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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Overall Gameplay too difficult?
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steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭I dunno. It depends how many of those left handed people it took to stop giving your business money because you were pissing them off for you to have to shut down or start selling something else doesn't it?
Or how many of them that have to *** off before the loss of income is reflected in a fall-off of quality and number of improvements.
But as Zenimax, to judge from their roadmaps and E3 inteviews, are going full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes i expect you'll all find out.0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭denicolad16_ESO wrote: »I think the difficulty level is perfect. Why do i want to run around one hitting everything? There is no fun in that. I like being able to worry if I am going to die or not and then getting pissed when I do. Keeps me on my toes. I'm not being facetious either. If you wan't a game that you can prance around and kill everything with no problem go play Mabinogi or something.
Really ?
Are we saying we want to one hit everything.
Go troll somewhere else please.
No... but we are saying you can level and even solo world bosses and the Group Public Dungeons if you are smart about your build/use of abilities...
The people not able to do it are not willing to change i`d bet as i have even leveled a Dual Wield Sorc in Vet content and it was fine. We have families in our guild and the kids there can do it too...
But i`m telling you its not the game. It was never the game.
That said, ask for different difficulties... just don`t make that easy one the only option.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 3:24PM0 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »They should rename this thread to "How many of you are really bad players unable to complete a game on anything else but EASY or VERY EASY?"
They should ban condescending elitists like you
As the poll here shows most have no problem, its just the few bad players that are unable to do it. Why would they ban me... not my fault nature did not give some the reflexes or brain power to play a game.
I did say they should maybe add a difficulty slider for all the little girls out there unable to do it... but don`t make it sound like its a problem for most people, its not.
The poll i mentioned:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content/p1
You do know that a forum poll is in no way a scientific poll and hardly indicative of anything other than what a small minority think of an issue, right?
Anyone with any background in statistics at all would tell you that.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭
You do know that a forum poll is in no way a scientific poll and hardly indicative of anything other than what a small minority think of an issue, right?
Anyone with any background in statistics at all would tell you that.
Yeah but the small minority in this thread before the poll was published were suggesting that only a very small number of hardcore players were happy with the difficulty. Funny how the 'small minority' tag swaps hands when it suits isn't it.
Oh and by the way, although the sample size of the poll cannot be statisticaly significant the trend within the poll defiantly is statistically significant so at least within the limited sample size there was a definite trend toward content being challenging but not too difficult.Edited by Hilgara on June 12, 2014 1:20PM0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »silent88b14_ESO wrote: »So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.
Erm...not according to the poll
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest
I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority
When that 'vocal minority' is 45% of your customer base it's something to panic about not to proffer as a sign that everything is cool.
exactly, if 45% of folk at my work thought i was doing a bad job i'd probably get fired.
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Mescalamba✭✭✭"Issue" in this game is, that you need to find balance in your character and maybe even plan using skill calculators ahead, then maybe test on PTS.
This game simply isnt "braindead". Plus you need to be quite a bit adaptable, if one tactics doesnt work, employ another one.
What is quite real issue is EU server being in US, which given game is evolving a lot around quick reflexes (its closer to FPS than MMO, and I love that part) sucks terribly for EU players.
When and if that changes, game will be much easier to EU players. Right now, you sometimes need to learn how AI behaves and predict it as if you are clairvoyant.
Proud owner of personal vampire and werewolf army (4 werewolves/4 vampires)..
I'm also using large doses of irony and sarcasm.
Plus Im mean person, cause I really dont have reason to like you. Or anyone.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gee, @Hilgara, stop:) I don't mean I suck, I mean it's harder than non vet and suddenly you actually have to plan your fight. I also don't mean it's bad, just that it's a very sudden change when most ppl don't expect one.
And when I get caught by surprise, I very much can be killed by those 2 - 2 missed heavy attacks is enough. And before you say, yes, I usually try to avoid heavy but I often don't see mobs in time. Not saying I get killed by 2 often but it's possible, and it's a huge contrast with non vet.Edited by Magdalina on June 12, 2014 2:23PM1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Two wrongs hardly make a right , and two sets of monkeys hurling feces at each other still wind up in the same situation.
You do know that a forum poll is in no way a scientific poll and hardly indicative of anything other than what a small minority think of an issue, right?
