PVP Update, June 2015

Manoekin

wanderlustx5 wrote: »

As expected another thread which started out great has degenerated into EP vs AD vs DC discussion. The solution is simple for the zerg problem, nerf heals and purges. The good players will still be fine. The people who run in a ball and only know to spam two skills wont. Nerf healing springs and put a cool down or massive cost increase on purge. Nerf number of players affected. At this point everything else has been nerfed to death except siege, its about time the endless heals is countered and meat bags and debuffs worked again. When two blobs meet what happens to everyone is massive lag, inability for most abilitys to process, and basicly bad pvp. AOE cap removal will do nothing as the zergs primary weapon is aoe, it will just make lag worse as the server has to process more hits of the aoe and make the zerg stronger.

No.

AOE cap removal is a step in the right direction IMO. You're never hitting 60 players anyway, so the game will not calculate more hits of AOE than it already does. All it will do is make it easier to kill a large group of people stacked on the crown. If anything, I hope they bring back uncapped ultimates. I miss the days when a single nova would destroy a raid that stood still.

I think we need a FAQ sticky thread dispelling all of the noob myths or something. It's probably long overdue.

Lava_Croft

The Uninvited wrote: »

Nerf healing springs? How about pve then?

Ask in the PvE section.

FENGRUSH

Manoekin wrote: »

wanderlustx5 wrote: »

As expected another thread which started out great has degenerated into EP vs AD vs DC discussion. The solution is simple for the zerg problem, nerf heals and purges. The good players will still be fine. The people who run in a ball and only know to spam two skills wont. Nerf healing springs and put a cool down or massive cost increase on purge. Nerf number of players affected. At this point everything else has been nerfed to death except siege, its about time the endless heals is countered and meat bags and debuffs worked again. When two blobs meet what happens to everyone is massive lag, inability for most abilitys to process, and basicly bad pvp. AOE cap removal will do nothing as the zergs primary weapon is aoe, it will just make lag worse as the server has to process more hits of the aoe and make the zerg stronger.

No.

AOE cap removal is a step in the right direction IMO. You're never hitting 60 players anyway, so the game will not calculate more hits of AOE than it already does. All it will do is make it easier to kill a large group of people stacked on the crown. If anything, I hope they bring back uncapped ultimates. I miss the days when a single nova would destroy a raid that stood still.

I think we need a FAQ sticky thread dispelling all of the noob myths or something. It's probably long overdue.

Yes. This game was so good when it was first released without AOE caps. Agrippa is having flashbacks already of FENGRUSH and 2 others wiping out 20+ hijinx groups. Theres a reason these guys come to the boards to sling insults when the 'meta is zerging' rather than offer the nonexistant reasons of why we should keep the current lagging/zerging environment in cyro.

This is now a remove AOE caps thread.

wanderlustx5

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

wanderlustx5 wrote: »

As expected another thread which started out great has degenerated into EP vs AD vs DC discussion. The solution is simple for the zerg problem, nerf heals and purges. The good players will still be fine. The people who run in a ball and only know to spam two skills wont. Nerf healing springs and put a cool down or massive cost increase on purge. Nerf number of players affected. At this point everything else has been nerfed to death except siege, its about time the endless heals is countered and meat bags and debuffs worked again. When two blobs meet what happens to everyone is massive lag, inability for most abilitys to process, and basicly bad pvp. AOE cap removal will do nothing as the zergs primary weapon is aoe, it will just make lag worse as the server has to process more hits of the aoe and make the zerg stronger.

No.

AOE cap removal is a step in the right direction IMO. You're never hitting 60 players anyway, so the game will not calculate more hits of AOE than it already does. All it will do is make it easier to kill a large group of people stacked on the crown. If anything, I hope they bring back uncapped ultimates. I miss the days when a single nova would destroy a raid that stood still.

I think we need a FAQ sticky thread dispelling all of the noob myths or something. It's probably long overdue.

Yes. This game was so good when it was first released without AOE caps. Agrippa is having flashbacks already of FENGRUSH and 2 others wiping out 20+ hijinx groups. Theres a reason these guys come to the boards to sling insults when the 'meta is zerging' rather than offer the nonexistant reasons of why we should keep the current lagging/zerging environment in cyro.

This is now a remove AOE caps thread.

Whos slinging insults, not a troll,its a real question, im really asking? Also someone explain to me why a 24-40 man zerg all using aoe will be less effective if the caps are removed? Seems like they will just roll over everything even faster since all they spam is aoe attacks and heals. It also doesn't help that the aoes go in all directions instead of cones, they dont even have to take time to target, they just roll over things spamming. No skill in that other then running back and forth in a ball.

Lets review what an organized zerg does before they run in huh? 1) rapid, 2) barrier, 3) repeat purges continuously, 4) healing springs on the zerg ball, 5) whirlwind, pulsar / elemental ring, and sometime bat swarm and repeat negates, tallons. rinse repeat while running back and forth. all aoe.

Pre 1.6 it was possible to tie them down with a few tanks then focus fire individuals in the zerg from around them while moving away from them. Now its not possible and organized zergs usually dont fall even to multiple siege.

Attorneyatlawl

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.

The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.

OMG it will help with lag too, why didnt they think of this, no caps means no second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth. damn calculations becaus the third hit hits these guys for 60% and the 6th hit hits theys guys for 30%. it will all register full damage 1 time, zomg the humanity.

could the fix to this lag really be as simple as that. what!!!!!! wow. epiphany for the combat team. can they do it, can they pull it off. will they end the lag?

