Fix Templar

tamrielwinner

"Puncturing Strikes: Refactored the damage done by this ability and its morphs so it works more intuitively with damage taken bonuses on the enemy. Previously, Puncturing Strike’s bonus damage to the closest enemy would be additive with damage taken bonuses, such as Minor Vulnerability.
Note: This will result in increased damage on targets with Minor Vulnerability."

i hope they do not nerf the damage in any way, the size of or aspect that the ability functions, and that the only change is the damage gained from targets with minor vulnerability

NoFlash

Praying for positive fixes to the templar class! Make sweeps and beam great again!

ADarklore

So it appears we have to wait until NEXT patch to get any type of Templar fixes.

Minno

ADarklore wrote: »

So it appears we have to wait until NEXT patch to get any type of Templar fixes.

But a slight buff, our spear shards will use up earthgore's purge.

A nerf if you fought someone 1v1 that had that set on and you so happen to roll spear shards as your only AOE damage ability to fight against blocked targets.

technohic

Minno wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

So it appears we have to wait until NEXT patch to get any type of Templar fixes.

But a slight buff, our spear shards will use up earthgore's purge.

A nerf if you fought someone 1v1 that had that set on and you so happen to roll spear shards as your only AOE damage ability to fight against blocked targets.

Hmm; might be a standard move when fighting groups with lots of earth gore. Spam some spear shards on them then bomb.

Cinbri

Templar Life Matters

A very short compilation of bugs and mechanic problems Templars suffer from:

1. Radial Sweep hitbox bugged - Radial Sweep and both of its morph can bug and miss target on initial hit, no matter how close it stands to caster, tried ult without animation cancelling and it still bugged, so it not related to animation cancelling like snb ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLc3iIJL3EY

2. Puncturing Strikes mechanic problem of landing hits on enemy:
Soft CC snare from Strikes is blockable - fixed.

Cinbri wrote: »

That was just a quick recording, you can get such easily by simply dueling, but it show obviously enough what is wrong with strikes - on image, despite target is in front of caster, all 4 attacks missing it!

That started to happen after changing strikes direction from camera pov to char pov. when enemy strafing you simply cant use movement to strafing same way too in addition that small cone make even small deviations from pathing to enemy resulting in missing hits and cone area is "blinking" into rudiculously different directions that making hits miss even when enemy in cone area. And when target has major speed buff or server lags that is common nowdays - you simply can forget about hitting it...

I see 2 ways to fix it:
1. Change cone area of skill and both morphs back to when morph effect of Puncturing Sweeps was deals "damage in a large cone" instead of healing. As result it won't affect roots functionality but remove problem of strafing as even when enemy will be slightly out of caster pov they still will be in range of strikes and will be reliably hitted.
Something like this, where red is current cone, blue is increased cone:



2. Change jabs direction back from following char pov to follow camera pov. It will affect roots functionality but will also solve this problem.
With such fix jabs will always land infront of character instead of deviating left or right during movement.
In this case it would be something like this always:

And will allow to use strafing or strafing+forward+backward movement reliably without hurting functionality of skill.

Why Strikes were reliably hit enemies before? Because back in time Sweeps morph granted it a larger cone that allowed to hit any target infront. While Jabs despite had small cone still were able to hit reliably too coz landing mechanic was bounded to camera PoV. That's why after Sweeps lost large cone it could still land it hits, but when new mechanic of following character PoV was introduced it created this problem - small cone in combine with movement restrictions.

3. Explosive Charge missing cloacked targets - if enemy is cloacked it won't be revealed by AoE nor will receive AoE damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y

4. Spear Shards initial hit counts as dot - while it is obvious that initial AoE hit is direct damage attack like Impulse or wardens ice shards, it counting as DoT and buffed by dot cp. As result it can't proc things that proc on direct attacks.

5. Solar Barrage - while being dot itself it not boosting by dot cp but boosting by direct damage cp. However can't proc things that proc on direct damage like Nerien/Bloodthorn/Varen sets, but proc dot things like Valkyn.

6. Backlash - while being direct attack it's initial hit can't proc things that proc on direct attacks, like Nerien set or Bloodthorn set.

7. Eclipse/Unstable Core - while every damage return proc counted as direct attack, it can't proc Bloodthorn set 5pc bonus, while can proc other sets like Nerien.