Anyone with any background in statistics at all would tell you that.
Yeah but the small minority in this thread before the poll was published were suggesting that only a very small number of hardcore players were happy with the difficulty. Funny how the 'small minority' tag swaps hands when it suits isn't it.
Gameplay experiences will always be subjective, and unless/until ZOS releases numbers, our best guess on the impact of their game design will be just that - a guess.
Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭Gee, @Hilgara, stop:) I don't mean I suck, I mean it's harder than non vet. I CAN kill 2 mobs, have a fighting chance against 3, heal vet dungeons and can solo some world bosses. My point is trash actually CAN kill me now, too. .
GOOD! That's a proper game. They can kill me too if I mess up and that makes me really really not want to mess up. Your are supposed to be surrounded by powerful foes who want to eat your liver. It should feel that way. That is immersion!Edited by Hilgara on June 12, 2014 1:24PM1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »silent88b14_ESO wrote: »So the difficulty looks good to you and, let's say 20% of the player base.
Erm...not according to the poll
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99207/how-much-trouble-do-you-have-with-veteran-content#latest
I've said all along through this thread. Its the vocal minority having trouble. But you still want to ruin the game for the majority
When that 'vocal minority' is 45% of your customer base it's something to panic about not to proffer as a sign that everything is cool.
exactly, if 45% of folk at my work thought i was doing a bad job i'd probably get fired.
Not if the other 55% thought you were doing just fine surely0 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Its not impossible that I have to rethink the whole thing in Craglorn........but in ESO, your play skill actually matters.....
This is the fulcrum this whole argument is balanced on. Should player skill matter? Not just in dungeons but as a requirement to achieve a high level. For me achieving a high level should be an indication of the level of skill the player has. And before anyone asks, yeah I would stop the anomaly exploits in a heart beat, or any other means to circumvent the game.
you have a bass-ackwards view on skill then. i ground out to vet 12 on a templar.. do i feel skilled? not really. What it took was patience nothing more. it was attrition not skilll.
ask yourself where is the extra skill in killing mobs with 2 times the hit points as opposed to half as much? it just takes longer and mistakes get punished more. this doesnt mean you make less mistakes. you just die when you do as opposed to survive the odd mistake.
you can be terribad and get to vet 12 . i know i see them all the time. it just takes the will to grind out what is unrewarding overly punishing content.
WILL and SKILL are two seperate things altogether and you don't seem able to grasp that.
now the problem is that there are large swathes of folk who don't have the WILL to grind out vet mode cos its long and unrewarding.. this doesnt mean they lack the reqiured skill. They just don't feel its worth their time and go and find something thats more fun instead.
Edited by hamon on June 12, 2014 1:32PM4 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭
You do know that a forum poll is in no way a scientific poll and hardly indicative of anything other than what a small minority think of an issue, right?
Anyone with any background in statistics at all would tell you that.
Yeah but the small minority in this thread before the poll was published were suggesting that only a very small number of hardcore players were happy with the difficulty. Funny how the 'small minority' tag swaps hands when it suits isn't it.
I don`t have time to reply to every thread where we have people crying that they can`t beat an easy game... i only do it because i`m afraid otherwise they will change and make it too easy.
They should close all threads like this one without any video of how that player plays...
There is a lvl 28 World boss(Storm Attronach) in the AD content you can`t CC, the first one immune to CC. I solo him at about level 30 when i reach him every time(i do all the quests/explore so i`m usually 1-2-3 levels above the content). I have seen lvl 30-32ish NB`s and DK`s soloing it. I play a sorcerer and was also able to solo it. I have also seen 2-3 people die to him and i have seen VR 1-4 people die to him.
I can see how the people that can`t kill it with a group or the VR player that get killed are having trouble in the VR content, but i don`t see why we should balance the game so that its soloable by players of that skill level.
If you are having problems then LEARN TO *** PLAY. Watch streams, look up builds that work, look at how players are using the builds and so on. I`ve seen people spam the DOT skill the Templar has multiple times on an NPC to kill it... i`ve seen sorcerers spam the execute skill trying to kill an NPC... its normal that player will die horribly in the VET content and he should unless he improves. I myself kicked tanks out of dungeons as they had NO attribute points in health and apparently no HP on his gear either... so he would get 1 shotted by anything and everything. You can`t help that kind of player, he doesn`t even want help, he just wants to do it his way and cries that he can`t.