Let's just go ahead and remove all single-target spells and attacks from the game, while we're at it. 12-18 man groups will need them even less than now to wipe down the zerg if they can hit all 100 people for full damage with the aoe's! .

Crown

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

It would be nice to have a pop locked population. You see, I don't have any respect for you, or any of the AD on Azuras Star. You guys are...cheap. Yep, cheap. AD early morning caps when noone is on, runs from a fair fight, and returns with 4:1 or 5:1 advantages to win any fight.

Right - because all of AD coordinates all the time to ensure that we only ever have a zerg and everyone in the campaign is only ever at one keep. Come see zone chat on our side for a while, or I'll invite you to our group leader coordination guild for a night and you can watch group leaders *** at each other over who should be where.

Regarding times, the early morning crew are DIG, and that's their time zone (I believe they're Oceanic). My crew tend to be online from about 3-4pm through 9:30pm when most of us spend time with our families or get ready for bed so that we can work the next morning. After that, it's other guilds. I'm not going to make my guild wait to play so that you're ready to come in and face us when it's convenient for you. We play when we're online. Maybe you need to look back at your own faction and see how many guilds have a group for more than a few hours at a time.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I'm not saying making points is cheating, I'm saying hogging the leaderboards so that no one new can get emp is the exact reason why they're removing former emp buffs. You and your crew make competing for emp not fun, and an overall chore.

We make more points regardless of who is trying for Emp. Do you really think we're going to stop playing and making points because someone isn't going to get the former emp buffs? If so you're more deluded than I had thought. If you play and make points, you can be on the leader boards too. Hogging implies colluding to keep other people off of them.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

You make yourself out to be some martyr, but all I see is choosing the easy server and run from the server with competition.

Incidentally, we have re-homed three times in the past four months looking to leave servers without enough competition or fighting. Again, you seem to think all of AD flies over one banner. Wake up and smell the daffodils.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

" Do you want only one person of each faction to ever be emperor? I certainly don't." <-- made me laugh for about 5 minutes straight. It's apparent you want the same AD crew to be emperor over and over again, or give it to people who DON'T deserve it through nightcapping/early morning capping. I'm not gonna take anything you say seriously about this subject because you're constantly flipping emp for people who don't deserve it through pure zerg.

We had six emperors last reset of Azuras of whom two had never had it before. This reset we've had three of whom one has never had it before, and one changed to a new main and got it for the first time on his main.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

"If DC are trying to get emp, let them come out and fight." That statement really just confirms you are a zerg-friendly AP/emp farmer, and nothing else. DC doesn't help us on Azuras, and when they do from Chillrend, it's usually to troll, and they bring in the enemy groups too. So, you've got 1 major guild on Azuras, and a few less than 12 player groups.

This is obviously my fault, as I am the great commander of AD, I control the location of every single yellow player, and I torture small animals and children in order to intimidate blue to stay away from our home server.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

So please, YOU leave, so DC can come out and fight. "A second group coordinating at different locations on the map and they would have crowned a few times by now." Care to send us a second group there bud?

We all know blue doesn't have enough population on Azuras. Do you really think my crew leaving will change that? I'm willing to give that a test. I've just rehomed to Chillrend. So all you blues out there, now is the time to hit Azuras while the great commander Crown isn't there.

Are they there yet? Did that make a difference? I didn't think so. In another week, I expect you to eat your hat.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

Removing former emp buffs for me WILL change a lot. I have watched the AD leaderboards, the EP leaderboards, and it is very evident groups like you are emp farming. Maybe, just maybe, removing those buffs will deter punks from hogging leaderboards, and even a solo player might get a chance @ emp.

Nope. I'm still going to play, and I'm still going to make more points than you, and based on your attitude in here, you're not the type of person I would gladly drop campaign for, so you're not going to get emp on your AD toon if you're on the same server as most of my crew.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

Ultimately the real problem is, people like you, who have had emp, yet still feel the need to be crowned emp multiple times, and help people who can't cut it on a 1:1 basis get emp.

Since when does duelling mean that you should be emp? The person on top of the leaderboard gets it. If you don't like that, complain to ZOS.

In the event that there are no more passives and no incentive to help other people get emp, why would anyone on top of the leaderboards give up their position? Personally I'd prefer if a good sorc or DK in my group had emp rather than me. As emp I'm in the middle of enemies most of the time, and can't make the directional / action calls as well as if I'm looking in from outside. I want gold rewards (20 odd master's destro staff rewards and not yet a resto) though so unless I have a reason to drop campaign or home elsewhere, I'm not going to. If you don't like that, complain to ZOS.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

I 1v1'd one of the emps you crowned, and I legitimately had to leave the server from laughter. They don't care about the campaign, they care about being emp and the emp passives, or the fancy title. Farming DC @ Warden proves that, because y'all needed a 3:1 ratio to do it. It's a joke, that you can't seem to see.

1v1 builds vs group builds.. NOT the same thing. Most people I run with have group builds. You want to 1v1 me, I'll happily put on my duelling gear and kick your ass. If you find me when I'm in group, I usually run a support build so I'd put my money on you killing me.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

"If you were a new player, and came to me asking to join the guild and group, and asked for my advice on how to achieve Emperor, I would happily spend a few minutes assuring that you're either a competent player and/or able to learn." Is your advice to pop lock a server where DC can only respond with at max 2bars to get emp? That's what it seems like. Real skill there bro.

Again with the lord Crown controlling all of AD thing. I thought reds had the monopoly on that delusion..