Magnetic bomb of Unstable Core - while counted as direct aoe explosion for CP it cant proc sets that proc on direct attacks like Nerien and Bloodthorn, also set like Varen Legacy doesn't count it as direct aoe attack and not buff it.

Still granting CC Immunity on cleansing it. It was considered as bug in Morrowind update but still staying after overhaul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On85vQPv9OE

Grant CC Immunity on expire is inconsistent and allow it apply on CC immune enemies, that bring to weird situation when enemy has both CC effect and CC Immunity on him:


8. Rushed Ceremony animation stutter - same like old Barrage had - upon cast sometimes your char rooted for miliseconds during casting animation.

By using line of horizon you can see that it stop moving, it means that it not just some visual illusion of cast. Very annoying when it occure while kiting.

9. Rite of Passage - healing ignore any LoS.

10. Healing Ritual - healing ignore LoS.

11. Rune Focus - despite old change to mechanic of no longer affect allies inside but caster, it still counting as support buff of ally and thus casting it removing buffs like Rapid Maneuver, even if there is no ally nor enemy, that can be affected by snare, are nearby.


12. Radiant Aura - doesn't apply its debuff on stealthed or cloacked enemy. Bugged this way back when it changed to stop revealing invisible targets.


13. Repentance - still work to absorb hp and stamina on Shadowrend set.


14. Javelin double CC - doesn't apply CC immunity upon CCing enemy, allowing to use knockback several times upon fast cast.

As you can see 1st Javelin didn't grant cc immunity for its duration of CC, grant it only on expire, almost same problem as Eclipse has. LUI addon also shows 2 Stun effects used.

15. Focused Charge - after new mechanic of uninterruptable channels morph loosing its function of interrupting and as result it loosing source of off-balance, so how about allow morph to stun and apply off-balance if stunned, not if interrupted that wont work most of time now.


@ZOS_GinaBruno if those problems would be looked at on PTS, we would appreciate it.

Firstmep

May be wrong on this one but i swear i repented someone elses defiler set the other day.
I wonder How many sets can be repented still. Tbh they never said they didnt want this creatures repented just that they despawn uton expiring to improve performance.

Trashs1

great work @Cinbri

Cinbri

Firstmep wrote: »

May be wrong on this one but i swear i repented someone elses defiler set the other day.
I wonder How many sets can be repented still. Tbh they never said they didnt want this creatures repented just that they despawn uton expiring to improve performance.

The problem with setups is that they didn't update old sets for overhauled/new skills. For example Warden can't proc Varen set with any of his direct damage aoes (according to wardens themselves).
Or incase of templar - Bloodthorn sont work with skills like Backlash, Eclipse, etc.., i.e. skills that were changed previously but seems forgot to be added to function with set.

technohic

Good work Cinbri

Ron_Burgundy_79

Firstmep wrote: »

May be wrong on this one but i swear i repented someone elses defiler set the other day.
I wonder How many sets can be repented still. Tbh they never said they didnt want this creatures repented just that they despawn uton expiring to improve performance.

I'll do some testing, but it was possible to repent the defiler proc when Morrowind launched.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks so much @Cinbri, passing your post along.

Trashs1

wow quality feedback gets attention from zos

Animus-ESO

Trashs1 wrote: »

wow quality feedback gets attention from zos

Instructions unclear, just going to trash talk zos until they fix the things I want to be fixed with out telling them whats wrong.

Animus-ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Templar Life Matters

A very short compilation of bugs and mechanic problems Templars suffer from:

1. Radial Sweep hitbox bugged - Radial Sweep and both of its morph can bug and miss target on initial hit, no matter how close it stands to caster, tried ult without animation cancelling and it still bugged, so it not related to animation cancelling like snb ult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLc3iIJL3EY

2. Puncturing Strikes mechanic problem of landing hits on enemy:
Soft CC snare from Strikes is blockable - fixed.

Cinbri wrote: »

That was just a quick recording, you can get such easily by simply dueling, but it show obviously enough what is wrong with strikes - on image, despite target is in front of caster, all 4 attacks missing it!

That started to happen after changing strikes direction from camera pov to char pov. when enemy strafing you simply cant use movement to strafing same way too in addition that small cone make even small deviations from pathing to enemy resulting in missing hits and cone area is "blinking" into rudiculously different directions that making hits miss even when enemy in cone area. And when target has major speed buff or server lags that is common nowdays - you simply can forget about hitting it...

