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Stamina builds need to be address immediately or else this game will die a slow death.
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dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
LOL obviously your DOING IT WRONG lol L2P noob. lol
Well this is something good to hear to be quite honest.
I'd rather see it. A video or a screenshot... Perhaps which damage meter they are using so I can check if there are any differences between it an the one I use.0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I seriously wish someone would post what they are doing that is getting them killed or giving low dps so I could see what is different. I am in full legendary with legendary glyphs. Maybe what passives you have. I am really interested.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.Edited by Shaun98ca2 on June 8, 2014 2:47PM0 -
dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.0 -
Tobiz✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
Would love to see your abilities and some stats and gear, so the rest of us can see why were doing it wrong
Thanks in advance!Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
Would love to see your abilities and some stats and gear, so the rest of us can see why were doing it wrong
Thanks in advance!
Second0 -
dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.0 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you don't have 2k stam, you don't have a stam build.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.Edited by dragnier on June 8, 2014 3:12PM0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.
Not only are they in fear of being nerfed MOST are advocating for a damn BUFF.0 -
dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.
Not only are they in fear of being nerfed MOST are advocating for a damn BUFF.
Occasionally, I wonder if some people even know what dps stands for... maybe they get confused and think that a 1.4k crit = 1.4k dps or something...
Without any screenshots or videos including a valid dps meter, it sounds suspect.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.
Not only are they in fear of being nerfed MOST are advocating for a damn BUFF.
Occasionally, I wonder if some people even know what dps stands for... maybe they get confused and think that a 1.4k crit = 1.4k dps or something...
Without any screenshots or videos including a valid dps meter, it sounds suspect.
True there are no videos comparing Magicka Versus Stamina in an UNBIASED manner highlighting all the possible ups and downs to either argument. Instead its just BLAH BLAH BLAH and NOT EVEN WITH NUMBERS.
When the do have numbers its sounds ridiculously fishy...."I can only sustain 200 DPS at VR12". REALLY my level 39 sustains that with just light attack try again.0 -
Devlinne✭✭✭Ya know i was just imagining the other day. What if they created a feature during character creation that TRULY lets you build your own unique character.
Like for example theres race, class, face, body.....imagine an addtional tab, called "mitgation style?" perhaps...i dunno like i said it's just a random idea i had while i was smoking.
In this tab u could choose whether blocking,cc break, sprinting would take up magicka or stamina OR equal from both.
U think this could work?
Devlinne: VR12 NB
Demonos: VR12 Sorc
Devin Flames: VR12 DK
Hellzanger: VR12 Templar
Thats right. ALL CLASSES.0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
Sustain 1.4k dps? please post a screen shot on a boss of some kind... anything with 15-20k hp or more.
Or are you role playing a true Khajit exaggerating everything?:p1 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
LOL obviously your DOING IT WRONG lol L2P noob. lol
Well this is something good to hear to be quite honest.
As far as i know that`s not possible but he can always prove me wrong...Edited by Reykice on June 8, 2014 3:41PM0 -
Reykice✭✭✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.
They have no fear of being nerfed as they are lying or think that a 1.4k crit = 1.4k dps...
Usually the people who actually know what they are doing and reach high enough numbers back it up with a video or screen shot.... as they know nobody will believe them otherwise.
Also, if you attack and 1shot a mudcrap or something with 1.4k hp in 1 second via crits and prepared hits the DPS meter will show 1.4k dps... as it starts to record once you land the first hit, so for all the dps meter knows you just did 1.4k dps in 1 second...
This is why you need an NPC with 20k + hp...
0 -
Daethz✭✭✭Agreed.
Infact, Melee based DK - Terrible.
Destro Staff DK - BiS, the only "Real" way to go.Waiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild0 -
Tobiz✭✭✭That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
Heres some theorycrafting about armor and dr.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/new-v12-mitigation-armorsr-softhardcap-values/
What "dps bonus for either type" are we talking about?Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.0 -
Tobiz✭✭✭
Lets not jump to insults stright away.alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »
Sustain 1.4k dps? please post a screen shot on a boss of some kind... anything with 15-20k hp or more.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources.
Or are you role playing a true Khajit exaggerating everything?:p
Let @clayandaudrey_ESO reply with his numbers and some form of evidence that he is in fact a stamina heavy build that can sustain this.
Edit: I for one am hoping he is right! But then I want to know the secret
Edited by Tobiz on June 8, 2014 3:54PMAttention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.1 -
dragnier✭✭✭Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »alexandru987eb17_ESO wrote: »Thing is... a stamina build will NEVER do the same dps as a magic build, here is why:
Most of the builds you see DK`s/Sorcs rely on other people casting debuffs or healing them when they use life for magicka... its mostly a group affair. Without that they would be out of magicka in 10 seconds...
They are also using potions, the highest DPS builds pop a potion every 30s mandatory AND most even considered potion CD gear but that would make costs unbearable.