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

"or you were one of the ten people that I spent about a half hour killing over and over at Warden yesterday" Do you not even see what you just said? TEN people, and you guys needed a pop locked server. Please, get over yourself, and start thinking about the overall PVP health of this game, and not just you and your guildies.

Actually, I was referring to a 1v10 fight that lasted about a half hour before I jumped down outside and my shade bugged (or maybe I mistimed it) and couldn't get back in. I got about 45 kills on the same 10 people over that time while streaming to a newer group of nightblades and teaching them how to 1vX the way that I enjoy doing so.

FENGRUSH

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

AoE cap needs to be fully, 100% removed from game. I'd really like to see how this one single change, impacts the zerg ball strat.

The fact that a dozen people can stand in a barn and withstand 20 siege firing into the barn all at once without taking losses is lol, I am sorry.

OMG it will help with lag too, why didnt they think of this, no caps means no second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth. damn calculations becaus the third hit hits these guys for 60% and the 6th hit hits theys guys for 30%. it will all register full damage 1 time, zomg the humanity.

could the fix to this lag really be as simple as that. what!!!!!! wow. epiphany for the combat team. can they do it, can they pull it off. will they end the lag?

Let's just go ahead and remove all single-target spells and attacks from the game, while we're at it. 12-18 man groups will need them even less than now to wipe down the zerg if they can hit all 100 people for full damage with the aoe's! .

FENGRUSH does not follow. Are you saying 12-18ppl groups are using single target skills vs 100 people currently because of AOE caps? First of all, why should they be using single target players when theres 100 people? Doesnt that thought seem convoluted already that they should use single target spells against 8x their numbers in this scenario because of aoe caps?

The reality is, its virtually impossible to find 100 people inside range of an AOE. If there are, youd probably want to use AOE right? Its when youre fighting the smaller groups youre going to need that single target stuff.

Why shouldnt AOE hit 100 people if theyre going to crowd into a room? Why cant the 12 people fighting 100 all receive 75% mitigation before damage is factored like the people grossly outnumbering them?

Thats not an ask to nerf large groups. Its an ask to balance the mechanics that give larger groups an advantage over smaller groups - putting aside the fact that they already have the advantage of more numbers.

Darnathian

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

if you dont take some bad you will get no good..

this is a major issue,

WRX wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

What happens when one pug spams purge on you?

You report him for botting.

Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

What happens when one pug spams purge on you?

Make it so that the purge only works if you actually have negative effects removed.

What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?

Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.

Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice

Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it

the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.

I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.

A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.

Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.

Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.

because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..

5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.

Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.

Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.

people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.

as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"

if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...

right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.

a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming

one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.

Dude you just have no clue to be honest.

Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..

There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.

You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).

Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.

If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.

Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't

EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.

Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.

Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.

As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.

If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.

Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.

WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."

What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.

Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.

You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.

This goes hand in hand with the 'we are playing the game the way its meant to be played' line. The game wasnt meant to lag out and freeze for 5-10mins. Sure, it is ZOSs fault and @ZOS_BrianWheeler for giving us this environment, but so are a lot of other issues that we dont excuse. Its the zergballs fault for knowingly playing in this fashion because theyre unwilling or unable to play any other style.

1) @ZOS_BrianWheeler says hes working on performance and there isnt much else we can do there. Dont think the LOS checks will 'fix' lag at all, may have a significant help in things though (we can hope?). Spending too much time on issues that dont resolve the problem may have another significant impact to the PVP population. Best solution would be to institute changes that impact how these fights flow rather than trying to fix bad fight scenarios.

2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.

I understand where you are coming from. I do. But, it starts out with groups. Then the other group will get more people if the wipe. On and on it gets bigger and bigger. The only way right now to counter other bigger groups is to get more yourself. I know some like Havoc hold there own against greater numbers but not the majority of the time. If one side gets a bigger group, then so does the other. That goes for ALL factions, not just EP or AD.

FENGRUSH

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

if you dont take some bad you will get no good..

this is a major issue,

WRX wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

What happens when one pug spams purge on you?

You report him for botting.

Haha I'm sure that'll help (cough.. blink blink... cough)

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

What happens when one pug spams purge on you?

Make it so that the purge only works if you actually have negative effects removed.

What if they purge a burning from fire staffs or any other effect not worthy of being purged with that solution?

Most groups/people would have issues choosing when to purge and when not, so it would mess up better guilds.

Best option Ive seen is make it like power surge (or whatever morph heals) and have it only effect you X amount of seconds. .5 - 1.0 would be nice

Make purge 5s cooldown on the purify but make it a total clearing of all statuses. is that enough? If you dont have a status there is no cooldown is a given. and whats so *** bad about making a group have to think before they purge? that's part of the goal. better than mindlessly spamming. make it like casting barrier, important but requiring timing to make full use out of it

the average blob is purged about ever 0.5 seconds currently... a 0.5 cooldown would do literally nothing for that, and 1s would be almost no improvement since you cast at that rate anyways.. untill you hit 2s there is virtually no point in the cooldown.

I have to completely disagree with your past 2 statements.

A second cooldown on all players hit will still create the same issue. Other groups/pugs purge you and now you are screwed for 5 seconds? This is not fair to the competent players who would use it correctly.

Other option is make purging siege a different alliance skill that operates similar to purge but give it some restriction like every 2-3 seconds.

Assuming you are a solo player just trying to gun down people with siege though, thats the sort of gameplay I find very discouraging. Good group of coordinating people should have the proper defenses to live through siege. And we do.

because Barrier, Rapid Maneuver requring careful use makes them totally worthless... 5s cooldown on the purge effect of purge would just add it to that camp... if some random purges you of one ability thats something you have to deal with just like if you were trying to move in stealth when a random comes and starts spamming springs on you..