I see 2 ways to fix it:
1. Change cone area of skill and both morphs back to when morph effect of Puncturing Sweeps was deals "damage in a large cone" instead of healing. As result it won't affect roots functionality but remove problem of strafing as even when enemy will be slightly out of caster pov they still will be in range of strikes and will be reliably hitted.
Something like this, where red is current cone, blue is increased cone:



2. Change jabs direction back from following char pov to follow camera pov. It will affect roots functionality but will also solve this problem.
With such fix jabs will always land infront of character instead of deviating left or right during movement.
In this case it would be something like this always:

And will allow to use strafing or strafing+forward+backward movement reliably without hurting functionality of skill.

Why Strikes were reliably hit enemies before? Because back in time Sweeps morph granted it a larger cone that allowed to hit any target infront. While Jabs despite had small cone still were able to hit reliably too coz landing mechanic was bounded to camera PoV. That's why after Sweeps lost large cone it could still land it hits, but when new mechanic of following character PoV was introduced it created this problem - small cone in combine with movement restrictions.

3. Explosive Charge missing cloacked targets - if enemy is cloacked it won't be revealed by AoE nor will receive AoE damage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAtRi8nKm1Y

4. Spear Shards initial hit counts as dot - while it is obvious that initial AoE hit is direct damage attack like Impulse or wardens ice shards, it counting as DoT and buffed by dot cp. As result it can't proc things that proc on direct attacks.

5. Solar Barrage - while being dot itself it not boosting by dot cp but boosting by direct damage cp. However can't proc things that proc on direct damage like Nerien/Bloodthorn/Varen sets, but proc dot things like Valkyn.

6. Backlash - while being direct attack it's initial hit can't proc things that proc on direct attacks, like Nerien set or Bloodthorn set.

7. Eclipse/Unstable Core - while every damage return proc counted as direct attack, it can't proc Bloodthorn set 5pc bonus, while can proc other sets like Nerien.

Magnetic bomb of Unstable Core - while counted as direct aoe explosion for CP it cant proc sets that proc on direct attacks like Nerien and Bloodthorn, also set like Varen Legacy doesn't count it as direct aoe attack and not buff it.

Still granting CC Immunity on cleansing it. It was considered as bug in Morrowind update but still staying after overhaul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On85vQPv9OE

Grant CC Immunity on expire is inconsistent and allow it apply on CC immune enemies, that bring to weird situation when enemy has both CC effect and CC Immunity on him:


8. Rushed Ceremony animation stutter - same like old Barrage had - upon cast sometimes your char rooted for miliseconds during casting animation.

By using line of horizon you can see that it stop moving, it means that it not just some visual illusion of cast. Very annoying when it occure while kiting.

9. Rite of Passage - healing ignore any LoS.

10. Healing Ritual - healing ignore LoS.

11. Rune Focus - despite old change to mechanic of no longer affect allies inside but caster, it still counting as support buff of ally and thus casting it removing buffs like Rapid Maneuver, even if there is no ally nor enemy, that can be affected by snare, are nearby.


12. Radiant Aura - doesn't apply its debuff on stealthed or cloacked enemy. Bugged this way back when it changed to stop revealing invisible targets.


13. Repentance - still work to absorb hp and stamina on Shadowrend set.


14. Javelin double CC - doesn't apply CC immunity upon CCing enemy, allowing to use knockback several times upon fast cast.

As you can see 1st Javelin didn't grant cc immunity for its duration of CC, grant it only on expire, almost same problem as Eclipse has. LUI addon also shows 2 Stun effects used.

15. Focused Charge - after new mechanic of uninterruptable channels morph loosing its function of interrupting and as result it loosing source of off-balance, so how about allow morph to stun and apply off-balance if stunned, not if interrupted that wont work most of time now.


@ZOS_GinaBruno if those problems would be looked at on PTS, we would appreciate it.

You are a goddess. Thanks for taking the time to report a comprehensive list of templar bugs. I'm not much of a writer and I lack recording programs to document some of the issues I've found.

Hiero_Glyph

Trashs1 wrote: »

wow quality feedback gets attention from zos

That doesn't mean it will be fixed soon or ever. Many Templar issues have been documented and reported for a very long time now and little/nothing has been done to resolve them. It is nice to see a response on these issues but don't expect much.

