Three-Sided Deathmatch

xylena

Check this list out. It proves every post I've ever made.

100% chance to win

100% chance to win

0% chance to win

0% chance to lose

100% chance to lose

0% chance to win

100% chance to win

0% chance to lose

ruskiii

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@MincMincMinc were you able to find the source of that nonsense about leaderboards?

I remember someone, probably Minc, saying that @ruskiii should be able to find it. Not sure why.

I just googled ''eso forum pvp ruskiii leaderboard'' and found this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674000/battlegrounds-misc-pvp-questions-community-q-a/p1
Seems to be what Minc was talking about.

Are you talking about ZOS saying they are resetting the MMR monthly to give people a chance on the leaderboards? (Even though leaderboards reset weekly, and Brian has been on record saying that MMR isn't tied to medal score). That was in the PVP Q&A which you linked to there.

I've seen some of Minc's posts about BG balancing, and although I disagree with him originally saying they should rework maps/spawn rules to make it easier to sit in spawn, his points about MMR resets were directly pulled from conversations we've had in guild amongst pretty much all the regular BG players on PCNA. A guild which you and Minc are both treasured and much loved members by the way.

Not sure why we're pretending these aren't conversations we've had a million times before when we could instead be focusing on the important stuff:

4v4v4 is coming back for a whole week every month - supposedly

There are very simple fixes that would improve all BG gamemodes for everyone (two I mentioned probably wouldn't even require server downtime as they have done similar things on the fly before)

The order of the queues are changed for the BG events (even though they still list competitive as the default option)
In U49 the BG queues got bugged and wouldn't start without full teams, it was confirmed a bug on the forums and reverted within a couple of hours, no downtime. The real question is why has it taken over 18 months to make such basic QoL changes...

MincMincMinc

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@MincMincMinc were you able to find the source of that nonsense about leaderboards?

I remember someone, probably Minc, saying that @ruskiii should be able to find it. Not sure why.

I just googled ''eso forum pvp ruskiii leaderboard'' and found this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674000/battlegrounds-misc-pvp-questions-community-q-a/p1
Seems to be what Minc was talking about.

IDK what we were discussing, it was like a month ago now. Probably 2 deleted threads ago.

Honestly as BG players we are better off making different topic threads instead of ballooning a single BG thread with nonsense. We could have BG threads for the following SPECIFIC items which can be talked about and find solutions for zos.

BG - MMR reset
BG - Team Balancing
BG - spawn camping/ spawn design
BG - two team vs three team
BG - Gamemode specifics (chaosball, CTF, etc)

MincMincMinc

ruskiii wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@MincMincMinc were you able to find the source of that nonsense about leaderboards?

I remember someone, probably Minc, saying that @ruskiii should be able to find it. Not sure why.

I just googled ''eso forum pvp ruskiii leaderboard'' and found this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674000/battlegrounds-misc-pvp-questions-community-q-a/p1
Seems to be what Minc was talking about.

Are you talking about ZOS saying they are resetting the MMR monthly to give people a chance on the leaderboards? (Even though leaderboards reset weekly, and Brian has been on record saying that MMR isn't tied to medal score). That was in the PVP Q&A which you linked to there.

I've seen some of Minc's posts about BG balancing, and although I disagree with him originally saying they should rework maps/spawn rules to make it easier to sit in spawn, his points about MMR resets were directly pulled from conversations we've had in guild amongst pretty much all the regular BG players on PCNA.

This may have been what the conversation was about.

I think you actually changed my mind on things. Where MMR reset is the most important overarching issue which then plays into team balance issues. Which then plays into game design issues like spawn zones as I had issues with originally. Which I dont think our views were opposing anyways, just difference in priority. Which I would now agree with you on MMR reset creating zos forced smurfing being the number one issue......Its the one reason why I hardly play BGs and the game as a whole anymore. Its too annoying to give a week of my life farming mmr every other month before I get put into fun matches.

xylena

MincMincMinc wrote: »

We could have BG threads for the following SPECIFIC items which can be talked about and find solutions

The forum mods merged all the BGs threads in General together.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Which I would now agree with you on MMR reset creating zos forced smurfing being the number one issue......Its the one reason why I hardly play BGs and the game as a whole anymore. Its too annoying to give a week of my life farming mmr every other month before I get put into fun matches.

Agreed.

Haki_7

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@MincMincMinc were you able to find the source of that nonsense about leaderboards?