That said, if you want to improve go look at builds on Tamriel Foundry, Youtube or Twitch. Look at how others use your class and what they are doing.
Good luck.0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »but i`m telling you its not the game. It was never the game.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
The only thing is common me and that guy have is glasses... I have social skills i just dislike weak people trying to change everything so they can do it... it should not happen in a game. A game is not a mandatory thing, you can`t do it, move on.
My point is valid, you are playing a game that many(hundreds of thousands) had no problem playing...
So man up and try harder.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 6:18PM2 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭
GOOD! That's a proper game. They can kill me too if I mess up and that makes me really really not want to mess up. Your are supposed to be surrounded by powerful foes who want to eat your liver. It should feel that way. That is immersion!
Yea. Mud crabs. Skeevers, passing bandits - not those werewolves, vampires and storm atronoch panty-waist trash we dealt with before.
These are the real threat. Fear my sticks and fear the fact I'm not wearing anything under my dress.
But y'all enjoy being so awesome. Just remember, in 12 months time.
We told you so.
And as Zenimax agree that this is a minority, hard core game you've won.
King Pyrrhus salutes you.
Edited by steveb16_ESO46 on June 12, 2014 1:44PM3 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »but i`m telling you its not the game. It was never the game.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
The only thing is common me and that guy have is glasses...
My point is valid, you are playing a game that many(hundreds of thousands) had no problem playing...
So man up and try harder.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
Whether you like it or not, or whether you approve of it or not, casual gamers make up a significant portion of MMOs like ESO, and alienating (or insulting) them won't endear them to your point of view.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 6:19PMCrotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"5 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »But y'all enjoy being so awesome. Just remember, in 12 months time.
We told you so.
You keep saying this but repetition doesn't make it fact. And even if the game fails you would still need to prove it was specifically due to the difficulty and not the other 101 reasons that people have given for quitting already so you really are wasting your breath.
If you are dying to mud crabs and skeevers then yes you really do need to L2P and much as I have tried to avoid that phrase there can be no other response if this is the case.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »It doesn't matter whether people find the content too difficult, whether they find it too boring, or whether they simply don't want to be forced to adopt limited builds.
If the net result is people letting their subs lapse at a rate in great excess to the number of new subs then ESO will either fold, go FTP or limp along as some sort of niche game.
I just want Zen to say one way or another. If this is just another boring combat grinder dressed up in a few ESO rags then tell us. If all we have to look forward to is what a lot of us find a joyless grind whether it is doable or not, tell us and we and our money will be on our way.
So the fact that the entire game is designed like that isn`t saying anything to you? You want a personal message saying "hey dude, yea we made it like this so... you know... maybe this was our design?"
Its not harder than Skyrim on the Master difficulty... or even the one below that one. Why so much crying? Most MMO`s are *** easy, go play those... or is it your mission to somehow try and change the one good medium difficulty AAA MMO there is?
EDIT: Before anyone says anything more... we are a gaming community and even the girlfriend and wives of some players managed to reach VR12 via questing, same as their kids.... some died more some died less, none went "oh no mommy its too hard".
So why can`t you?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
yeah, sorry but I have to agree with this. I know the guy is supposed to be on my side of the debate but he really isn't helping with the Neanderthal crap lol
Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 4:30PM4 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭
The female gamers in question are casual gamers that only play it as a family thing. Most of the men there have been with us since 2004... so they are no longer casual.alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »It doesn't matter whether people find the content too difficult, whether they find it too boring, or whether they simply don't want to be forced to adopt limited builds.
If the net result is people letting their subs lapse at a rate in great excess to the number of new subs then ESO will either fold, go FTP or limp along as some sort of niche game.
I just want Zen to say one way or another. If this is just another boring combat grinder dressed up in a few ESO rags then tell us. If all we have to look forward to is what a lot of us find a joyless grind whether it is doable or not, tell us and we and our money will be on our way.
So the fact that the entire game is designed like that isn`t saying anything to you? You want a personal message saying "hey dude, yea we made it like this so... you know... maybe this was our design?"
