PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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And that what i said, but probably "/" that i used to generalize effect misleaded you. Luminous grant 1875 magicka but synnergy is 20 sec cooldown. For such amount of magicka you won't be able to cast even a single BoL, you will need 2 synnergies just for 1 spell, it means you need to wait 40 seconds to have enough magicka from 2 synnergies just for cast of 1 BoL; this magicka return completely useless. While stamina gain is very important , Luminous grant only 175 more than Blazing.usmcjdking wrote: »
I pointed it out already several times, so... Morph grant you literally 35 stamina/magicka more than other morph. Once again - I don't see how 35 mana regeneration could be relevant in this game. This additional mana won't allow you to even cast 1 BoL...usmcjdking wrote: »
I indeed misclicked one number and made small mistake with math 1875-1700=175, not 185. But sadly this is only mistake in my post.
You're reading the tooltip of resource return wrong then.And now about resource returns - as you can see on screen of morphs - Luminous grant 185 more stamina/magicka return over 10 sec duration after synnergizing skill. It means for 10 seconds duration it grant ally an additional 37 stamina/magicka regeneration. Sorry, but I just refuse to see how 37 more stamina/magicka regen is counted near as "more resources". For this reason morph still much weaker.
It's 1875 over 10 seconds, NOT 185 over 10 seconds. That is a good amount of regen.
If they fix Luminous CC, it will be decent. (I say decent because it's the hardest CC to land relative to other CCs.)
Question is - will they?
Feature of Luminous is more resource returns, so check on my screenshot how big difference in synnergy restore between morphs: Blazing - 1700, Luminous - 1875. Difference is only 175 mag/stamina. converting it to most wide-spreaded comparable format of "regeneration" make it equal 35 stamina/mana regeneration. Well, 35 is even worse than 37 but still this "more resources" feature is irrelevant, and this one of reasons why Blazing overperform.
Blazing provides no magicka return Cinbri.
You are misreading.
Blazing Spear: 25% stamina and 1700 stamina over 10 seconds
Luminous Shards: 25% stamina and 1875 stamina AND MAGICKA over 10 seconds.
Recap: the difference in resources returns of both morphs is absolutelly irrelevant and Luminous morph can't be counted as it return "more resources". It does, but only on paper.Edited by Cinbri on January 10, 2017 9:43PM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Meh. The resources return might be OK for PVE when people know its meant for your tank or whatever but it seems like whenever I see one I could grab for some stam, its disappeared. I assume they are gone after one person grabs it and I often wonder if someone is macroing their synergy key.Edited by technohic on January 10, 2017 7:03PM0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, only 1 person. It even have visual of large spear in middle of aoe that you picking up and that dissapearing after you pick it up.Meh. The resources return might be OK for PVE when people know its meant for your tank or whatever but it seems like whenever I see one I could grab for some stam, its disappeared. I assume they are gone after one person grabs it and I often wonder if someone is macroing their synergy key.0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭
It's a staple magplar DPS ability, PvE wise. Many reasons, the minor sorcery buff upon cast (from Dawn's Wrath passives), the Major Prophecy buff upon cast clears up an entire slot on your bar. The dmg on cast is strong and the damage over time is also strong. Nothing about this ability needs touched.~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes, only 1 person. It even have visual of large spear in middle of aoe that you picking up and that dissapearing after you pick it up.Meh. The resources return might be OK for PVE when people know its meant for your tank or whatever but it seems like whenever I see one I could grab for some stam, its disappeared. I assume they are gone after one person grabs it and I often wonder if someone is macroing their synergy key.
Thats what I suspected but the spear has still been there when someone else has thrown it, yet I cannot pick it up. Wonder if its just a matter of delay in the animation going away.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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It might happen only in large fights afaik when visual effects stoped rendering. Also don't forget that synnergy has very long cooldown.
