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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Overall Gameplay too difficult?
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Arundo✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Just been watching an e3 interview with Fiore and I've just given up now.
Do you have the link ? Now you made me curious
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
There you go again. Where are you getting 'minority' from. How do you know that the people not finding the difficulty too hard are in the minority? You are making this crap up. Unless you can produce figures then all you can do is say is YOU find it too difficult.
No, I said that my friends are finding it too difficult and that stamina builds are broken and you will see. They said the same thing about SWTOR, the fan boys you know, and look what happened.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Just been watching an e3 interview with Fiore and I've just given up now.
Do you have the link ? Now you made me curious
Sorry - I got it from a news accumulator app on my ipad.0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
There you go again. Where are you getting 'minority' from. How do you know that the people not finding the difficulty too hard are in the minority? You are making this crap up. Unless you can produce figures then all you can do is say is YOU find it too difficult.
ok instead of arguing about numbers that I concede NO side of the arguement has access to. Would you be willing to concede that with the numerous massive threads on the sudject , and that accepting that the forums are a reasonable sample of peoples experience.
That there clearly is a problem. It might not be a prpoblem for you or me (i,m already vet 12) but if its a problem for a large amount of your fellow players Then it is A problem ?
you can argue about the size of the problem till christmas but only a blinkered fanboy can argue that there is no problem. It is a problem and its unarguably a big enough problem for enough folk to be a big problem for the health of the game..
to say otherwise is foolishness
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭what certain people appear to be either missing deliberately or because it's too difficult a concept to grasp. It's not the difficulty per se that's the problem. It's that grinding through it is just plain boring and irritating.
We could do it if we had to but we've found it is boring, boring, boring, boring, boring. With a lot of added irritation from the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever. With even more added irritation having builds and play-styles so out of balance.
ESO in this boring, grinding for no reason is driving customers away. You only have to play the game to see that.
But Zen are happy to gamble that this is the way to make money so there's nothing that can be done.
I think the end of this road is either closure or FTP. And if FTP the first thing that will get a bullet in the head is VR difficulty.
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Greywolf46✭✭✭The game is difficult and frustrating and somewhat repetitive concerning the Boss fight that ends up having your behind handed to you. I can understand why people would leave this game for that. I have stuck it out because, even with the difficulty, I like the game, but, having said that the frustration level is eating away at the enjoyment.
There are other ways of addressing these overly difficult bosses or having to fight multiple bosses simultaneously. One is by grouping with other players which is my preference. I have met some nice people doing this. However the game mechanics, specifically layering, sometimes makes this impossible. In other cases the game quest itself is designed for solo, like Molag Bal, and is ridiculously hard for some folks.
Another alternative is to allow us to hire NPC mercenaries for help in these situations.
If nothing changes in the game then a help for us that die multiple times trying to kill the boss would be to reduce the cost of repair and the cost of soul-shards.
Personally I am dedicated to this game, but many folks are not and are leaving. In the long run this game cannot endure if large percentages of noobs play a while get frustrated and leave. Only Bethesda has these numbers and they should be developing something to halt the exodus.
I know this is happening because of the conversations I have with folks I have the privilege of grouping with, that will talk. I would say about 1/3 of them were planning on leaving when their subscription expired. That seems to me to be awfully high.
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Reykice✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »what certain people appear to be either missing deliberately or because it's too difficult a concept to grasp. It's not the difficulty per se that's the problem. It's that grinding through it is just plain boring and irritating.
We could do it if we had to but we've found it is boring, boring, boring, boring, boring. With a lot of added irritation from the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever. With even more added irritation having builds and play-styles so out of balance.
ESO in this boring, grinding for no reason is driving customers away. You only have to play the game to see that.
But Zen are happy to gamble that this is the way to make money so there's nothing that can be done.
I think the end of this road is either closure or FTP. And if FTP the first thing that will get a bullet in the head is VR difficulty.
I think they should have made VR levels somehow optional... not sure how you would have leveled then but still they could have tried.
I will never argue against giving players more options and making the VR content optional like the did the starting island. I`m also all for adding difficulty sliders so the ultra casual can level with no issues and make the current VR content the "more risk more rewards" option.
