and left it totally on the shoulders of the PTS crowd.

When we pointed that out, it got a response. When we demonstrated that the skill does less damage on the PTS than it does on live, even though it was supposed to be fixed so that it will do more damage, that got a response too. These are clear bugs in implementing their latest batch of changes and fixes. That is the kinda stuff that will get a response on the PTS sub-forums. Everything else will just get a silent treatment.

So, if you feel that DKs needs work, or that some of the new changes are bad for the class, then you really have very little you can do about it. You can try offering well crafted arguments towards that point of view, and hope that someone there at ZOS reads your thoughts and agrees with them. But do not expect to get a response. That will never happen.

If you are absolutely adamant about there being a bug with some skill or aspect of the class, then you need to rage about it, and be vocal about it, and keep doing it until they respond. Although they might never respond to it directly. You might get a "Well look into that." at best, or maybe an off hand comment during an ESO live that they are "Checking it out."

Keep in mind, that the issue with Puncturing Sweeps is something that we, the players, figured out to be broken and had documented it clearly few weeks after that disaster hit live servers. It took several months of screaming about it just to get a "Well look in to that." as a response, and then we had to live for 6 months with a broken skill before they even attempted to fix it. (And when they finally did, it got even more broken as a result...)

That's the way the cookie crumbles. And it sucks when your class gets the silent treatment during the PTS cycle. But one thing is absolutely certain - complaining about things relating to DKs in a Templar thread will not get you anywhere with ZOS doing something about it.

p.s. - I also have DK character, so it's not like I don't know how you feel. But as they said in a recent episode of Live "It is what it is." And the sooner you learn to live wit the fact that ZOS does what it does, regardless of what you feel about it, the less headaches you 're gonna get.

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

This thread was created for the purpose of discussing the state of the Templar class on the PTS. We have removed several comments that were off-topic and starting to derail this thread. Let's keep this discussion focused on the Templar class. If you would like to discuss other classes please comment in an existing thread for that class or create a new one where you can convey your thoughts and Ideas.

Thanks for not locking us out of our house!

The psuedo nerfs pre-discovery were only meant for @Deltia 's Templar I kid, but can relate as I deleted my pre morrowind Templar

Thanks guys for testing. This is what the PTS is for...

Minno wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

Hi, I want to remind that Burning Light is still dping less damage on PTS then on Live.
Additionally it is not being affected by CP in Spell Erosion (I already reported this once a couple of months ago but nothing happened so far... ).

Can you post numbers? This will help push those fixes!

OK...

Live, 46 Points in Spell Erosion


Puncturing Sweep: 2921 | Burning Light: 3330

PTS, 46 Points in Spell Erosion


Puncturing Sweep: 2923 | Burning Light: 2981

Puncturing Sweep is pretty much the same (It has a new AbilityId so I guess it was completely refactored as mentioned in the Patch Notes)
Burning Light damage is about 8% reduced compared to Live.

PTS, 0 Points in Spell Erosion (46 in Blessing instead)


Puncturing Sweep: 2654 | Burning Light: 2981

Note how Burning Light damage is the same but Puncturing Sweep is ~ 9% lower (due to missing penetration from CP)
Char is the same in all cases (Character Copy, didn't use additional CP, same equip (I compared the stats))

Edit: Also thx ZOS for giving Burning Light its normal Icon in Addons

Solinur wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

Hi, I want to remind that Burning Light is still dping less damage on PTS then on Live.
Additionally it is not being affected by CP in Spell Erosion (I already reported this once a couple of months ago but nothing happened so far... ).

Can you post numbers? This will help push those fixes!

OK...

Live, 46 Points in Spell Erosion


Puncturing Sweep: 2921 | Burning Light: 3330

PTS, 46 Points in Spell Erosion


Puncturing Sweep: 2923 | Burning Light: 2981

Puncturing Sweep is pretty much the same (It has a new AbilityId so I guess it was completely refactored as mentioned in the Patch Notes)
Burning Light damage is about 8% reduced compared to Live.

PTS, 0 Points in Spell Erosion (46 in Blessing instead)


Puncturing Sweep: 2654 | Burning Light: 2981

Note how Burning Light damage is the same but Puncturing Sweep is ~ 9% lower (due to missing penetration from CP)
Char is the same in all cases (Character Copy, didn't use additional CP, same equip (I compared the stats))

Edit: Also thx ZOS for giving Burning Light its normal Icon in Addons

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel Hopefully these numbers can help and looking into the CP in Spell Erosion not working properly issue as well would be very much appreciated. Thanks again for all your time looking into this!!

Well no Templar fixes for this week, not looking good.

Usually stuff that gets coded on after Wednesday or so, doesn't make it into the patch on monday, since it has to go through some stages of implementation and testing. I don't expect anything before next week, or even live.

danno8 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Definitely needs a healing nerf. Heavy armor sword and shield Templars that can endlessly spam breath of life are beyond a joke.

Candidate for worst post of the year? Completely off-topic, clearly uninformed and with nothing constructive whatsoever.

As to the skill itself...my God. Do they not even take these things out for a quick spin after altering them?

Sweeps should do less damage. There's my constructive feedback.

Cinbri wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Attacks that cannot be blocked or dodged

• Effects that are on or inside a player character, such as Daedric Curse, or Backlash. (Damage over time effects)

That is how it indeed should work and that's why Burning Light that is "effect on player character" should become unblockable, same as Implosion did. Otherwise it inconsistent and fail to Block and Dodge Ruleset

Agreed, burning light should be unblockable/undodgable since it is an effect on the enemy player. Even if they don't agree, it should be a special case given that it requires a spear ability to proc and has a specific cooldown+proc chance hiding it.

Hutch679 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Definitely needs a healing nerf. Heavy armor sword and shield Templars that can endlessly spam breath of life are beyond a joke.

Candidate for worst post of the year? Completely off-topic, clearly uninformed and with nothing constructive whatsoever.

As to the skill itself...my God. Do they not even take these things out for a quick spin after altering them?

Sweeps should do less damage. There's my constructive feedback.

You post this feedback based on what testimonials or evidence?

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Solinur wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Don't expect too much. It's only in combination with Minor Vulnerability and only ~3-4 %. If you are doing PvP though you'll like the increased sidewards size.

I've used a Vulnerability build on Live server for the past 2 months. I will have more damage next update if the proposed changes are completed without issue.

As for the slight range increase, it won't matter as I never hope to severely damage someone who isn't in the dead center of sweeps anyway.

Solinur wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Don't expect too much. It's only in combination with Minor Vulnerability and only ~3-4 %. If you are doing PvP though you'll like the increased sidewards size.

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Firstmep wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Solinur wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Anyway, Puncturing Strikes (and morphs) is being buffed next update so don’t hold your breath!

Don't expect too much. It's only in combination with Minor Vulnerability and only ~3-4 %. If you are doing PvP though you'll like the increased sidewards size.

Even without vulnerability you'll feel a difference. On Live-Server its like ~90% more damage to the nearest target (bc of CP mostly). On PTS its ~140% like it should be...

Is that on a target dummy?
@Cinbri have you tested it on players?

yep, tested on target dummies. was one of the last things i did before leaving