Yes, only 1 person. It even have visual of large spear in middle of aoe that you picking up and that dissapearing after you pick it up.Meh. The resources return might be OK for PVE when people know its meant for your tank or whatever but it seems like whenever I see one I could grab for some stam, its disappeared. I assume they are gone after one person grabs it and I often wonder if someone is macroing their synergy key.
Thats what I suspected but the spear has still been there when someone else has thrown it, yet I cannot pick it up. Wonder if its just a matter of delay in the animation going away.Edited by Cinbri on January 10, 2017 9:48PM0 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭If disorients didn't break on DoTs, maybe the spear nerf would work, but DoTs, which are everywhere, make them nigh useless.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?0 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭@Cinbri - i see now what you mean.
Question is - will they make Luminous worthwhile or will they just follow the trend and nerf Blazing even more in order to make Luminous a more "appealing" morph?
It just seems that they go at these changes in a very backwards way, hence my resentment for them removing the stun on Blazing without providing anything else to make up for the loss.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yeah the Blazing Spear balance and stun removal didn't really make much sense to me. As annoying as the stun was in PVP (and why I imagine they ultimately removed it), it wasn't THAT strong of a skill.
Magplar is seriously overperfoming for a multitude of reasons (omnidirectional BOL, HA passives, mist form allowing for resource return via alternative means than regen) but blazing spear wasn't one of them.0331
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bovardjeff_ESO✭✭✭@templesus
You should re-read my post i dont like either of those terms because I AM NEITHER. I am fine with all my abilities HOWEVER, stamina does not have the ease of magicka return because
A. My regen goes out the window when i start to block.
B. Magicka has wayyy more ways to get return and reduce overall cost i.e: honor the dead is one such and with certain cp passive i get way more magicka back during a fight. not to mention my magicka regeneration never stops.
PLEASE leave the term stamplar or magplar out of this, i dont like stamina morphs because they always get the better of the two morph abilities so you get placated and then im left with nothing but terrible morphs (i.e aurora javelin)
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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We will find out next week. I hope for the best but won't be surprised by worst scenario, sadly.@Cinbri - i see now what you mean.
Question is - will they make Luminous worthwhile or will they just follow the trend and nerf Blazing even more in order to make Luminous a more "appealing" morph?
It just seems that they go at these changes in a very backwards way, hence my resentment for them removing the stun on Blazing without providing anything else to make up for the loss.
Meanwhile, does anyone from NA can confirm that Engine no longer repentable? It seems unreasonble nerf and big hit for stamplars.0 -
Asayre✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Radiant Destruction: Decreased the damage from this ability and its morphs by approximately 21%.
The damage of Radiant Destruction has not been correctly implemented on the PTS. It appears that only the tooltip of Radiant Oppression is decreased by approximately 21% while damage remains unchanged. I tested my Light Attack, Piercing Javelin and Radiant Destuction damage using identical characters on PTS and Live and found no difference between them, as evidenced in the image below. The tooltip damage of Radiant Oppression on the PTS is about 21% less than that on Live. I would also like to draw attention to the difference in ability cost in a dungeon as compared to the overworld. Further details were provided in a previous post. The tooltip for Radiant Oppression still does not show the influence of CP or other multipliers on the PTS.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »- Blazing Spear (Spear Shards morph): Increased the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 6 seconds, causing it to tick damage an additional 2 times; however, it no longer stuns the enemy when it first hits them.
While the tooltip duration of Blazing Spear has been increased from 6 to 8 seconds, it only ticks one extra time.
Note: The damage difference of Blazing Spear is due to having a Lightning staff equipped.Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation15 -
ChRiS_the_GaMeR✭✭✭I want to give some feedback about stamplars ...
In my opinion the biggest issue with stamplars are the passives and the dawn's wrath and restoring light tree.
All classes got a basic idea behind them but still are able to offer some uniqueness for stamina and magicka.
