Stamina builds need to be address immediately or else this game will die a slow death.

UnyieldingFlame

At this point of time stamina builds are completely useless at endgame, namely trials. Zenimax promise that you would be able to play how you want too without limitation, unfortunately this is downright untrue.

The games current state is at a abysmal situation where staff reign dominance over VR content and 90% of the player base at endgame are using a staff. When the numbers are this high, you can not act if nothing is wrong. Nerfing Destruction and Restoration staff will not solve the problem occurring at this moment and will only drive more subscribers away from the game.

A proposal to balance stamina builds so they are viable at endgame is to increase the regen cap and decrease cost of all stamina related abilities in the game including CC'ed breaks, dodge rolling, and etc.

I too play a stamina build and it is frustrating to see that I can not compete in trials against all the other staff wielder DPS users in the group. When I mention I'm am using a stamina build, the only thing that happens is a instant kick or no re-invite the next run. This only drive more people away from the game and slowly gives it a painful death.

Please comment and give suggested for balancing stamina, and please no trolls on this serious discussion. Accidentally posted in the wrong forum section, moderator please delete my thread in the PvE Discussion section of the forums. Thank you!

Arora

find a group of friends and run with them, instead of random parties then and you wont have this problem, they are already aware and addressing the problem it takes time to recode, why are you people so impatient, grind out a second character you will eventually anyways. Or start grinding out secondary weapons and Armour.

Rammanjeff

Stamina builds need to be address immediately or else this game will CONTINUE TO die a slow death.

Fixed that for you!

UnyieldingFlame

Arora wrote: »

find a group of friends and run with them, instead of random parties then and you wont have this problem, they are already aware and addressing the problem it takes time to recode, why are you people so impatient, grind out a second character you will eventually anyways. Or start grinding out secondary weapons and Armour.

Sadly this above poster is a example of the elitist attitude that have stain this game badly for newcomers and other people who like to play the game differently. Also was playing with friends in a trials and had no death till the last boss in AA where the dps was not high enough and we wipe because melee users have severely low dps compare to magicka users. Was not re invited because I am using a stamina build.

When I am only dishing out 600-800 dps with melee and a magic user is doing 1200 dps 2x more then me then there is a problem with the lack of balance in this game. Plus when did Zenimax said they are addressing this issue? Three months later when the game is free to play? Don't act like you know about coding since making balance changes isn't quite difficult as you might suspect compare to scripting or 3D modeling.

Izzban

I don't understand why they put all the cc breaks on stamina-only in the first place. Seems like nobody thought that out.

How about cc breaks, rolls, etc take equal amounts of stamina and magicka?

Makes far more sense. Might make stamina builds more viable.

I think it's a fast solution, though the code-monkeys might disagree...

Shaun98ca2

OP if your a full Stamina build whats your Weapon of Choice and how much damage does your Heavy Attack do? Whats your VR Rank?

Loco_Mofo

UnyieldingFlame wrote: »

Arora wrote: »

find a group of friends and run with them, instead of random parties then and you wont have this problem, they are already aware and addressing the problem it takes time to recode, why are you people so impatient, grind out a second character you will eventually anyways. Or start grinding out secondary weapons and Armour.

Sadly this above poster is a example of the elitist attitude that have stain this game badly for newcomers and other people who like to play the game differently. Also was playing with friends in a trials and had no death till the last boss in AA where the dps was not high enough and we wipe because melee users have severely low dps compare to magicka users. Was not re invited because I am using a stamina build.

When I am only dishing out 600-800 dps with melee and a magic user is doing 1200 dps 2x more then me then there is a problem with the lack of balance in this game. Plus when did Zenimax said they are addressing this issue? Three months later when the game is free to play? Don't act like you know about coding since making balance changes isn't quite difficult as you might suspect compare to scripting or 3D modeling.

Couldn't agree more with this post.

There are no real workarounds to this issue. You either gimp yourself using a stamina build or you follow this ridiculous meta and chuck on light armor and a staff.

This is my number 1 problem with the game. It really should be priority over everything else IMO, it's the reason I unsubbed and I'm sure I'm not alone.

UnyieldingFlame

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

OP if your a full Stamina build whats your Weapon of Choice and how much damage does your Heavy Attack do? Whats your VR Rank?

I am VR12 and using a hybrid magicka and stamina build however most of my incoming damage is driven from my stamina resources. My choice of class is a Sorcerer dual-wielder basically a spell sword or reaver build. I am duel wielding two legendary swords and have a full set of legendary Hircine's Veneer gear. And my average dps is 500-800, heavy attacks does around a thousand damage when my enchantments are not on a four second cool down.