5s is barely any time... only slightly longer than a Treb reloading, which is why im suggesting 5s.... if you start getting hammered by siege then you need to move out of the way... blobs can move but seige cant... this is proven any time seige appears to fight a blob in openworld PvP.. it ends up utterly worthless not because of purge but because it doesnt hit anything due to the blobs manuvering.

Purge is most commonly used by those blobs that are attacking a keep, and it enables them to so easily run rampant against any odds that it borders on unfairness to the defenders, rendering nearly any attempt by anything other than another blob pointless.. thats Not healthy for the game AT ALL.

Organized groups dont need to stack to avoid siege generally.. LOS tactics and more are generally enough unless seige gets past the 9+ count. past a certain point stacking needs to be punishable... you cannot have one tactic that so utterly outperforms any other tactic without serious loss in the long run.

people are acting like even a 5s cooldown would make purge pointless but it wouldnt... it would still allow you time to get out of the way of seige, or let you purge away the dots after making a breech attempt.

as long as the cooldown only affects you if you get cleared of an effect i see no problem with "pugs casting purge and screwing my timers"

if it lets blobs die then everyone is better off...

right now its like going bowling but having the pins able to instantly get back up unless you throw another lanes pins at them.

a game that is ONLY for the group is not much of a game... Grouping does need some disadvantages or else people will keep blobspamming

one last note... Purge is only a part of the problem that enables Blobbing.

Dude you just have no clue to be honest.

Purge is strong, not op, but strong. When purging you lose many things like dps, heals (depending) snares, ultis, etc..

There is not a single place in a keep you are not vulnerable to siege, not one. You can wipe all guards easily in an open keep.

You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers).

Two things to think about here, why do the best guilds use siege? And how the hell do you think we would get through 12-20 siege with a 5 second cooldown? If you think 5 seconds is short you are not even an occassional PvP player.

If you are one of those players that think siege, since its some big arrow on fire, should be indefensible then I don't know what to tell you. Its another tool to use, just like purge or steel tornado.

Tell you what, message me for my @ name, and we will meet up in game. Sit there for 5 seconds, heal your heart out, and lets see how long you live without purge. You won't

EDIT: And in this bowling scenario, even if 4 people would throw the ball together with some competency the pins would fall. Im going on a limb here, but Im assuming you are a solo player with little to zero organization.

Sorry but you should not stand a chance against 16-20 players who are better, more organized, and more prepared.

Dont tell him he has no clue. Thats being insulting - and hes trying to put forth some effort to reduce ball groups for the sake of lag. Its more than can be said of Decibel currently.

As he said, purge is used by all large groups. They use it while going from point A to point B. This is their way of negating all negative effects that might go through their barrier and cause any bit of harm, which is likely 0. Its negating most of the effect that siege has.

If you think its good gameplay that people effortlessly spam purges without knowing/caring what theyre coming up against, then you are a fool and your opinion has been diminished on this topic. Performance takes a dive when people start purging, even before theyre in combat. Groups just kick it up before they even barrier and charge through a breach, like theyre starting up a godamn lawnmower. Whats the downside to queing up this great strength that kills server performance? None. This skill needs to be revisisted so large groups actually care about charging through siege and pick small windows when they can move from Point A to Point B.

Decibel is what people are complaining about. They move around like a ball. They may not have a full 24 all the time (they have it sometimes), but with their general defensive posturing in group play, they dont need to. Any sense of balling can be done to the same effect past 12+ players, nobody is being a hero by running with 16. AOEs can impact your entire group, but thats ok, because healing is stronger. This style of gameplay is garbage - there is no downside to grouping up, you can automatically receive 50% or 75% damage mitigation from AOEs because you have a certain amount of people around you. The only non-mitigated damage we can use is siege, and then you have purge spam. If they didnt have these terrible AOE caps in, this style of play would go out the window and suddenly players couldnt rely on huge mitigations today that keep their groups alive.

WRX: "You are mentioning keeps not being defended by 9+ siege, what groups are you fighting or playing with? An organized defense has 6 siege up top, 6-10 oils, maybe ballistas on the bottom, and maybe siege hitting the the entire keep from outside (depending on the numbers)."

What groups dont have 9+ siege defending their keep? The groups FENGRUSH plays with dont have 9 extra people in his group with oil and others on ballista. In fact, theres a lot of people that dont have groups that big and theyre trying to voice their concerns here. Try playing DC on the average day and you will find plenty of groups that dont have adequate numbers to defend. Meanwhile theyre fighting low-talent players from your banana alliance that group up at 1:10 odds to push them in the afternoon - in ball group fashion, because this is how theyve been conditioned. And if they just so happen to even out the odds, you get guilds like yours that are fully commit to doubling up the faction numbers and bringing on the zerg with F-U numbers where you can throw strategy to the wayside, rally up, purge and barrier while flooding BoL.

Keep posting in these threads about fixing zergs, FENGRUSH appreciates any voice of reason that will come out and help push ZOS into action on fixing their own game. But dont come and insult folks on the forums when youre playing the way you are today. Split up to groups of 8- people before you do that and by all means, tear into people about purge. At least we could say theres 1 less ball group killing cyrodiil performance.

You have to b joking. THEY SOLD THIS GAME AS LARGE SCALE PVP. Lol. This comments are absurd. Telling people they are zergs is a joke. We are armies in a game designed for them.

