They need to make it taller though, otherwise they're actively shrinking the players even more when nords/high elves already shrink when they transform.

The skyrim model is also much better than this new model, but maybe that's just me.

I prefer my werewolves to have more fur and less skin. If they mess this up im gonna be upset. I have over 100 werewolves... just give us some variations on skins if your going to go this route.

Radiate77 wrote: »

Did they show any updated skills yet??

They discussed it some. Piercing howl is becoming a bite attack with bleed, the tanking vs DPS aspect is being moved to the morphs of the werewolf form itself (pack leader or berserker), feral pounce/carnage is going to have better functionality (can just cast carnage if you're in melee range) and the cost to transform is dropping to 100 ult, with some adjustments to how you remain in form, with the goal of making it easier to uphold both in combat and with some vague mentions of holding it up longer while in people's houses for RP purposes.

I like the new model. Makes you look like a mangy, rabid animal as a werewolf is supposed to be. You're not somebody's pet dog that should be well groomed. You're a cursed human.

I honestly don't like what I see, that looks like a dog with scabies, or a hyena. It is a WIP though, so I'm still hopeful for it.

I was hoping they'd look back to the Greymoor Cinematic models and do something similar, that version was just perfect:

Ugly in a bad way. I feel sorry for them.

Morvan wrote: »

I honestly don't like what I see, that looks like a dog with scabies, or a hyena. It is a WIP though, so I'm still hopeful for it.

I was hoping they'd look back to the Greymoor Cinematic models and do something similar, that version was just perfect:

This would have been incredible, still has the humanoid aspects and skin showing but didn't completely destroy anything wolf related like the new model does.

Personally, I always found the Greymoor trailer Werewolves to look almost cat like(it's smth about their face and the ears) and just too well groomed.

And I've never really been a fan of the Werebears in Skyrim, they kinda just looked like angry teddy bears rather than accursed shapeshifters.

Lekjih wrote: »

Not cursed. Blessed by Hircine. This isn't a Ukrainian folk story about undead men cursed to resemble wolves or English stories about men turning into actual wolf wolves. Hircine blesses us to be better hunters. I would like a fluffier option.

Technically both. Lycanthopy has multiple sources and strains in tes lore and can be more a curse or more a blessing depending on such, but it's never just one, whether it's a Curse or Blessing is more to the individuals perception. Even Hircine bestows Lycanthropy as both punishment and boon when he deems either is deserved. The Reachfolk, arguably the most accepting society of Werewolves, see them as their cursed protectors and understand that Hircine doesn't just "gift" you anything; he gives you pain to burden so that you may inflict it on your enemies. I would like them not completely fluffy but not entirely bold; 50/50 is nice.

And as regards to the original post, I too like the "bald spots" but I think they should take more pages from Skyrims book on where Fur should and shouldn't be, Tes 5 got it right and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Syldras wrote: »

Not sure why, but it reminds me more of a rat.

I’m getting more hyena than wolf.

it is a massive improvement. both in model and textures. Hopefully werewolf is much less annoying to use because that's the main reason I don't use werewolf anymore.

The proportions and details are really good, the facial structure is also good and a vast improvement. I do feel like the hairline needs to be brought down a tad, it kinda looks like he has a mullet. Maybe a tad bit more accentuation on the fur. But other than for a first pass it looks really good.

Just gonna say it since it keeps getting brought up, wanting more fur on the werewolves =/= wanting them to look more furry and less monstrous. I am extremely interested in them looking monstrous and not like a fursona or mascot. The only thing I am saying is that I feel more fur would make them look less like they were cursed by Peryite or given a horrible half shave. When you see wild animals with less fur, they often look mangy, sick, or old. That's what the lack of fur is giving me, not "wow this monster really has a human core to it and that's unsettling." There are ways to disagree without insisting people are saying things they are not saying. Personally, I'd rather see a thick, healthy coat of fur that is rugged and messy due to wandering through the underbrush nature. They might not even have to dramatically tweak it, but as it is it's def not coming across as they intend for a lot of people.

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

There is a huge variety of humans in the ESO world, I would hope there will be a huge variety of werewolves to choose from as a player as each player has a preference. I am thinking of skins where one can choose the bare skin type or the full fur type along with color choices.