For example NB is about being the stealth/rogue, dark type character while stamina is mostly played as the classic assasin, the magicka way offers the lifestealing darkmage style.
Templars are mostly focused on healing/supporting but since stamina characters aren't ment for healing they don't have their own uniquess to them.
You said you don't want to give templars mobility because you want them to stand their ground similar to dk's but with this whole "defend your house" idea in mind.
Thats ok because thats at least a idea, but their current state doesn't synergise well with that idea. In the last months they got some tankyness even with medium armor but thats not enough for open world pvp if they need to stay in their house.
I cant't say what whould be good for passive changes but what about changing two of their utility skills from restoring light even further to specialise them for stamina users.
I was thinking off ritual of retribution and restoring focus.
You could change the cleansing ritual morphs so that extended ritual gets the increased healing from ritual of retribution in addition to the current effects.
But since you decreased the evasion buff you could change ritual of retribution to a stamina skill, remove the cleansing, the synergy and the heal over time while still having the damage over time (that now is scaling with stamina and weapon dmg) and adding the major evasion buff for (only) yourself and the minor defile for all enemies within the circle.
Restoring focus could simply be changed to a stamina skill while adding the restoring magicka effect from channeled focus but it should restore stamina instead of magicka.
You could even go further and change rune focus so that it would be a 30 seconds buff with the current effects while adding a visual effect similar to bound armor from the sorcerer and remove the rune.
That are just two ideas that probably arent even good or balanced but the idea behind them is to give the stamina templar some kind of unqiueness.
The templar as class has many support skills. The magplar is the stats restoring healer/supporter so the stamplar could be more of an debuffer instead, I mean he already got power of the light ...
Changing two skills wouldn't be enough but you could wait for more feedback on how to change some passives and other skills to fit that idea and give stamplars their own unique way ...Edited by ChRiS_the_GaMeR on January 11, 2017 2:20PM0 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭
We will find out next week. I hope for the best but won't be surprised by worst scenario, sadly.@Cinbri - i see now what you mean.
Question is - will they make Luminous worthwhile or will they just follow the trend and nerf Blazing even more in order to make Luminous a more "appealing" morph?
It just seems that they go at these changes in a very backwards way, hence my resentment for them removing the stun on Blazing without providing anything else to make up for the loss.
Meanwhile, does anyone from NA can confirm that Engine no longer repentable? It seems unreasonble nerf and big hit for stamplars.
Yeah, Engine specifically is not repentable
We just tested this now.
We tried to see that even if you are fast enough with the Repent, maybe you can get one in (like how on the Skeletal colossus you can sometimes quickly repent the mini-skellies he summons right before they disappear) , but he just disappears immediately.
Besides, even if it was like that, it would be too unreliable in a quick-paced PvP encounter to be worth it.2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bovardjeff_ESO wrote: »@templesus
You should re-read my post i dont like either of those terms because I AM NEITHER. I am fine with all my abilities HOWEVER, stamina does not have the ease of magicka return because
A. My regen goes out the window when i start to block.
B. Magicka has wayyy more ways to get return and reduce overall cost i.e: honor the dead is one such and with certain cp passive i get way more magicka back during a fight. not to mention my magicka regeneration never stops.
PLEASE leave the term stamplar or magplar out of this, i dont like stamina morphs because they always get the better of the two morph abilities so you get placated and then im left with nothing but terrible morphs (i.e aurora javelin)
Better morphs? You're joking right...do you even know anything about stamplars? Biting jabs is BY FAR worse then puncturing sweeps in terms of hitting people and cost and crit vs being healed per damage done, binding javelin is far worse then aurora javelin, all it does is become a Stam morph that misses all the time and is way to expenaive vs aurora getting more damage, POTL is just horrendous as it is. Just leave the forums with your toxicity, statements like "don't give stamina any more morphs" is completely detrimental to the Templar class and even the game as a whole by effectively segregating stamplars from there own skill lines and forcing them to become a copycat of every other Stam class.4 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭Can we talk about Templars in heavy armor for PvP why is it I can sustain and be such a tanky person and we not get changes to Heavy Armor Skill Line
It's to easy for Templars to slap on 5 Heavy and have solid dps or healing in this game.
