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Please anything other than armor buff for Templar
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Thal✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »
https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^
Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.
And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.
Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.
This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.
There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.
For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.
You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.
Calculated defense is 6% and you’re at 8k minimum in dungeons already, so it far outstrips 300
Who has 8,000 w/s damage in dungeons? lol
Someone using the Templar mastery?
It’s not particularly difficult 😂
OK. What’s your crit %, crit damage, and penetration with 8,000 w/s damage in a 4-man?
In our organized group, pen and crit damage are capped as well0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭madmufffin wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^
Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.
And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.
Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.
This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.
There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.
For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.
You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.
Let’s not lose focus of the real problems plaguing Templar, as Class Mastery isn’t one of them…
This crusade against our skills doing damage is.
In what world are you not getting 3000 wd/sd on your builds in pve? I'm sitting at 4400 as a Khajiit standing on a rock in Rawl'kha right now. In raid that goes up to 9k+ and Plar's mastery doesn't scale at all. Major force is only sourced from an ult without perfect uptime and major brittle from a monster set without perfect uptime. Both have an opportunity cost of losing an ult/monster set and don't have perfect uptimes like the mastery does. Major heroism isn't remotely sourced in raid and flat unique 6% is absurd as well. Plar doesn't touch any of those for group benefit.
Force and Heroism are both sourced from potions this coming update, Brittle is the only outlier.
Either way, not going to hijack this thread which is clearly about the Passive and not Class Mastery Passive viability, of which I have zero complaints.
If you wanna talk more about this you can message me. 😁Edited by Radiate77 on August 3, 2026 8:51PMDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
It ticks 2 ultimate on EVERY HoT ticking, if your Living Dark is proc’ing off of status effects and you overheal with the return, it’s 4 ultimate a second for one skill… now add Restoring Rune and Extended Ritual + Vigor... If you want to have that conversation, you can message me too.
(server desync created this illusion ^)
I’ve been 1vXing Dragonknights and Wolves all patch on a Stamina Templar using Uppercut, and yeah it has been hard, you definitely need to work harder for every inch of ground because Templar as a whole has no damage… but the surviveability of those passives gives us the ability to finally go offensive, and the free 600 weapon and spell now allows us to use Wretched Vitality (unlimited sustain) where we were trapped in Draugrkin or yet another W/S set otherwise.
Edited by Radiate77 on August 4, 2026 1:36AMDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In case my position has been lost in the derail…
Yes, this change hurts without a source elsewhere.
Not everyone plays in a group, and not everyone will be playing in a group with a Dragonknight.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
Hagrett✭✭✭In case my position has been lost in the derail…
Yes, this change hurts without a source elsewhere.
Not everyone plays in a group, and not everyone will be playing in a group with a Dragonknight.
This is a good point, four man dungeons for example can't take every class along. Having overlaps in the minor buffs available on classes isn't a bad thing in this scenario.
Edited by Hagrett on August 3, 2026 9:39PM1 -
AdonisJorge✭✭✭Agree, Templar needs buffs, if ZOS hold their promisses they could use Templar masteries to buff the classs0
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Hagrett✭✭✭AdonisJorge wrote: »Agree, Templar needs buffs, if ZOS hold their promisses they could use Templar masteries to buff the classs
Personally I'd rather see a better replacement for the lost passive than something added to class masteries that I'd have to choose (and in doing so, sacrifice something else for).1 -
AdonisJorge✭✭✭AdonisJorge wrote: »Agree, Templar needs buffs, if ZOS hold their promisses they could use Templar masteries to buff the classs
Personally I'd rather see a better replacement for the lost passive than something added to class masteries that I'd have to choose (and in doing so, sacrifice something else for).
I hear you and maybe you are right, i am not a Templar main, i am just calling ZOS to use what they said they would use to balance classes on the upcoming patch0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
It ticks 2 ultimate on EVERY HoT ticking, if your Living Dark is proc’ing off of status effects and you overheal with the return, it’s 4 ultimate a second for one skill… now add Restoring Rune and Extended Ritual + Vigor... If you want to have that conversation, you can message me too.
I’ve been 1vXing Dragonknights and Wolves all patch on a Stamina Templar using Uppercut, and yeah it has been hard, you definitely need to work harder for every inch of ground because Templar as a whole has no damage… but the surviveability of those passives gives us the ability to finally go offensive, and the free 600 weapon and spell now allows us to use Wretched Vitality (unlimited sustain) where we were trapped in Draugrkin or yet another W/S set otherwise.
I don't think you understand how bastion of light works. It gives you ultimate if you are at full health when the heal from bastion ticks or if it heals you to full or over. It does not, in any way interact with any other healing effects whatsoever.0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
It ticks 2 ultimate on EVERY HoT ticking, if your Living Dark is proc’ing off of status effects and you overheal with the return, it’s 4 ultimate a second for one skill… now add Restoring Rune and Extended Ritual + Vigor... If you want to have that conversation, you can message me too.
