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Rapid gear decay
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glak✭✭✭
Gear degradation in ESO is a penalty incurred whenever you earn XP and also happens to a lesser extent when you die. I'll have to confirm whether this includes turning in quests. The degradation is much worse outside of closed dungeons.At least clarify it. Is it a death penalty or playing the game penalty?Edited by glak on May 16, 2014 9:14PM0 -
CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭Logging in and out also causes your gear to decay. Wow, Zenimax! You really thought of everything!
You know what's particularly sad and ironic? This system, "working as intended" facilitates the business of gold-selllers.
When players are scraping by on only 1-3 gold pieces on some of the enemies they kill, and maybe the occasional 100-300 gold reward for completing a quest, that is not enough to foot the ludicrous bill for the game's asinine rapid gear decay system. It's not a mystery as to why some players buy gold, to simply keep up with this crappy system and not be stuck at "0" gold pieces every time they leave town. Something needs to change on your end, Zenimax. So, what? Am I supposed to kill 1,359 enemies to repair my armor? Fighting these enemies with armor won't work, because my gear will be broken the moment I...well, do anything, really.
NOTE: I do not condone gold-selling at all. I'm pointing out the irony of the whole gold-selling situation plaguing ESO. Zenimax wants to combat it, yet implements terrible game mechanics that give reason for the gold sellers to be there. The legitimate players really have less and less of a fighting chance as of right now.Edited by CrimsonThomas on May 16, 2014 9:37PM8 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »I am curious what was tested in the closed beta. I don't understand why bugs like this or exploits from some vampire skills weren't fixed before release.
as already stated, most just enjoy the free ride. the other problem i have in more modern MMOs, is that given their increased complexity, they need to start at the end and move to the beginning as much as they go from the beginning to the end. they limit progression to the "beginning" stages as that is the most important (first) content to be experienced. however, when you lay system upon system (example: level grinding-> VR grinding/PVP grinding), you begin to experience, an astronomical amount of branched variations of player experiences. i am a slow goer, that focuses on the story of the quests, level along with my trade skills, and don't mind mind numbing grinds. i wont experience or come across the same bugs/issues as the one that blasts levels, has no desire to read/listen/pay attention to quest dialogue, waits until end game for trade skills, and hates the mind numbing grinds.
when they allowed the character to be kept through out the duration of testing, i was hoping that it would address that issue. perhaps too few made it to end game or just didnt care about the game period; could be both. testers can be just as bad as the devs, when it comes to quality assurance.
Yeah, this is mostly what I was going to post. It used to be beta testers were actual paid customer service employees, with the occasional stress test that just required live players to bounce around and do nothing.
In the last ten years, publishers have realized that people will test their game for free, and they don't need to spend money to beta testers. What they haven't seemed to figure out is, they get what they pay for.
Beta tests today more often involve players who view it as a free demo, as Ahstin's mentioned, and players that will quietly put their hat over any exploit they find, and save it for later. Which, probably actually happened with the vampire, ultimate cost discount, exploit.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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Gear degradation in ESO is a penalty incurred whenever you earn XP and also happens to a lesser extent when you die. I'll have to confirm whether this includes turning in quests. The degradation is much worse outside of closed dungeons.At least clarify it. Is it a death penalty or playing the game penalty?
Intermittently, it can occur on quest turn in. We had a couple reports of that in the first ten pages. No idea if it's still an issue, though.0 -
aipex8_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Gear degradation in ESO is a penalty incurred whenever you earn XP and also happens to a lesser extent when you die. I'll have to confirm whether this includes turning in quests. The degradation is much worse outside of closed dungeons.At least clarify it. Is it a death penalty or playing the game penalty?
I think it also depends if you are grouped or not. My biggest bill/fastest decay was the public group dungeon that I ran in a group of 7 people a few days ago.
It seems to be a 95% tax on killing mobs that drop loot. So if you are just grinding mobs you are essentially going to break even. If you are questing, you basically get the quest rewards and anything that you may have picked up off of mobs goes into the repair bill. Obviously, there are other ways to make money in game, but without a global (or even faction) auction house it is much more difficult and time consuming to sell things.
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being one that doesnt seem effected by this mass degradation, the only thing i can think of at this point, is perhaps it's tied to abilities. weak attack does the least damage, followed by strong attack, followed by single target abilites (including heals), followed by AOE (including heals). this only applies to mobs that render loot/experience, for combat only.
then traveling via the wayshrine may add damage that you may expect if you walk from point to point, so traveling via wayshrine isnt free. then quests render damage based on the experience earned relative to your level (higher level being least; on level or lower being most). killing beasts for hides renders damage regardless of level to keep in line with node gathering (ore, herbs, clothier), this keeps you from just walking up and down a water way for free hides and selling them in the store for a profit others "wouldnt" have a fair shake at (blacksmiths, clothiers, alchemists, provisioners).
combat may be figured out by changing out your skills for maximum diversity with the expectation to auto attack.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Grouping accelerates gear decay like crazy.