I remember someone, probably Minc, saying that @ruskiii should be able to find it. Not sure why.

I just googled ''eso forum pvp ruskiii leaderboard'' and found this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674000/battlegrounds-misc-pvp-questions-community-q-a/p1
Seems to be what Minc was talking about.

Are you talking about ZOS saying they are resetting the MMR monthly to give people a chance on the leaderboards? (Even though leaderboards reset weekly, and Brian has been on record saying that MMR isn't tied to medal score). That was in the PVP Q&A which you linked to there.

I've seen some of Minc's posts about BG balancing, and although I disagree with him originally saying they should rework maps/spawn rules to make it easier to sit in spawn, his points about MMR resets were directly pulled from conversations we've had in guild amongst pretty much all the regular BG players on PCNA.

This may have been what the conversation was about.

I think you actually changed my mind on things. Where MMR reset is the most important overarching issue which then plays into team balance issues. Which then plays into game design issues like spawn zones as I had issues with originally. Which I dont think our views were opposing anyways, just difference in priority. Which I would now agree with you on MMR reset creating zos forced smurfing being the number one issue......Its the one reason why I hardly play BGs and the game as a whole anymore. Its too annoying to give a week of my life farming mmr every other month before I get put into fun matches.

@ruskiii and @MincMincMinc Looks like you both believe that stopping the MMR reset is the priority.

But is it really a good idea to ask for an invisible change that's impossible to measure?

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 167: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/t2z-pAfN8Zw

Chaosball, unavoidable victory. Soul gazing session with ball carriers.

Crazy King 1 and 2, unavoidable victories:

Relic 1 and 2, unavoidable victories:

Domination 1, unavoidable victory. Two of them left:

Domination 2, unavoidable defeat. We couldn't even reach the flags:

MincMincMinc

Haki_7 wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@MincMincMinc were you able to find the source of that nonsense about leaderboards?

I remember someone, probably Minc, saying that @ruskiii should be able to find it. Not sure why.

I just googled ''eso forum pvp ruskiii leaderboard'' and found this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/674000/battlegrounds-misc-pvp-questions-community-q-a/p1
Seems to be what Minc was talking about.

Are you talking about ZOS saying they are resetting the MMR monthly to give people a chance on the leaderboards? (Even though leaderboards reset weekly, and Brian has been on record saying that MMR isn't tied to medal score). That was in the PVP Q&A which you linked to there.

I've seen some of Minc's posts about BG balancing, and although I disagree with him originally saying they should rework maps/spawn rules to make it easier to sit in spawn, his points about MMR resets were directly pulled from conversations we've had in guild amongst pretty much all the regular BG players on PCNA.

This may have been what the conversation was about.

I think you actually changed my mind on things. Where MMR reset is the most important overarching issue which then plays into team balance issues. Which then plays into game design issues like spawn zones as I had issues with originally. Which I dont think our views were opposing anyways, just difference in priority. Which I would now agree with you on MMR reset creating zos forced smurfing being the number one issue......Its the one reason why I hardly play BGs and the game as a whole anymore. Its too annoying to give a week of my life farming mmr every other month before I get put into fun matches.

@ruskiii and @MincMincMinc Looks like you both believe that stopping the MMR reset is the priority.

But is it really a good idea to ask for an invisible change that's impossible to measure?

Its not necessarily impossible to measure. Nor does some issue being invisible mean we shouldn't fix it.

You can quantify it based on the number of matches of kills which are evenly balanced and dispersed vs the number of matches where in a 8v8 one player has 50kills and 0 deaths. Zos would be able to see this and get stats on it if they chose to. We could only obtain data based on multiple people keeping track of their scoreboards every game every day over the year. You'd be able to see the reset happen cyclically. Another trend you could follow is the consistency of the user IDs in each game. As MMR increases you would be paired with a common grouping of players.

Haki, for what you care about the thing is that if there is such an overarching issue, this corrupts your issues of 2sided vs 3sided BGs. For instance I see a major issue with spawn zones helping spawn campers, while aiding people who like to afk hide on the wall. We can collect and show data of people doing this all the time......but the problem is that all of these data instances are plagued with the overarching issue of MMR and Team balance being at play exacerbating the spawn issues. If MMR was more balanced, maybe enemy teams wouldnt be getting pushed all the way into spawn after the first fight and thus less spawncamp instances would ever occur.

