What if we could freely Class change to any Class we have Mastered?

Gunthar · March 22

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

I would agree that we should be able to change classes, especially after the class rework is completed.

I play a sorceress currently, but most of the time, I just use the offensive arcanist tree on her because the offensive abilities of the sorcerer trees are so weak.

BXR_Lonestar · March 23

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

Then everyone would be a warden in PVP to abuse Charm, and in PVE, everyone except support would be an arcanist beamer...

Maitsukas · March 23

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

And have little to no build variety at all?

Bo0137 · March 23

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

At this point there’s no reason to not allow that. I for one would love to try something else, since I only play with one character

Erickson9610 · March 23

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Then everyone would be a warden in PVP to abuse Charm, and in PVE, everyone except support would be an arcanist beamer...

Maitsukas wrote: »

And have little to no build variety at all?

A Class Change Token wouldn't cause there to be a lack of build variety. It's pretty much just the same as having multiple characters already ready to go and swapping between them.

We don't see people using Race Change Tokens to optimize their builds between runs, so we shouldn't expect people to constantly use Class Change Tokens that way, either. People will make separate characters for each concrete setup, so they don't need to keep spending Crowns — this Class Change Token is really only there for those of us who regret our initial choice of Class, especially because of how much has and is currently changing about them.

Bguk · March 23

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

Erickson9610 wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Then everyone would be a warden in PVP to abuse Charm, and in PVE, everyone except support would be an arcanist beamer...

Maitsukas wrote: »

And have little to no build variety at all?

A Class Change Token wouldn't cause there to be a lack of build variety. It's pretty much just the same as having multiple characters already ready to go and swapping between them.

We don't see people using Race Change Tokens to optimize their builds between runs, so we shouldn't expect people to constantly use Class Change Tokens that way, either. People will make separate characters for each concrete setup, so they don't need to keep spending Crowns — this Class Change Token is really only there for those of us who regret our initial choice of Class, especially because of how much has and is currently changing about them.

Great explanation. This would not hurt anyone as players will still play what they want. There are those who will always chase the newest/strongest class. That should not prevent others from changing their class. Also, more choice is better, no?

BXR_Lonestar · March 24

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

Erickson9610 wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Then everyone would be a warden in PVP to abuse Charm, and in PVE, everyone except support would be an arcanist beamer...

Maitsukas wrote: »

And have little to no build variety at all?

A Class Change Token wouldn't cause there to be a lack of build variety. It's pretty much just the same as having multiple characters already ready to go and swapping between them.

We don't see people using Race Change Tokens to optimize their builds between runs, so we shouldn't expect people to constantly use Class Change Tokens that way, either. People will make separate characters for each concrete setup, so they don't need to keep spending Crowns — this Class Change Token is really only there for those of us who regret our initial choice of Class, especially because of how much has and is currently changing about them.

If it was a class change token that you have to pay for, that is one thing, but I was under the impression that the OP wanted to be able to change builds willy nilly free of cost and without consequence similar to how we are able to swap in class skill lines without any consideration of cost. The cost of a class change token would be a limiting factor which I think would make this more doable. However, without that cost, being able to swap between classes without consequence would just exacerbate the issues we have now.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 24

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Bguk · March 24

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

If you're with people who are telling you how to play, you're with the wrong people. I hate this sentiment when people throw around the gatekeeping word when it involves others "forcing" people into playing a certain way. It's a victim mentality. You're the only one gatekeeping yourself by not searching for those who care to play the game similar to how you like to play the game. Everyone can play the game how they like, whether people have requirements or not. Be your own solution as others will not be the solution for you.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · March 25

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

Bguk wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

If you're with people who are telling you how to play, you're with the wrong people. I hate this sentiment when people throw around the gatekeeping word when it involves others "forcing" people into playing a certain way. It's a victim mentality. You're the only one gatekeeping yourself by not searching for those who care to play the game similar to how you like to play the game. Everyone can play the game how they like, whether people have requirements or not. Be your own solution as others will not be the solution for you.

Just the opposite. I have never played with people like that. Ive left other guilds who became gatekeepers. Or even thought about it. I unfriend people who engage in this kind of behavior. It ruins the game. It ruins other people's Eso experience. Our guilds don't do that and we clear the same content. I have and will always be on the right side of history regarding this.