As a stamina based build your biggest sustained dps comes from light/heavy attacks... you use NO resources so you can use stamina/magicka as you wish most of the time. If your heavy/light attacks would do as much dps as the magicka burst builds then it would unbalance the game completely... everyone would be a melee user... EVERYONE.
I know its not easy to hear but as far as dps goes, a magicka build that used potions on cooldown and is using Equilibrium to keep spamming a spell with a 420 magicka cost every 1 second will never be equaled by melee using heavy attacks and using no resource. Never. Ever.
As for active melee skills... right now melee has no reliable way to get stamina back... so you would be out of stamina after 10 seconds just like a magicka build with no way to get magicka back....
Its a long post but i hope it explains it.
EDIT: I`ll also add that the highest numbers you see are only reproduced by a few people, the best ones who never miss one beat out of a 2-4 minute fight with about 100-300 rotations... few people can actually pull that off and not make a mistake.
The very first passive for Light Armor reduces spell costs by 1/2/3% per piece of light armor worn versus the first passive in Medium Armor increasing Weapon Crit by 1/2/3% per piece of medium armor worn.
However, Light Armor also gets a crit passive later (albeit for a five piece set) but nowhere does Medium Armor get any cost reduction to any sort of attacks. Those reductions are all handled in the weapon passives themselves and are at most 10% reduction versus the 21% max reduction from a full 7/7 light armor on spells.
The weapon reduction is 20%... just like the light armor 7/7 bonus, every weapon has it... so you can wear Heavy Armor and still get the reduction.
The Crit for Spell users however uses a skill slot... don`t forget that... Mage Light wastes one of your 5 skill slots.
Its 21% reduction in light armor vs 20% reduction in medium + weapon and 20% crit in light armor but you lose a skill slow vs 21% crit in medium armor.
Its also 10% crit for light armor vs 10% haste for medium, clearly showing that the damage for physical damage builds is designed to come from light/heavy attacks... I`ll also add that for any class with no crit bonus so only a 50% crit bonus, 10% Haste is double the DPS 10% crit adds....
Its not the armor... its the skills themselves, staff skill don`t scale that well either that`s why most magic builds mainly use class skills.... because the staff is also a weapon and as a weapon it has crappy scaling just like Two Handers or Bows or etc...
I stand corrected, I forgot it was a 2 point skill for 10% per. I was thinking it was 5% per point.
You are right about weapons not scaling well, too.
Haste is broken as well, it doesn't apply to Bows or any Staff.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the armor mitigation coefficients versus the ones used for spell resist.
Yes i totally agree on the armor mitigation... i play a light armor character and i used a spell to see if its worth stacking armor... short answer: its not. You barely get any extra mitigation... the only real mitigation is blocking and that doesn`t work all that well in a DPS build.
Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
I heard that somewhere as well, though I don't know what those actual hard cap numbers are...
If soft cap is around 2k and that = 30% mitigation then hard cap could possibly be 3300 or so if it is a linear exchange ( 2000 / 3 = 660 ish = 10% mitigation; therefore 1300 ish = anther 20% mitigation or 2000 + 1300 = 50%), though diminishing returns makes it extremely difficult to get there because you'd have to have another 3900 actual armor value above the soft cap to reach the hard cap.
I don't know if that is actually how it works, but based on the assumption that it is:
Effectively, the only way to hard cap is with at least one skill that provides armor beyond what you can get from gear... (600 x3 jewelry slot and all heavy armor with a shield including heavy armor passives will get you around 2650 or so.) So 3300 - 2600 = 700 which would require an actual 2100 armor value to reach due to diminishing returns. Only one skill I know of has that kind of armor bonus, Bone Shield from Undaunted and it only lasts a few seconds. (If there are any others that give 2100+ armor, feel free to enlighten me as I haven't played every single skill in every single class.)
That means there is no perma hard cap on armor. Of course, there isn't on Spell Resist either.
And that completely throws any dps bonuses for either type out the window.
When you finally reach the hard cap or REALLY close to it you would actually stand out above the rest around you in one fashion.
Stamina Being Hard Capped I can actually fully Imagine being BETTER than Magicka Hard Capped. Magicka requires a resource while Stamina can rely on Light/Heavy Attack. IMAGINE your Light/Heavy Attack with Stamina Hard Capped.
So now your getting closer to say 2k DPS? Based on pushing Stamina to Hard Cap.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »I am a vr12 nightblade. I wear medium armor and I dual wield daggers. I am a khajiit. I have over 60% crit and I use a stamina heavy build. I can sustain 1.4 k dps without running out of resources. I see all these threads and wonder what am I doing different than the masses because lots of people seem to have a problem.
And here I thought we were talking about armor and mitgation... then you go and switch things around to hard capped stamina on me. LoL, though. I can imagine hard capped stamina, still wouldn't compare to hard capped magicka at the moment. And either way, you'd be dead all the time from no health.
Really no im pretty sure we been talking about Stamina its even in the title lol.
