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• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 2, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 3, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
PVP Update, June 2015
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paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Forward camps are still needing some UI tweaks and heavy testing before being brought back and in case anyone needs a refresher, they'd come back with a smaller respawn radius (keep sized), can only respawn within the radius if you die in the radius, and would have a global cooldown on when you can respawn at ANY forward camp.
Could you clarify what the last part means? I hope that that doesn't mean that one would be able to spawn at a camp in which circle you are not in, I think that making it so you can only spawn at them if you died in its area is enough, that and make it so that camps can't overlap their areas.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We have talked about removing the ability to respawn in enemy controlled keeps if they are not connected to a transit line, but hasn't gotten any traction other than discussions at the moment.
Here is also a suggestion about keep spawning. Give the keeps their own area, like the camps and make it so you can only spawn at the cyrodiil gates or if you are inside the circle of a keep you can spawn there and any connected keeps to the one which area you are in. That would make it so that if you die next to a keep close to your gate and you have disconnected keeps on the far end of the map you wont be able to spawn at it until its connected to the rest. That would give people more of a strategic advantage if they manage to disconnect a keep from the others. This would also make resources more valuable since you would be able to disconnect keeps by taking the 3 resources next to a keep.
Would also suggest that forward camps could not overlap with the keeps area so that you can't put them inside a keep you are defending. It would defeat the thing where you can't spawn or teleport to a keep under siege.
And lastly, is there a way you guys can make us be able to detect resources under attack quicker? Usually when we see it on the map that is under attack is actually already taken and all NPC's are dead and the flag being captured. A bit of a heads up would be nice.1 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.5 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.Darnathian wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.
Large scale PvP != zerg balling on crown and spamming AoEs.
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
I agree that this would mess up most groups/people for the sole reason that the current purge spam meta is brainless and stupid. Giving a taunt like cooldown would actually distance the better guilds from everyone else if they can figure out how and when to use purge effectively, instead of spamming it constantly to make them almost immune to dots/debuffs. I think it's ridiculous how strong purge is while spammed in a group setting.
I'd much rather play a game where you actually have to think about where and when to use an ability instead of just smashing your hands into the keyboard constantly until the other player(s) die.
Also your first scenario is griefing, as you would have to have people coordinated cross faction to hit you with dots and have someone then purge it off you. Report and move on. It's the same thing as people like the Orc EP DK that streams who spams Vigor and Igneous Shield on groups that stealth around.
Also .5 to 1 second is far too quick, that's basically the same as it is now with people spamming it...make it 3 seconds at least to give negative affects a shot at being useful.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I take it as meaning you can't respawn at any Forward Camp if you have recently respawned at a Forward Camp, even if you are within its radius. If you haven't respawned at a Forward Camp recently, then you can respawn at one but only if you are within its radius.paulsimonps wrote: »
Could you clarify what the last part means? I hope that that doesn't mean that one would be able to spawn at a camp in which circle you are not in, I think that making it so you can only spawn at them if you died in its area is enough, that and make it so that camps can't overlap their areas.ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »Forward camps are still needing some UI tweaks and heavy testing before being brought back and in case anyone needs a refresher, they'd come back with a smaller respawn radius (keep sized), can only respawn within the radius if you die in the radius, and would have a global cooldown on when you can respawn at ANY forward camp.
I think the only way that could work is if Resource capping took longer and involved more stages than just sitting on the flag; eg by putting the flag in the tower so you first need to siege the tower. Then the UA notification would be when the tower goes to 50% rather than when the enemy are already swarming the flag..
And lastly, is there a way you guys can make us be able to detect resources under attack quicker? Usually when we see it on the map that is under attack is actually already taken and all NPC's are dead and the flag being captured. A bit of a heads up would be nice.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
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kaorunandrak✭✭✭After reading the upcoming pvp changes posted to the forum I have found my self in full agreement of the path chosen while still a bit disappointed about having to go down that path. I'm talking of course of the upcoming removal of the passive bonuses outside of pvp.
I know many in the pvp community have long wanted the removal of these buffs and I too cheer for the end of "buff servers", as a DAoC Veteran I know how much of a draw those buffs can be for people to earn for their alliance, it just adds another sense of accomplishment to the game.
My long winded question is "What other options were considered to keep the buffs affecting both pvp and pve? Did you guys play around with the idea of making the buff effect the alliance with the most resources over all campaigns? To be clear is it/would it be possible for the buffs to be given to the alliance with the most scrolls/emperors/keeps/outposts/highest total score across all campaigns rather then a by campaign basis?"
