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Three-Sided Deathmatch
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ruskiii✭✭✭It was possible to do the same thing in 4v4v4 to be fair. Plenty of unbalanced pug lobbies happened then too. Its the risk you face queueing up with randoms. Some team will usually luck into having a better comp. If MMR stopped resetting we'd still be using the same MMR system we had in 4v4v4, which did progress players up the ranks more based on games played than actual skill.
Stopping the MMR resets wouldn't be a magic fix for all issues in BGs, but it would prevent the first of the month bloodbaths that last for a week or two into the month, and that is an awful experience for new and old players alike.
I can only speak for myself but I would be more than happy to sacrifice good queue times on my main characters while the higher MMR ranks are filled. Then within a month or two MMR should be back to a similar functionality to how it was in 3 team BGs.Edited by ruskiii on April 12, 2026 10:25PM1 -
Haki_7✭✭✭
I don't see how.@ruskiii wrote:It was possible to do the same thing in 4v4v4 to be fair.
I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense). So the question remains: After this grueling, years-long battle is over, will the goal of the next one be yet another invisible change that may not have the desired effect?
[snip]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on August 19, 2026 2:48PM0 -
Vordarax✭✭all you have to do is what i did stop paying money into the game when they loose enough customers they will take what we are saying into account
my £50 month does not go into the game until i feel its worth paying for again1 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭✭
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭There also wasn't an MMR reset in the old format before 2020ish except maybe once a patch or so, seems to me like it never did one single time until 2020ish.
Those first years were by far the most competitive for me, but it came at the expense of queue times and having to hit accept 10 times per match.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
ruskiii✭✭✭
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
what does this even mean?0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »There also wasn't an MMR reset in the old format before 2020ish except maybe once a patch or so, seems to me like it never did one single time until 2020ish.
Those first years were by far the most competitive for me, but it came at the expense of queue times and having to hit accept 10 times per match.
It would be nice to get some communication from the devs about BGs and MMR resets. Wheeler did an interview about MMR a while ago, but the responses in the first PVP Q&A and follow-up posts from community support have contradicted that tbh.Edited by ruskiii on April 14, 2026 2:53AM0 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭✭
From what you and @MincMincMinc have been writing, the both of you believe the monthly MMR resets started in the same update that introduced 2-sided BGs. Correct?
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
what does this even mean?Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
From what you and @MincMincMinc have been writing, the both of you believe the monthly MMR resets started in the same update that introduced 2-sided BGs. Correct?
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
what does this even mean?
No I don't think either of us said this, but its highly likely when zos was doing a major pass like the two team system rework they would have changed the mmr or leaderboard system. That's just how most companies work where they spin up teams to all work on the same projects.I only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭
From what you and @MincMincMinc have been writing, the both of you believe the monthly MMR resets started in the same update that introduced 2-sided BGs. Correct?
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
what does this even mean?
Its not a point of belief. The devs announced the resets starting in u44, and gave the weekly leaderboards being the reason for the monthly resets in the first part of the PVP Q&A.
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Moonspawn✭✭✭✭
That was a strange thing to do. Are you certain? I have no memory of this announcement.
From what you and @MincMincMinc have been writing, the both of you believe the monthly MMR resets started in the same update that introduced 2-sided BGs. Correct?
Makes me wonder just how long ago. Why does everyone assume the leaderboard nonsense only started with the update that introduced 2-sided BGs?I understand wanting to stop the MMR resets, perhaps making it account wide too. It's what everyone wants. But it will be 2 years soon, and they already invented a reason not to do it long ago (the leaderboards nonsense).
what does this even mean?
Its not a point of belief. The devs announced the resets starting in u44Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
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ruskiii✭✭✭I wasn't going to bother linking it, but I'm glad I did, I completely forgot that the 7 day decay was a thing too. @MincMincMinc it actually explains some of your experiences playing BGs infrequently over a month, more than just the monthly reset alone.Edited by ruskiii on April 14, 2026 10:51PM0
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MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wasn't going to bother linking it, but I'm glad I did, I completely forgot that the 7 day decay was a thing too. @MincMincMinc it actually explains some of your experiences playing BGs infrequently over a month, more than just the monthly reset alone.