This goes hand in hand with the 'we are playing the game the way its meant to be played' line. The game wasnt meant to lag out and freeze for 5-10mins. Sure, it is ZOSs fault and @ZOS_BrianWheeler for giving us this environment, but so are a lot of other issues that we dont excuse. Its the zergballs fault for knowingly playing in this fashion because theyre unwilling or unable to play any other style.

1) @ZOS_BrianWheeler says hes working on performance and there isnt much else we can do there. Dont think the LOS checks will 'fix' lag at all, may have a significant help in things though (we can hope?). Spending too much time on issues that dont resolve the problem may have another significant impact to the PVP population. Best solution would be to institute changes that impact how these fights flow rather than trying to fix bad fight scenarios.

2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.

I understand where you are coming from. I do. But, it starts out with groups. Then the other group will get more people if the wipe. On and on it gets bigger and bigger. The only way right now to counter other bigger groups is to get more yourself. I know some like Havoc hold there own against greater numbers but not the majority of the time. If one side gets a bigger group, then so does the other. That goes for ALL factions, not just EP or AD.

Ok - so you are just agreeing with FENGRUSH it sounds like? Groups play the largest role in strategy because of the way AOE caps function? Agree with you there for the most part.

So.. are we ready to move back to no AOE caps where group size isnt the leading factor in these situations? Strategy, placement, and ultimately initiation become a much larger and important point? This is how it used to be. Fighting over choke points was truly epic.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Lightning ballistas hit for 6k initally, fire around 8k..

even the best timed will hit between the ticks of healing springs and it takes more than 5+ to cause a instant wipe with near perfect timing. most keeps wont have that much on the walls unless the entire faction is there to defend and the attackers will never be clustered enough to make attacking them worthwhile.

when a blob runs in, you have less than a second long window you have to aim and fire in advance to wipe them with seige before they turn and go into the nearest postern. No group can sucessfully pull that off as generally there is not enough space for the seige to do this that cannot also be counter seiged from pugs on the attackers still firing into the newly opened breech...

i love how people act like seige can be the end of the world when literally nothing dies to them anymore except solo players with no self healing or status removal abilities..

siege has literally 0 effect on blobs untill the number surpasses 10+ firing on them.. and all a blob has to do to avoid that is move around and get out of range....

Purge does makes any successful hits on a blob utterly worthless in the current state of the game. But even without it, you cannot deny that blobs would mostly shrug off siege simply by merit of their ability to heal on the move and overall coordination with the speed of their pushes while mitigating with barrier etc.

the end result is simple. Siege is pointless vs blobs, and barely affects single players if those players know what they are doing.

Satiar

Hit an organized blob with siege while pushing into them with even moderate damage and CC. Than tell me siege is useless.

Siege is deadly to even good groups, you must either push it and eliminate it or retreat. To stand in it is death, if anyone halfway competent pushes you while you are doing so.

Hypertionb14_ESO

Satiar wrote: »

Hit an organized blob with siege while pushing into them with even moderate damage and CC. Than tell me siege is useless.

Siege is deadly to even good groups, you must either push it and eliminate it or retreat. To stand in it is death, if anyone halfway competent pushes you while you are doing so.

with a group pounding as well yes. siege can be a big factor due to the damage..

but seige on its own? almost never see it sucessfully be the cause of a wipe. only once or twice when a blob pushed into more than 9+ ballistas firing on them... they started losing members even with purge then. it is far from a instant wipe in those situations and members only started to fall in pairs at first.

that one Scroll farm attempt by red a few days back only wiped because they pushed into a stacked and midigating group instead of hitting the seige and like you said instantly wiped because all the siege unloaded at once.... that was purely because the focus was on the stacked players.

try killing a blob that is stacking and purging with just oils over a outpost while they are front dooring on a ram... it doesnt even tickle a group with just 3-4 and they wont even bother spreading out untill there are 7+ up there or the ram dies.

try killing a full 19 offensive siege with just your siege... you will never wipe them all and probably wont actually get any kills because the attackers move constantly... even in situations with equal numbers of siege the attackers eventually get in because they never die to siege alone..

Siege alone is too weak against blobs.

Satiar

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Hit an organized blob with siege while pushing into them with even moderate damage and CC. Than tell me siege is useless.

Siege is deadly to even good groups, you must either push it and eliminate it or retreat. To stand in it is death, if anyone halfway competent pushes you while you are doing so.

with a group pounding as well yes. siege can be a big factor due to the damage..

but seige on its own? i almost never seen it sucessfully. only once or twice when a blob pushed into more than 9+ ballistas firing on them... they started losing members even with purge then.

Well yeah, it's not an I Win button. But it does mean a small group can combine their CC and damage with siege damage to devastating effect on a larger group. The point is that it cannot really be mitigated, so it doesn't take much extra to push the heal threshold and start dropping bodies. Bonus points if you combine with negate/leap/fear bomb to delay purges/heals.

Siege keeps groups like mine in check, it forces us to react, move, and in many ways dictates Where we push. This can be exploited by good players.

Manoekin

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Hit an organized blob with siege while pushing into them with even moderate damage and CC. Than tell me siege is useless.

Siege is deadly to even good groups, you must either push it and eliminate it or retreat. To stand in it is death, if anyone halfway competent pushes you while you are doing so.

with a group pounding as well yes. siege can be a big factor due to the damage..

but seige on its own? almost never see it sucessfully be the cause of a wipe. only once or twice when a blob pushed into more than 9+ ballistas firing on them... they started losing members even with purge then. it is far from a instant wipe in those situations and members only started to fall in pairs at first.

that one Scroll farm attempt by red a few days back only wiped because they pushed into a stacked and midigating group instead of hitting the seige and like you said instantly wiped because all the siege unloaded at once.... that was purely because the focus was on the stacked players.

try killing a blob that is stacking and purging with just oils over a outpost while they are front dooring on a ram... it doesnt even tickle a group with just 3-4 and they wont even bother spreading out untill there are 7+ up there or the ram dies.

try killing a full 19 offensive siege with just your siege... you will never wipe them all and probably wont actually get any kills because the attackers move constantly... even in situations with equal numbers of siege the attackers eventually get in because they never die to siege alone..