Imagine if we were playing a racing game and we kept complaining that there was an issue where our car kept spinning out. Except the car also had an issue where the tire fell off..............maybe we should fix the issue of the tire falling off, then collect data on whether the car still spins out.

EDIT: To add, again like I said with ruski. Its not like our issues we are presenting are conflicting. Zos can fix MMR, or Team balance, or Maps, or spawn mechanics, or add 3 sided BGs. None of these prevent zos from working on the other. Sadly we probably wont see zos do another big BG push for a while now considering they did the BG rework push not too long ago. Its just that MMR imbalances trickle down and exacerbate the other issues so it should probably be addressed first so we can properly judge the other issues.

ruskiii

Haki_7 wrote: »

@ruskiii and @MincMincMinc Looks like you both believe that stopping the MMR reset is the priority.

But is it really a good idea to ask for an invisible change that's impossible to measure?

There is nothing invisible about that 1st of the month reset The quality of lobbies is noticeably worse and you see the majority of posts on the forums/reddit from people - generally new players - asking "why is there no MMR in BGs" or "why am I as a 160cp player being put against 2000cp+ players", being posted around the resets.

MMR should be more visible though for sure. Could be a simple number on the scoreboard like they showed us in the U44 PTS but removed before it went live, or it could be more stylised and give your nameplate a colour depending on MMR rank. Anything would be better than leaving people to guess.

MincMincMinc

ruskiii wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@ruskiii and @MincMincMinc Looks like you both believe that stopping the MMR reset is the priority.

But is it really a good idea to ask for an invisible change that's impossible to measure?

There is nothing invisible about that 1st of the month reset The quality of lobbies is noticeably worse and you see the majority of posts on the forums/reddit from people - generally new players - asking "why is there no MMR in BGs" or "why am I as a 160cp player being put against 2000cp+ players", being posted around the resets.

MMR should be more visible though for sure. Could be a simple number on the scoreboard like they showed us in the U44 PTS but removed before it went live, or it could be more stylised and give your nameplate a colour depending on MMR rank. Anything would be better than leaving people to guess.

Not to mention how visible MMR or ladder systems can literally drive player involvement. Look at games like LoL or Overwatch or counterstrike or rocketleague with their Bronze/silver/gold etc systems. These could easily add hundreds of hours of content to ESO with things like achievements, titles, outfits, dyes, rewards, mounts, etc.

xylena

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Not to mention how visible MMR or ladder systems can literally drive player involvement.

I've never seen casual players in ESO care about the BGs leaderboard, but I always see plenty of casual MtG: Arena players excited to finally make it to Plat or Diamond, not even the highest tiers. MMR resets force noobs to endure being repeatedly stomped by high level players, which is the opposite of accessibility.

Moonspawn

ruskiii wrote: »

The real question is why has it taken over 18 months to make such basic QoL changes...

That's because every change we ask of ZOS, no matter how small, will be met with brutal, insane and excruciating resistance the likes of which this world has never seen before.

Haki_7

Moonspawn wrote: »

What's this about 30 screenshots of ultra rare one sided 3-team games? @Haki_7 u holding out on me?

The single, renamed file I was sent containing the screenshots does not meet the necessary requirements.

Relic 1, 0% chance of winning:

Relic 2, 0% chance of losing:

Chaosball 1 and 2, 0% chance of losing. Pointless staring contest with ball carriers. Twice:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 168: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/JK3qNZzmyck

Deathmatch, 0% chance of losing. Spawncamping from start to finish:

Crazy King, 0% chance of losing. Trying to end the snoozefest while my team spawncamps some newcomers. The Domination below was the same. First and third critical flaws of 2-sided:

Domination, 0% chance of losing:

xylena

Haki_7 wrote: »

The single, renamed file I was sent containing the screenshots does not meet the necessary requirements.

It's ok I found the images that prove everything.

Balanced_2s.jpg

Unbalanced_3s.jpg

Moonspawn

Haki_7 wrote: »

@ruskiii and @MincMincMinc Looks like you both believe that stopping the MMR reset is the priority.

But is it really a good idea to ask for an invisible change that's impossible to measure?

If their idea works, maybe you would no longer be able to post countless lopsided scoreboards all day everyday? It's the only way I can think of to measure the impact of this change.

xylena

Moonspawn wrote: »

If their idea works, maybe you would no longer be able to post countless lopsided scoreboards all day everyday? It's the only way I can think of to measure the impact of this change.