It's asinine. Zenimax touted this game around saying, "Group up with your friends on an epic journey in dungeons and quests in all of Tamriel! Blah blah blah marketing speak!"
...Only if you don't mind having broken armor all the time because you won't afford the repair fees for long...and your armor breaks itself, we left that little detail out, didn't we? Oh, and that'll be another $15.
Edited by CrimsonThomas on May 17, 2014 12:19AM2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Grouping accelerates gear decay like crazy.
It doesn't seem to be grouping per say, otherwise we wouldn't have the mixed decay rates in groups. Though, it might be that proximity to other players sets your decay rate.1 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Grouping accelerates gear decay like crazy.
It doesn't seem to be grouping per say, otherwise we wouldn't have the mixed decay rates in groups. Though, it might be that proximity to other players sets your decay rate.
I've recorded it, and decay definitively is increased by proxy. I got decay just by being near someone getting hit. It is clear as daylight that the way they have the decay system must be changed.
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The key to not incurring a repair bill is not getting hit. Use stuns/cc and block. I fight all up in mobs face and at most my repairs are 900 after like an hour, y'all are crazy. If you aren't using up all your resources(magicka and stamina) during the fight then you're doing it wrong, seriously.5
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bromiscuous wrote: »The key to not incurring a repair bill is not getting hit. Use stuns/cc and block. I fight all up in mobs face and at most my repairs are 900 after like an hour, y'all are crazy. If you aren't using up all your resources(magicka and stamina) during the fight then you're doing it wrong, seriously.
Nope.
If you'd actually read this thread you'd know it doesn't matter how well you play or how much damage you soak up or block - only thing that matters is how many mobs you kill within level range that are capable of dropping items. You can dance around mobs all day long and never let them touch you - but as soon as you kill them your gear decay meter ticks up. You could sit on a rock like a princess while someone in your party does all the killing for you - BAM! you get gear decay.
If you're not taking much gear decay you're probably only killing mobs 5+ levels under your own level
In short, gear decay happens when you kill mobs within level range (ones that are able to drop items for you). This is what causes gear decay in combat.Edited by babylon on May 17, 2014 2:46AM3 -
@ZOS. just make it simple -10% off the total durability of each item per death like every other mmo2
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »Grouping accelerates gear decay like crazy.
It doesn't seem to be grouping per say, otherwise we wouldn't have the mixed decay rates in groups. Though, it might be that proximity to other players sets your decay rate.
I've recorded it, and decay definitively is increased by proxy. I got decay just by being near someone getting hit. It is clear as daylight that the way they have the decay system must be changed.
Technically, probably their kills, based on what other players have reported. Either that or we receive decay from death, from killing enemies, and from other players in our vicinity taking damage, which... I'd say, "boggles my mind," but with the behavior we've seen, I'm not about to completely rule out.1 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭For all the people that keep posting decay only happens under xp earning, no.
I get gear decay while being at bank, while crafting, or just while standing in a town. It even happens overnight. This has been witnessed by myself as Ive started repairing all the gear for testing purposes.
Today I was in one of the shadowfen towns. Like 5-10 minutes ago I tried to solo a world boss (they were two to be exact, fighting eachother) and got killed. Back to town I repaired my gear and while deconstructing/researching/banking (and ofcourse, having my gear damaged after the full repair) got the achievement for the twin giants boss kill.
One last thing, Ive never grouped in this game except for the 3 dungeons of the EP zones Ive been at (so, three times). Never ever been in Cyrodill yet.
Im starting to think Im somewhat bugged and my "influence area" is just out of control, making my gear to decay because of people killing stuff out of the city. This, of course, would not explain the overnight decay (or login decay, how would I know).1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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Those are all the bugged aspects of this gear decay.For all the people that keep posting decay only happens under xp earning, no.
I get gear decay while being at bank, while crafting, or just while standing in a town. It even happens overnight. This has been witnessed by myself as Ive started repairing all the gear for testing purposes.
Today I was in one of the shadowfen towns. Like 5-10 minutes ago I tried to solo a world boss (they were two to be exact, fighting eachother) and got killed. Back to town I repaired my gear and while deconstructing/researching/banking (and ofcourse, having my gear damaged after the full repair) got the achievement for the twin giants boss kill.
One last thing, Ive never grouped in this game except for the 3 dungeons of the EP zones Ive been at (so, three times). Never ever been in Cyrodill yet.
Im starting to think Im somewhat bugged and my "influence area" is just out of control, making my gear to decay because of people killing stuff out of the city. This, of course, would not explain the overnight decay (or login decay, how would I know).
There are three issues being raised in this thread -
1) Gear decay is sometimes bugged, and occurs outside combat.
2) Gear decay is too expensive even when it's working correctly.
3) Gear decay happens too quickly during combat, and this might be due to surrounding players who aren't even in your party as well as those you're grouped with.