I can agree with this. I did mention in the other thread about if people are complaining about the ears a lot maybe they could similar to the vampire eye problem look into ears looking slightly different based on race. Also using dynamic height, which used to exist for some things for the player character in game so I know they have the functionality there for it in some capacity to alleviate some of the height complaints (screenshot attached for what I mean, my friend and I on launch with him on a max height nord and me on a min height bosmer with out mounts having size variation based on our height sliders).

I know why they got rid of it for mounts and I'm kinda grateful for that some but it still could be used to scale werewolves and other things I think and have people be more happy with their werewolf's size maybe. Again, not sure technical limitations on this suggestion.

huskandhunger wrote: »

Good facial structure

I don't really agree tbh, currently they look way too friendly and the features look too long, I think the brow and muzzle needs to be pulled in and up a bit more and general other tweaks like brow angle to really sell it as right now the Skyrim one looks a lot better in the head department; I made this quick mock up for another thread conversation to show what I mean with the muzzle & brow depth:

Emeratis wrote: »

Just gonna say it since it keeps getting brought up, wanting more fur on the werewolves =/= wanting them to look more furry and less monstrous. I am extremely interested in them looking monstrous and not like a fursona or mascot. The only thing I am saying is that I feel more fur would make them look less like they were cursed by Peryite or given a horrible half shave. When you see wild animals with less fur, they often look mangy, sick, or old. That's what the lack of fur is giving me, not "wow this monster really has a human core to it and that's unsettling." There are ways to disagree without insisting people are saying things they are not saying.

I don't think anyone's trying to say your saying things you aren't, and I atleast do understand where you're coming from with it being a sign of disease like mange in real world animals, but I also understand and agree with the hesitation for giving them too much fur; fur dense Werewolves are rarly ever pulled off well (excluding super stylised ones as that plays by different rules) with the only two I can think of being the American Werewolf in London and the grey fur Werewolf from the beginning of the Van Helsing movie (I know Van Helsings black fur is liked too but I've always thought it looked way too much like a fur suit)

More often than not, they just don't look good, and it does have a tendency to start looking like a fur suit. Additionally, especially in games which cover models in hair/fur cards to give them a full body of fur, it just doesn't look good. And that's not me putting words in your mouth, that's just from my experience as someone with a long time special interest in Werewolves, and it's also not me saying that it isn't possible to make good looking cursed werewolves with a fuller body of fur but it isn't easy and doesn't translate to game all that well from my own experience.

And I do agree with you that it does feel more like Mange than "showing the human at it's core", but I'd disagree that it isn't unsettling as tbh seeing animals with Mange is often a far more monsterous looking than how they looked before, and I'd actually like to point out that Lycanthropy in tes lore and in ESO is specifically an accursed disease known as Sanies Lupinous (And also mentioned as Canis Hysteria).

So if they look diseased, it's because they are diseased and that's faithful to the lore, and honestly imo things that look sickly but can accomplish feats of immense strength is far more uncanny than something that looks well and capable of accomplishing the same.

Again though, as I've mentioned prior I am in agreement that currently the fur is a bit too sparse, and it could definitely use more in the shoulder/neck area and moved about on the head; but I don't think it should have anymore than the Skyrim model had and I'd actually argue for an amount between the Skyrim and current WIP model. (Again I'm not saying your advocating for more than the Skyrim model amount of fur, I'm just giving reference)

And on the Ears topic in general, I do think the current ones look a lil off, I'd like to see them look more like the Skyrim ones.

luckiestlycan wrote: »

Emeratis wrote: »

Just gonna say it since it keeps getting brought up, wanting more fur on the werewolves =/= wanting them to look more furry and less monstrous. I am extremely interested in them looking monstrous and not like a fursona or mascot. The only thing I am saying is that I feel more fur would make them look less like they were cursed by Peryite or given a horrible half shave. When you see wild animals with less fur, they often look mangy, sick, or old. That's what the lack of fur is giving me, not "wow this monster really has a human core to it and that's unsettling." There are ways to disagree without insisting people are saying things they are not saying.