So if Ebonheart had more emperors across all campaigns then the Pact would get the emperor bonus as a whole rather then just those players who were part of the campaign that had an EP emperor. I think it would allow you guys to keep the buffs in-game for both pve and pvp while also adding another objective to the over all pvp game as non buffed alliances would push harder across all campaigns to weaken the top alliance. I think that would be the closest to the RvR standard set by DAoC that we could get.Edited by kaorunandrak on June 19, 2015 3:55PMGuild Leader of The Crimson Moon PVE/PVP NA
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Valnas✭✭✭✭kaorunandrak wrote: »After reading the upcoming pvp changes posted to the forum I have found my self in full agreement of the path chosen while still a bit disappointed about having to go down that path. I'm talking of course of the upcoming removal of the passive bonuses outside of pvp.
I know many in the pvp community have long wanted the removal of these buffs and I too cheer for the end of "buff servers", as a DAoC Veteran I know how much of a draw those buffs can be for people to earn for their alliance, it just adds another sense of accomplishment to the game.
My long winded question is "What other options were considered to keep the buffs affecting both pvp and pve? Did you guys play around with the idea of making the buff effect the alliance with the most resources over all campaigns? To be clear is it/would it be possible for the buffs to be given to the alliance with the most scrolls/emperors/keeps/outposts/highest total score across all campaigns rather then a by campaign basis?"
So if Ebonheart had more emperors across all campaigns then the Pact would get the emperor bonus as a whole rather then just those players who were part of the campaign that had an EP emperor. I think it would allow you guys to keep the buffs in-game for both pve and pvp while also adding another objective to the over all pvp game as non buffed alliances would push harder across all campaigns to weaken the top alliance. I think that would be the closest to the RvR standard set by DAoC that we could get.
This would encourage all PVE'ers to roll 1 faction. The whole pve buffs from pvp perpetuates the population imbalance. If anything the losing side should get pve buffs to xp (vet lvl only, not cp gain) to encourage people to reroll that faction if they actually care about pvp.
Fluph Head EP sorc dank magus
valnäs EP nb
opHotterslol AD dk0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭kaorunandrak wrote: »After reading the upcoming pvp changes posted to the forum I have found my self in full agreement of the path chosen while still a bit disappointed about having to go down that path. I'm talking of course of the upcoming removal of the passive bonuses outside of pvp.
I know many in the pvp community have long wanted the removal of these buffs and I too cheer for the end of "buff servers", as a DAoC Veteran I know how much of a draw those buffs can be for people to earn for their alliance, it just adds another sense of accomplishment to the game.
My long winded question is "What other options were considered to keep the buffs affecting both pvp and pve? Did you guys play around with the idea of making the buff effect the alliance with the most resources over all campaigns? To be clear is it/would it be possible for the buffs to be given to the alliance with the most scrolls/emperors/keeps/outposts/highest total score across all campaigns rather then a by campaign basis?"
So if Ebonheart had more emperors across all campaigns then the Pact would get the emperor bonus as a whole rather then just those players who were part of the campaign that had an EP emperor. I think it would allow you guys to keep the buffs in-game for both pve and pvp while also adding another objective to the over all pvp game as non buffed alliances would push harder across all campaigns to weaken the top alliance. I think that would be the closest to the RvR standard set by DAoC that we could get.
That would give far too great an incentive to campaign hop, which is what they are trying to get rid of. You would have the large guilds running around to help keep a majority lead on the campaigns so that they can keep their PvE buffs, which ruins the spirit of PvP.
A better way to do it would only allow the PvP buffs related to owning your own keeps/resources/scroll apply, instead of owning enemy objectives. This would make it so that there is no incentive or benefit in PvE for completely rolling an entire map into a buff campaign which kills the PvP environment.Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Large groups have a number of advantages, but I don't take it as a given that they should be 'nerfed.' Group play is generally a good thing. It seems unreasonable to think that a group of four should have anything close to even odds against a group of twelve.
That said, the AoE damage cap should be removed. A full raid has plenty of advantages over its foes. It does not need significant damage mitigation simply because of its size.
Edited by Snit on June 19, 2015 4:03PMSnit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade6 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Im telling you the solution is:
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice Leave the base Purge Skill alone.
If you die to a Catapult itself that, that does very little damage, then you should probably quit playing the game.
What does this do?