I’ve been 1vXing Dragonknights and Wolves all patch on a Stamina Templar using Uppercut, and yeah it has been hard, you definitely need to work harder for every inch of ground because Templar as a whole has no damage… but the surviveability of those passives gives us the ability to finally go offensive, and the free 600 weapon and spell now allows us to use Wretched Vitality (unlimited sustain) where we were trapped in Draugrkin or yet another W/S set otherwise.
I don't think you understand how bastion of light works. It gives you ultimate if you are at full health when the heal from bastion ticks or if it heals you to full or over. It does not, in any way interact with any other healing effects whatsoever.
Go try it.Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
Thal✭✭✭In case my position has been lost in the derail…
Yes, this change hurts without a source elsewhere.
Not everyone plays in a group, and not everyone will be playing in a group with a Dragonknight.
This is a good point, four man dungeons for example can't take every class along. Having overlaps in the minor buffs available on classes isn't a bad thing in this scenario.
We bring DK tank to all 4 man because it’s stolen the valor of Sorc Atro (major berserk) and soon Templar (prophecy > brutality) 😂0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
It ticks 2 ultimate on EVERY HoT ticking, if your Living Dark is proc’ing off of status effects and you overheal with the return, it’s 4 ultimate a second for one skill… now add Restoring Rune and Extended Ritual + Vigor... If you want to have that conversation, you can message me too.
I’ve been 1vXing Dragonknights and Wolves all patch on a Stamina Templar using Uppercut, and yeah it has been hard, you definitely need to work harder for every inch of ground because Templar as a whole has no damage… but the surviveability of those passives gives us the ability to finally go offensive, and the free 600 weapon and spell now allows us to use Wretched Vitality (unlimited sustain) where we were trapped in Draugrkin or yet another W/S set otherwise.
I don't think you understand how bastion of light works. It gives you ultimate if you are at full health when the heal from bastion ticks or if it heals you to full or over. It does not, in any way interact with any other healing effects whatsoever.
Go try it.
I have been using it since it dropped on pts months ago, and I can read the description which clearly describes it's functionality.0 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bastion of light is not major and minor heroism, it's major assuming you stay at or around full hp. It's 2k hps near a keep in cyro if you have like 45k hp. Don't get me wrong it's the best plar mastery but let's not get carried away.
Bright harbinger sounds good on paper except plar damage skills are generally weak so it really doesn't make much difference.
The rest of the masteries are plain garbage for pvp.
Just compare conservation to guardian, like the sustain is not even close let alone the healing. Judgements brand does nothing in pvp due to the halved value.
Anyway templar needs damage for pvp not more defense.
It ticks 2 ultimate on EVERY HoT ticking, if your Living Dark is proc’ing off of status effects and you overheal with the return, it’s 4 ultimate a second for one skill… now add Restoring Rune and Extended Ritual + Vigor... If you want to have that conversation, you can message me too.
I’ve been 1vXing Dragonknights and Wolves all patch on a Stamina Templar using Uppercut, and yeah it has been hard, you definitely need to work harder for every inch of ground because Templar as a whole has no damage… but the surviveability of those passives gives us the ability to finally go offensive, and the free 600 weapon and spell now allows us to use Wretched Vitality (unlimited sustain) where we were trapped in Draugrkin or yet another W/S set otherwise.
I don't think you understand how bastion of light works. It gives you ultimate if you are at full health when the heal from bastion ticks or if it heals you to full or over. It does not, in any way interact with any other healing effects whatsoever.
Go try it.
I have been using it since it dropped on pts months ago, and I can read the description which clearly describes its functionality.
Just did some testing, and it looks like server desynch causing it to proc multiple times at once.
Thank you for the encouragement to go test it.
That said, it is still 2 ultimate a second, and Major Heroism is the same value over the course of 3 seconds… that is essentially a free a Major Heroism on top of a free heal.Edited by Radiate77 on August 4, 2026 12:57AMDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its annoying that every class gets a useful damage buff, except templar 😪...dont like this either...if the other classes get a dam buff so should templar.0 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭I've said it elsewhere, but this is effectively a nerf and also gives the most useless buff possible. No one cares about resistances in PvE when it's largely a DPS race.
Damage matters for nearly all PvE scenarios, armor matters how often when there's so many one shots? If they wanted to bring a unique group buff this wasn't it.
You can't have a buff if it's esentially a nerf except in niche conditions. And that niche condition is being in a group that would specifically take advantage of it in PvE/PvP and even then it's questionable if the changes will ever make up for the loss in damage at any point in time.