We should sacrifice dps or healing or sustain if we put on Heavy...make us wear light armor for best performance!
Heavy armor gives Templars such an advantage in every situation.
PvP setups
Tank setup 5 Black Rose 5 Reactive 2 Malubeth
Healer setup 5 transmutation 5 Kags/Seducer/Most things work with Monster sets
DPS setup 5 Kags 5VD/Rattlecage with Monster sets.
Why are Templars so good with any setup in Heavy Armor in any role? This isn't balance this is making Templars the dominant class for PvP.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
Please tone down Heavy Armor Templars specifically through Heavy Armor Passives we don't need Mag sustain in Heaven Armor or Wrath for more dps. Remove it....please 8)
It's fine on magplars, I can tell you don't play one from what you're saying. If they can healbot tank anyone they will hit so little they can't even kill skeevers.
Yea, a healing recieved buff works well on a class having a whole skill line dedicated to healing. Working as intended.0 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »Heavy isn't the issue.
Hell BOL being as strong as it is isn't even the issue.
BOL being a 28 meter find-the-lowest-hp-dude-who-made-mistakes-and-heal-him-to-full-whilst-faced-the-completely-opposite-direction is the issue. AKA smart heal. Nerfing BOL to have a conal search pattern instead of a massive giant circular radius would be the proper fix for BOL spamming magplars. This is why BOL has invalidated other magicka heals in PVP - because the skill literally takes ZERO tactical or situational awareness to utilize. Just button mash and heal the right people.
Oh boy, please give me that buff. It's frustrating as hell when you're low on health and the BoL heals some random I don't even see.0 -
booksmcread✭✭✭✭Blackfyre20 wrote: »Would switching luminous to an AOE stun instead of a disorient make it too OP? Take the damage off it, whatever, magplars need hard CC though. Just an idea. @ZOS_RichLambert stated we now have a choice between damage and a disorient/more resources but neither is really viable for PVP, especially not solo play since the benefit from the synergy is non-existent. As demonstrated, the disorient on luminous is worthless.
If Luminous were an AoE stun instead of a disorient, it would make it a much more appealing option. I would actually have to think about which morph I would want. Damage with DoT or Damage with AoE CC. This would also give Templars the AoE CC they have been lacking for a long time.1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Heavy isn't the issue.
Hell BOL being as strong as it is isn't even the issue.
BOL being a 28 meter find-the-lowest-hp-dude-who-made-mistakes-and-heal-him-to-full-whilst-faced-the-completely-opposite-direction is the issue. AKA smart heal. Nerfing BOL to have a conal search pattern instead of a massive giant circular radius would be the proper fix for BOL spamming magplars. This is why BOL has invalidated other magicka heals in PVP - because the skill literally takes ZERO tactical or situational awareness to utilize. Just button mash and heal the right people.
Oh boy, please give me that buff. It's frustrating as hell when you're low on health and the BoL heals some random I don't even see.
That bothers me as well. Again, this recommendation isn't to nerf templars as much as it is to prevent straight up raid healbotting.0331
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MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Heavy isn't the issue.
Hell BOL being as strong as it is isn't even the issue.
BOL being a 28 meter find-the-lowest-hp-dude-who-made-mistakes-and-heal-him-to-full-whilst-faced-the-completely-opposite-direction is the issue. AKA smart heal. Nerfing BOL to have a conal search pattern instead of a massive giant circular radius would be the proper fix for BOL spamming magplars. This is why BOL has invalidated other magicka heals in PVP - because the skill literally takes ZERO tactical or situational awareness to utilize. Just button mash and heal the right people.