It means that zergblob can be keep 70% snared 100% of the time. it also means a very substantial healing debuff can be kept on them 100% of the time....now your Fire Ballista's and other siege will be capable of countering/killing them without making siege a one shot cannon. as now their groups healers healing effectiveness has been substaintailly weakened.
Nerfing or messing with the base Purge skill will make the skill useless. any kind of cool down or cast time, and its simply not feasible to use it...
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice. You are not giving just anyone a one shot cannon, but what you are doing is giving a smaller organized group, any organized group for that matter, a chance to defend against a zerg and actually make defending a keep viable without a zerg of equal size.
this is the only viable alternative to nerfing purge. the problem here is it originally was not purgable.. then ZOS changed it to make it Purgable.. Old meta had defenders stacking them and spamming them on people going in, which current meta would just see the blob moving through with rapid and barrier. Meatbags would be much more effective vs current meta, at least as long as the blob is slow to use barrier. i do agree that making meatbags unpurgable would be a global punishment tho. but i would accept being unable to heal myself like normal if it stops blobs
I also think that scattershot catapults should have a 1-1.5 second knockdown... on their radius it would be enough that a single person with a timed shot could stop the movement of a blob.. the damage is so minor from Scattershot that once people realize its a scattershot they dont bother dodging anymore.
Honestly we need to be able to CC blobs. the reason i push for a Purge nerf is because it completetly takes CC out of the equation when blobs are involved.
No one in their right mind stands in siege... blobs just get away with it.. nerfing purge would not even be a lasting change... blobs would adapt pretty fast in the end.
Hearing people try and defend blobs at this point reminds me of people who defended old Vr10 batswarming and other things ZOS has nerfed..
also... south park...I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭
There is at least two in there...did you even read his post?Jadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)0 -
Zhoyzu✭✭✭✭✭lottasay_ESO wrote: »ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »We have no plans for Battlegrounds or Arenas at this time with "flag matches" or death-match mechanics, however our play-tests of a certain zone that resides in the center of Cyrodiil has scratched a very specific itch...
@ZOS_BrianWheeler Why? This should be a top priority if you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase.... I myself played WoW for 6 years and play it very much on PC. I feel that ESO can become the premier console MMO if they include all the expectations that come with ex-PC MMO players.
If you want to appeal to the World of Warcraft fanbase? Why on earth would they do a silly thing like that? Every game that tried to be an WoW copy failed. ESO is ESO. Unique.
Keep arenas out of ESO, please.
Precisely. A lot of us came to ESO to get away from WoW. Making another WoW reskin is a sure way to lose a lot of subscribers. If WoW was so great, we'd still be playing it.
And yet the vast majority of Hard-core PvPers are and have been begging for Dueling and Arenas....
They came to the game knowing there wasn't arena. Don't walk into Burger King and complain they don't have tacos. This game was advertised as AvA. That's where I would like their focus to be.
This right here.
If you really want duels then join the dueling guild. problem solved, you're welcome.Zhoyzu - Nightblade Alchemist (v15) RETIRED
Has-No-Heart - Templar Enchanter (v4) FUBAR
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Creator of Khajiit fall dmg reduction racial passive concept.4 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.
This goes hand in hand with the 'we are playing the game the way its meant to be played' line. The game wasnt meant to lag out and freeze for 5-10mins. Sure, it is ZOSs fault and @ZOS_BrianWheeler for giving us this environment, but so are a lot of other issues that we dont excuse. Its the zergballs fault for knowingly playing in this fashion because theyre unwilling or unable to play any other style.
1) @ZOS_BrianWheeler says hes working on performance and there isnt much else we can do there. Dont think the LOS checks will 'fix' lag at all, may have a significant help in things though (we can hope?). Spending too much time on issues that dont resolve the problem may have another significant impact to the PVP population. Best solution would be to institute changes that impact how these fights flow rather than trying to fix bad fight scenarios.
2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.2 -
Gizit✭✭✭
Meh now that you mention it, i honestly only read the interesting parts. the rest of it was long winded and overall uneventful.
BRING BACK PVP IN THE FORUMS ZOS!I do the things! for the team, score points! win the day by *** the stuff! HELL yeah!2 -
VirtualElizabeth✭✭✭✭I am a part of a very large casual social guild which has a nice mix of those who are either solely pve focused and those who like both pve and pvp equally. With that being said, I always disliked this idea of buff servers. Sure it was nice to have a spot to do the cyrodiil dailies. Now by no means am I a hardcore pvper, but frankly I do not like the idea of a person/group with no interest in pvp impacting my pvp experience, period. I am glad to see this mode of pvp campaign going away.