BretonMage · March 25

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

BXR_Lonestar · March 25

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

BretonMage · March 25

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

Well, yes, I'm quite attached to my one character.

Surely there are others who might want to change the class of a particular character for whom the revamped class no longer fits. Options are always good, and if it's priced in a way to discourage abuse, I don't see any drawbacks.

AScarlato · March 25

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

I also want to mostly play just a few characters.

But mostly my main, who sadly is a Necro and I have disliked paying him since they removed Magika Blastbones. I don't like disease/poison aesthetics, so for me that skill is just GONE and replaced by a more annoying skill. At this point I have subclassed and don't use any Necro skill lines at all.

It would be nice to just swap classes entirely if the balance team makes decisions that make huge changes to classes, like they will for every class in the next two years.

I don't want to make an alt because I like having all the quests done on my main, and not spread out over random alts.

NikoSquared · 11:36AM

AScarlato wrote: »

<snip>

I don't want to make an alt because I like having all the quests done on my main, and not spread out over random alts.

Yeah, that’s another thing, some players gain attachment to a single character that they play, whether it’s areas discovered, quests completed, perhaps even notoriety in modes like Battlegrounds or Cyrodiil where people recognize the name and cheer/cower depending on which side they’re on

It’s a lot more than just “grinding hard” or “leveling hard” or even “multi character inventory management is a nightmare”, more than mechanics, it’s memories and history poured into a character, perhaps years worth

Emeratis · 12:50PM

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

Yea, I have 15,000 hours played on my main over my second most played character. While I'd like to play my alts more and recent QOL changes have made me want to play my alts more, there is still a massive gap between my main who has all quests in the game done, alliance rank 50 skill points, all wayshrines every skill/skill line both morphs maxed, every recipe/motif/furnishing plan, etc and my alts. Also, my main has become a comfort character. She's been with me for a decade of my life. I still want to play my alts and enjoy them but the experience is not remotely comparable to my main, nor will it ever probably be due to even fixing logistical issues there is the emotional connection I have to my characters is also not equal.

I know many people who do indeed only play one character, even at higher levels of play. They will respec tank/healer/dps even pre-subclassing and adjust their character as much as they can to continue playing that one.

Make an alt isn't a solution for them, nor should it be used to shut down a huge qol thing that is becoming increasingly needed as class overhauls can sometimes change what people like about a class they've had for up to a decade.Two of us also talked about how even for rp/character driven players their vision of a character can change over time or original class might not fully fit due to how 7 classes in eso do not fully cover not just tes classes in prior games but general rpg archtypes people often want to play (ranger, elementalist, geomancer, etc).

BXR_Lonestar · 1:54PM

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

AScarlato wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

I also want to mostly play just a few characters.

But mostly my main, who sadly is a Necro and I have disliked paying him since they removed Magika Blastbones. I don't like disease/poison aesthetics, so for me that skill is just GONE and replaced by a more annoying skill. At this point I have subclassed and don't use any Necro skill lines at all.

It would be nice to just swap classes entirely if the balance team makes decisions that make huge changes to classes, like they will for every class in the next two years.

I don't want to make an alt because I like having all the quests done on my main, and not spread out over random alts.

I prefer to have all my quests done on one character, so that is what I do. I don't need a 100K DPS machine to get through story questlines. Just throw on Seargants + Macabre's Vintage + Oakensoul and you have enough firepower to complete any/all story content.

You can make alt characters that are more optimized for different roles.

BXR_Lonestar · 1:56PM

No, it’s more fun to play with new characters!

BretonMage wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

Well, yes, I'm quite attached to my one character.

Surely there are others who might want to change the class of a particular character for whom the revamped class no longer fits. Options are always good, and if it's priced in a way to discourage abuse, I don't see any drawbacks.

And that was my point. I said earlier, I'd be fine with a class change token for 3500 or 5000 crowns, but my impression from the OP was that you could just swap classes willy nilly using the subclassing machinery, which is an entirely different argument IMO.

BretonMage · 2:08PM

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

Well, yes, I'm quite attached to my one character.