People really need to stop making threads trying to change the current VR difficulty... just make a thread asking them to add a difficulty slider or make it optional, you will find there is a lot less resistance that way.2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Greywolf46 wrote: »
I know this is happening because of the conversations I have with folks I have the privilege of grouping with, that will talk. I would say about 1/3 of them were planning on leaving when their subscription expired. That seems to me to be awfully high.
It depends what the replacement rate is. If enough people buy an expensive box, enjoy the excellent faction story content for 3 months before finding VR isn't for them then there's no problem so long as the investors are happy with the Return on Investment.
The problem arises if ESO gains a bad rep and cannot generate the throughput.
All i can say is I don't know anyone who would consider playing ESO. Most were put off by the beta and won't ever give it another chance. There's certainly no big positive buzz around ESO.
And I can't stop tripping over ex-ESO players in the ArcheAge alpha.
Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on June 12, 2014 2:57PM0 -
Feimerdre✭✭✭✭Greywolf46 wrote: »In other cases the game quest itself is designed for solo, like Molag Bal, and is ridiculously hard for some folks.
You see, Molag was nerfed to eternity and back and can be soloed by anyone with a healingstaff equipped by simply running around avoiding red places. I would even go that far to say he can be defeated just using light attacks from the staff (this will take some time tho). You can weave in an occasional dot to speed things up.
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Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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And again, go to vet zone. Look at zone chat, look at how many ppl you see there. Then compare it to some other zone and consider that maybe there actually is a problem.RianaTheBosmer wrote: »Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
There you go again. Where are you getting 'minority' from. How do you know that the people not finding the difficulty too hard are in the minority? You are making this crap up. Unless you can produce figures then all you can do is say is YOU find it too difficult.
That said, I think I'm done with this thread. What started as an intelligent debate turned into another holywar, I don't think my fragile self esteem wants to stay part of it any longer>.<
P.S. Also, my bf more or less decided to quit because of vet trash:( He was a tank Templar and we played together. He also has years of MMO experience. Before someone jumps at my throat, not saying him alone indicates anything, just saying. I'm even more sad now:(Edited by Magdalina on June 12, 2014 4:36PM0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »what certain people appear to be either missing deliberately or because it's too difficult a concept to grasp. It's not the difficulty per se that's the problem. It's that grinding through it is just plain boring and irritating.
exactly , its like there is a mentality that assumes the only reason you won't do vet mode is that you find it too hard. therefore lack the skill to do it.
not that you either find it too hard to be enjoyable (as opposed to enjoying it and finding it too hard to actually do)
or that even tho you dont find it too hard , just too unrewarding in terms of the amount of time versus satisfaction.
if we could forcably remove those unwilling or unable to grasp the diffrences from this debate we could actually get somewhere.
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭silent88b14_ESO wrote: »So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.
Erm...not according to the poll
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest
I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority
You do realize forum use isnt indicative of general population right?
Most of those frustrated just leave. They dont come here for help, and they sure as Hate dont ask for advice because Gods forbid they sadmit theyre bad, people with your sttitude chew them out.
By that very same token, many of those who are enjoying the game as it is and are happy w/ the difficulty of VR content don't come here to complain.
The poll doesn't really say anything other than some of the forum users who saw it and cared to answer feel a certain way, but the sample size is far too small to be indicative of anything.
Personally, I have 3 VR-level toons (VR7 Stamina-based Sorc, VR6 healer NB, VR9 dual bow DK) and haven't had any terrible difficulty in the content on any of them.
I like the difficulty where it is. The content was designed for solo / duo, though I can fully understand that some people simply don't have a partner to play w/ or simply don't feel like reaching out to others for help.
Still, that doesn't change the fact that it was designed w/ having friends in mind.
I don't consider myself to be a "normal" player, I research the game thoroughly through multiple forums, I practice top-end strategies as soon as they become available to me, and I use add-ons to have the information pertinent to me displayed in a concise manner. I'm not quite a "hardcore", but certainly many steps more involved than what most call "casual". That's not the majority of players.