Siege alone is too weak against blobs.

Sounds like it's balanced. What was your point then?

Satiar

Manoekin wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Hit an organized blob with siege while pushing into them with even moderate damage and CC. Than tell me siege is useless.

Siege is deadly to even good groups, you must either push it and eliminate it or retreat. To stand in it is death, if anyone halfway competent pushes you while you are doing so.

with a group pounding as well yes. siege can be a big factor due to the damage..

but seige on its own? almost never see it sucessfully be the cause of a wipe. only once or twice when a blob pushed into more than 9+ ballistas firing on them... they started losing members even with purge then. it is far from a instant wipe in those situations and members only started to fall in pairs at first.

that one Scroll farm attempt by red a few days back only wiped because they pushed into a stacked and midigating group instead of hitting the seige and like you said instantly wiped because all the siege unloaded at once.... that was purely because the focus was on the stacked players.

try killing a blob that is stacking and purging with just oils over a outpost while they are front dooring on a ram... it doesnt even tickle a group with just 3-4 and they wont even bother spreading out untill there are 7+ up there or the ram dies.

try killing a full 19 offensive siege with just your siege... you will never wipe them all and probably wont actually get any kills because the attackers move constantly... even in situations with equal numbers of siege the attackers eventually get in because they never die to siege alone..

Siege alone is too weak against blobs.

Sounds like it's balanced. What was your point then?

Yeah, a well optimized group should never wipe to just siege. But I've been caught before, one nasty negate as 2 Ballistas hit and I think I lost half a raid. I've been pressured enough that I've got into a bad spot and wiped where I otherwise wouldn't have. Siege is a tool, one you can use to pressure larger groups and control the battlefield. It functions perfectly well in the hands of good players.

Hypertionb14_ESO

So far the most defensive of blobs are those who literally have it in their signatures that they do so..

i have suggested a moderate reduction in only ONE of more than 6 things that allow blobs to function... a change that even i will admit would eventually fail to stop blobbing, at best slowing it down while existing blobs figure out new ways to make up for it.

its so blatantly obvious that even a 5s cooldown on purge would have no effect on blobs ultimately... im ashamed of how badly you are crying at even the idea of just ONE of your toys being not even taken away but altered slightly.

the out cry from people who are openly proud of the fact they are part of these blobs proves my point...

Im sorry but blobs being the end all be all answer to everything but extremely excessive numbers or another blob is not even remotely considerable balance.

Siege being effective? thats not even remotely the end all be all answer to fixing PvP... not even remotely, it would at best give the little guy a option and give uncoordinated little guys a way to fight against it, but dont even kid yourself that siege alone would make your perfectly stacked on crown group unable to stay a perfectly stacked on crown group.

Satiar

Nothing alone should disrupt a well coordinated raid of good players. I'm all for adjustments to group play, purge mechanics and AoE caps are great paths to follow. But the hate for group play is just so strong I don't know what to go with it. Sounds to me like people are just fishing for an I Win button against players who run stronger groups than them, instead of putting in the effort to make their own groups and guilds better and more competitive .

Xsorus

Satiar wrote: »

Nothing alone should disrupt a well coordinated raid of good players. I'm all for adjustments to group play, purge mechanics and AoE caps are great paths to follow. But the hate for group play is just so strong I don't know what to go with it. Sounds to me like people are just fishing for an I Win button against players who run stronger groups than them, instead of putting in the effort to make their own groups and guilds better and more competitive .

Its not really a hate for group play

Its a hate for zergs who pretend they're just a group.

Molsondry

Crown wrote: »

Actually, I was referring to a 1v10 fight that lasted about a half hour before I jumped down outside and my shade bugged (or maybe I mistimed it) and couldn't get back in. I got about 45 kills on the same 10 people over that time while streaming to a newer group of nightblades and teaching them how to 1vX the way that I enjoy doing so.

You mean abusing of dodge roll animation canceling spam with infinite stam cauz champions points is broken and you have so much stam regen?. You mean abusing of how the game is broken to take all advantage of it and kill 10 noobs over and over?

[snip]

Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll ,skill, Dodge roll

But but streak is op!!!!!!!

[edited for baiting]

Senk3tsu

So basically, if I read that correctly, it sounds like you are punishing people with the former buffs for no good reason, despite the flip campaigns there are people that worked really really hard to get that and it's still the hardest achievement in the game. So for this, I feel like the majority are getting punished for the few, most of whom do not even play this game anymore.
The problem is, the ENTIRE way to get Emperor is flawed, has been flawed since Psijic testing and you guys knew about it. It was pointed out to you in testing and it hasn't been changed and I don't think players should be punished for the derp system.
Taking out jumping to campaigns? And buffs? Guess what, you're still gonna have faction dominated campaigns. I don't think that will ever change.
Jumping to campaigns is what keeps people playing with their friends. And being stuck in a lagfest where you can't jump out to someone else or re-home? That is going to kill PvP all together. Why even PvP when you're stuck in slideshow mode and can't play with your buds and can't do a thing to change it?
150,000 AP?! Do you realize how long it takes the average player to even accumulate that much AP? Because this sounds it these changes are coming from people that have no idea how Cyrodiil works/how AP is gained.
I am salty, yes, because I think that these 'fixes' are going to end up hurting the game, way more than helping and right now PvP is the only thing really keeping the PC version alive because of lack of content.