Its not harder than Skyrim on the Master difficulty... or even the one below that one. Why so much crying? Most MMO`s are *** easy, go play those... or is it your mission to somehow try and change the one good medium difficulty AAA MMO there is?
EDIT: Before anyone says anything more... we are a gaming community and even the girlfriend and wives of some players managed to reach VR12 via questing, same as their kids.... some died more some died less, none went "oh no mommy its too hard".
So why can`t you?
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
Stop trying to attack me or what i say, focus on the topic. The point was that the casual players that adapted and got some help managed to do it easily. So get help if you can`t do it but stop asking them to change the entire game for you.
Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 4:31PM0 -
RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »But i`m telling you its not the game. It was never the game.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
The only thing is common me and that guy have is glasses... I have social skills i just dislike weak people trying to change everything so they can do it... it should not happen in a game. A game is not a mandatory thing, you can`t do it, move on.
My point is valid, you are playing a game that many(hundreds of thousands) had no problem playing...
So man up and try harder.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]
Yup, here's the problem. You are assuming that hundreds of thousands are playing the game and loving it. I am telling you that they are losing subs in droves whether you want to believe it or not.Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 4:34PM4 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »
Yup, here's the problem. You are assuming that hundreds of thousands are playing the game and loving it. I am telling you that they are losing subs in droves whether you want to believe it or not.
Right so you have explicit declarations for each of those thousands that it was specifically the game difficulty that caused them to unsub? No
Then stop using the falling numbers of subs to try to prove a completely different argument. Is the game losing subs....yes. Is it specifically because the content is too hard..... NO!
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭Mescalamba wrote: »"Issue" in this game is, that you need to find balance in your character and maybe even plan using skill calculators ahead, then maybe test on PTS.
This game simply isnt "braindead". Plus you need to be quite a bit adaptable, if one tactics doesnt work, employ another one.
What is quite real issue is EU server being in US, which given game is evolving a lot around quick reflexes (its closer to FPS than MMO, and I love that part) sucks terribly for EU players.
When and if that changes, game will be much easier to EU players. Right now, you sometimes need to learn how AI behaves and predict it as if you are clairvoyant.
What is wrong is that the classes are broken....BROKEN. That's obvious and even they admitted it.
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »denicolad16_ESO wrote: »I think the difficulty level is perfect. Why do i want to run around one hitting everything? There is no fun in that. I like being able to worry if I am going to die or not and then getting pissed when I do. Keeps me on my toes. I'm not being facetious either. If you wan't a game that you can prance around and kill everything with no problem go play Mabinogi or something.
Really ?
Are we saying we want to one hit everything.
Go troll somewhere else please.
No... but we are saying you can level and even solo world bosses and the Group Public Dungeons if you are smart about your build/use of abilities...
The people not able to do it are not willing to change i`d bet as i have even leveled a Dual Wield Sorc in Vet content and it was fine. We have families in our guild and the kids there can do it too...
I don`t know what kind of adult cries like a little princess because they can`t complete content a lot of kids actually complete just fine but i`m telling you its not the game. It was never the game.
That said, ask for different difficulties... just don`t make that easy one the only option.
It's because of the phasing that people are leaving. Why play an MMO as a single player game. It's pure stupidity.
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RianaTheBosmer✭✭✭fredarbonab14_ESO wrote: »I like the difficulty level of ESO as is, and no this game is NOT made for the casual, they got 10 other games to choose from today. And no you can't be all things to all players. Try and then ESO would not be any different in any way or form than its competitors.
Some bosses still need tweaking and surely will be somewhat changed, but I hope they do not water down the game to the average or least-common denominator player. I would also keep my eye on the hard-core PvPer, he is one high-maintenance, in-your-face aggressive type that makes everything not fun; the forums, life for the developers or fellow players. They also zoom to max and always threatening to quit if not kept entertained. Focus on upper-half PVErs and pay lip service to the rest.
Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
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Reykice✭✭✭✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »
Yup, here's the problem. You are assuming that hundreds of thousands are playing the game and loving it. I am telling you that they are losing subs in droves whether you want to believe it or not.
Right so you have explicit declarations for each of those thousands that it was specifically the game difficulty that caused them to unsub? No
Then stop using the falling numbers of subs to try to prove a completely different argument. Is the game losing subs....yes. Is it specifically because the content is too hard..... NO!