I can only imagine how much harder this game might feel to me if I was basically "flying blind" as most casuals are prone to do.Edited by Varicite on June 12, 2014 3:18PM2 -
Who said anything about 1 shotting and facerolling because I'm quite sure we asked for decreased difficulty yes but not that so think on a wider spectrum maybe? We're not asking for that we are just asking it not to me one missed block being the end. It is plain out ridiculous and stupid that trash mobs give me more trouble than darksouls. Go ahead and say "L2P" I'm rank 7 and have seen plenty of this Horse *** to know. You say we don't have numbers well go look at vet zones and see how many people have left your guilds and you start to see a clear picture of where the numbers are. Yea you can sit there feeling better than us but when this game goes sour because it's underfunded you'll soon realise what a mistake it was not just working for a solution instead of being cocky of how easy it is.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭VR wasn't sold as group only - not the grind the faction stories for no good reason bits. It just became that due to the build imbalances.
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From the horse's mouth.
VETERAN CONTENT IN ESO
One of the core philosophies of The Elder Scrolls Online is to allow you to play the way you want. You’ve probably heard us say it or experienced it for yourself: equip any weapon, wear any armor, choose from a myriad of skills, pick your role, make choices in quests, ignore certain quests and just explore, etc. The idea is that these choices tie you more to your character, and respect that you might want to play differently from one day to the next. Many times, I’ve heard people discuss how they like to solo, others like to “raid,” and another group likes to PvP, so we know gamers never fit into neat categories.
Our Veteran Rank zones (playing other Alliance content), are the core of our solo / duo Veteran PvE content. I have said many times that our game opens up at 50—this is what I was talking about. At Veteran Rank 1 you can travel anywhere in the first or second alliance you want to go. When you meet the qualifications for opening up the third alliance, the entirety of the current game world is open to you. Yes, it does get harder, but that’s part of the fun and challenge. When you consider that 2/3 of the hand-crafted content and quests are available to you after you hit the level cap of 50, the veteran solo / duo game is huge. Skyshards, quests, delves, Dark Anchors, crafting, collections, achievements—basically everything you enjoyed during the 1-50 game, are all available at these Veteran Ranks.
On Monday you might feel like playing alone, and Tuesday you might feel like working with friends on a dungeon. Whatever your motivation, you should be able to go do the thing you want without a lot of barriers.
This is the philosophy behind the core systems of ESO—play the way you want to play—and it extends to our veteran content.
I wonder what happened.4 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »They should rename this thread to "How many of you are really bad players unable to complete a game on anything else but EASY or VERY EASY?"
They should ban condescending elitists like you
Even if that was a rude comment, stating to ban people for saying what they think is worse.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
Kwas✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »VR wasn't sold as group only - not the grind the faction stories for no good reason bits. It just became that due to the build imbalances.
...
I wonder what happened.
Crag patch happened.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You fools are standing on the deck of a sinking ship saying "Everything is fine people! Nothing to see here!" Meanwhile nearly half of the passengers have already gotten into the life boats.
Half the people that remain on the ship are trying to patch the leaks. The other half are still standing on the deck saying "Everything is fine. Nothing to see!"
People are leaving in DROVES. Do you really fail to understand what this means? Are you really that blind to the outcome?
It is laughable how narrow minded some of you are. "Go back to WoW"? Ok, then they all will and have been going back to WoW. And other successful games because there is something to do there for everyone.
Don't you get it? This game needs subscriptions to succeed.
But you stand on the deck, waist deep in water saying "Everything is fine folks! Nothing to see!"11 -
Yankee✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »And I can't stop tripping over ex-ESO players in the ArcheAge alpha.
Sorry, but you will be tripping over one more as soon as the download finishes!
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Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Dayv
Fair enough. I didnt see it that way. As long as there is "hard" encounters in Craglorn.....maybe it should be "normal" difficulty too.
I do think one sided at times. Yeah, casual players should have something to do in Graglorn, but not expecting to faceroll a trial.
No one ever said anything about facerolling a trial.0 -
MosquitonSoul ShrivenGame at veteran level is a hell, reminds me game in Dark Souls, my DK died so many time that I lost count, game ceases to give pleasure1 -
Worstluck✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »
Just been watching an e3 interview with Fiore and I've just given up now.
Do you have the link ? Now you made me curious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krM3ffio3ds
Not sure if this is what he's referring to, but here is an interview done yesterday with Matt Firor.Worstluck - Breton Nightblade "Some of us refused to bow. We knew the old ways would lead us back to having a kingdom of our own."
―Madanach
Elfluck - Dunmer Dragonknight "When I will walk the earth again, the Faithful among you shall receive your reward: to be set above all other mortals forever. As for the rest: the weak shall be winnowed: the timid shall be cast down: the mighty shall tremble at my feet and pray for pardon."