As for health....well 1st im certain nobody has even tried to push to hard cap but I imagine you get at least 1 soft cap with it. Lot of VR builds hit MULTIPLE soft caps at the same its with great ease. Maybe Hard Cap + 1 Soft Cap or 2 will allow somebody to differentiate themselves even further while still being viable just not versatile.
Yes, but if you go back and read even your own past posts in this thread by clicking the show previous posts link, you will find we were on the subject of armor mitigation and how it affects stamina builds versus spell resist and its affect on magicka builds.Shaun98ca2 wrote: »Soft Cap I believe was quoted somewhere around 30% and hard cap was 50% providing an extra 20% for those willing to go the "extra mile"
WAY too much effort LOL.
L2Forum... lol, J/K. But seriously. I want to know what these people who say they are hitting 1k+ dps with Stamina builds are doing. Obviously, they don't want to share for fear of being nerfed.
Not only are they in fear of being nerfed MOST are advocating for a damn BUFF.
Occasionally, I wonder if some people even know what dps stands for... maybe they get confused and think that a 1.4k crit = 1.4k dps or something...
Without any screenshots or videos including a valid dps meter, it sounds suspect.
True there are no videos comparing Magicka Versus Stamina in an UNBIASED manner highlighting all the possible ups and downs to either argument. Instead its just BLAH BLAH BLAH and NOT EVEN WITH NUMBERS.
When the do have numbers its sounds ridiculously fishy...."I can only sustain 200 DPS at VR12". REALLY my level 39 sustains that with just light attack try again.
Honestly, scaling between 50 and vr12 isn't that great. The numbers move very little each time. Less per level than from 1- 50 I believe. For example, the soft caps in Cyrodiil are equivalent to level 50 non-veteran if you go there as a veteran player. So the Stamina soft cap there is 1879 but for a v12 outside of Cyrodiil the soft cap is 1965. That's 86 points.
Just going from level 3 to 4 raises the same softcap from 199 to 231, a difference of 32 points. And that increse is not constant because 46 x 32 =1472 add the 231 to that and you get 1703 which is still less than 1879. Therefore the increase isn't linear. Also, that 32 increase from 3-4 is 37% of the increase from 50 to v12.
This could be part of the explanation as to why the dps from a lvl 39 isn't that different from a v12... because the scaling leaps and bounds to start with and then slows to a crawl at veteran levels putting far less space between 50 and v12 than people think there is.0 -
Tobiz✭✭✭In WoW there was a problem with the inflated damage. The mobs had to have so much health for it to pose a challange, that the database could not handle the number. Whatever data type it was.
Having a crawling increase is great, it makes lower level content easier but not so much easier that you can neglect the risk.
Well in theory anyway.
This is also a reason why I belive the people at max level are doing it wrong. You should be experiencing the content to get to 12, not go to 12 to experience the content.Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.0 -
dragnier✭✭✭In WoW there was a problem with the inflated damage. The mobs had to have so much health for it to pose a challange, that the database could not handle the number. Whatever data type it was.
Having a crawling increase is great, it makes lower level content easier but not so much easier that you can neglect the risk.
Well in theory anyway.
This is also a reason why I belive the people at max level are doing it wrong. You should be experiencing the content to get to 12, not go to 12 to experience the content.
There is some truth to this, however, I think they may have erred too far on the side of caution.
Too little increase between levels is stifling and actually makes things harder to balance.0 -
Shaun98ca2✭✭✭✭✭In WoW there was a problem with the inflated damage. The mobs had to have so much health for it to pose a challange, that the database could not handle the number. Whatever data type it was.
Having a crawling increase is great, it makes lower level content easier but not so much easier that you can neglect the risk.
Well in theory anyway.
This is also a reason why I belive the people at max level are doing it wrong. You should be experiencing the content to get to 12, not go to 12 to experience the content.
I have trouble saying ALL at end game are doing to wrong but....SERVAL long months before I get think about VR120 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭
unfortunately light armor and staff will beat that DPS with very little mechanic risk. and why would you not use hundings ? if your primary damage is coming from weapons.UnyieldingFlame wrote: »Shaun98ca2 wrote: »OP if your a full Stamina build whats your Weapon of Choice and how much damage does your Heavy Attack do? Whats your VR Rank?
I am VR12 and using a hybrid magicka and stamina build however most of my incoming damage is driven from my stamina resources. My choice of class is a Sorcerer dual-wielder basically a spell sword or reaver build. I am duel wielding two legendary swords and have a full set of legendary Hircine's Veneer gear. And my average dps is 500-800, heavy attacks does around a thousand damage when my enchantments are not on a four second cool down.
Also my weapon critical is above 40% and can manage insane self-healing so my build is very viable but the dps is just not sustainable at all sadly.
Edited by Wifeaggro13 on June 8, 2014 4:23PM0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭find a group of friends and run with them, instead of random parties then and you wont have this problem, they are already aware and addressing the problem it takes time to recode, why are you people so impatient, grind out a second character you will eventually anyways. Or start grinding out secondary weapons and Armour.
they have never even addressed it's an issue nor even acknowledged it.0