Exactly... i know all about the subs we feel it in our gaming community too.
But when we talked on TS about it(we were giving out builds for people to use and level with no issue) most of the problems were bug related or PvP class balance or the lack of content at VR10(we did this before Craglorn came out as that`s when most were unsubbing)
The VR difficulty is usually a plus, most like it especially after they find a build that works... its challenging but not impossible. That`s why i asked most to figure out a build that works for them before complaining.
ZENIMAX said that you can play however you want and its true. They never claimed every build will be viable or equal... i can tell you from personal experience as a theory crafter for the Sorcerer class: i could solo most content(some VR world bosses i did not find a way to solo yet) with some builds while with others i die endlessly. It is what it is and i doubt they will ever balance the builds perfectly as some skills are simply situational and will never be as good at others for solo PvE.1 -
Hilgara✭✭✭✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
There you go again. Where are you getting 'minority' from. How do you know that the people not finding the difficulty too hard are in the minority? You are making this crap up. Unless you can produce figures then all you can do is say is YOU find it too difficult.
Edited by Hilgara on June 12, 2014 2:10PM1 -
GreySix✭✭✭✭✭
✭The one thing we can all agree on is that ESO is losing subs.
What remains unknown are the primary causes, especially in light of ZOS not asking folks why they are unsubscribing, or releasing such information even if they did.Crotchety Old Man Guild
"Hey you, get off my lawn!"0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭RianaTheBosmer wrote: »Then you agree when the dev stop releasing content for you all to grind through that the game was for the elitest. More power to you and those like you. You are not paying the bills, the minority can't pay the dev, server, etc bills.
Hey - don't you remember what stunning successes hard-core one dimensional combat grinders are? That's why there's so many of them.
Give it up. Zen have clearly no interest in a wider market. They've decided that the VR difficulty is fine, that new content goes only to those who find this sort of stuff entertaining and from the deafening chirp of crickets - that they have no issues with builds.
Just been watching an e3 interview with Fiore and I've just given up now.0 -
Feimerdre✭✭✭✭When Warhammer released (wich was very much considered to be DAoC2 from a big part of the community) I rolled an elven swordsmaster and unlike all the rest of my friends stuffed him defensively. I went pretty much straightforward in my planning. In the end I was able (with around Level 20 or 25 dont exactly remember) to duo keeps together with a healer. Of course I felt insanely proud of what I achieved - the devs took pretty fast care of that
From this point of view I understand the base of the community that wants to faceroll content. ESO has become ridiculously easy below 50, I soloed two of the group dungeons. You feel like "God" - you did everything right on planning your character. When I hit Vet1 and entered the first Vet content I was rudely reminded that I am a mortal after all and my enemies had gotten a remarkable upgrade in their abilities. For the first time I realized something like a KI actually taking place. Before V1 I steamrolled groups of 3 or 4 enemies and heard someone crying to move back but everything dropped before this happened. In V1 this actually happens (if you dont CC fast) and it makes a differnce! Fighters are meatshielding healers, casters and bowmen move back to avoid CC/AE. I pretty much LIKE this! Just as I liked it to be a God I think.
I am a bit with the ones saying this is hardmode. As well as I am with the ones saying its not because ESO gives you plenty of possibilities to adapt. There is a playerbase saying its not "their" game as they were thinking eg. a templar with 2 healing quickbars would be viable. The "play as you like" argument is a bit overstressed in my eyes. It is a fact that it narrows down on a few viable builds in the wild being successfully soloing the Vet content. I do not think it should be made a lot easier. But I do think some guys or Community Managers should have balls to come and tell us that the only way to solo Vet content is to adapt your skillset. This would be the truth noone is saying loud.4 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »
if you actually read my posts you would see i,m already vet 12 on my templar (yes templar thats as hard as it gets due to being the weakest class) ive been vet 12 for weeks now.. So i,m not crying about anything.
however unlike you i empathise with others who find it overly frustrating. it was overly frustrating and the fake difficulty didnt fool me into thinking i was tough or manly or particularly skilled. just cos i ground it out.
seriously where is the moderation in this thread? they should stop you from embarrasing yourself
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]Edited by ZOS_UlyssesW on June 14, 2014 5:59PM7