―Mehrunes Dagon
Deadluck -Imperial Templar "Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour"
―Uriel Septim
Daggerfall Covenant1 -
Lunerdog✭✭✭✭✭Some folks are saying the level of difficulty is ridiculous.
Some folks are saying its just fine.
Some folk concentrate on insulting each other, (strewth).
While I can cope with the difficulty (sometimes) all I know is that I'm BORED to tears with being in difficult combat in the Vet zones, we all like a good scrap but it's over the top when its continuous like this.
Plus these zones are largely empty, no help at hand if you need and want it.
Regardless of all of your opinions, something has to change.2 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »silent88b14_ESO wrote: »So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.
Erm...not according to the poll
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest
I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority
When that 'vocal minority' is 45% of your customer base it's something to panic about not to proffer as a sign that everything is cool.
exactly, if 45% of folk at my work thought i was doing a bad job i'd probably get fired.
Not if the other 55% thought you were doing just fine surely
Not really.
If my business lost that many customers because they werent happy with an employee you can bet hed be let go, quick.2 -
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »
Yup, here's the problem. You are assuming that hundreds of thousands are playing the game and loving it. I am telling you that they are losing subs in droves whether you want to believe it or not.
Right so you have explicit declarations for each of those thousands that it was specifically the game difficulty that caused them to unsub? No
Then stop using the falling numbers of subs to try to prove a completely different argument. Is the game losing subs....yes. Is it specifically because the content is too hard..... NO!
Did you personally interview them on their way out?
The ones on my list specifically told me why they left.0 -
Worstluck✭✭✭✭✭You know what's funny about that poll they keep quoting? It was started before the 1.1.2 patch. If you had asked me about veteran content before 1.1.2, whether it was too difficult, I would have said no.
Post 1.1.2? It's ridiculously hard in some areas. They buffed up the NPC damage for some unknown reason, didn't put it in the patch notes, messed it up by doubling HP, did a hotfix for that, left them doing insane damage. That's what really bothers me about this whole thing. Stealth buffs and nerfs, no communication except that they want to 'improve' veteran zones. Couple that with the fact their plans for this game over the next year include a veteran dungeon, armor dying, and....well, that's all that they have said is for sure.Worstluck - Breton Nightblade "Some of us refused to bow. We knew the old ways would lead us back to having a kingdom of our own."
―Madanach
Elfluck - Dunmer Dragonknight "When I will walk the earth again, the Faithful among you shall receive your reward: to be set above all other mortals forever. As for the rest: the weak shall be winnowed: the timid shall be cast down: the mighty shall tremble at my feet and pray for pardon."
―Mehrunes Dagon
Deadluck -Imperial Templar "Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour"
―Uriel Septim
Daggerfall Covenant2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭@Dayv
Fair enough. I didnt see it that way. As long as there is "hard" encounters in Craglorn.....maybe it should be "normal" difficulty too.
I do think one sided at times. Yeah, casual players should have something to do in Graglorn, but not expecting to faceroll a trial.
No one ever said anything about facerolling a trial.
That strawman did. Over there. He heard it distinctly.4 -
Arundo✭✭✭✭✭Funny thing is I'm spending more time on this damn topic then actually ingame, just because I CBA to log in. Never happened before on a new MMO, heck I played SWTOR far more then ESO three months after launch.
Ah well I will just wait and see, if they fix something I might play more. Dont care what, buff certain classes and builds so not only staff and cloth is the most viable option out there. Or nerf trash so not every fight feels like killing a raid boss.
PS @Worstluck thanks for sharing that video
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Dayv✭✭✭✭Funny thing is I'm spending more time on this damn topic then actually ingame, just because I CBA to log in. Never happened before on a new MMO, heck I played SWTOR far more then ESO three months after launch.
Ah well I will just wait and see, if they fix something I might play more. Dont care what, buff certain classes and builds so not only staff and cloth is the most viable option out there. Or nerf trash so not every fight feels like killing a raid boss.
PS @Worstluck thanks for sharing that video
I'm feeling the same. I don't remember any action movie where the hero confronts the minor henchmen by incapaciting them for a short while, hits them doing poxy damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapaitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again, does minor damage, incapacitates them again.......................................Edited by Dayv on June 12, 2014 7:17PM3