But we have already proven that this idea won't work. Behold:

510-0-0

510-0-0

510-0-0

driosketch

Haki_7 wrote: »

Relic, 100% guaranteed to win. Throwing the towel after losing a single relic.

I can understand why. 8v8 relics are right under the spawn points, it's prone to stalemating. At least a draw gets you a reward box. 15 minutes for 7k AP, a couple soul gems and an equipment piece is probably not worth it after someone managed to grab one off you.

Orbital78

Mmr should not reset.

ruskiii

Haki_7 wrote: »

The single, renamed file I was sent containing the screenshots does not meet the necessary requirements.

What are these requirements that were never mentioned? Is the issue you think I lied about them being from October 2023, or that they are fake screenshots?

You should know me bettet than to do either of those things, but if you want, name any month between January 2022 and September 2024 and I'll send you whatever scoreboards I have from that month.

Haki_7

@ruskiii wrote:

Haki_7 wrote: »

The single, renamed file I was sent containing the screenshots does not meet the necessary requirements.

What are these requirements that were never mentioned?

but if you want, name any month between January 2022 and September 2024 and I'll send you whatever scoreboards I have from that month.

From what I gather each screenshot needs to be a separate file. Each one with its original name. Frankly I see no reason you should take on the task of parsing through them to find the ones that are lopsided. If you're willing, I'd rather you just send them all.

Deathmatch, no chance of losing. Spawncamping from start to finish:

Relic 1 & 2, no chance of losing. The fight ends the moment we get the first relic. Fourth flaw:

Domination, no chance of winning:

Crazy King, no chance of losing. Third flaw:

Chaosball 1 & 2, no chance of losing. Two soul gazing sessions with ball carriers back to back:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 169: Waiting 17 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/GD7St0QYnnU

xylena

Haki_7 wrote: »

If you're willing, I'd rather you just send them all.

That won't be necessary.

ruskiii

Haki_7 wrote: »

Frankly I see no reason you should take on the task of parsing through them to find the ones that are lopsided. If you're willing, I'd rather you just send them all.

I dont think you know quite what you are asking of me here, bud. My screenshots folder is 100gb+ and not organised into specific categories. I've screenshot like 90% of my scoreboards since I started playing BGs at the end of '21/start of '22, and I play 10-30 BGs a day, every day. Its a lot of scoreboards mixed with a lot of hate whispers and random shite I thought I'd need to remember later.

If you give me a specific month I can go thru it and send the BG scoreboards as a full screenshot. Would you prefer only lopsided games to prove they were prevalent, or all the games over a certain time period like last time to show what the games in general were like in that month?

Haki_7 wrote: »

From what I gather each screenshot needs to be a separate file. Each one with its original name.

So wait, who is setting these requirements if not yourself?

Haki_7

ruskiii wrote: »

I dont think you know quite what you are asking of me here, bud. My screenshots folder is 100gb+ and not organised into specific categories. I've screenshot like 90% of my scoreboards since I started playing BGs at the end of '21/start of '22, and I play 10-30 BGs a day, every day. Its a lot of scoreboards mixed with a lot of hate whispers and random shite I thought I'd need to remember later.

I'd like as many screenshots as you can give me. Already separated 500gb just to be safe.

ruskiii wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

From what I gather each screenshot needs to be a separate file. Each one with its original name.

So wait, who is setting these requirements if not yourself?

@Moonspawn has been asking for these scoreboards for more than a year.

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 170: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/xEJ7-dCNo2c

Crazy King, no chance of losing:

Chaosball 1 & 2, no chance of losing. Doesn't matter if we get 2 balls or all 3. It always ends up on the same staring contest with ball carriers:

Domination, no chance of losing:

Relic, no chance of losing. Almost half of enemy team left:

Deathmatch 1, no chance of losing:

Deathmatch 2, no chance of winning. Spanwcamping from beginning to end:

xylena

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Moonspawn has been asking for these scoreboards for more than a year.

You've been asking yourself for a year, and denying yourself for a year? To each their own...

MincMincMinc

IDK what the screenshots even mean, haki has been posting them for a year or two now without any claim or argument. Yes we all know there are lopsided BGs......annnnd?

