Tobiz wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Tobiz wrote: »

This is also a reason why I belive the people at max level are doing it wrong. You should be experiencing the content to get to 12, not go to 12 to experience the content.

I have trouble saying ALL at end game are doing to wrong but....SERVAL long months before I get think about VR12

Ofcourse there are reasons to go to max level first. The content will be easier.
In my opinion, that is not how it was meant to be played by the devs and anyone complaining did it wrong but this is the discussion for another topic...

Aaanyway. No I have not seen any green post about the Zos team acknowledging an issue with stamina concentrated builds. This makes me wonder if were doing it wrong.
Is there a trick to it?
Are clothies supposed to be that much better?
The problem is we have very little known mechanics to rest on.
Im not good enough at numbers that I can say, -This is wrong with this build.
I can only say that I cannot make my stamina builds work against veteran content i.e. 3 vr2 mobs kill me 80% of the time.
Is it intended? Why can a clothie run past me agroing half the delve and aoe it down, when I can barely take out each group of three?
Do I need to L2P?
Does L2P spell out Staff'nCloth?

Well certain builds like an Impulse Spam build just about destroys everything in sight. Seen it in lower level delves. At the same time the "less than optimal" but used to be viable builds even Magicka based struggle with VR content unless they are set up produces strangley high forms of DPS.

VR Content is a VERY questionable subject. Best thing to do is test yourself on say Mudcrabs, Thunderbugs, really just anything that you can find to pull for a good 1-1 fight.

Oh incase people DIDNT know when certain mobs like snakes or spiders go to heal themselves you CAN stun them during as these seem to be channeled abilities lol.

Sidrath wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

UnyieldingFlame wrote: »

my heavy attacks with no critical bonuses is 700 solid damage, with critical and weapons enchantment it is 1000 damage.

IF my Heavy Attack is sustaining 1000 DPS....

I can't believe this needs reminding, but: 700, even a 1000 Heavy Damage swing does not mean 1000 DPS. The animation window for heavy swings takes so long that the actual Damage Per Second is between half and a third of that. I would hazard that the OP's heavy attack damage alone would be maybe 350 DPS sustained.

Please, move away from this fantasy that Heavy Attacks will give high sustained output.

But MAYBE looking at the DPS is the ISSUE. MAYBE there is a different concept hard to explain but lets go back to original EQ.

BEST Damage class had TERRIBLE DPS but VERY strong burst with even lower sustainment. They were simply best used for finishing off mobs at the latter end of their life as the mob hit say 30% it'd go for broke and become DPS machine.

DPS builds work in reverse lower damage but much Higher sustainment creating the Higher DPS.

Also whats the DPS of spamming Light Attack I hear that DPS is actually BETTER than Heavy DPS Spam.

Mykah wrote: »

Alot of complicated ideas for a fairly simple design flaw.

Simple fix: Raise the weapon damage cap. Give medium armor a bonus to weapon damage passive equal to the amount raised by the new cap. Viola, better stamina dps for stamina builds.

Nothing is simple. Raising the weapon cap would also increase staff damage. Is that a good thing?

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sleepydan wrote: »

So to recap, you don't actually have a problem with being who you want to be. Your problem is who you want to be is losing an arbitrary pissing contest with what someone else wants to be. Apparently because you run out of stamina too quickly, period.

That "arbitrary pissing contest" you speak off turns into a bit more of a contest in Cyrodiil. And when there's a leaderboard for trials with winning teams that no stamina build will ever be a part of then it starts to matter more and more.

I'll take a pvp build that does 20-30% less damage but can control my enemy and sustain me. Dps meters don't belong in a pvp environment.

I don't understand why the current paradigm is wrong. Knowing all classes (it's a damn shame we have classes and have to have class abilities at all, we can't chose which skill lines we have out of the total pool) have effective class abilities that use magicka, and every character ever made uses stamina as a built in cc break, dodge mechanic and sprint, why would you expect anything different?

Min maxing dps around getting just enough health to not be one shot, just enough stamina and stamina regen to always dodge and block the bad stuff that gets by the tank and dumping the rest into magicka for high dps is criminal? It's a relatively open ended system, SOMETHING will be the best.

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.

Then there is this guy. Leads me to believe this proposed paradigm of stamina being crap is fantasy. I mean, when it comes down too is, what specifically is magicka better at? Are you saying impulse is more damaging than whirlwind?

What I expect is that after the dust settles and numbers are tweaked, tank type characters will mainly wear heavy armor because more toughness is more.

Melee damage dealers will mainly be stamina based because they are in melee and will have to dodge more than ranged, and stamina will improve their light and heavy attacks the most.

