Feimerdre wrote: »

smokes wrote: »

as a developer, obviously the long term goal is balance - but that is not quickly, nor easily achieved. a quick short term fix would be to nerf the mob health in overworld areas until such time that class and build balance can be addressed more thoroughly. - which is why i am suggesting it.

I am tending to sign that.

Temporarily I might even support that myself if I had any faith in ZoS's ability to do it in the first place then return it to where it should be after they fix the other issues (which in itself is about 6 months away)

Weird that neither me or any of my friends ever had any issues with pve, except that one guy we all know he's bad.

Personal opinion is that people have been so used to the spoon feeding you got in wow and similar games, that at the slightest change in difficulty....THE WORLD IS ENDING.

If this game is to hard for you, then please go play some Minesweeper or something... OH WAIT, MINESWEEPER is actually harder than this. Damn I guess you are screwed.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

One of the biggest problems I see players facing is that they don't know how to place attribute points. At this time, due to they way the game is designed, ther is no reason to put points into anything but health. You should always put points into only health from levels 1-40 at least and I highly suggest you just go all health. Almost all endgame builds are 0m/49h/0s or 5/44/0.

The other problem I see is, players not wanting to change their builds for more aoe style builds. They like what they have and believe it should work at any level because they maxed ranked the skills and know how to use them well. Truthfully, aoe is superior for damage and survivability, as the game gets progressively harder, simple reason that you will have to fight larger packs. I remember how difficult harvesters were for me until I discovered that an aoe destroys all her life orbs in one strike. She is an ant to me now, but before aoe I was single targeting the orbs frantically as she killed me over and over.

other things that make the game harder for players

1. Not having and using potions-sold at merchants
2. Not eating max stat foods-sold at inns
3. Not investing in lots of soul gems and using world skills to keep those gems filled.
4. Not weapon swapping during combat or as an opener.
5. using 2 badly compatible weapon swaps (2h+bow). Instead have a defensive or healing swap to complement your main weapon line. A good opener I use is resto regeneration and force siphon- then swap to main dps line.
6. Raging. Most times players will continue to repeat the last death with the same tactics that lead to that death.

Hope that helps.

Overall Gameplay too difficult?

if usual mobs don't do critical hits then I don't even know what to think.

my "wrecking blow" hits 500 dmg

my armor stat here is 1400

Feimerdre wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

So either i add my voice to those pleading for some changes to hopfully spread the fun around a bit more... or i take your attitude of "this is it, like it or lump it"

You either didnt get my point (wich is thinkable as I anot native English speaking) or you don't want to. I got the impression over some of your posts that you shoot fast and tend to think you comprehend as fast.
Stopping a second thinking about what you read may let you come to the conclusion that even someone you disagree with in the first point says something viable. You tend to not allowing this to happen.

My point (I try once more, hope to get it clearer) was:
If you do not like the concept of a game (this includes Vetlevels and cross realm questing) and the game mechanics (aka fighting in ESO) it will make no sense if you come posting on the forums about your fun. You will not find it if they make mobs easier or stamina builds more valid as you simply will never be tuned into this game.
I didnt mean that you should not raise your voice on obvious problems this game still has. Stamina builds are one of them for examples. The whole concept of fighting, as it is set up now will not allow stamina builds if you come to ask me. Stamina builds arent POSSIBLE as you consume stamina for defensive purpose and general movement. The stamina based attack skills are planned terribly wrong (or the use of stamina for defense). If you use magicka for DPS and stamina for defense you are perfectly well suited. So this means as things are today there is no way to buff stamina builds. Making defense costs lower or buffing stamina DPS will lead to massive balancing issues as magicka based builds will suddenly get access to high DPS stamina attacks.
But this is only one more of my very personal opinions

i understood what you said completely. you contradict yourself tho. you first say it will make no sense if you come posting on the forums about your fun


then go on to say

I didnt mean that you should not raise your voice on obvious problems this game still has.

so which is it?

if i,m not finding the content fun for whatever reason be it the grindy unrewwarding nature of vet levels or being forced to play light armour staffs same as everyone or whatever reason , are you saying its not worth posting or it is a reasonable course of action?

which was why i disagreed with you initially

Sorry, but aspects of this game are completely broken.

I found almost all content to be easy mode until VR4, where it because increasingly harder and harder. I'm VR8 now, and quite simply, there are bosses that I cannot beat no matter what. It's simply impossible unless they bug.

It's not a question of skill or tactics. I've defeated bosses without even knowing they are bosses, but there is something wrong with variables in the game that crushes the ability to complete certain content.

For example, there is a boss named Cassia Varo, he's a tough boss that almost everyone has trouble with because he heals constantly, but you should be able to be in melee range and interrupt the heal with melee interrupt, but I've watched the videos of other players, including VR level, and while he heals in those, it is nothing like what he is doing when I fight him.