I don't think anyone's trying to say your saying things you aren't, and I atleast do understand where you're coming from with it being a sign of disease like mange in real world animals, but I also understand and agree with the hesitation for giving them too much fur; fur dense Werewolves are rarly ever pulled off well (excluding super stylised ones as that plays by different rules) with the only two I can think of being the American Werewolf in London and the grey fur Werewolf from the beginning of the Van Helsing movie (I know Van Helsings black fur is liked too but I've always thought it looked way too much like a fur suit)

More often than not, they just don't look good, and it does have a tendency to start looking like a fur suit. Additionally, especially in games which cover models in hair/fur cards to give them a full body of fur, it just doesn't look good. And that's not me putting words in your mouth, that's just from my experience as someone with a long time special interest in Werewolves, and it's also not me saying that it isn't possible to make good looking cursed werewolves with a fuller body of fur but it isn't easy and doesn't translate to game all that well from my own experience.

And I do agree with you that it does feel more like Mange than "showing the human at it's core", but I'd disagree that it isn't unsettling as tbh seeing animals with Mange is often a far more monsterous looking than how they looked before, and I'd actually like to point out that Lycanthropy in tes lore and in ESO is specifically an accursed disease known as Sanies Lupinous (And also mentioned as Canis Hysteria).

So if they look diseased, it's because they are diseased and that's faithful to the lore, and honestly imo things that look sickly but can accomplish feats of immense strength is far more uncanny than something that looks well and capable of accomplishing the same.

Again though, as I've mentioned prior I am in agreement that currently the fur is a bit too sparse, and it could definitely use more in the shoulder/neck area and moved about on the head; but I don't think it should have anymore than the Skyrim model had and I'd actually argue for an amount between the Skyrim and current WIP model. (Again I'm not saying your advocating for more than the Skyrim model amount of fur, I'm just giving reference)

And on the Ears topic in general, I do think the current ones look a lil off, I'd like to see them look more like the Skyrim ones.

You're being polite and respectful, some other posters are not or are making binary assumptions like "you either want a fluffy fursona or a cool hairless monster no in between." Normally I'm more patient about that sort of thing but it does sometimes get tired that some people just assume things can only be one of two ways without nuance. I also don't want the devs to read this and assume incorrectly what people want or if it's a this or that kinda situation because I think the model will look better with minor adjustments and not major changes.

I do agree that it's difficult to get a good balance between fur and and monstrous in a lot of mainstream werewolf media but they could also lean on cryptids and other things. I already lament that most of eso/base game did things like associate bosmer changelings and the wild hunt with more literal animals and less eldritch horror with animalistic leans which they were supposed to be in lore (yes, I know some of this was base game engine/model constraints). The team has come up with very cool things before and I do think they could explore avenues that others find more pleasing that do not make it look cartoony but I get it's a risk. I also do wonder if as some have mentioned a minor touch of fur will improve the look and feel of it.

As for the disease point, I suppose it depends on how you feel about disease/supernatural diseases. Wild animals who look mangy are often also afflicted with comorbid diseases such as wasting disease or are afflicted by parasites that weaken them such as fleas or ticks or mites. That's why to me personally I feel it doesn't give a cursed/diseased in a powerful way that contributes to the fantasy, it gives me a view of a sick animal that is pitiable. For me personally, I cannot divorce my knowledge of wildlife from the current model to the point that if is shipped as is I probably would not play with my werewolf. I may only have one werewolf character rp wise, but I have for a very long time wished werewolf was better so I could do more with that part of his story and character while interacting with the world. I am being vocal because Greymoor's vampire rework ruined a lot of vampire for me to the point I play my four vampires way less after that (and when I do they are far less enjoyable to play) and I don't want to see that happen again here.

But yea, my more tempered approach that I'd like to see at least on the next model reveal is have the fur a little bit more tempered out and maybe recolor some of the bits so they look less fleshy. I do after some rest and looking at the model again think if the model's arms/torso were less a fleshy brown it might also help with the mangy look. Art stuff is often better with multiple mockups/minor tweaks in regards to concept art and modelwork anyway.

Morvan wrote: »

I honestly don't like what I see, that looks like a dog with scabies, or a hyena. It is a WIP though, so I'm still hopeful for it.

I was hoping they'd look back to the Greymoor Cinematic models and do something similar, that version was just perfect:

yeah i dont like the new WIP model at all, the cinematic ww looks good as.