Yeah zos basically made it insufferable to come back to the game or even play it weekend to weekend. Imagine if you are in post grad college classes for nuclear physics, but you are sick for a week and then get forced back to start over again in kindergarten classes.....its lunacy. Funny enough the analogy works for literally becoming the biggest kid on the block able to instantly bully and beatup the people that should be at that level.
idk who we need to ping at zos, but is the design intent that I am supposed to go grief new BG players every other week I can play the game? At what point are vet players at risk of being banned because of how the MMR works?I only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat0 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭✭Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
That's a very interesting choice of words there by Kevin. Why would they go to all the trouble of creating two-sided BGs, only to set them up to fail like that, with these monthly MMR resets?Edited by Moonspawn on April 15, 2026 2:00PMCan you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
That's a very interesting choice of words there by Kevin. Why would they go to all the trouble of creating two-sided BGs, only to set them up to fail like that, with these monthly MMR resets?
Yeah there was another post where we asked them why and their response was something on the lines of they wanted the leaderboards to reset so everyone had a chance of being in the top 10. So they would rather everyone hate and be upset at bgs for the fleeting chance someone sees their name on a leaderboard nobody knows about for a few seconds at the start of the reset.
They would be better off just making a bronze/silver,gold ranking and have your rank shown at the end of each match.Edited by MincMincMinc on April 15, 2026 2:45PMI only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭The irony being that mismatched lobbies make it harder for new players to gain medals and climb the leaderboard, and the crit heal medal giving 10x more points than it should means to get into the top ten you have to play a healer or absolutely no-life 4v4s as a dps to stand a chance.2
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ruskiii✭✭✭Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
That's a very interesting choice of words there by Kevin. Why would they go to all the trouble of creating two-sided BGs, only to set them up to fail like that, with these monthly MMR resets?
Ive been asking myself the same question everyday for like 18 months. Unfortunately at this point it does seem that the mismanagement of BGs could be intentional. I wouldnt be suprised if ZOS announce Vengeance for BGs before trying the very obvious and very simple fixes we have been suggesting since U44 PTS.2 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭✭@ruskiii wrote:Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
That's a very interesting choice of words there by Kevin. Why would they go to all the trouble of creating two-sided BGs, only to set them up to fail like that, with these monthly MMR resets?
Ive been asking myself the same question everyday for like 18 months. Unfortunately at this point it does seem that the mismanagement of BGs could be intentional. I wouldnt be suprised if ZOS announce Vengeance for BGs before trying the very obvious and very simple fixes we have been suggesting since U44 PTS.
Maybe they didn't spend years developing two-sided BGs just to set them up to fail in the most perplexing way imaginable. Considering their obsession with leaderboards, and a different interpretation of Kevin's words, is it possible the MMR of 3-sided had been resetting weekly with the leaderboards all along?Edited by Moonspawn on April 15, 2026 10:53PMCan you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭
Maybe they did not set up two-sided BGs for failure
There's always a chance, but given how long these core issues have persisted with very simple fixes being clear, it would almost be more embarrassing if it wasn't intentional.Considering their obsession with leaderboards
Obsession with leaderboards is a huge stretch. Because the MMR resets either don't effect the leaderboards, or make it harder for new players to climb, the exact opposite of their stated intentions, it is likely leaderboards were given as the reason for resets in order to placate the people who kept asking. The inconsistencies/incorrect statements/misunderstanding questions that happened in that first PVP Q&A has been brought up several times. ZOS even commented that they will look into redoing that part of the Q&A, though I am not holding breath on that happening.is it possible the MMR of 3-sided had been resetting weekly with the leaderboards all along?
Did you even play 4v4v4? The MMR was very noticeable. Especially making a new character with fresh MMR your first few lobbies would be filled with players new to BGs, and then eventually you would rank up and get back into the lobbies with the same 30 guys over and over again. Almost my entire friends list is people I met playing high MMR BGs, you get to know each other after playing with/against each other on a daily basis. Once your character reached high MMR there was a very slow degradation, like you could not log into a character for months and months but it would retain its MMR.
To be honest, the more I read your posts, the more it seems like you never really played BGs that much.2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I was hoping this would actually be info on the weekend 3-team event they had mentioned.
Turns out it's more of the same complaining about MMR nostalgia of 3-teams.
Can this be relegated to the PvP Activities section rather than being continuously bumped in General?2 -
Haki_7✭✭✭
I don't know, ruskii. The MMR in 3-sided resetting with the weekly leaderboards would explain why queue times were so much shorter back then. It would explain why I didn't have to play multiple characters across different servers just to avoid getting skipped by the matchmaking.is it possible the MMR of 3-sided had been resetting weekly with the leaderboards all along?
Did you even play 4v4v4? The MMR was very noticeable. Especially making a new character with fresh MMR your first few lobbies would be filled with players new to BGs, and then eventually you would rank up and get back into the lobbies with the same 30 guys over and over again. Almost my entire friends list is people I met playing high MMR BGs, you get to know each other after playing with/against each other on a daily basis. Once your character reached high MMR there was a very slow degradation, like you could not log into a character for months and months but it would retain its MMR.