Trashs1

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

wow quality feedback gets attention from zos

That doesn't mean it will be fixed soon or ever. Many Templar issues have been documented and reported for a very long time now and little/nothing has been done to resolve them. It is nice to see a response on these issues but don't expect much.

dont kill my hope so fast^^

Ron_Burgundy_79

Trashs1 wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

wow quality feedback gets attention from zos

That doesn't mean it will be fixed soon or ever. Many Templar issues have been documented and reported for a very long time now and little/nothing has been done to resolve them. It is nice to see a response on these issues but don't expect much.

dont kill my hope so fast^^

ZOS WOULD NEVER LET CLASS BREAKING BUGS MAKE IT TO THE LIVE SERVER. NEVER.

Joy_Division

Great compilation @Cinbri

Ron_Burgundy_79

Joy_Division wrote: »

Great compilation @Cinbri

Agreed. I do a lot of trolling on the forums, but I wanted to say thanks @Cinbri . Hopefully your hard work will be put to good use.

danno8

Classic @Cinbri .

Every PTS.

Doctordarkspawn

So is the jabs bug fixed yet?

danno8

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

So is the jabs bug fixed yet?

Which one? The old one or the host of new ones they introduced while trying to fix the old one?

Actually it doesn't matter, the answer is "no" on both counts, lol.

Cinbri

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

ADarklore

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

Thank you for staying on top of this!! Hopefully ZOS continues to pay attention, Templars, especially Magplars, have been towards the bottom for far too long and definitely need a boost.

Animus-ESO

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

I guess I will have to test the new damage changes before I make a decision. I hope it helps but the way wrobel talked about it I don't have high hopes.

CyrusArya

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

Is this for just sweeps or jabs too? I know ppl use the terms collectively. And also, why does there have to be a temporary solution? Why are they trying to fix something that isn’t broken? In regards to targeting and connecting there isn’t anything wrong on live...

How is it so hard to isolate the issue that is causing the discrepancy and just prevent that? I don’t understand how any balance changes justify breaking a class’ fundamentals.

Animus-ESO

CyrusArya wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

Is this for just sweeps or jabs too? I know ppl use the terms collectively. And also, why does there have to be a temporary solution? Why are they trying to fix something that isn’t broken? In regards to targeting and connecting there isn’t anything wrong on live...

How is it so hard to isolate the issue that is causing the discrepancy and just prevent that? I don’t understand how any balance changes justify breaking a class’ fundamentals.

My honest assessment of this problem is that ZOS outsources there patch code now. I don't think the new coders understand how the original coders programmed the skills. If you have noticed there is a trend among recent skill changes, they attempt to change something, it breaks, then they completely rework the skill from scratch because they don't know how to fix it. Gap closers are a prime example.

I foresee that sweeps and jabs will get a complete rework next patch after this one.

Zinaroth

ADarklore wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

Thank you for staying on top of this!! Hopefully ZOS continues to pay attention, Templars, especially Magplars, have been towards the bottom for far too long and definitely need a boost.

Templars in general need some love. I do however not understand how you can rate Stamplars over Magplars currently. While Templars in general suffer from an unspired class ideology that lacks interesting build synergy, and Magplars suffer from bugs, Stamplars suffer from an ideology in total - rendering almost all class abilities useless. Currently the worst stam spec by far and Magplar outshines it in all small scale and solo play due to its increased defensive capabilities. Just my opinion.

Myerscod

Zinaroth wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Short recap from eso live:
1. Strikes formula changed again to fix damage bug.
2. Fast-placed solution of strikes terrible connection with enemy is increase its aoe from current 8x5 to 8x6. Along with unblockable snare thats should help for now.
And its only documented changes.
Will post small compilation of couple more problems/bugs a bit later.

Sweeps aoe is #rekttiger.

Thank you for staying on top of this!! Hopefully ZOS continues to pay attention, Templars, especially Magplars, have been towards the bottom for far too long and definitely need a boost.

Templars in general need some love. I do however not understand how you can rate Stamplars over Magplars currently. While Templars in general suffer from an unspired class ideology that lacks interesting build synergy, and Magplars suffer from bugs, Stamplars suffer from an ideology in total - rendering almost all class abilities useless. Currently the worst stam spec by far and Magplar outshines it in all small scale and solo play due to its increased defensive capabilities. Just my opinion.

I think he meant pve, but you know, the whole pve vs pvp balance discussion will never be answered