Please anything other than armor buff for Templar

Thal · August 3

As the title said, please reconsider this change. There are a variety of other simple options which wouldn’t effectively kill the class (other than larping) for end game until the (now highly delayed) class refresh.

Effectively, there will now be zero reason for a raid group to bring a Templar. No one is pining over a way to add a minor amount of damage reduction for the group in 2026.

Simple fix: Templar retains Brutality, DK gets Armor passive. Templar has an entire class mastery dedicated to enhancing the Minor Prophecy proc for the group (Bright Harbinger). Now it makes absolutely no sense, other than the decade-long quest to make every change a nerf to Templar and a buff to DK

Another option is to just change the buff to something useful and creative. For instance, a unique +dmg done buff while in Templar’s Sacred Ground

There actually isn’t a need to remove minor brutality from one or the other class (DK/Plar).

You could very easily have both classes continue to source it. If applied by BOTH, activate a new and different buff for group. Encourages group diversity and makes achieving these buffs easier in smaller groups.

ceruulean · August 3

Just make plars and DK give the same buff, and sorc and NB give the same buff. Make the classes rivals and foils of each other. Similar but different.

Penetration change just buffed sorcs for PVP who didn't need PVP buffs, DK remains top tier, and solo templars who are the MAJORITY of the playerbase now deal less damage.

madmufffin · August 3

DK giving armor and plar giving damage would be more thematically appropriate and fit the classes better tbh. Plar has a mastery that is completely centered around this buff and its concept, so giving it armor just feels wrong.

Solariken · August 3

Nerfing Templar for no reason... I would be shocked but I've been here since the beginning.

Agree that Templar should get the Brutality buff.

ArctosCethlenn · August 3

Plar should just get selfish minor brut still from the passive, in addition to giving armor to themselves and their group. Solo plar loses a TON with the change otherwise.

VinnyGambini · August 3

This has been already discussed in different thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/693924/sorcs-now-gets-a-unique-source-of-penetration-buff-to-their-group-instead-of-minor-prophecy#latest

Zos ignored the discussion and did like initially planned. Classic Zos ignoring players.

Thal · August 3

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This has been already discussed in different thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/693924/sorcs-now-gets-a-unique-source-of-penetration-buff-to-their-group-instead-of-minor-prophecy#latest

Zos ignored the discussion and did like initially planned. Classic Zos ignoring players.

Last ditch effort

Radiate77 · August 3

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

React · August 3

Armor is definitely a bad choice for the class that already has too much defensive capability and not enough damage. It really should be something damage oriented.

madmufffin · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Thal · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Agree, but it would have to be now. Not after the class remains in the dustbin until it gets reworked in 2 years

madmufffin · August 3

Thal wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Agree, but it would have to be now. Not after the class remains in the dustbin until it gets reworked in 2 years

I've been begging for plar passives to be reworked for years. What's another few years dies inside. Aedric has 3 ok passives, but nothing special. Dawn's has horrific passives despite the best actives, and Restoring is ok as well. Now it's losing sorcery on top of that.

AScarlato · August 3

Complained about this during PTR but I guess it didn't matter.

Waiting on that one person to be contrarian to tell me how amazing Armor is.

Radiate77 · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Radiate77 · August 3

AScarlato wrote: »

Complained about this during PTR but I guess it didn't matter.

Waiting on that one person to be contrarian to tell me how amazing Armor is.

I think they banned him from the forum for pretending to be a developer, you’re safe. 😂

madmufffin · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Maybe for pvp. Plar isn't close to several classes for pve atm.

Militan1404 · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Maybe for pvp. Plar isn't close to several classes for pve atm.

They are just as bad in pvp as in pve, him calling Templars class mastery borderline has to be the biggest exaggeration ever.

madmufffin · August 3

Militan1404 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Maybe for pvp. Plar isn't close to several classes for pve atm.

They are just as bad in pvp as in pve, him calling Templars class mastery borderline has to be the biggest exaggeration ever.

I wanted to call cap since I've not seen a single plar in Cyrodil since I've been back in pvp, but am not informed enough to back that stance lol

Thal · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Maybe for pvp. Plar isn't close to several classes for pve atm.

They are just as bad in pvp as in pve, him calling Templars class mastery borderline has to be the biggest exaggeration ever.

I wanted to call cap since I've not seen a single plar in Cyrodil since I've been back in pvp, but am not informed enough to back that stance lol

Judgement’s Brand is “close” to really strong. It turns shards into legitimate DPS (read that as legit but still not overwhelming), especially since you need it with Aetheric Lancer anyway.

Bastion of Light and Steadfast Candescence should be Passives, not Class Masteries. They are a joke.

tsaescishoeshiner · August 3

It could be a unique cost reduction or ult cost reduction, unique recovery, unique max stam/magicka/health, unique damage done.