To be honest, the more I read your posts, the more it seems like you never really played BGs that much.
I haven't played my main character in over a year.I can only speak for myself but I would be more than happy to sacrifice good queue times on my main characters while the higher MMR ranks are filled.
[snip]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on August 19, 2026 2:54PM0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭Haki, you seriously think that once a week your MMR reset and put you in the bottom tier of MMR that everyone else only experienced on brand new characters?
Your queues popped because there was no resets. You had other people in your MMR bracket. Right now with resets it is possible to play one character enough that you enter the higher mmr tier, that not many other people are in because of the resets. The game then prioritises matching other people with similar mmr ranks before putting your high mmr character into a game.0 -
Haki_7✭✭✭
I'm not adept at sensing the minute changes in MMR levels. Truth be told, they all look the same to me.@ruskiii wrote:Haki, you seriously think that once a week your MMR reset and put you in the bottom tier of MMR that everyone else only experienced on brand new characters?
It would also explain why they said they may bring back 3-sided BGs permanently, but still remain unwilling to increase the time between MMR resets. Not even as a last-ditch effort to save 2-sided. To me, it only makes sense if the latter has already been tried before. Maybe it has.@ruskiii wrote:Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
That's a very interesting choice of words there by Kevin. Why would they go to all the trouble of creating two-sided BGs, only to set them up to fail like that, with these monthly MMR resets?
Ive been asking myself the same question everyday for like 18 months. Unfortunately at this point it does seem that the mismanagement of BGs could be intentional. I wouldnt be suprised if ZOS announce Vengeance for BGs before trying the very obvious and very simple fixes we have been suggesting since U44 PTS.
Maybe they didn't spend years developing two-sided BGs just to set them up to fail in the most perplexing way imaginable. Considering their obsession with leaderboards, and a different interpretation of Kevin's words, is it possible the MMR of 3-sided had been resetting weekly with the leaderboards all along?
[snip]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on August 19, 2026 2:55PM0 -
ruskiii✭✭✭
I'm not adept at sensing the minute changes in MMR levels. Truth be told, they all look the same to me.@ruskiii wrote:Haki, you seriously think that once a week your MMR reset and put you in the bottom tier of MMR that everyone else only experienced on brand new characters?
To be fair, in 4v4v4 you only played one, maybe two different characters. I've only seen you play I think 3 characters over the (almost) 5 years I've known you. The lower tier MMR probably isn't something you experienced often, if at all in 3 team BGs. It's not a coincidence that you are experiencing them now, as well as the most consistently imbalanced lobbies in BGs history.Edited by ruskiii on April 17, 2026 11:41AM0 -
MincMincMinc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭3 sided BGs went on for a while and I definitely remember them playing around with MMR and que times a few passes. Que times were good sometimes, but other patches I remember regularly waiting 40+ mins for a max MMR que. Just to get forced against a premade 4 man comp group. It wasn't exactly peachy back then.
I would say que times are faster now adays......but again my MMR keeps resetting so there's hundreds of new players zos is forcing me to grief until they quit playing.I only use insightful
BG MMR should NOT reset, zos sponsored smurfing is a terrible design choice.
PvP needs more incentives, even simple potion mats or gold would be better than rewards for the worthy inventory bloat2 -
Haki_7✭✭✭
It's weird that this is hidden away in a dark corner of the ''known issues'' section of some PTS notes. Is there anything important about MMR or matchmaking in the patch notes of update 44?Are you certain?
Yes.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665758/pts-patch-notes-v10-2-0
@ruskiii , Wheeler's Vengeance is closing in on all of us, and I'm still unclear on the plan: Say we finally get them to stop resetting the MMR. If the number of matches like the ones I've been posting remains infinitely higher than it ever was in 3-sided, what would be the next move?
[snip]Edited by ZOS_CouchTato on August 19, 2026 2:55PM0 -
Moonspawn✭✭✭✭
Here's the link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/667797/pc-mac-patch-notes-v10-02-5-update-44It's weird that this is hidden away in a dark corner of the ''known issues'' section of some PTS notes. Is there anything important about MMR or matchmaking in the patch notes of update 44?
Nothing about the resets or the 7-day decay, but the word ''MMR'' is mentioned several times.Can you help solve any of the FOUR critical flaws of two-sided BGs ?
Looking for feedback on How to fix the 3-sided objective modes0