Edited by babylon on May 17, 2014 4:10AM3 -
i have done everything under the sun, to try and produce what you guys (and my wife) are talking about. i have fought with only aoe's, single target abilities, dual wield, sword and board, i rotated through public dungeons killing bosses, grouped in the world, trade skills in mass, grouped and quested, solo quested, the list is endless. nothing acted as this forum has described, mine works fine. i dont know how this varies from player to player, but this isnt working as intended and i dont care who says otherwise. the only reason i didnt try a private instance is the ability delay (its a killer).Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on May 17, 2014 8:14AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19182 -
Darzil✭✭✭To be fair to Zenimax about the "working as intended" comment, it was early in the thread and they did mention grouping issues which could include the being around players piece, and there was sparse mention of the weird buggy edge cases that had turned up by that stage.
To be fair to the players, they really should review the rest of this largely measured and useful thread! A LOT of new relevant and disturbing evidence has been posted since.2 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭To be fair to Zenimax about the "working as intended" comment, it was early in the thread and they did mention grouping issues which could include the being around players piece, and there was sparse mention of the weird buggy edge cases that had turned up by that stage.
To be fair to the players, they really should review the rest of this largely measured and useful thread! A LOT of new relevant and disturbing evidence has been posted since.
They just pointed to the obvious and tried to make all of the people having issues in this thread to stfu. Talking about gear decay related to xp/fighting and ignoring the reports of people having issues while in the city or logged off.. thats what I call "ignoring" your customers feedback.
They made the same in the "armor aesthetics" post. Came in, threw their "working as intended" just so they had to swallow a "yeah, you were right, all of the veteran armors lack the look they should have". So, your testing prior to the "working as intended" statement was..?
Id like to know if having decay by standing in the bank or getting boss achieves from inside the town after having hitted the boss a few times 10mins before is also working as intended.
They didnt even state they were going to look into it, so my hopes for it to be fixed are zero, if they keep in the mood of denial.1 -
Bolo_Bob✭✭✭i havent read the whole thread, incase this has been mentioned already.
i noticed that if i swap out broken gear and leave it in my inventory, then when i get back to town and go to get repairs that it actually includes those broken items in my inventory into my total repair bill.
so that maybe part of why we are having such high repair bills, because its trying to repair everything and not just what we are wearing/equipped.
i might be wrong tho, but it does show stuff not wearing/equipped in the manual repair window and i didnt fully pay attention after i went and deconstructed broken stuff.
i think i even just avoided repairs after i was done also, because what i was wearing was just random throw together stuff just so i wouldnt die at the time.
i was kinda busy that day in and out of the game for real life too.
so it might be worth looking into and im just now remembering it this morning during my coffee.
anyway hope im helping with the mystery.1 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9lep_5Ks-I&feature=youtu.be
Rapid gear decay in progress. I sped it up a little but the entire video is about 20 minutes of gameplay.Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on May 17, 2014 1:53PM1 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭it seems youtube cut off a few minutes of my video ... sigh, I will have to re-upload it.Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on May 17, 2014 2:05PM0 -
Arwyn✭✭✭Ok heres wierd for you.
Just hit Kenathis Roost (sp), quested for about 30 minutes, lots and lots of kills. 6% armour loss only. (101g) (Veteran zone btw)
Very few other people about, all kills have been solo.
Cant explain that one!Edited by Arwyn on May 17, 2014 4:47PM1 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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I've had a situation when a player left us in a crucial moment in group dungeon battle - "Sorry, don't wanna spend another 1k gold for repairs".CrimsonThomas wrote: »It's asinine. Zenimax touted this game around saying, "Group up with your friends on an epic journey in dungeons and quests in all of Tamriel! Blah blah blah marketing speak!"
So, how about multiplying x5-10 gold from mobs? It would still take too much time to "farm" insane amounts of it, but will do the job for repairs/minor buys.
Have you ever been so poor you could barely buy any items in the shops? No? Well, welcome to ESO.Edited by F7sus4 on May 17, 2014 8:13PM1 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭Increasing gold drops from group dungeons would also be a great incentive for getting people into doing group dungeons.1 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
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That way group dungeons would rapidly become the easiest way to get gold and everyone would exploit it by doing dungeon-runs as often as possible.Blackwolfe5 wrote: »Increasing gold drops from group dungeons would also be a great incentive for getting people into doing group dungeons.
It's all about the balance. The idea is good, as long as gold-drops frequency is increased in other places as well (and/or the amounts of gold).1 -
Blackwolfe5✭✭✭That's true. I was going to write "double gold drops in overall" but then I thought "what about the bots"
Gonna have to rethink that, can't always think about what would benefit bots. Doubling gold drops in the world would help, as well as decreasing repair cost (by 50% at least) and decreasing the rate that gear deteriorates. (all this coupled with fixing the cases of rapid decay). On top of that, allowing crafters to repair gear.Edited by Blackwolfe5 on May 17, 2014 10:10PM0