Bye bye Buff Servers and don't let the door kick you in the....behind.
Edited by VirtualElizabeth on June 19, 2015 5:35PM@ElizabethInTamriel; @ElizabethInESO
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Elise Masterham - Breton Magicka Nightblade
Elinora Valen - Dunmer MagDK
Elsa Masterham - Breton Mag Warden3 -
timtbag123ub17_ESOSoul ShrivenI think they should add something like Oblivion's Imperial City arena! And people can also bet on the contestants! it would be amazing to have a full crowd watching while your battling to the death in the arena.1
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ZOS_JessicaFolsomCommunity Manager2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.
Please keep in mind, anything related to abilities, skill lines, combat, and the balance thereof does not fall under Brian's or the PVP team's purview. That's the Combat team. They do work closely together, but they're different teams who have completely different responsibilities.
Edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on June 19, 2015 5:53PM10 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
[snip]Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Im telling you the solution is:
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice Leave the base Purge Skill alone.
If you die to a Catapult itself that, that does very little damage, then you should probably quit playing the game.
What does this do?
It means that zergblob can be keep 70% snared 100% of the time. it also means a very substantial healing debuff can be kept on them 100% of the time....now your Fire Ballista's and other siege will be capable of countering/killing them without making siege a one shot cannon. as now their groups healers healing effectiveness has been substaintailly weakened.
Nerfing or messing with the base Purge skill will make the skill useless. any kind of cool down or cast time, and its simply not feasible to use it...
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice. You are not giving just anyone a one shot cannon, but what you are doing is giving a smaller organized group, any organized group for that matter, a chance to defend against a zerg and actually make defending a keep viable without a zerg of equal size.
this is the only viable alternative to nerfing purge. the problem here is it originally was not purgable.. then ZOS changed it to make it Purgable.. Old meta had defenders stacking them and spamming them on people going in, which current meta would just see the blob moving through with rapid and barrier. Meatbags would be much more effective vs current meta, at least as long as the blob is slow to use barrier. i do agree that making meatbags unpurgable would be a global punishment tho. but i would accept being unable to heal myself like normal if it stops blobs
I also think that scattershot catapults should have a 1-1.5 second knockdown... on their radius it would be enough that a single person with a timed shot could stop the movement of a blob.. the damage is so minor from Scattershot that once people realize its a scattershot they dont bother dodging anymore.
Honestly we need to be able to CC blobs. the reason i push for a Purge nerf is because it completetly takes CC out of the equation when blobs are involved.
No one in their right mind stands in siege... blobs just get away with it.. nerfing purge would not even be a lasting change... blobs would adapt pretty fast in the end.
Hearing people try and defend blobs at this point reminds me of people who defended old Vr10 batswarming and other things ZOS has nerfed..
also... south park...
Again... reverting oil cata is the worst idea brought up in this thread. The current meta would not see a blob run through with rapid and barriers, it would see them with an almost permanent 70% snare while they have multiple oils and fire ballistas hitting them. You might as well ask everyone to RP walk around cyrodiil because that's what happened when people figured that out.
You can't revert Meatbag either, otherwise I can't play the game the way I want to play since healing becomes completely ineffectual. That's why it was changed in the first place.
The third worst idea brought up in this thread is that purge should be nerfed because people spam it to remove debuffs. Newsflash? People spam EVERY ability. Nerf purge and I'm snared 95% of my pvp time because some DK can spam talons to his hearts content while I can't do a damn thing about it. We're on an even playing field right now. I can be debuffed just as fast as I can spend a large amount of resources to clear them.
Also, siege is a tool to help you, not an I WIN button. Siege is devastating when you actually use it correctly, even against large groups.
[edited for trolling]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 19, 2023 7:21PM3 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.
Please keep in mind, anything related to abilities, skill lines, combat, and the balance thereof does not fall under Brian's or the PVP team's purview. That's the Combat team. They do work closely together, but they're different teams who have completely different responsibilities.
Yep... Brian takes extra heat because he's a bit more visible. That combat team stays both stealthed and out of line-of-sight for regular players
Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade9 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Dude you just have no clue to be honest.
Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..
There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.
You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).
Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.
If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.
Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't
EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.
Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.
Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.
As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.
If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.
Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.
WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."
What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.
Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.
[snip]Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »if you dont take some bad you will get no good..
this is a major issue,Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »
Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)
What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?
Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.
Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice
Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it
the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.
I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.
A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.
Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.
Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.
because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..
5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.
Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.
Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.
people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.
as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"
if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...
right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.
a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming
one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.
Im telling you the solution is:
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice Leave the base Purge Skill alone.
If you die to a Catapult itself that, that does very little damage, then you should probably quit playing the game.
What does this do?
It means that zergblob can be keep 70% snared 100% of the time. it also means a very substantial healing debuff can be kept on them 100% of the time....now your Fire Ballista's and other siege will be capable of countering/killing them without making siege a one shot cannon. as now their groups healers healing effectiveness has been substaintailly weakened.
Nerfing or messing with the base Purge skill will make the skill useless. any kind of cool down or cast time, and its simply not feasible to use it...
Oil Catapualts and Meatbags no longer Purgeable, Meatbag Heal Debuff can stack twice. You are not giving just anyone a one shot cannon, but what you are doing is giving a smaller organized group, any organized group for that matter, a chance to defend against a zerg and actually make defending a keep viable without a zerg of equal size.
this is the only viable alternative to nerfing purge. the problem here is it originally was not purgable.. then ZOS changed it to make it Purgable.. Old meta had defenders stacking them and spamming them on people going in, which current meta would just see the blob moving through with rapid and barrier. Meatbags would be much more effective vs current meta, at least as long as the blob is slow to use barrier. i do agree that making meatbags unpurgable would be a global punishment tho. but i would accept being unable to heal myself like normal if it stops blobs
I also think that scattershot catapults should have a 1-1.5 second knockdown... on their radius it would be enough that a single person with a timed shot could stop the movement of a blob.. the damage is so minor from Scattershot that once people realize its a scattershot they dont bother dodging anymore.
Honestly we need to be able to CC blobs. the reason i push for a Purge nerf is because it completetly takes CC out of the equation when blobs are involved.
No one in their right mind stands in siege... blobs just get away with it.. nerfing purge would not even be a lasting change... blobs would adapt pretty fast in the end.
Hearing people try and defend blobs at this point reminds me of people who defended old Vr10 batswarming and other things ZOS has nerfed..
also... south park...
Again... reverting oil cata is the worst idea brought up in this thread. The current meta would not see a blob run through with rapid and barriers, it would see them with an almost permanent 70% snare while they have multiple oils and fire ballistas hitting them. You might as well ask everyone to RP walk around cyrodiil because that's what happened when people figured that out.
You can't revert Meatbag either, otherwise I can't play the game the way I want to play since healing becomes completely ineffectual. That's why it was changed in the first place.
The third worst idea brought up in this thread is that purge should be nerfed because people spam it to remove debuffs. Newsflash? People spam EVERY ability. Nerf purge and I'm snared 95% of my pvp time because some DK can spam talons to his hearts content while I can't do a damn thing about it. We're on an even playing field right now. I can be debuffed just as fast as I can spend a large amount of resources to clear them.
Also, siege is a tool to help you, not an I WIN button. Siege is devastating when you actually use it correctly, even against large groups.
There have been numerous people in this thread (and others) that, in the vilification of group play, seem to be grasping for a way to be given for some form of an instant I Win button against the larger groups.
The reasoning being that "everyone knows" that all large groups cause lag, which is bad, so anything that destroys them (no matter how utterly imbalanced it is) is good. There's nary a thought for how this would destroy game balance.
And, frankly, with the amount of obvious contempt that some of the players that prefer solo and small group play are throwing at the large group players, I really don't think they care. So long as they got to zergbust and feel like gods astride a field of bodies.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 19, 2023 7:22PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!8 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭lets be realistic... even if you could not purge Seige at all... people would adapt just as readily as they did the to sudden increase in the Seige damage.
Siege alone will never be the "I-win" button.. but in its current state its nearly a waste of time and AP to use siege on a blob.
all for fairness yet people are blatantly defending tactics that clearly grant a overwhelming advantage.
everything must have a counter.. solo play needs a counter vs group play.
zergs need a way to deal with blobs just as blobs can deal with zergs..
otherwise you have a playing field where only those that blob are getting anything done and those that dont are left in the dust...
eventually all you are left with is a few blobs... then what? blobs almost never willingly deal with other blobs... heck blobs seem to mostly just fight against zergs because they know its a easy win...
eventually the blobs wont want to play because the better blob will keep winning... then there is no one playing....
its a downward spiral that has to have a counter or this game will die.I play every class in every situation. I love them all.3 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.