Armor is not useful for many groups, and I don't think it helps optimized tanks who already hit their target armor goal. It's helpful for PvP for sure.

Thal · August 3

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

It could be a unique cost reduction or ult cost reduction, unique recovery, unique max stam/magicka/health, unique damage done.

Armor is not useful for many groups, and I don't think it helps optimized tanks who already hit their target armor goal. It's helpful for PvP for sure.

Agree. It could be any number of far more creative things than a completely trivialized armor buff that is tone deaf to the way game is played in 2026

VinnyGambini · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

If they’re gonna give Templar armor, they need to add more damage into their passives through Dawn’s Wrath or Restoring Light.

This has been needed for ages anyways. If they get a dumb armor buff and then get less awful class passives that would be an acceptable outcome.

Templar’s Class Mastery passives are ridiculous when used properly, borderline the best out of all of them, excluding one for Sorcerer.

Sorcerers, wardens and nercos class masteries are stronger than templars (PvP wise). Templar class masteries are mediocre, nothing more.

Radiate77 · August 3

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 + unnamed Major Heroism combined, and a 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Those are invaluable to a Templar.

You stay alive from HoTs, your ultimate is dirt cheap, and you need to stack damage because your skills do NO damage. lol

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

madmufffin · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

Thal · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Those are invaluable to a Templar. You stay alive from HoTs, your ultimate is dirt cheap, and you need to stack damage because your skills do NO damage. lol

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

I main a Stamplar in PVE and it’s definitely in an okay spot. Not the best, not the worst, but fun to play.

Huge nerf to lose access to this 10% spd… truly could double the Light’s Harbinger buff to sort of get back into same ballpark

Radiate77 · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Let’s not lose focus of the real problems plaguing Templar, as Class Mastery isn’t one of them…

This crusade against our skills doing damage is.

Thal · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Calculated defense is 6% and you’re at 8k minimum in dungeons already, so it far outstrips 300

Radiate77 · August 3

Thal wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Calculated defense is 6% and you’re at 8k minimum in dungeons already, so it far outstrips 300

Who has 8,000 w/s damage in dungeons? lol
Someone using the Templar mastery?

Thal · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thal wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Calculated defense is 6% and you’re at 8k minimum in dungeons already, so it far outstrips 300

Who has 8,000 w/s damage in dungeons? lol
Someone using the Templar mastery?

It’s not particularly difficult 😂

Trials you should be way over that too. I was going for 4 man for comparison

Radiate77 · August 3

Thal wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thal wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Calculated defense is 6% and you’re at 8k minimum in dungeons already, so it far outstrips 300

Who has 8,000 w/s damage in dungeons? lol
Someone using the Templar mastery?

It’s not particularly difficult 😂

OK. What’s your crit %, crit damage, and penetration with 8,000 w/s damage in a 4-man?

madmufffin · August 3

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KVjaONAxw1Y?is=utr5vwju0tImbDgL
That’s more than enough damage for me. ^

Light’s Harbinger also gives your whole group 300 w/s, there isn’t a Class Mastery close to that for support; on top of that, the shielding mastery works great for dungeon + arena trifectas, as it covers all sustain and protection you would need on a damage dealer with the added benefit of an occasional 10 ultimate just for stepping in an AoE.

And yeah; I was referring to PvP. You have a free 2,000 HPS + better ultimate generation than both Minor & Major Heroism combined + 600 weapon/spell damage on demand.

Where Templar is weakest right now, is undoubtably PvP, but that has nothing to do with the Masteries, and everything to do with the fact that each staple that made up Templar has been nerfed repeatedly since Update 35.

This change from Damage to Armor is yet another example of this happening in real time.

There's class masteries that give your whole group major heroism or major force, apply major brittle, or give a flat 6% more wd/sd which are all quite a bit stronger than plar's 300 wd/sd in a group pve environment.

For what environment? Those are all named buffs that can be sourced elsewhere, except the 6% more w/s dmg which is significantly weaker than 300 for your group.

You would need 10% for 3,000 to equal 300.
Most PvE builds do not reach 4,000 w/s, and even if they somehow did, 6% of 4,000 is 240 not 300.

Let’s not lose focus of the real problems plaguing Templar, as Class Mastery isn’t one of them…

This crusade against our skills doing damage is.

In what world are you not getting 3000 wd/sd on your builds in pve? I'm sitting at 4400 as a Khajiit standing on a rock in Rawl'kha right now. In raid that goes up to 9k+ and Plar's mastery doesn't scale at all. Major force is only sourced from an ult without perfect uptime and major brittle from a monster set without perfect uptime. Both have an opportunity cost of losing an ult/monster set and don't have perfect uptimes like the mastery does. Major heroism isn't remotely sourced in raid and flat unique 6% is absurd as well. Plar doesn't touch any of those for group benefit.