Ranged damage dealers will be mostly magicka based because they will rarely have to dodge, and will to more damaging abilities and less damage in their light and heavy attacks.

Bow users will live in a magical Christmas land where it just works out .

DeLindsay wrote: »

The game isn't going to die because of poor Stamina-based abilities vs Magicka-based abilities. But I agree 100% that they need to balance it so that those who want to run with Medium Armor and Bow/Dual Wield/2H have that option without being excluded from grouping or feeling sub par.

No the game won't die, but they'll certainly lose players over this poorly designed system. I'm proof of that.

I support this thread 100%. Go look at the Two-Handed Mace under Heavy Weapons and tell me why I dispise it. The mace used to be dangerous, but in this game it is confused. 80 armor at V12 is laughable to the point of sickness. Stamina based attackers in this game need balance. This is something all across the board on every single class.

Also for the person making comment on dodge, block, break cc. This doesn't matter if your character is dead. This almost seems as though you set up one more stamina based person to become a target in pve and pvp for failure. If it is that good, let us know. And while you are at it, see how well stamina works with the fast spamming ultimates in both pve and pvp.

SilverWF wrote: »

Paladin_echo1 wrote: »

I support this thread 100%. Go look at the Two-Handed Mace under Heavy Weapons and tell me why I dispise it. The mace used to be dangerous, but in this game it is confused. 80 armor at V12 is laughable to the point of sickness. Stamina based attackers in this game need balance. This is something all across the board on every single class.

Also for the person making comment on dodge, block, break cc. This doesn't matter if your character is dead. This almost seems as though you set up one more stamina based person to become a target in pve and pvp for failure. If it is that good, let us know. And while you are at it, see how well stamina works with the fast spamming ultimates in both pve and pvp.

So how many you want to ignore with mace? 800? Completely?

Magicka builds works bad against "fast spamming ultimates" too, so?

My Melee Ultimate for Templar goes off like none other luckily its AOE so only really worth something in a crowd, 1-1 its MEH.

Te d/

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

The game isn't going to die because of poor Stamina-based abilities vs Magicka-based abilities. But I agree 100% that they need to balance it so that those who want to run with Medium Armor and Bow/Dual Wield/2H have that option without being excluded from grouping or feeling sub par.

No the game won't die, but they'll certainly lose players over this poorly designed system. I'm proof of that.

They do need to include weapons and stamina in this game. It's crazy not to.

I think that they need to fix this so it is not called PVE content. PVE forum is misleading. Stamina absolutely sucks at the moment. I am sad because I used it for a lot of my time playing the game til I found out about magic. I hope it improves very soon though. If they fixed this, I think there would be a lot of satisfied souls appearing more quickly since it is all across the board.

ss.ioannidisnrb18_ESO wrote: »

Tell me....
If the death will be slow why does the solution need to be immediate

Out of all the MMOs Ive played, this is the best one yet. Comically I have yet to find other mmos that haven't been either too cash shop heavy, or feed a bunch of crap to people without performance. Its pretty unique that the people here actually talk to you online in chat when they see an issue. That's happened to me 2 times so far.

For the stamina goes, I hope you keep this thread alive. All we want is to be recognized, appreciated, and helped. Ask the people against this man's thread what kind of builds they rock and notice a lot of times you notice they are magical builds . Not good, but that's why you all must keep fighting. Hopefully more of this happens and we keep a good thing goin for a while.

Daethz wrote: »

Fact:
Right now 6/8/2014
Destro Staff DK > All other forms of DK

As cool as this is, and true being the fact as a DK I dpsed with a WHITE resto staff better than a purple two handed sword 5 levels higher than the staff, I hope for the upgrade of stamina doing stuff. Its getting out of hand the difference in power of magic vs stamina. Magic is at nearly 200% decrease in killing time vs stamina build. Its super fast. After going magic, it depressed me to see I had to retire my swords because of how incredibly fast things are going on ALL of my classes I play.

Daethz wrote: »

Personally I cant stand playing with staffs, id rather unsub.
Mabye in the future when I have more of a mage mindset, probably as a sorc alt, but on my DK its ***, I want to be a powerful melee'er, but thanks to staffs, everything else sucks. And i have a sneaking suspicion veteran content was balanced based on staff-using players. Because some bosses in particular such as storm atronarches are IMPOSSIBLE to even get to half health, even if i START off with my DK standard ultimate. The thing will just continuously hit me with these ~400 damage uninterruptible attacks and kill me rapidly.

That sneaking suspicion is seeming to get to me too. Almost seems like people that are staff users are herding people to their cause and destroying the use of all other weapons. They have done a great job at it so far. They even control the Class Ultimates at the moment. Wonder how they got away with that?

Still waiting for that 1.4k dps screenshot on a trial boss.