What are you trying to say? Three sided is better than two sided? Spawns are ubalanced? MMR is not functional? Teams are unbalanced? How do these screenshots play into your main point? Without a claim or context this is why people think the screenshots are nonsensical rambling. Dont take this the wrong way, I genuinely have no idea what the screenshots even mean since no point has been made. Its a lot of evidence being repeatedly spammed without a cause for the evidence.

ruskiii

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Moonspawn has been asking for these scoreboards for more than a year.

It seems like the scoreboards for October '23 that I already sent would be sufficient, but they didn't show what this guy wanted to see, so now the scoreboards must be "original filename" and "separate images"...

I miss 4v4v4s too, man. There are not many people who played them more than me and you. That isn't a flex, we both know we spend a disproportionate amount of our time playing battlegrounds. That's reflected in these old scoreboards I've sent to you (anyone who has played BGs regularly on PCNA would recognise at least a few of these names):


this one might as well have been 4v4

When ZOS announced they were updating BGs, we thought we were getting a few new maps, maybe a new gamemode... reading the patch note that said 4v4v4 was being removed from the game was *** devastating, mate. I get it.

Battlegrounds have been severely mishandled. Everything from game-breaking bugs, to changes consistently not being shared in patch notes. What I hate more than anything though, is that someone I consider a friend, and respect as a good player with a distinct gameplay style, does not enjoy the game like he used to. So what are we trying to accomplish now?

Haki_7

MincMincMinc wrote: »

IDK what the screenshots even mean, haki has been posting them for a year or two now without any claim or argument. Yes we all know there are lopsided BGs......annnnd?

What are you trying to say? Three sided is better than two sided? Spawns are ubalanced? MMR is not functional? Teams are unbalanced? How do these screenshots play into your main point? Without a claim or context this is why people think the screenshots are nonsensical rambling. Dont take this the wrong way, I genuinely have no idea what the screenshots even mean since no point has been made. Its a lot of evidence being repeatedly spammed without a cause for the evidence.

The scoreboards I'm posting are simply the truth about the state of Battlegrounds. Nothing more. Nothing less.

ruskiii wrote: »

So what are we trying to accomplish now?

Right now? I'd prefer to finish talking about the MMR resets.

@MincMincMinc and @ruskiii If ZOS stopped the monthly MMR resets, would I still be able to post such consistently lopsided scoreboards every day?

Deathmatch, zero chance of winning. Spawncamping from start to finish:

Crazy King, zero chance of losing. Opponents were unable to reach the flags:

Chaosball, zero chance of losing. The usual soul gazing session with ball carriers:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 171: Waiting 17 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/5vhxduORGl0

Domination, zero chance of losing:

Relic 1, 2 & 3, zero chance of losing:

rockDokRock

Haki_7 wrote: »

@ruskiii wrote:

Haki_7 wrote: »

The single, renamed file I was sent containing the screenshots does not meet the necessary requirements.

What are these requirements that were never mentioned?

but if you want, name any month between January 2022 and September 2024 and I'll send you whatever scoreboards I have from that month.

From what I gather each screenshot needs to be a separate file. Each one with its original name. Frankly I see no reason you should take on the task of parsing through them to find the ones that are lopsided. If you're willing, I'd rather you just send them all.

Deathmatch, no chance of losing. Spawncamping from start to finish:

Relic 1 & 2, no chance of losing. The fight ends the moment we get the first relic. Fourth flaw:

Domination, no chance of winning:

Crazy King, no chance of losing. Third flaw:

Chaosball 1 & 2, no chance of losing. Two soul gazing sessions with ball carriers back to back:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 169: Waiting 17 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/GD7St0QYnnU

Just do what I do and don't play it. I won't touch it anymore as that has been my experience after a few games. Pointless.

karthrag_inak

Khajiit sees a lot of complaints about "the same two people posting blah blah blah" from the same two or three people. Is this a 2-team conversation or a 3-team conversation?

Major_Mangle

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit sees a lot of complaints about "the same two people posting blah blah blah" from the same two or three people. Is this a 2-team conversation or a 3-team conversation?

Most likely a 1 team conversation since the "2 people" is most likely just the same person with alt accounts to boost their own post.

xylena

karthrag_inak wrote: »

Khajiit sees a lot of complaints about "the same two people posting blah blah blah" from the same two or three people. Is this a 2-team conversation or a 3-team conversation?

Well now we have 3 teams...

Same two people posting blah blah

Complaints about that

Complaints about the complaints