Also my weapon critical is above 40% and can manage insane self-healing so my build is very viable but the dps is just not sustainable at all sadly.

Shaun98ca2

UnyieldingFlame wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

OP if your a full Stamina build whats your Weapon of Choice and how much damage does your Heavy Attack do? Whats your VR Rank?

I am VR12 and using a hybrid magicka and stamina build however most of my incoming damage is driven from my stamina resources. My choice of class is a Sorcerer dual-wielder basically a spell sword or reaver build. I am duel wielding two legendary swords and have a full set of legendary Hircine's Veneer gear. And my average dps is 500-800, heavy attacks does around a thousand damage when my enchantments are not on a four second cool down.

Also my weapon critical is above 40% and can manage insane self-healing so my build is very viable but the dps is just not sustainable at all sadly.

So you can sustain 700 DPS with Heavy Attack alone leaving Stamina avaible Dodge Block Stun CC Break.

Wanna make sure im getting the # straight. I Picked 700 as it sounded like good point for sustained DPS between 500-800 with JUST Heavy Attack Alone.

Bolo_Bob

Beta is for tweeking, live is for minor tweeks.

this stamina issue should have already been identified awhile back.

apparently many issue's were still present from beta, guess they dont care or enjoy doing things half-donkey style.

i have given up and only play still just because my friend still does, but i dont really care how the game "balance" goes from now on.
so i staff and light armor now, because that is all there is to this game now.

pretty sad really.
even my neighbor seen it on sale 50% off recently and i told him "good thing you didnt waste your money on it."

Izzban

I think it is ridiculous that the problem has made it this far. It is obvious that stamina is intended for dodges/breaks and to supplement your magicka attacks. Therefore, maxing magicka will yield better results since it's not a shared pool.

Why can't dodges, blocks, and breaks take equally from stamina and magicka?

Shaun98ca2

Izzban wrote: »

I think it is ridiculous that the problem has made it this far. It is obvious that stamina is intended for dodges/breaks and to supplement your magicka attacks. Therefore, maxing magicka will yield better results since it's not a shared pool.

Why can't dodges, blocks, and breaks take equally from stamina and magicka?

Well Stamina builds really only (supposedly as Im not VR) become bad at VR. 1-50 Stamina builds wreck face harder than any Magicka build.

jimmulvaney

I noticed something interesting the other day... running my 2h nord dk I noticed my stats suggested I do 6 points more damage with dual wielding swords than with any 2h of same rank n make and my dw was only in its 30s my 2h is maxed out... how is that possible? I mean if my stamina costs are going to be higher and attacks slower why do I inflict less damage? That is not how these roles are supposed to be designed. Rogues have speed and precision with moderate defense, warriors have strength and high defense but lack speed and precision, spell casters can have anything they want so long as the resources are available to them and always lack natural defense. I mean, this is basic rpg stuff!

Shaun98ca2

jimmulvaney wrote: »

I noticed something interesting the other day... running my 2h nord dk I noticed my stats suggested I do 6 points more damage with dual wielding swords than with any 2h of same rank n make and my dw was only in its 30s my 2h is maxed out... how is that possible? I mean if my stamina costs are going to be higher and attacks slower why do I inflict less damage? That is not how these roles are supposed to be designed. Rogues have speed and precision with moderate defense, warriors have strength and high defense but lack speed and precision, spell casters can have anything they want so long as the resources are available to them and always lack natural defense. I mean, this is basic rpg stuff!

Which abilities are you referring to exactly out of curiosity for the 2hand versus Dual Wield.

cuz_mike200

You are probably best off making friends who r stamina builds, form a guild even and make sure you advertise if allowed.

jimmulvaney

Izzban wrote: »

I think it is ridiculous that the problem has made it this far. It is obvious that stamina is intended for dodges/breaks and to supplement your magicka attacks. Therefore, maxing magicka will yield better results since it's not a shared pool.

Why can't dodges, blocks, and breaks take equally from stamina and magicka?

Or have a passive that lets you use magica in place of stamina for non skill-type actions, like dodge, block and interrupt?

jimmulvaney

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Which abilities are you referring to exactly out of curiosity for the 2hand versus Dual Wield.

No skill in particular just going by character screen stats. All I was doing was switching between weapon sets for my 2h R1 Calcinium great sword and 2 of my R1 Calcinium swords. 114 vs 120. My 2h skill at lvl 50 with all passives, my dw in early 30s with 3 passives.

cabbageub17_ESO

Or a Fighters Guild skill or something that transforms Magicka to Stamina.