Oh boy, please give me that buff. It's frustrating as hell when you're low on health and the BoL heals some random I don't even see.
That bothers me as well. Again, this recommendation isn't to nerf templars as much as it is to prevent straight up raid healbotting.
Yea, I've died plenty of times when I had like 10% HP left and it chooses to heal someone else with more HP than me. I would actually like this change as long as I don't have to turn my whole character like you need to with sweeps. Or make it a toggle in the options to disable smart heals and make it a targeted one. That way everyone is happy.0 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerHey guys, thanks for all your feedback on the Templar changes so far. Just wanted to let you all know that we do have a number of adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and we'll be sharing some of these changes later this week once we wrap everything up. Please continue to provide feedback and bug reports as you're able to test the class - we appreciate it!10 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, thanks for all your feedback on the Templar changes so far. Just wanted to let you all know that we do have a number of adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and we'll be sharing some of these changes later this week once we wrap everything up. Please continue to provide feedback and bug reports as you're able to test the class - we appreciate it!
Awesome!
Thanks for letting us know.0 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, thanks for all your feedback on the Templar changes so far. Just wanted to let you all know that we do have a number of adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and we'll be sharing some of these changes later this week once we wrap everything up. Please continue to provide feedback and bug reports as you're able to test the class - we appreciate it!
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF STAMPLAR NOTES0331
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ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭inb4 "Reduced jabs cost by 0.63%" - Stamplar balanced.Edited by ManDraKE on January 11, 2017 8:24PM7 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys, thanks for all your feedback on the Templar changes so far. Just wanted to let you all know that we do have a number of adjustments planned for next week's PTS patch, and we'll be sharing some of these changes later this week once we wrap everything up. Please continue to provide feedback and bug reports as you're able to test the class - we appreciate it!
Thank you for taking the time to reply. We really do appreciate it.0 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭inb4 "Reduced jabs cost by 0.63%" - Stamplar balanced.
I think problem with Stamplar is that there are a whopping 6 melee builds in PvE:- Magicka DK
- Stamina DK
- Stamina NB
- Stamina Sorc
- Magicka Templar
- Stamina Templar
Bow alone is not competitive Trials DPS for any stamina class. And melee skills like Whip and Standard for magicka DK and Sweeps for magicka Templar are key parts of rotation. It is hard to take those builds out of melee range and remain effective. With nerf to Radiant Destruction, Templar is even more tied to melee. You can no longer drop back 20m and spam RD for last half of fight. You will likely have to do normal rotation more and execute rotation less to get best magicka Templar DPS in Update 13.
Plus, Trials mechanics generally punish having too many players near each other. So there are only a limited number of melee spots in a Trials group, meaning Stamplar has a lot of competition for very few spots. Even modest buffs to Stamplars might not be enough. You can't just make Stamplar better. You need to be competitive with all those other melee classes.
In other words, does Stamplar have problems? Yes. But mechanics that force players to spread out when 75% of PvE DPS builds need to be in melee range is a problem, too. Not the mechanics. I don't want simplistic mechanics that let you bring 8 or 9 melee DPS and just stack and burn bosses. I do want more viable ranged builds, though. Bow, in particular. That is probably a whole other discussion, but it does affect Templar.2 -
Lore_lai✭✭✭✭✭To all the people suggesting BoL have a frontal search pattern (I imagine you mean like Combat Prayer) - then please tell me how will it be better than said Combat Prayer/Blessing of Restoration?
You want to combat raid Healbots? Healbots will healbot just as well if you turn BoL into that. And BoL will be vastly inferior.
BoL only heals 2 people - if it's going to be like that then why would they choose to heal with it when they can use Combat Prayer and heal more people, give minor armor/spell buff and give Minor Berserk?0 -
Thal✭✭✭Not to put words into anyone's mouths, but I believe Gilliam said the dual wield passive is no longer working for magic damage. Any word if that's an intended change or something that snuck through in PTS1?0