Woman

Senk3tsu wrote: »

So basically, if I read that correctly, it sounds like you are punishing people with the former buffs for no good reason, despite the flip campaigns there are people that worked really really hard to get that and it's still the hardest achievement in the game. So for this, I feel like the majority are getting punished for the few, most of whom do not even play this game anymore.
The problem is, the ENTIRE way to get Emperor is flawed, has been flawed since Psijic testing and you guys knew about it. It was pointed out to you in testing and it hasn't been changed and I don't think players should be punished for the derp system.
Taking out jumping to campaigns? And buffs? Guess what, you're still gonna have faction dominated campaigns. I don't think that will ever change.
Jumping to campaigns is what keeps people playing with their friends. And being stuck in a lagfest where you can't jump out to someone else or re-home? That is going to kill PvP all together. Why even PvP when you're stuck in slideshow mode and can't play with your buds and can't do a thing to change it?
150,000 AP?! Do you realize how long it takes the average player to even accumulate that much AP? Because this sounds it these changes are coming from people that have no idea how Cyrodiil works/how AP is gained.
I am salty, yes, because I think that these 'fixes' are going to end up hurting the game, way more than helping and right now PvP is the only thing really keeping the PC version alive because of lack of content.

nailed it.

Raizin

Senk3tsu wrote: »

So basically, if I read that correctly, it sounds like you are punishing people with the former buffs for no good reason, despite the flip campaigns there are people that worked really really hard to get that and it's still the hardest achievement in the game. So for this, I feel like the majority are getting punished for the few, most of whom do not even play this game anymore.
The problem is, the ENTIRE way to get Emperor is flawed, has been flawed since Psijic testing and you guys knew about it. It was pointed out to you in testing and it hasn't been changed and I don't think players should be punished for the derp system.
Taking out jumping to campaigns? And buffs? Guess what, you're still gonna have faction dominated campaigns. I don't think that will ever change.
Jumping to campaigns is what keeps people playing with their friends. And being stuck in a lagfest where you can't jump out to someone else or re-home? That is going to kill PvP all together. Why even PvP when you're stuck in slideshow mode and can't play with your buds and can't do a thing to change it?
150,000 AP?! Do you realize how long it takes the average player to even accumulate that much AP? Because this sounds it these changes are coming from people that have no idea how Cyrodiil works/how AP is gained.
I am salty, yes, because I think that these 'fixes' are going to end up hurting the game, way more than helping and right now PvP is the only thing really keeping the PC version alive because of lack of content.

it ll be new crown store pack, didnt u know?

1. "Free pass to any Campaign u wish - PACK" - 1500 crowns
2. "Ability to use buffs from campaigns (nobody cares bout them anyways) in pve - PACK" - 900 crowns
3. "Change your home campaign - SCROLL" - 1000 crowns
4. "Keep your former emp passives - PACKAGE (one random passive per package, out of five total)" - 2000 crowns
5. "Open emperor skill line (when u obtain emperor in certain campaign) - SCROLL" - 2000 crowns
6. "One time _jump to a friend_ - SCROLL" - 500 crowns

And many more PACKAGES/SCROLLS/PACKS is coming guys! HYPE UP

I so see this coming )) laughs much

The Uninvited

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

Nerf healing springs? How about pve then?

Ask in the PvE section.

Nice comeback

Senk3tsu

Raizin wrote: »

Senk3tsu wrote: »

So basically, if I read that correctly, it sounds like you are punishing people with the former buffs for no good reason, despite the flip campaigns there are people that worked really really hard to get that and it's still the hardest achievement in the game. So for this, I feel like the majority are getting punished for the few, most of whom do not even play this game anymore.
The problem is, the ENTIRE way to get Emperor is flawed, has been flawed since Psijic testing and you guys knew about it. It was pointed out to you in testing and it hasn't been changed and I don't think players should be punished for the derp system.
Taking out jumping to campaigns? And buffs? Guess what, you're still gonna have faction dominated campaigns. I don't think that will ever change.
Jumping to campaigns is what keeps people playing with their friends. And being stuck in a lagfest where you can't jump out to someone else or re-home? That is going to kill PvP all together. Why even PvP when you're stuck in slideshow mode and can't play with your buds and can't do a thing to change it?
150,000 AP?! Do you realize how long it takes the average player to even accumulate that much AP? Because this sounds it these changes are coming from people that have no idea how Cyrodiil works/how AP is gained.
I am salty, yes, because I think that these 'fixes' are going to end up hurting the game, way more than helping and right now PvP is the only thing really keeping the PC version alive because of lack of content.

it ll be new crown store pack, didnt u know?

1. "Free pass to any Campaign u wish - PACK" - 1500 crowns
2. "Ability to use buffs from campaigns (nobody cares bout them anyways) in pve - PACK" - 900 crowns
3. "Change your home campaign - SCROLL" - 1000 crowns
4. "Keep your former emp passives - PACKAGE (one random passive per package, out of five total)" - 2000 crowns
5. "Open emperor skill line (when u obtain emperor in certain campaign) - SCROLL" - 2000 crowns
6. "One time _jump to a friend_ - SCROLL" - 500 crowns

And many more PACKAGES/SCROLLS/PACKS is coming guys! HYPE UP

I so see this coming )) laughs much

At this point, I would not be surprised.

