Yeah and VD should have a cooldown and dk powerlash removed from game

Or anything. Clown modes should be a meme instead of the most powerful things in the game.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Or anything. Clown modes should be a meme instead of the most powerful things in the game.

Why do you think a humanoid character half their size should be more powerful?

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Why do you think the meta players are all on Dragon Knights and Sorcerers?

Because the class masteries of sorc / kit of DK is just as OP as WW, except it's more than 3 buttons gameplay. You can just face tank anything on WW due to a single sorc class mastery. You have infinite sustain so pressure is whatever. You have almost 0 mistake potential since you have so few buttons you can't do stuff wrong. You have crazy pressure - some WW cmx logs reach close to 10k DPS in duels. The only way you can die is through burst, and that burst needs to eat through 55k HP which is insane.

To give an example of how absurd this current spec is: If I pop corrosive vs a WW, they can literally hold down block and just spam burst heals for the whole corrosive duration without any issues to sustain whatsoever. At most I can use hopium and pray that the stars align on my 20-30-40th ult drop and everything crits. Otherwise it's a stalemate.

Heronisan wrote: »

Yes, this should have never made it live to begin with

Anyone against this, please explain to me this.

If sorc WW is busted OP
Templar WW is balanced because not a single templar class mastery work with WW

How do you balance WW then?

Nerf sorc masteries, which in turn will nerf sorc, the class these masteries was intended for to begin with?

Unless WW gets their own class masteries , WW is unbalancable as long as they can use class masteries.

Class masteries was ment to balance each individual class up against subclassing

While WW, one "class" can use all class masteries.

Again, how this made it live is just absurd, when they CLEARLY have to fix it at one point.

At least two Templar masteries work with werewolf, fyi

Heronisan wrote: »

Yes, this should have never made it live to begin with

Anyone against this, please explain to me this.

If sorc WW is busted OP
Templar WW is balanced because not a single templar class mastery work with WW

How do you balance WW then?

Nerf sorc masteries, which in turn will nerf sorc, the class these masteries was intended for to begin with?

Unless WW gets their own class masteries , WW is unbalancable as long as they can use class masteries.

Class masteries was ment to balance each individual class up against subclassing

While WW, one "class" can use all class masteries.

Again, how this made it live is just absurd, when they CLEARLY have to fix it at one point.

Sorc ones only work well because Sorc ones have the least amount of conditions to proc the passives while being the most useful set for the Sorc

Don't think class mastery access should be removed from WWs though. If anything, they need to make proc conditions more accessible for all classes like Sorcs.

Some classes, imo, have class masteries that are worth giving up for the subclassing (i.e Arcanists unless you run a comp for your group) if you want to play as WW or solo PvP especially because they are fairly more restrictive in proc conditions than Warden.

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

evLRise wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Why do you think the meta players are all on Dragon Knights and Sorcerers?

Because the class masteries of sorc / kit of DK is just as OP as WW, except it's more than 3 buttons gameplay. You can just face tank anything on WW due to a single sorc class mastery. You have infinite sustain so pressure is whatever. You have almost 0 mistake potential since you have so few buttons you can't do stuff wrong. You have crazy pressure - some WW cmx logs reach close to 10k DPS in duels. The only way you can die is through burst, and that burst needs to eat through 55k HP which is insane.

To give an example of how absurd this current spec is: If I pop corrosive vs a WW, they can literally hold down block and just spam burst heals for the whole corrosive duration without any issues to sustain whatsoever. At most I can use hopium and pray that the stars align on my 20-30-40th ult drop and everything crits. Otherwise it's a stalemate.

Nobody is doing 10k dps against a good player with a decent build. Whatever cmx you saw is old news and does not apply anymore. I can cherry pick cmx data and 1vX clips against unprepared players too. It doesn't mean werewolf is OP.
DK has the burst to kill a werewolf. A werewolf has no burst whatsoever. It's all pressure and good players can heal/shield out of it.