Literally, he heals at least once every 5 seconds, and it doesn't matter how quickly you hit the interrupt, it always lets some of the heal get through, so he's back to 100% almost every time, then his Ice Arrow hits for 755, so three will kill you without a heal, and his ice block hits for 1600, and often instant casts, as in no animation, boom, you are stuck he heals to full then kills you.

I've stood at range and watched him heal when he is taking no damage and it's just heal heal heal heal heal.

To put this in perspective, I easily one shot his companion, that people have trouble with. I actually got the boss down to 30% on right after that, but then he ice arrowed me three times in a row and killed me, then he bugged.

The number of times I've had to drop a quest, then restart it because the encounter bugs is ridiculous.

Now, I'm never quite sure, is the boss bugged, or did someone just do a horrible job programming.

I've had other bosses that were almost as bad, as in would be impossible to beat, then suddenly the boss just stops and literally stands there doing nothing until it dies.

charles.cavanaughub17_ESO wrote: »

If you want to experience true despair and misery in a game, play Dark Souls for awhile. Then come back to ESO and it will feel like a walk in the park (that's an exaggeration).

I, for one, like the fact that there are some elements in ESO that remind me of Dark Souls. I love the palpable sense of fear in facing an enemy, and the sheer sense of triumph when you defeat him, and knowing that your skillful maneuvering and tactical combat played a key role.

It is probably true, however, that pursuing quests, exploring, and crafting should have the same degree of emphasis that the brutal combat has in the veteran levels. I think the ideal lies in a world where a player can go about doing what he or she wishes and still level up, but there are certain areas where true terror lies, and the rewards for confronting that terror are magnificent!!!

Well said! I wholeheartedly agree. I like a good 'walk in the park' as much as the next guy but there really is nothing like winning a good hard fought battle (where you're using strategy and constantly manouvering for the advantage and customizing your abilites). As you say, it shouldn't be the norm, but only in certain locations "where terror lies" (I like that so much I might use it in my signature-lol!)

Feimerdre wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

i understood what you said completely. you contradict yourself tho. you first say it will make no sense if you come posting on the forums about your fun


then go on to say

I didnt mean that you should not raise your voice on obvious problems this game still has.

so which is it?

if i,m not finding the content fun for whatever reason be it the grindy unrewwarding nature of vet levels or being forced to play light armour staffs same as everyone or whatever reason , are you saying its not worth posting or it is a reasonable course of action?

which was why i disagreed with you initially

I just got the feeling from your posts in this thread that there is so much in this game concept that annoys you that it made me come to the conclusion that no matter what will be fixed you will never find your fun in this game. If that was a false comclusion forgive me.

nothing to forgive sir. you express your opinion in a polite and respectfull way.
let me clarify I love the idea of this game. I loved playing my toon from 1-50 . i still enjoy pvp (apart from all the disconnects) i enjoyed all the dungeons i did while levelling..

its just vet mode that utterly fails , and even tho ive completed it I am vocal cos i think its really bad implementation is such a problem that it will bring this game down.

Feimerdre wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

You really cant see how getting through sloggy, grindy, artificially challenging trash faster would make game less boring?

You didnt walk out on Level 3 to the newly opened words and walked through "trash" I suppose? So what makes you think you hit V1 and can do all that without being harmed? Who told you that hitting V1 makes you invulnerable? Who told you reaching Vet content enables you to faceroll anything in your direct way to a goal? I tell you one thing: the game is too easy past level 30 to level 50, that's what makes you think Vet content should feel just like that!
The learning curve should be much smoother in my eyes. But rivers of tears forced ZOS to lower the difficulty of many many solo encounters <50.

Sakiri wrote: »

Im unsure how anyone *doesnt* find clearing 20 minutes of trash to get to an objective boring.

I sure as hell cant find anything interesting enough about it to warrant wanting to spend my 6+ hour game sessions on it.

Well, lets look it up from the other side: where do you want to come to? You want to be Vet12 in 3 days? Is that what you trying to tell us all?
Tell me please what starts for you at Vet12 what you could not have with Vet1,2,6 or 7? What makes being Vet12 for you so desirable that you want to reach it with almost no effort in almost no time?

Please sir, tell me where Ive ever said I wanted to.

Ill be waiting.

Hilgara wrote: »

but in reality it will still only be those few who can't play well.

You heard it right here folks.

All of us complaining here suck at the game and thats our problem.

Never mind that Ive run realm firsts in games harder than this one.

Never mind that Ive never said it was too difficult for me.

Nevermind that the only argument they can come up with is that *their* fun will be impacted and that *they* think its fine and theyre claiming majority when their supposed majority isnt large enough to deny theres a problem.

Do you want to know what people want in MMOs, by chance? Not some bullcrap poll here but some seriously hard data?

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001645.php

10 YEARS OF DATA ON MMO PLAY HABITS.

10. Years.

Who plays, how they like playing, demographics on gender and age.

You name it hes studied it.

I highly suggest people look at it.