At any rate, it just means the class will have less people playing it. I'm sure that was the goal of the changes.
It's crazy how this year has been a massive disappointment from start to finish with most of these changes going through despite opposition from many sources. Sure they don't have to take anyone's input into account, but why can the dev team not actually come and defend their position on how this "buff" makes any sense?
If the change is supposed to be offset by the use of a mastery, then why don't we also pigeonhole DK into pure classing and not subclassing to provide a group buff? Why don't we do it for every class so there's consistency.
I'll tell you why. Because it's another misguided change that is just there for a placeholder, much like the morphs of skills everyone laughs at because no one will choose them. You know the ones -- the skills with morphs that NO one slots.
Except this time, we're talking about a class' core mechanics and overall buffs. On a class already lacking so much.
If masteries are a justification for this change because it grants too much power (like a templar solo buffed having a 64k radiant or w/e, even thought it means nothing in reality), then maybe the problem is the mastery in the first place.
But beyond that, wasn't the goal of the mastery system supposed to be to buff classes in the first place? And yet now, we are getting a nerf and to get the power back it's conditional on having a mastery?
You're not going to have me enter a store, take my money out of my pocket without my agreement, force me to buy things I don't want, then give me part of my money back and have me believe that you paid me for coming to the store.
Similarly, I don't recognize this as a buff. I recognize it as a nerf.1 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭madmufffin wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »madmufffin wrote: »
Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.
Maybe for pvp. Plar isn't close to several classes for pve atm.
They are just as bad in pvp as in pve, him calling Templars class mastery borderline has to be the biggest exaggeration ever.
I wanted to call cap since I've not seen a single plar in Cyrodil since I've been back in pvp, but am not informed enough to back that stance lol
Pvp is 60% dk and the rest split between sorc and nb now...2 -
Thal✭✭✭With all of this said, without having your pocket DK available to give you back the buff you traditionally had, this ranges from a 500-900 spell damage nerf.
I hope Templaris getting a balance buff elsewhere in the kit in the future PTS weeks…4 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭With all of this said, without having your pocket DK available to give you back the buff you traditionally had, this ranges from a 500-900 spell damage nerf.
I hope Templaris getting a balance buff elsewhere in the kit in the future PTS weeks…
Reworking all 4 dawn's wrath passive to actually do something useful would be a good place to start. Maybe make Spear Wall do something a little more interesting now that minor berserk and protection are so widely available as well.2 -
Pinktraining✭✭✭Stop complaining. If you don't like Templar's new 2974 Armor buff, you can choose to replace that skill line with a subclass system, just as the official stance has always been emphasized to Sorc players: "If you don't like your pet or skill, you should replace it with another skill line."Edited by Pinktraining on August 4, 2026 2:49AM0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »
Unfortunately it is a quite large one for solo play
And solo temp has sacred ground and sweeps, it doesnt need more defense2 -
ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭✭Weirdly I’m almost okay with this change so I can drop the lady mundus in PvP but yeah I can see the damage loss in PvE or solo content being big and armor fits better on dragonknight for sure.0 -
Hagrett✭✭✭What about baking in something to increase spell/weapon power based on resistances into one of our passives? Something along the lines of increasing weapon and spell damage by X for each 100 points of your combined physical and spell resistance?
Adjust the X figure as required to give a reasonable amount of spell/weapon damage and throw in a battle spirit modifier if the idea of having boosted damage on a (non-DK) tank build is too scary.
Edited by Hagrett on August 4, 2026 5:12PM1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why not just tack a 6-10 second Major Courage onto Radiant Aura (group) + Repentance (self) and call it?Edited by Radiate77 on August 4, 2026 5:20PMDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id like to see the data analytics that says Templars are being killed by low armorPERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.4 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As the title said, please reconsider this change. There are a variety of other simple options which wouldn’t effectively kill the class (other than larping) for end game until the (now highly delayed) class refresh.
Effectively, there will now be zero reason for a raid group to bring a Templar. No one is pining over a way to add a minor amount of damage reduction for the group in 2026.
Simple fix: Templar retains Brutality, DK gets Armor passive. Templar has an entire class mastery dedicated to enhancing the Minor Prophecy proc for the group (Bright Harbinger). Now it makes absolutely no sense, other than the decade-long quest to make every change a nerf to Templar and a buff to DK
Another option is to just change the buff to something useful and creative. For instance, a unique +dmg done buff while in Templar’s Sacred Ground
There actually isn’t a need to remove minor brutality from one or the other class (DK/Plar).
You could very easily have both classes continue to source it. If applied by BOTH, activate a new and different buff for group. Encourages group diversity and makes achieving these buffs easier in smaller groups.
/signed1