Werewolf has enough "pressure" for it to be considered burst to be honest. At some point it´s no longer "pressure" when the damage puts you into full lifesupport mode every GCD. While 10k dps is rarer post-signet nerf it´s still not unusual vs properly geared players (unless they´re running Maras which is the only real viable counterplay). Trying to undersell WW because DK is strong is just some insane faulty logic to be honest....

Adapt, is what i heard for many years

I have multiple 20k+ plus whips/clips/infinite survivability high damage DKs…

But your concern is werewolf with no burst… because they can build tanky and survive with okay damage just like anyone else. (reminder also that proc sets are not intrinsic to wolf)

Ugh, when a werewolf bites you for 20k+ on top of 5, 8, and 10k from other burst moves also- lmk.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Or anything. Clown modes should be a meme instead of the most powerful things in the game.

Werewolf isn't a 'clown build', it was always meant to be a legit form of play. Have you considered the fact that the rework was meant to bring it OUT of meme status?

Usureki wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

evLRise wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Why do you think the meta players are all on Dragon Knights and Sorcerers?

Because the class masteries of sorc / kit of DK is just as OP as WW, except it's more than 3 buttons gameplay. You can just face tank anything on WW due to a single sorc class mastery. You have infinite sustain so pressure is whatever. You have almost 0 mistake potential since you have so few buttons you can't do stuff wrong. You have crazy pressure - some WW cmx logs reach close to 10k DPS in duels. The only way you can die is through burst, and that burst needs to eat through 55k HP which is insane.

To give an example of how absurd this current spec is: If I pop corrosive vs a WW, they can literally hold down block and just spam burst heals for the whole corrosive duration without any issues to sustain whatsoever. At most I can use hopium and pray that the stars align on my 20-30-40th ult drop and everything crits. Otherwise it's a stalemate.

Nobody is doing 10k dps against a good player with a decent build. Whatever cmx you saw is old news and does not apply anymore. I can cherry pick cmx data and 1vX clips against unprepared players too.

12k whips disagree

Right. No Werewolf is hitting 12k spammable or 15k or 18k. Not even the tool tip reads that high.

Major_Mangle wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

evLRise wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Why do you think the meta players are all on Dragon Knights and Sorcerers?

Because the class masteries of sorc / kit of DK is just as OP as WW, except it's more than 3 buttons gameplay. You can just face tank anything on WW due to a single sorc class mastery. You have infinite sustain so pressure is whatever. You have almost 0 mistake potential since you have so few buttons you can't do stuff wrong. You have crazy pressure - some WW cmx logs reach close to 10k DPS in duels. The only way you can die is through burst, and that burst needs to eat through 55k HP which is insane.

To give an example of how absurd this current spec is: If I pop corrosive vs a WW, they can literally hold down block and just spam burst heals for the whole corrosive duration without any issues to sustain whatsoever. At most I can use hopium and pray that the stars align on my 20-30-40th ult drop and everything crits. Otherwise it's a stalemate.

Nobody is doing 10k dps against a good player with a decent build. Whatever cmx you saw is old news and does not apply anymore. I can cherry pick cmx data and 1vX clips against unprepared players too. It doesn't mean werewolf is OP.
DK has the burst to kill a werewolf. A werewolf has no burst whatsoever. It's all pressure and good players can heal/shield out of it.

Werewolf has enough "pressure" for it to be considered burst to be honest. At some point it´s no longer "pressure" when the damage puts you into full lifesupport mode every GCD. While 10k dps is rarer post-signet nerf it´s still not unusual vs properly geared players (unless they´re running Maras which is the only real viable counterplay). Trying to undersell WW because DK is strong is just some insane faulty logic to be honest....

It really doesn't. You should try playing it. You'll find out very quickly how it has no burst and how pressure can't be considered burst. Again, nobody is doing 10k dps with a Werewolf against a good player with a decent build.

I think it's important that Werewolf balance is viewed through the lens of the current class rework baseline rather than around the current state of mastery passives.

Right now, Werewolf synergizes extremely well with Sorcerer masteries and did reasonably well with Warden prior to the Signate changes. However, I don't think those interactions should define whether Werewolf itself is considered balanced. Mastery passives are still part of an ongoing redesign and will almost certainly continue to receive tuning. If they don't, then that's a broader mastery design discussion not necessarily a Werewolf problem.