And this wasnt some piddly thing... he collected data from over 70,000 surveys and wrote a book on how online games change us.

Feimerdre wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Feimerdre wrote: »

Well, lets look it up from the other side: where do you want to come to? You want to be Vet12 in 3 days? Is that what you trying to tell us all?
Tell me please what starts for you at Vet12 what you could not have with Vet1,2,6 or 7? What makes being Vet12 for you so desirable that you want to reach it with almost no effort in almost no time?

Please sir, tell me where Ive ever said I wanted to.

Ill be waiting.

I didnt mean to imply you saying something you didnt mean. If I got that wrong my bad. You quoted it tho:

Sakiri wrote: »

You really cant see how getting through sloggy, grindy, artificially challenging trash faster would make game less boring?

Sakiri wrote: »

Im unsure how anyone *doesnt* find clearing 20 minutes of trash to get to an objective boring.

This made me assume you want to speed up things. I just narrowed your answers to the point. If that was wrong make it clearer please.

Getting through trash faster doesnt imply I want leveling faster.

They could reduce xp gains to 1 point per mob and I wouldnt personally care(though since I see the other side Id support a change), I just dont find slogging through 20 minutes of trash to loot an item "fun".

hamon wrote: »

nothing to forgive sir. you express your opinion in a polite and respectfull way.
let me clarify I love the idea of this game. I loved playing my toon from 1-50 . i still enjoy pvp (apart from all the disconnects) i enjoyed all the dungeons i did while levelling..

its just vet mode that utterly fails , and even tho ive completed it I am vocal cos i think its really bad implementation is such a problem that it will bring this game down.

Thanks for clearing that up. I am with you a good way of your thoughts. But for other reasons. I am disagreeing with you tho, that this game is too hard to stand it. I do think indeed that the sentence "play as you like" was said thoughtlessly of the consequences by ZOS. As I stated before I would like to see either a person in charge admitting this was said in another way it was meant or a prove a dev by showing us how a stamina build soloes Vet10 content. I would favour 2.

Feimerdre wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

nothing to forgive sir. you express your opinion in a polite and respectfull way.
let me clarify I love the idea of this game. I loved playing my toon from 1-50 . i still enjoy pvp (apart from all the disconnects) i enjoyed all the dungeons i did while levelling..

its just vet mode that utterly fails , and even tho ive completed it I am vocal cos i think its really bad implementation is such a problem that it will bring this game down.

Thanks for clearing that up. I am with you a good way of your thoughts. But for other reasons. I am disagreeing with you tho, that this game is too hard to stand it. I do think indeed that the sentence "play as you like" was said thoughtlessly of the consequences by ZOS. As I stated before I would like to see either a person in charge admitting this was said in another way it was meant or a prove a dev by showing us how a stamina build soloes Vet10 content. I would favour 2.

Id prefer a definitive statement on it so the few I know still paying for it can just leave now and stop wasting money on false hope and lies.

We were sold in developer statements and none of them said the game was supposed to be "hard".

Sakiri wrote: »

Hilgara wrote: »

but in reality it will still only be those few who can't play well.

You heard it right here folks.

All of us complaining here suck at the game and thats our problem.

Never mind that Ive run realm firsts in games harder than this one.

Never mind that Ive never said it was too difficult for me.

Nevermind that the only argument they can come up with is that *their* fun will be impacted and that *they* think its fine and theyre claiming majority when their supposed majority isnt large enough to deny theres a problem.

Do you want to know what people want in MMOs, by chance? Not some bullcrap poll here but some seriously hard data?

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001645.php

10 YEARS OF DATA ON MMO PLAY HABITS.

10. Years.

Who plays, how they like playing, demographics on gender and age.

You name it hes studied it.

I highly suggest people look at it.

And this wasnt some piddly thing... he collected data from over 70,000 surveys and wrote a book on how online games change us.

Spot on. Great link. Casual gamers often fly under the radar because they are silent. They just want to do their thing in peace. They are the ones that read the forums, yet seldom post. (Aka 15000 views and 500 posts)

They are going to be even more reluctant to speak up about difficult game play for fear of being ridiculed. So the fact that an alarming number of otherwise quiet casual players are coming out to voice their frustrations here should be taken very seriously.

They aren't interested in heroic or difficult raids for the most part. They just want to quest in peace. Two major issues are driving them away.

1. They are struggling with trash mobs and quest objectives.
2. They cannot invite a friend or loved one to help them due to phasing.

Those of us that can see the bigger picture here understand how huge of an impact this is having and will continue to have on the future of this game.

Those of you that insist on seeing things through selfish blinders are the same ones that will be complaining when new content is delayed. The same ones that will complain when they open a cash shop. The same ones that will complain if the game goes F2P.

Give casual players a reason to stay. Tone down the trash mobs a little. Let them quest in peace and be happy. You will still have all kinds of group content to challenge you. Maybe even a few optional areas with harder quests and better rewards.

But you need to share the wealth or soon there will be no wealth to share.