Shaun98ca2

jimmulvaney wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Which abilities are you referring to exactly out of curiosity for the 2hand versus Dual Wield.

No skill in particular just going by character screen stats. All I was doing was switching between weapon sets for my 2h R1 Calcinium great sword and 2 of my R1 Calcinium swords. 114 vs 120.

Hmmm If you ever get the opportunity you should compare your Heavy Attack Damage with both Weapons.

UnyieldingFlame

cuz_mike200 wrote: »

You are probably best off making friends who r stamina builds, form a guild even and make sure you advertise if allowed.

Very funny how people don't read or understand the discussion. Instead you are suggesting to deal with the current mishap that is over taking the game right now. And just put a bandage over it to solve my problem? Laughable and just bleak of you to say that!

Shaun98ca2

The BEST thing somebody can do is grab hard numbers and display full Stamina Versus full Magicka make sure to include Light/Heavy Attacks for both and show some numbers.

A video is even louder than numbers on a forum but either is nice really just for good comparision.

jimmulvaney

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Hmmm If you ever get the opportunity you should compare your Heavy Attack Damage with both Weapons.

I would if I hadn't already unsubbed, today being my last day I shall return in July if things improve.

Shaun98ca2

jimmulvaney wrote: »

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Hmmm If you ever get the opportunity you should compare your Heavy Attack Damage with both Weapons.

I would if I hadn't already unsubbed, today being my last day I shall return in July if things improve.

Well thanks anyways and GL hopefully its more up to your taste in July.

dragnier

There is an entire thread on this in the PTS forums as well.

Shaun98ca2

dragnier wrote: »

There is an entire thread on this in the PTS forums as well.

HA thanks for linking the thread im already in LOL. Good read though.

jimmulvaney

I'm hoping to be able to roll a new char with my skill progression and skill points in tact, start from lvl 1 without having to do the story over aside from Coldharbour and God of Schemes while making Veteran Rank optional. I know entirely different end game experience but a guy can dream. Aside from that, I have personal reasons for taking a month off but I will keep an eye on the patch notes.

Vis

jimmulvaney wrote: »

Or have a passive that lets you use magica in place.

There may be something to this idea.

UnyieldingFlame

dragnier wrote: »

There is an entire thread on this in the PTS forums as well.

Yes I am very aware of that topic on the PTS forum section however this needs more exposure regrettably.

dragnier

I often wonder if a single combined resource bar might work better...

Just combine Mag and Stam as one bar then make everything cost about 2/3 what it does now...

J/K... but really this stuff needs to get balanced somehow.

Shaun98ca2

Let me reverse the argument.

Magicka builds SUCK theres NO way to maintain the High Level of DPS once OOM the DPS plummets through the floor.

Most our abilities are susceptible to being stunned including our Heavy Attacks which we have to rely on to get back our Magicka.

We get NO kind of Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break compared to that of Stamina build PLUS they get to SPAM Heavy Attacks endlessly producing more DPS than us once we OOM.

Any of our good damage abilities are overly blockable making us waste even more mana and instant abilities are even capable of being reflected back to us or simply nullified all together (Negate Magic).

Stamina builds get Magicka abilities that require NO points in Magicka to be good
increasing their survivability and damage, when our addition pool is Stamina which is required to simply stay alive and never enough of and provide no healing or protection.

So hard facts with unbiased comparison is better than simply complaining.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

Let me reverse the argument.

Magicka builds SUCK theres NO way to maintain the High Level of DPS once OOM the DPS plummets through the floor.

Most our abilities are susceptible to being stunned including our Heavy Attacks which we have to rely on to get back our Magicka.

We get NO kind of Block, Dodge, Stun, CC Break compared to that of Stamina build PLUS they get to SPAM Heavy Attacks endlessly producing more DPS than us once we OOM.

Any of our good damage abilities are overly blockable making us waste even more mana and instant abilities are even capable of being reflected back to us or simply nullified all together (Negate Magic).

Stamina builds get Magicka abilities that require NO points in Magicka to be good
increasing their survivability and damage, when our addition pool is Stamina which is required to simply stay alive and never enough of and provide no healing or protection.

So hard facts with unbiased comparison is better than simply complaining.

I'm sorry if I don't understand what you are saying but it doesn't make much sense.

Do you think you can't block, dodge, break CC with a magica build? You think your magic abilities are "overly" blockable compared to... mundane abilities?

I'm not even sure what the rest means because it's wrong and doesn't make sense either. Is that a proposal or a couldn't-be-more-wrong counterargument?