The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.Edited by c0rp on June 19, 2015 6:46PMForce weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.4 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭i do think that the way they changed the cap was stupid... its no better than it was when the cap was just 6...
[snip]
well we called it right ZOS.... that plan utterly failed.
[edited for minor bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 19, 2023 7:23PMI play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
cozmon3c_ESO✭✭✭✭✭AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.
The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.
OMG it will help with lag too, why didnt they think of this, no caps means no second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth. damn calculations becaus the third hit hits these guys for 60% and the 6th hit hits theys guys for 30%. it will all register full damage 1 time, zomg the humanity.
could the fix to this lag really be as simple as that. what!!!!!! wow. epiphany for the combat team. can they do it, can they pull it off. will they end the lag?Guild UMBRA Chapter Lead
~Leper Si -V14 Sorcerer~
Youtube Channel - Leper
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCozmon3c/videos0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Again... reverting oil cata is the worst idea brought up in this thread. The current meta would not see a blob run through with rapid and barriers, it would see them with an almost permanent 70% snare while they have multiple oils and fire ballistas hitting them. You might as well ask everyone to RP walk around cyrodiil because that's what happened when people figured that out.
You can't revert Meatbag either, otherwise I can't play the game the way I want to play since healing becomes completely ineffectual. That's why it was changed in the first place.
The third worst idea brought up in this thread is that purge should be nerfed because people spam it to remove debuffs. Newsflash? People spam EVERY ability. Nerf purge and I'm snared 95% of my pvp time because some DK can spam talons to his hearts content while I can't do a damn thing about it. We're on an even playing field right now. I can be debuffed just as fast as I can spend a large amount of resources to clear them.
Also, siege is a tool to help you, not an I WIN button. Siege is devastating when you actually use it correctly, even against large groups.
Post of the month award goes to @Manoekin, with a close second made by Mr. @Snit! We're only a bit under half of the month left, but I think this race is already decided
.ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Please keep in mind, anything related to abilities, skill lines, combat, and the balance thereof does not fall under Brian's or the PVP team's purview. That's the Combat team. They do work closely together, but they're different teams who have completely different responsibilities.
Yep... Brian takes extra heat because he's a bit more visible. That combat team stays both stealthed and out of line-of-sight for regular players
-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.
The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.
Wouldn't change it one lick with organized groups. Sieging an organized enemy already set up to bubble/heal/cleanse stuff off inside and jostle around the edges your siege isn't hitting doesn't do much now, nor would it later. AOE heals would counter AOE damage just as well as it does now with caps removed on both 
. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.0 -
Takllin✭✭✭✭✭AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.
The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.
I think this is the issue at heart that would fix a lot of people's complaints about the zergs winning. They lowered the amount of skill needed to succeed in large group play, and made it more of a numbers game than before.
I thought it was stupid the way they got rid of the AoE cap as this system only requires more messaging between the client(s) and server. I'd love to see them completely remove it and have no cap.Edited by Takllin on June 19, 2015 7:01PMJadokis - AD Redguard DK v16 AR 18
Jàsènn - AD Orc Templar 47 AR 10
Jessèn - AD Dunmer DK v16 AR 9 - Former Empress of Blackwater Blade
Tekllin - AD Altmer Sorcerer v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Tekklin - AD Bosmer Nightblade v16 AR 12 (Ret.)
Jasenn - DC Imperial Templar v16 AR 18 (Ret.)
Jasènn - DC Orc Sorcerer v16 AR 15 (Ret.)2 -
Komma✭✭✭✭✭What may seem like balance for pvp could cause a whole revamp of pve encounters. Pvp is not the only aspect of this game. What they need to do is have a different set of rules for aoe's while in cyrodiil. Remove the aoe cap completely and reduce dmg taken from aoe by 25%? or maybe even more while in cyrodiil. They could reduce all dmg done in pvp by 25% for all i care.Kohma Kozzy-cr160-Stamblade
Komma-cr160-Magicblade
Komma the Great-cr160-Stam DK
Kommah-cr160-Mag DK
Komma Kozzy-cr160-Mag Templar
Kommuh Kozzy-cr160-Stam Templar
Komma the White-cr160-Mag Sorc
The Tazmanian Devil-cr160-Stamsorc
OTG1 -
BossTuggles✭✭✭AoE cap was ridiculously dumb when they implemented it. I dont understand how you can argue this point.Like a Boss!1