Hypertionb14_ESO

on the matter of seige, i would say the ineffectiveness of it was just proven at the Fare Seige just now..

even with 3-4 hitting them they took no damage and they basically took the keep with no challenge despite stacking inside of seige... I saw almost no purging because they didnt even need it with all the healing they had going on.. at least untill they stacked to run in, then you could hear it going off every half second like usual.

each shot i fired on that group had no effect, heck the other AD ended up picking up their seige because they gave up...

how the hell is this balanced?

pugs had 0 effect on that defense... despite being closely matched in numbers the fight was so pathetically and totally in favor of the one attacking group that it was a totally pointless defense...

Pugs and ungrouped/unorganized have no pull on this game... thats what needs to change. or blobs will push out all competetion and the game will die because blobs often dont even bother with a campaign if there is a enemy blob running. why chillrend is so weak on AD side, AD blobs never willing go there anymore and i always see them in Azuras or thorn.

Manoekin

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

on the matter of seige, i would say the ineffectiveness of it was just proven at the Fare Seige just now..

even with 3-4 hitting them they took no damage and they basically took the keep with no challenge despite stacking inside of seige... I saw almost no purging because they didnt even need it with all the healing they had going on.. at least untill they stacked to run in, then you could hear it going off every half second like usual.

each shot i fired on that group had no effect, heck the other AD ended up picking up their seige because they gave up...

how the hell is this balanced?

pugs had 0 effect on that defense... despite being closely matched in numbers the fight was so pathetically and totally in favor of the one attacking group that it was a totally pointless defense...

Pugs and ungrouped/unorganized have no pull on this game... thats what needs to change. or blobs will push out all competetion and the game will die because blobs often dont even bother with a campaign if there is a enemy blob running. why chillrend is so weak on AD side, AD blobs never willing go there anymore and i always see them in Azuras or thorn.

Read the thread and you'll see why it's balanced. Siege won't win you a fight by itself, you have to actually PvP.

AhPook_Is_Here

Crown wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We know that Emperor Farming, or more accurately Former Emp Farming, is a behavior that was\is detrimental to the health of PVP. We are doing this change to get back to the original intent of Emperorship where that PVP player is a powerful ally for their Alliance while fighting in Cyrodiil, not because they have a Former Emperor 2% buff to help with grinding.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I've still not heard justification how removing the Former Emperor buff will change peoples' attitudes and activities in PvP. A number of my peers have doctorates in psychology or sociology (my PH.D. is in a related field) and player attitude is something we often discuss. The only thing you'll be doing is placating the people who have not had and never will have the Former Emperor title such that they won't feel inferior. 2% to stats will not significantly affect a person's likelihood to win or lose in a fight. You've already stated how you're removing PvP buffs outside Cyrodill (which I agree with), so let the Former Emperors have a character effect/buff only within Cyrodiil.

If grinding with 2% extra resource regeneration is a big concern to you, then change delves such that they are outside of PvP - problem solved. Emperors who are bored tend to head into Cracked Wood cave to grind champion points already.

If you have a study on MMO player behaviour (two of my colleagues are working on their theses {plural of thesis - I had to look that up} in this particular field) that supports your intended activity, then we would love to read it. If not, we strongly believe that you will not accomplish anything other than to upset the top tier of players who worked very hard for their Former Emperor status.

Doctorate of psychology with a focus in MMO pathology? There is no such thing as "Trivial" left in this world.

WRX

Manoekin wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

on the matter of seige, i would say the ineffectiveness of it was just proven at the Fare Seige just now..

even with 3-4 hitting them they took no damage and they basically took the keep with no challenge despite stacking inside of seige... I saw almost no purging because they didnt even need it with all the healing they had going on.. at least untill they stacked to run in, then you could hear it going off every half second like usual.

each shot i fired on that group had no effect, heck the other AD ended up picking up their seige because they gave up...

how the hell is this balanced?

pugs had 0 effect on that defense... despite being closely matched in numbers the fight was so pathetically and totally in favor of the one attacking group that it was a totally pointless defense...

Pugs and ungrouped/unorganized have no pull on this game... thats what needs to change. or blobs will push out all competetion and the game will die because blobs often dont even bother with a campaign if there is a enemy blob running. why chillrend is so weak on AD side, AD blobs never willing go there anymore and i always see them in Azuras or thorn.

Read the thread and you'll see why it's balanced. Siege won't win you a fight by itself, you have to actually PvP.

Not to mention we have been there, along with 1-2 other groups on chillrend.

Cormore

taking away the emp buffs after people worked hard for them really? Thats a terrible idea for the people who stayed up multiple days for it

Ace_SiN

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

2) @ZOS_BrianWheeler has not addressed the issue of zergballs, or armies as you like to call them for a game designed to have armies. Its nobodies place to say how you should play or what you want to do, but there need to be fair mechanics in play that allow others to have a fair shake at countering your army. If people are going to group into a tight formation and abuse mechanics such as 50/75% damage mitigation through AOE caps, what is the solution to offset this? Heals arent reduced by 50-75% for big groups, their barriers arent, the purges arent. Not suggesting we should go that route - back to square 1 with removal of AOE caps. If people want to bunch, they can stand together and die together on fair ground.

Please keep in mind, anything related to abilities, skill lines, combat, and the balance thereof does not fall under Brian's or the PVP team's purview. That's the Combat team. They do work closely together, but they're different teams who have completely different responsibilities.

Can I get the name of the person leading the 'Combat team'? I need to make sure my posts are directed at the right person when more illogical combat affecting changes make their way into Cyrodiil.