When evaluating Werewolf, I think we should first ask: What is its intended role?

To me, the answer has always been clear. Werewolf is designed to be a high-pressure, single-target brawler. It gives up a tremendous amount of utility in exchange for excelling in direct combat. If that's its identity, then it should absolutely be one of the strongest options in a straight 1v1.

The important part is recognizing everything it gives up to achieve that role.

Werewolf has:

• No cross-healing.
• No group shielding.
• No meaningful cleanse or snare removal for allies.
• Very limited group utility.
• No survivability scaling simply because additional Werewolves are present.

Unlike traditional group compositions, adding more Werewolves doesn't create exponentially stronger defensive synergy. A pack of four wolves is essentially four individual brawlers fighting alongside one another.

That's why I don't think duel performance tells the whole story.

In a 1v1, skilled Werewolves often end up in stalemates because both players can sustain through each other's pressure. Similar situations happen against Dragonknights, where self-healing and sustained pressure can exceed incoming damage.

That's perfectly acceptable. Those are matchups between classes designed to win prolonged brawls.

However, the moment combat shifts to coordinated group play, the equation changes dramatically.

Traditional groups benefit from shared healing, shields, buffs, debuffs, cleanses, positioning, and coordinated support. Those advantages scale upward with every additional player.

Werewolves don't.

Their survivability doesn't suddenly increase because there are more wolves nearby. They don't gain stronger healing networks or layered defensive cooldowns. Eventually, the efficiency of coordinated support begins to outscale what individual self-healing can accomplish.

That's why I don't believe strong dueling performance automatically translates into organized PvP dominance.

Personally, I think the long-term answer isn't simply buffing or nerfing Werewolf. I'd rather see the transformation expanded into distinct playstyles.

For example:

Berserker – focused on aggressive single-target damage and dueling.
Pack Leader – trades some personal damage for meaningful support and synergy with nearby Werewolves.
Behemoth – emphasizes durability, disruption, and frontline control.

This would allow the current dueling power to be dialed back slightly while giving players meaningful choices instead of every Werewolf gravitating toward the same build. It would also create actual reasons to run multiple Werewolves together beyond simply having more bodies.

Lastly, I'd like to see class masteries move further away from requiring specific class abilities to unlock their full value. The more masteries encourage broader playstyles instead of locking players into predetermined skill combinations, the healthier build diversity becomes across the game.

Overall, I think Werewolf is fulfilling the role it was always intended to fill: an elite single-target brawler that sacrifices group utility for personal combat strength.

If mastery interactions push it beyond that role, those interactions should be adjusted. But if we're judging Werewolf itself, we should judge it based on the strengths and weaknesses of the transformation, not on temporary mastery synergies that are still being iterated on.

sweats are just mad that they have to work for their kills now against average players, calling for nerfs even though the game is gonna be shutdown in a month for all we know.

I'm a warden main who is currently using ww in pvp a lot.A werewolf with 59k health isn't killing anything unless you either get swarmed or are running glass cannon/pve build. You might not be killing it either, but limit its movement and leave armswing range. The leap doesn't hit for much. If it's killing you quick, it's a cannon and squishy. It has limitations. Class mastery on ww is fun. Gives the wolves some flavour.

I'm also tired of people calling for nerfs of fun things. Warden was so fun when it came out and you could zip to someone up on a keep wall and pull others up with you. The ability to infiltrate a keep was top tier. Charm is both annoying and much fun, I hope it stays. Corrosive is both annoying and much fun, I hope it stays. Streak is both ann-...

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Werewolf is already meme status again. 7k weapon damage and 26k pen on a Werewolf doesn't do damage to decently tanky players. You'd think that kind of stat sheet would work, but no. We'll just have to go back to being tanks only again, or super squishy mid damage.

It is a bit strange that having that much penetration doesn't help much. I've been finding that myself while experimenting with things. High pen works better in BGs but not in Cyro for some reason. Dunno if there's glitch or not but outside of Onslaught and Corrosive, stacking pen past 15k feels really not doing as much as it should theoretically be doing.