Surely there are others who might want to change the class of a particular character for whom the revamped class no longer fits. Options are always good, and if it's priced in a way to discourage abuse, I don't see any drawbacks.

And that was my point. I said earlier, I'd be fine with a class change token for 3500 or 5000 crowns, but my impression from the OP was that you could just swap classes willy nilly using the subclassing machinery, which is an entirely different argument IMO.

Fair point. I had always assumed any class change would cost us crowns anyway (I mean, we can't even change our appearance for free).

peacenote · 4:39PM

At this point in the game, I'd support the concept of a class change, via the Crown store, at a cost, with a long cooldown (like monthly). I don't think it should be related to subclassing in any way.

Because of the way the poll is worded, I can't respond to it, because I don't think it should be about classes mastered, my answer isn't no or yes, but I'm not advocating for an additional criteria so much as a different one.

There is no limitation to which class you can select if you make a new character. Therefore, if class change was ever introduced, it doesn't make any sense that it would be restricted to what was learned in subclassing. It should be consistent with the logic of class selection. However, ZOS really needs to up their game regarding how rewarding it feels to play multiple characters. Possibly some of the pure class changes will help; I don't know. But since part of the idea behind class identity is that is should be core to your character, I don't think it should be part of optimizing a build to the point of adjusting per boss in a trial or swapping between different classes for PvE and PvP. I sympathize with people who only have one character and want to try another class or ended up with a very unfortunate meta for their favorite playstyle with their class. If ZOS was able to implement it, I think those people should be able to change class if desired.

However, I personally feel that it would be a lot less fun for those of us who like to play alts if class change became a frivolous choice, a tool for min/maxing, and/or if ESO became classless.

AScarlato · 4:50PM

Yes, this would be a good mechanic!

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

No. It will get abused. Or even worse exploited. Certain classes should not be insanely ahead of others and now its doubly bad because Subclassing has added the problem of this happening to skill lines as well. Once all the refreshes are done and the biggest offenders like Herald of the Tome and Assassination are broken up, some of this may go away. I don't believe they can blance the Subclassing mess, but here is to hoping.
People must not be severely penalized by what class or race their characters are. It detracts from the game. If you like High Elves AND Nightblades, you shouldn't suffer or be made to be forced into something you dont want to play. Telling someone they have to be a Necro Argonian when they dont like Necro or Argonian is not only gatekeeping, it's flat out exclusion for people who care about their characters.

Right, forcing people to remain in underperforming classes isn't fair. And therefore classes should be well-balanced. The class change token isn't about that though, it's about letting people play the way they want. Classes are being overhauled right now, who's to say you will still enjoy playing the class you chose 10 years ago?

Besides, as others have mentioned, it won't be abused if you have to pay for the token. And I think it's fair to expect players to pay for a class change token.

This is the reason why they give us so many character slots to begin with (8 in total) and why they have made it so easy to powerlevel alt characters by giving you access to your existing champion points and piling on XP scrolls on you. Seriously, what else do you want? Do you ONLY want to play one character?

I also want to mostly play just a few characters.

But mostly my main, who sadly is a Necro and I have disliked paying him since they removed Magika Blastbones. I don't like disease/poison aesthetics, so for me that skill is just GONE and replaced by a more annoying skill. At this point I have subclassed and don't use any Necro skill lines at all.

It would be nice to just swap classes entirely if the balance team makes decisions that make huge changes to classes, like they will for every class in the next two years.

I don't want to make an alt because I like having all the quests done on my main, and not spread out over random alts.

I prefer to have all my quests done on one character, so that is what I do. I don't need a 100K DPS machine to get through story questlines. Just throw on Seargants + Macabre's Vintage + Oakensoul and you have enough firepower to complete any/all story content.

You can make alt characters that are more optimized for different roles.

I don't care about having a 100K dps for overland quests either. But this still ignores my second point, which is them changing classes around in somewhat extreme ways, sometimes after many years. Like removing entire skills that change how certain classes feel to play - sometimes in ways that aren't as enjoyable anymore.

As others said and I can relate to, sometimes people's characters also shift for RP reasons.

Not everyone plays or cares about min/maxing efficiency, and being able to change could appeal to a wider audience than such players.